They are selling hero points in the gem store now

[TheNurgle.4825]

So let us look about reality from new account perspective.

1. I can buy max lvl booster – same as in other MMOs – lvling in GW2 can take 20 to 40 hours for dedicated players, probably double for casual player taking it slowly
2. I can buy hero points to unlock 2 elite specs – some other MMOs have this – you can play game and get all needed hero points in 1 hour
3. I can exchange gems for gold and buy items from TP – kind of common in other MMOs – here is unique charm of GW2 there is no gear treadmill, also you can get full exotic gear for 5-10 gold in WvW stat selectable so anything you want or ascended items, which are 10% better and you can get them through PvP or WvW or PvE, keep in mind that legendary items have exactly same stats as ascended items

In the end you can get from zero to hero without any ingame purchase in 100 hours as casual player. I did not include Wizard's vault rewards and that make life even more easier for new player.

As person who play MMOs for over 20 years I am really disappointed how ppl don't even know what P2W means. P2W mean that you can not progress further in reasonable time without paying money and ppl which pay have more power than you. Reasonable time for me is "I pay nothing and play game for 100 hours and I am on same lvl as biggest whale in game".

GW2 can not be P2W by game design of the game. Last ascended items were introduced in 2013 so from 2013 there was no gear treadmill so person which got ascended items in 2013 and stopped playing in 2013 can get back to game today and he is at same lvl as rest of population which played game nonstop in last 10 years.

Please stop looking for P2W in something where it is not and focus on real issues like QoL thread and some other posts with ideas to actually improve gameplay like fishing, rifts, instanced content and so on. Also from several last updates we can see that we are getting updates which improve gameplay and bugfixes for old content.

[felincyriac.5981]

did SoTO underperform? This is a new low for anet

[Whelium.4706]

Doesn't matter it's not like it's pay to win. Doesn't affect PVP or WVW so I don't get why people are worried about what other people have or how they got it. At the end of the day it can only benefit you and your party or raid. SMH 

[KindredPhoenyx.8976]

The only time I see this being beneficial is HoT HPS especially when I'm generally in the deader timezones of the playerbase and its difficult to find more than 2 folk to do em.
Otherwise just... why? I'm concerned this will lead to a full paid skip of map completion (which, aighty I get its tedious at times) and people paying $100 (or more) for it (I'll be honest I don't see it being any less than 3.5k because this is NCSoft we're talking about) or selling it piece meal that the accumulation of $ by the time someone is done is going to be ridiculous anyway.

Waypoints were one thing and I didn't really bat an eyelash at it then but I'm starting to get some red flags I don't like.

Given, I'll just do the simple thing an unhappy consumer does: not buy it. More power to those unfazed and buy it anyway, good for you. I won't pretend gaming isn't a business industry these days, because it absolutely is, however the concerns (no matter how trivial they seem to the pro-monetisation folk) of those not wanting this, are valid. 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by KindredPhoenyx.8976

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

As much as I personally think its whack they added HP to Gem Store, I honestly don't see how it's pay2win.

Unless somehow buying HP in gem store can make me solo every content in this game compared to someone who got it via usual game method, I see no real link between HP in gem store and pay2win

 

[Malus.2184]

14 hours ago, Assolador.3598 said:

not really, u could get banned

You can convert gold to gems and then use those gems to buy scrolls. Your argument only makes technical sense rather than contextual sense by omitting context, this makes it technically correct and a lie by omission. A lie by omission is still a lie even though it requires the one it was told to really want to believe it.

[Danikat.8537]

I'm still not sure how I feel about this. I can definitely see there being demand for it because I'm very close to being the target audience. I've got 4 characters who were created specifically to play different elite specs (I don't role-play in groups, but I do have personalities and backstories for my characters which mean some specs I want to play are totally wrong for them) plus a warrior I created because I didn't have a warrior yet who I never really played until Bladesworn came along. All of them were boosted to level 80 (using boosts from expansions or tomes) and then for 3 of them I used WvW testimonies to get enough hero points to unlock the elite spec. The other 2 rushed around PoF maps getting points.

If this item had existed at the time and I didn't play WvW (or didn't have enough testimonies) I'd probably be very tempted to buy it, because playing those characters without the elite spec felt pointless; aside from the warrior I'd already played the same profession through to level 80 and because I'd created the character specifically for the elite spec their personality was built around it. (For example my harbinger is an Iron Legion charr - she learned necromancy to understand the Ascalonian ghosts to find new ways to defeat them, but she's Iron Legion, she does gadgets, not rituals. The character concept was stuck for ages because until harbinger came along she'd have been an engineer and too similar to my existing engineer.)

But on the other hand even using testimonies feels a bit like cheating to me, because while I know I earned those points the character didn't. So I suspect I'd choose to get the points from the maps, but that requires being willing to skip them ahead and then either ignore that it happened or find a way to justify that in their story. Using the gem store item means I didn't even earn the points (except in the abstract sense that I earned whatever money or gold I use to get the gems) so it feels even more like cheating and I'm not sure how I feel about Anet enabling that.

My other concern is that it's going to make the existing problem with the level 80 boost worse: new players will assume once they've boosted a character to 80 and unlocked an elite spec so they can copy a build off a website that means they're ready for some of the most difficult areas of the game but because this isn't a game where your stats can carry you that's usually not true. Unless you know how to play your character effectively (and not just relying on memorising a fixed rotation to mash out no matter what's happening) you're going to struggle, then they get annoyed that even following a guide and doing all the things they were told to do the game is 'impossible', scream about it being 'rigged' or bugged and rage quit, when those few hours of completing hero challenges might have at least given them some idea of what's actually involved in combat - reacting to things like attacks that need to be dodged and using CC when a breakbar is open instead of just trying to cycle through skills in a fixed order or as soon as they come off recharge and expecting their "elite" build to carry them.

I don't think either of those concerns make it game breaking (and definitely not pay-to-win) but do make it a potential problem.

[zealex.9410]

Remove this item from the gemstore, its predatory (especially to new players) and its just a kitten addition that just makes the game look worse.

[xersues.7189]

Personally I don't care that they added this. 

Going to present a hot take from ANET perspective and the audience that might care to buy this:

• ANET likely needs to monetize the game more. There's been more skins, Waypoint unlocks, lounges, and permanent items added to the store than ever. We don't know what is at stake if GW2 doesn't meet revenue goals.
   
• This is just convenience at most. If I made a level 80 boosted, and wanted to then spend my gems on unlocking an elite class immediately, I now can. Whether that was gems with gold or swiped - My pay to boost level 80 character with paid max skill points is completely identical to anyone else's level 80 with max skill points.

Unfortunately it is a noob trap. It is a bottom of the list priority to get and completely unnecessary to ever buy for sure - but this isn't a slippery slope that already hasn't been passed for years now: Waypoints, Lounges, Permanent usage QoL items, Storage space.

If you DON'T like it - DO NOT BUY IT. Only meaningful feedback you can give on monetization is to not take part in it, then companies will go for something else. This one unlock is not the hill to die on.

Edited November 29, 2023 by xersues.7189

[Freya.9075]

The concern about a “noob trap” could be fixed if they added “not recommended for new players” on the item. But I doubt that will happen. For veterans it can be a good QoL item if you are tired of hp trains. 

[Ezraholic.7349]

Tldr: IMO - not worth buying, but I don't see a problem with someone else buying it, seeing items already available and it being only QoL, not P2W. It does not give advantage.

Full: Aut as someone who has like 60 characters and had to do HPs to unlock professions for them, I don't see any problem with someone buying that item with gems. It's not a hardcore content, even less so in group. And it's not even that long. That gives the buyer 0 advantage over me, who had put too much time into playing or have been here long enough just to level up my characters with birthday scrolls. Just because I bought the game earlier than them and created characters. It's not like I put any effort into it, but now I can skip 20/30/40/50/60 character levels with just a click.

Going back to HP unlock item... Why is it fine it's there?

- Not everyone plays the game to just go and unlock HPs again over and over. Some might enjoy it but not everyone has to. Maybe they are only interested in some niche content and HPs are more of an obstacle than pleasure?

- Not everyone has time to spend on this. Maybe they come home after a long and tiring day at work and want to chill with what they like, before they have to do their chores, go to sleep and go to work again? And it so happens that working brings them money they can and want to spend on the game for a QoL item. And also support the game with that.  And I want the game to stay financially supported.

As per the case of newbies... When you have this much gold (seeing increasing gem price) to just go and buy HPs, you're probably not a complete newbie and know how easy it is to get hero points, so it's really only your choice. If you as a newbie get gems for money, it's like with everything you buy, online or not. If you don't do any research before getting that walkman, don't be surprised it can't play CDs. Check Google/wiki, ask other players. It's that simple.

[Dopamine.6324]

1 hour ago, Incurve Giidis.7829 said:

that was mountgate

i need some real qol like gifts of battle on the gemstore

ppl get to skip a 1hour hp train but im still forced to afk 30 hours of a dogshit abandoned gamemode

30h for gift of battle 🤣 

[Derktarlms.6213]

I would like to know if in the future it is acceptable to put all the expansion content in the store to understand the future of the store, I mean where it forces you to explore to obtain either a new skill or function and now it is for gems, but for me it is throwing dirt on the work of extending the life of the game and the history that they are so proud of.

[Danikat.8537]

2 hours ago, xersues.7189 said:

• ANET likely needs to monetize the game more. There's been more skins, Waypoint unlocks, lounges, and permanent items added to the store than ever. We don't know what is at stake if GW2 doesn't meet revenue goals.

I don't think there's more new ones being added. It's just that they also bring back the old ones at the same time, so there's more in total available at once. For example we haven't had a new lounge pass since Thousand Seas Pavillion was added in 2022 and I think the last one before that was Armistice Bastion in 2019. 

It just looks like a lot when they put them all in the store together, but they probably do that to avoid those accusations of "noob traps". If they just sold 1 lounge pass at a time you'd get players complaining that it will trick new players into buying whichever one is available instead of waiting for the 'best' one. Not that everyone will agree on which one is best, but there's at least 3 or 4 which are more popular. (Also arguably they're all noob traps because the Heart of the Mists and Obsidian Sanctum do many of the same things (most importantly they have a banker, merchant and TP and you can go straight back to where you were) and they're free.)
 

2 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

The concern about a “noob trap” could be fixed if they added “not recommended for new players” on the item. But I doubt that will happen. For veterans it can be a good QoL item if you are tired of hp trains. 

They could do it like Elder Scrolls Online did with their equivalent item (skyshard unlock packs, which give skill points) - make it so you have to have completed the hero challenge once before you can buy an unlock on a 2nd character.

But I suspect Anet are ok with new players buying it. Maybe new players rushing through building a character and then getting confused isn't as much of a problem as it seems and it's just that we never hear from the ones who were fine with it? It's definitely not a new problem, in the first year after release I did a couple of dungeons with a guy who had never been in combat before, because when he bought the game his friend told him to buy gems, convert them to gold and buy materials to level through crafting because it's quicker. He came out of the tutorial, went into Divinity's Reach, stayed at a crafting station for a few hours, then went straight into doing dungeons (started with Caudecus Manor becausehe didn't know how to get to the others.) He was using all signets because he didn't know what any of the skills did or when to use them so that seemed simpler.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Danikat.8537

[ragas.1843]

20 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

I don't know how to feel about this...

So now apparently you can buy an item that allows you to complete a hero challenge in any expansion. Pay some money, skip the hero challenge and get the points. Plus bonus, makes map completion easier cause you don't have to do them now, you can just pay money to complete it.

I don't know. Feels like a slippery slope. I'm curious why they thought to add this to the gem store. Just buy the power, no need to earn it now.

Hmm...

They selling hero point community wtf not you killing your game....

They sell lv 80 booster that gives hero points gear etc... wow nice addition 🤨🤦

[Vitali.4719]

17 hours ago, Futa.4375 said:

Serious question: does this even exist? If so, please give a real example.

The Chinese version of Warframe had Prime weapons only available with the "premium" ingame currency and said weapons had to be maintained with the currency if you didn't want your weapon that you BOUGHT to just... Disappear. No idea if it's still a thing, but it happened.

[xersues.7189]

19 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I don't think there's more new ones being added. It's just that they also bring back the old ones at the same time, so there's more in total available at once. For example we haven't had a new lounge pass since Thousand Seas Pavillion was added in 2022 and I think the last one before that was Armistice Bastion in 2019. 

I'm talking about over the 10 year cycle of the game. Every single one of these was added post launch. Including the other boosts, unlocks, QoL items I mentioned. Having them rotate or be available in the store all at once is irrelevant - this addon is minor at best, which I believe was your point as well.

Edited November 29, 2023 by xersues.7189

[firedragon.8953]

When a dev starts selling things to help you skip the content of the game, you lose faith in said dev to develop evergreen engaging content. For Anet to be okay with this, they must also be seeing the end of the road somewhere. It isn't a good sign and there have been other "carrots" that Arenanet have been throwing around that seem to impact overall longevity on content (but I won't touch on them as not to derail the topic.) It's even worse because Anet HAS to know that HP trains are one of the community driven events in game and the shouldn't indirectly discourage participation in them.

And this is definitely different than lvl 80 boosters (which I think should be unusable on accounts without at least one lvl 80 character if being honest). Levels in GW2 don't really mean anything. You can boost to 80 and then still go back and engage in lvl 20 content (hearts, map exploration, etc.). It is technically not a "skip" but more of a "fast forward." HPs are different, because once they're unlocked, they are well...unlocked and there is no need to interact with said content (be it WvW or PvE).

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, firedragon.8953 said:

When a dev starts selling things to help you skip the content of the game, you lose faith in said dev to develop evergreen engaging content. For Anet to be okay with this, they must also be seeing the end of the road somewhere.

I thought that things like this were put into place to push players to the latest and/or end game content since that is where all of the advertising goes.  It's as if Anet feels that new players won't want to engage with the older content, so this is a plan to get them quickly to the new content and hopefully keep them engaged rather than new players being felt left out as they toil through earlier content in order to get all of their spec leveled up.  /shrug

[firedragon.8953]

1 minute ago, kharmin.7683 said:

It's as if Anet feels that new players won't want to engage with the older content, so this is a plan to get them quickly to the new content and hopefully keep them engaged rather than new players being felt left out as they toil through earlier content in order to get all of their spec leveled up.  /shrug

Horizontal progression, I once heard was a hallmark of GW2.
Shrug indeed.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Dopamine.6324 said:

30h for gift of battle 🤣 

30 hours for GoB, hours of gameplay for HPs in expansion zones, either some people are confused by clocks or they count the time spent having dinner, showering and sleeping part of the time it takes to get them.

[Wing.5819]

All the people arguing over the definition of P2W are kittening ridiculous.

It doesn't matter what you call it. It's a scummy business practice and you're all fools for bending over for it.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Wing.5819

[Albadaran.1283]

58 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I thought that things like this were put into place to push players to the latest and/or end game content since that is where all of the advertising goes.  It's as if Anet feels that new players won't want to engage with the older content, so this is a plan to get them quickly to the new content and hopefully keep them engaged rather than new players being felt left out as they toil through earlier content in order to get all of their spec leveled up.  /shrug

I am afraid that its really a change in approach, going the for the same earning model as BDO and other Korean games: make is super easy for players to get to max level, and earn money by selling convenience upgrades,  fancy gear and things to unlock content like wayponts and  hero points.

[Dopamine.6324]

2 minutes ago, Albadaran.1283 said:

I am afraid that its really a change in approach, going the for the same earning model as BDO and other Korean games

for that they would need to remove gold to gem trade making every person have to swipe and clearly make problems and only sell solutions via cash shop

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Dopamine.6324 said:

for that they would need to remove gold to gem trade making every person have to swipe and clearly make problems and only sell solutions via cash shop

Probably coming soon....