The core of GW2 - Arenanet philosophy

[Splat.7981]

Hello everyone.

So i started playing GW2 a few days ago. I'm really enjoying it so far, i have a question how long can it take to reach max level? I'm curious because some people have said that it can be done in 24 hours which is very impressive if this is true. But isn't 24 hours a bit short for a leveling journey?

Now the topic at hand, i noticed a few days ago that Arenanet now sells Hero Points in the gem store, now i don't think that this will disrupt my gameplay but i wonder where Arenanet will go after this and how much more impact NCSOFT has in their decisions for this game's monetization. 
I have read on these forums some replies from people saying that GW2 is P2W because we can simply swipe our credit card and buy legendary weapons and armor...is this true?

I'm not saying in any way that GW2 is P2W but i had a bad experience with Lost Ark, i went in there at release after being in the waiting line for so long and i was loving the game but one i got to see it's true nature and P2W and how they incentivize players to throw money at the shop to buy materials so that you can craft to have a chance to upgrade your gear and weapon (and even then you are not guaranteed an upgrade because the craft can fail/break), they actually tell players that's actually better to spend money in their shop for materials than to actually grind them...and this happens in a MMORPG.
So i wonder how things really are in GW2? I know and understand paying for convenience but how deep it goes?

I'm just curious about this and to read the opinions of people that know more about this game than me and that have been here for a long time. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

GW2 is not pay to win and never will be because the game has a fixed gear and potion ceiling.  It sounds like you have some experience of a game like WOW and have mistaken the chat on hero points as pay to win. its not, its merely a convenience.

[AliamRationem.5172]

20 minutes ago, Splat.7981 said:

Hello everyone.

So i started playing GW2 a few days ago. I'm really enjoying it so far, i have a question how long can it take to reach max level? I'm curious because some people have said that it can be done in 24 hours which is very impressive if this is true. But isn't 24 hours a bit short for a leveling journey?

Now the topic at hand, i noticed a few days ago that Arenanet now sells Hero Points in the gem store, now i don't think that this will disrupt my gameplay but i wonder where Arenanet will go after this and how much more impact NCSOFT has in their decisions for this game's monetization. 
I have read on these forums some replies from people saying that GW2 is P2W because we can simply swipe our credit card and buy legendary weapons and armor...is this true?

I'm not saying in any way that GW2 is P2W but i had a bad experience with Lost Ark, i went in there at release after being in the waiting line for so long and i was loving the game but one i got to see it's true nature and P2W and how they incentivize players to throw money at the shop to buy materials so that you can craft to have a chance to upgrade your gear and weapon (and even then you are not guaranteed an upgrade because the craft can fail/break), they actually tell players that's actually better to spend money in their shop for materials than to actually grind them...and this happens in a MMORPG.
So i wonder how things really are in GW2? I know and understand paying for convenience but how deep it goes?

I'm just curious about this and to read the opinions of people that know more about this game than me and that have been here for a long time. 

The definition of "P2W" is different depending upon how you define it.  I think most would say that GW2 is not P2W because there's no way to buy your way to significant power upgrades and/or save significant amounts of time.  Of course, this depends upon your definition of "significant".  For instance, you can now spend cash to gain hero points to unlock elite specs.  But this only saves you a couple of hours at best and is something any player can manage on their own.  You can also purchase some legendary weapons (but not armor/trinkets), which are technically BiS.  However, the significance of BiS is much less than it is in other games because this game is horizontal progression.  Thus the difference between a legendary weapon and a throwaway exotic weapon is only 5% stats.  It'd really be a stretch to call that P2W!

The most P2W aspect of GW2 in my opinion is that you can convert cash to gold via gems.  This will make resources significantly quicker and easier to acquire and fast-track your abilility to craft BiS gear.  However, you're still only buying a 5% stat advantage that is only strictly necessary for fractal progression and nothing else.

[Bladestrom.6425]

to help understand, Pay to win classically refers to games that offer exclusive or hard to get items that give an advantage in competitive play over others who don't have said items, and cannot access said items through normal gameplay.  GW2 however has everything easily accessible through many different routes, this includes hero points.  There is also that aforementioned hard power ceiling.

Edited December 3, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Farohna.6247]

Some legendary weapons you can buy in the trading post.  Armor you can not.   Legendaries are not a stat advantage over ascended armor...they are a convenience or skin with effects.  They offer nothing that makes you more proficient or better than anyone else. 

The items in the black lion gem store are convenience items... absolutely none of them are necessary, and everyone values them differently.  Want a pretty skin, fine.  Want to have some infinite tools if you farm a lot and hate vendors, sure.   Do they make you a magically higher DPS player...not at all.   Unlocking waypoints is controversial, but it really is a waste of money.  You can join a hero point train or buy them in WvW already, so yeh it's a gimmick.  

Not pay to win.   Do not stress about leveling, enjoy the journey...it's an MMO.   There is no gear grind like in some games.  The end game is a ridiculously wide variety of things...not just raids or arenas.  Most importantly have fun.

[Bladestrom.6425]

Good example @Splat.7981 I took a 2 year break awhile back to play ESO.  When i cam back the ascended gear I had was exactly as competitive as it was when i left, the power ceiling had not moved at all.  Ascended gear drops 2 a penny from every game type; pvp/wvw/ open world/raids etc.  As for Legendary gear (ultimate long term objectives), stats = exact same as Ascended with the additional convenience of not having to pay the cost to  change stats that you do with Ascended.

As suggested above, don't worry about getting to max level and enjoy the journey (including the fun if finding hero and mastery points.) this isn't wow in that everyone will be at the exact same power level now as they will in a years time, so don't rush past great content!

[Vayne.8563]

This is one of the big differences between Guild Wars 2 and most MMOs.

In most MMOs, leveling is something you do and you never go back to those leveling zones again. Everyone sits around huddled in the biggest city of the newest expansion waiting for their raid queues to pop. This is very different to Guild Wars 2.

In Guild Wars 2, you get downleveled when you go back, so you can't simply one shot everything when you do, and the g;ame gives you reasons to go back to those zones. So getting to 80 in this game does little more than open up more zones to you. As an example, I'm an 80th level character, but I've been doing things lately that require me to do jumping puzzles in lower level zones, world boss events in lower level zones, and farming in lower level zones.  I still spend a lot of times in 80 zones, but I'm not required to, and sometimes the game requires me to go back to those zones.

This game is a lot less linear than most games and most of us jump all over the place all the time. We find out where the action is by following the world boss timer and then we jump to that location to participate in that content, no matter what level zone it's in.

So why is leveling fast any better or worse in this game. In this game the journey isn't leveling. In this game, the journey, at least part of it, is in getting better. Our stats don't keep going up, our skill does. Now that's a real journey.

[XSevSpreeX.2143]

Yes, leveling can be done in 24 hours, even the first player to hit 80 did it in that time by exclusively crafting and it has only become faster since then if you know what you're doing or have tomes of knowledge stocked up. However, leveling is not the bulk of the game. Unlike other MMOs, content does not become irrelevant because you out-leveled it. This is not dissimilar from ANet's leveling philosophy of GW1, where you hit max level (20) early because "the game starts at level 20."

Additionally, all content added to the game in the last 11 years has been level 80 content. It has gotten harder through the introduction of more complex mechanics, but does not require better gear or higher levels (fractals being the only exception - higher level fractals require more agony resistance, which can only be put into ascended or legendary gear). There have been new stat combinations on gear that have been added over time that work better for certain builds (such as Viper's from HoT expansion for condi DPS or Ritualist from EoD for Condi boon builds), so that has contributed to power creep, but that's not necessarily vertical progression.

[Danikat.8537]

18 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

Hello everyone.

So i started playing GW2 a few days ago. I'm really enjoying it so far, i have a question how long can it take to reach max level? I'm curious because some people have said that it can be done in 24 hours which is very impressive if this is true. But isn't 24 hours a bit short for a leveling journey?

Now the topic at hand, i noticed a few days ago that Arenanet now sells Hero Points in the gem store, now i don't think that this will disrupt my gameplay but i wonder where Arenanet will go after this and how much more impact NCSOFT has in their decisions for this game's monetization. 
I have read on these forums some replies from people saying that GW2 is P2W because we can simply swipe our credit card and buy legendary weapons and armor...is this true?

I'm not saying in any way that GW2 is P2W but i had a bad experience with Lost Ark, i went in there at release after being in the waiting line for so long and i was loving the game but one i got to see it's true nature and P2W and how they incentivize players to throw money at the shop to buy materials so that you can craft to have a chance to upgrade your gear and weapon (and even then you are not guaranteed an upgrade because the craft can fail/break), they actually tell players that's actually better to spend money in their shop for materials than to actually grind them...and this happens in a MMORPG.
So i wonder how things really are in GW2? I know and understand paying for convenience but how deep it goes?

I'm just curious about this and to read the opinions of people that know more about this game than me and that have been here for a long time. 

Leveling to 80 in 24 hours probably is possible, but that would be power-levelling, not at all the way most players do it. If you level by following the story and exploring the maps it'll probably take 50-100 hours, although it depends on a lot of factors like how focused you are on doing things that give XP and how often you find dynamic events, since those are the main source of XP.

Don't worry about NCSoft. They've owned Arenanet since the very early days of GW1's development, before it was ever announced. Any impact they have on the game has been there since the very start. Also the hero point unlock isn't the first time they've done something like this. The level 80 boost has been in the gem store since 2015, there's other 'shortcuts' you can buy as well like waypoint unlock packs.

The important thing is no one needs any of those things. It's what I call 'pay to not play' - it lets you skip part of the process of setting up a new character, but there's pros and cons to doing that. It doesn't take that long to do it without paying (especially for a 2nd or later character) and you're likely skipping things you'd do anyway. If you play open-world PvE or WvW you'll get hero points just by playing and if you play PvP you won't need them. It's only really useful if you want to take the character straight into group instances and unlike in some games that's just one of many options, not the end-game.

My advice for all those things (and most stuff in the gem store actually) is not to buy it until you're sure it will be useful for you. There's a lot of things which might be useful, but it depends a lot on what you like to do and how you do it, so you could also easily waste money on stuff you don't need. Also it's possible to convert gold into gems to get cash shop items without spending real money and if you hold off on buying them you're more likely to have gold to convert.

[Pirogen.9561]

Whale hunting in MMOs.:

1. create "ranked" gear. So cheap, average, good, best, the super ultra best of the best
2. all gear is available ingame. Cheap gear is cheap, that "ultra" is not. Like totally not.
3. To get "the super ultra best of the best" it would take you like over 9000 hour multiplied by over 9000 of ingame grinding
4. But you can get The Good Stuff fast with CC. This is actually a lie. You can get The Good Stuff only with CC. Trick:
5. Super important trick: every "over 9000 hours" you must add new gear that is more powerfull then the old one
6. You have to prevent that "plebs" could grind "the super ultra best of the best". If you don't, Whales will go away. Whales want what plebs can not get.

Trick is, that "plebs" must never be able to get The Good Stuff. They think they can(with lots of grinding), but just as they get close, you add new expansion (that comes with new more powerful gear). Only CC can get you The Good Stuff. Not just faster. Its the only way.

Problem(for Whale hunting) with GW2: gear never gets better, more powerful. When you get Ascended gear, its over. Nothing is more powerful then Ascended. Legendary has the same stats as Ascended. Legendaries perk is that you can change stats fast and for free. But it is not more powerful.

Fashion is another story.

[DoomNexus.5324]

20 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

So i started playing GW2 a few days ago. I'm really enjoying it so far, i have a question how long can it take to reach max level? I'm curious because some people have said that it can be done in 24 hours which is very impressive if this is true. But isn't 24 hours a bit short for a leveling journey?

I have read on these forums some replies from people saying that GW2 is P2W because we can simply swipe our credit card and buy legendary weapons and armor...is this true?

With a new account it probably takes longer than 24h. Can't really say how long it takes tho, it also highly depends on how you are leveling.
Exploring, crafting and the main story probably gives pretty good XP while also helping you get closer to endgame.
You could even just go in sPvP or WvW and use the tomes of knowledge to level up your pve level but I think it takes quite a bit longer.

Regarding the p2w, well yea GW2 has, in theory, some of the most p2w mechanics. You could just straight up buy gold by swiping your card. The big difference between gw2 and actual p2w mmos is that gw2's power is capped and you'll reach the maximum quite quickly, so even if someone buys everything by swiping their credit card they won't have any advantage over you.
So p2w is of no concern.
Additionally, this also goes the other way (gold to gems) so you can buy stuff off the item shop by just using your ingame gold, which is great news for any players who don't want to/can't cash in real money.

[Danikat.8537]

4 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

With a new account it probably takes longer than 24h. Can't really say how long it takes tho, it also highly depends on how you are leveling.
Exploring, crafting and the main story probably gives pretty good XP while also helping you get closer to endgame.
You could even just go in sPvP or WvW and use the tomes of knowledge to level up your pve level but I think it takes quite a bit longer.

At least a couple of people were able to get to level 80 during the headstart weekend when the game first launched. I'm not sure of the specifics, but I suspect it involved crafting and possibly using real money converted to gold to get materials for it, although that would be easier said than done because there wouldn't be many people collecting high level materials to sell, and the TP was not reliable for the first couple of weeks.

I've got a perma-death challenge character who (among other things) is not allowed to use tomes or boosters, and while it could technically be allowed I've chosen not to use crafting to level her and avoided getting any of the Character Adventure Guide achievements past the first set, she also can't use waypoints or mounts to get around. She's level 75 and it's taken 54 hours to get to that point, so I suspect it will take about 60 hours to reach level 80 (assuming I don't mess up and die before then). Admittedly the actual process is a bit different to what a new player would do but I suspect the advantages of knowing where to go and what to do are balanced out by the restrictions like not being able to waypoint or go through the Heart of the Mists to get to a location.

So I'd say 50-100 hours is a good estimate for how long it'd take to level up by playing normally in PvE. I spend a lot of time doing things which don't give any XP (like trying to climb places I know I'm not supposed to be able to climb, or talking to every named NPC while exploring) and I think it usually takes me about 150 hours to level up a character.

Although I think another important point is it's unlikely there will be a big change in what you do once you get to level 80. If someone likes WvW or PvP it probably won't change at all and in PvE it means you've got a lot more maps to choose from and can skip ahead if you want to, but I suspect a lot of people will carry on doing the story and map completion. The biggest change would be if you like instanced PvE because then you can start doing Fractals, raids and strikes as well as dungeons. But even then you're probably not going to drop everything you were doing to focus on something new, so there's no need to feel under pressure to level quickly.

[Andy.5981]

On 12/3/2023 at 4:39 PM, Splat.7981 said:

Hello everyone.

So i started playing GW2 a few days ago. I'm really enjoying it so far, i have a question how long can it take to reach max level? I'm curious because some people have said that it can be done in 24 hours which is very impressive if this is true. But isn't 24 hours a bit short for a leveling journey?

 

I've just levelled a Human core Guardian to level 80 in just over 16 hours. Although I've got legendaries and a load of Ascended stuff stashed in the bank I like to level new characters without using any equipment other than the stuff they start with or drop along the way. At the present moment with the new player buff it has helped enormously. 

I followed the Personal story when I could and just kept swapping out armour and weapons etc as I dropped them if they were better than the stuff I had. It took map completion across five maps doing events that I encountered on the way together with wiping out any enemy that stood in my way to get to level 80.

[Buran.3796]

12 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Leveling to 80 in 24 hours probably is possible, but that would be power-levelling, not at all the way most players do it. If you level by following the story and exploring the maps it'll probably take 50-100 hours, although it depends on a lot of factors like how focused you are on doing things that give XP and how often you find dynamic events, since those are the main source of XP.

   I have 19 characters maxed out and despite I have like 15 stacks of knownledge tomes and could level up them from 1 to 80 in minutes I chose to level manually the latest 10 of them so I have planty of experince doing that (albeit I'm only proficient with some professions).

   I leveled them following a simple rule: complete all PvE core maps except the hearts, doing no WvW, no PvP and no instanced content (they can accelerate the proccess), and also try to die the least amounts of times. This is what I found:

   *  Now that the raptor mount is available from level 10 from purchasers of the game, a player which already knowns the game can rise a character from 1 to 80 in less than 18 hours. Some classes are better than others but I would say that the difference could be from 18 to 24 hours. And I'm sure that better players could do it even faster.

  * A free account only has access to raptor for 10 hours after reaching level 10 (less than 2 hours), and lacking the raptor makes things a bit slower, so a player familiarized with the game using the raptor only for 10 hours will usually reach 80 in 24-28 hours.

  *  In my easiest runs In did die like twice (fall damage and over leveled foes as main couases) and in the worst maybe 6-7 times.

   The things will be different for entirely new players: since you don't known how your profession works, how the combat mechanics work and how to face certain enemies you will play slower, you'll experience more difficult facing some challenging foes, etc.

 

   Guild wars 2 has some verical progression (masteries, mounts and specializations makes your character stronger) and sells some items of convenience and even some power through the gem store, BUT the ceiling in gear has been the same for 10 years and is relatively easy to achieve. The PvP has entirely standarized stats and you can get max stats gear in PvE/WvW in weeks with no random chances of success as in games as BDO. Is not a pay to win but you can be tempted to pay for convenience and/or looks.

[Splat.7981]

@vesica tempestas.1563 @AliamRationem.5172 I thank you for your feedback, i apologize for taking this long to reply. I'm more assured now 🙂 if it is like you have said then i don't see GW2 as P2W.
I wanted to ask you another question, this isn't related to the topic but in this way i avoid opening new threads, about the crafting in GW2 is it viable? Is it worth one investing into it? In MMORPG's i always loved to try and sell items, from armor, weapons, recipes, materials etc in the market/auction house, i love interacting with the economy on games that have it, is this possible in GW2 and can we make any silver or gold from the trading post using crafting? 

[Splat.7981]

On 12/3/2023 at 5:24 PM, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

Good example @Splat.7981 I took a 2 year break awhile back to play ESO.  When i cam back the ascended gear I had was exactly as competitive as it was when i left, the power ceiling had not moved at all.  Ascended gear drops 2 a penny from every game type; pvp/wvw/ open world/raids etc.  As for Legendary gear (ultimate long term objectives), stats = exact same as Ascended with the additional convenience of not having to pay the cost to  change stats that you do with Ascended.

As suggested above, don't worry about getting to max level and enjoy the journey (including the fun if finding hero and mastery points.) this isn't wow in that everyone will be at the exact same power level now as they will in a years time, so don't rush past great content!

Hello again 🙂 i really don't intend to rush it, i love exploring, in previous MMORPG's that i have played like WoW, FF14, SWTOR, Destiny (maybe not a full mmorpg) i always loved exploring, i love to find bits and pieces of the story as i explore, some mmorpg's are better at this than others, i don't know how GW2 does this but i will try to discover for myself. In the few videos i watched people say that the story and world exploration are good or an important part in the game so i hope i can find some nice stuff around Tyria 🙂 

[Splat.7981]

On 12/3/2023 at 5:15 PM, Farohna.6247 said:

Some legendary weapons you can buy in the trading post.  Armor you can not.   Legendaries are not a stat advantage over ascended armor...they are a convenience or skin with effects.  They offer nothing that makes you more proficient or better than anyone else. 

The items in the black lion gem store are convenience items... absolutely none of them are necessary, and everyone values them differently.  Want a pretty skin, fine.  Want to have some infinite tools if you farm a lot and hate vendors, sure.   Do they make you a magically higher DPS player...not at all.   Unlocking waypoints is controversial, but it really is a waste of money.  You can join a hero point train or buy them in WvW already, so yeh it's a gimmick.  

Not pay to win.   Do not stress about leveling, enjoy the journey...it's an MMO.   There is no gear grind like in some games.  The end game is a ridiculously wide variety of things...not just raids or arenas.  Most importantly have fun.

Hey there Farohna 🙂 in WoW i always loved to explore the world, sometimes i just wanted to do quests or dungeons and so on but most people, maybe by design of how the game is conceived, are just focus on either instanced pvp or dungeons but mostly raids, i have seen many players, mostly max level ones, just standing in a capital waiting for the group to be ready or for the raid/group finder pulls them in to a dungeon or raid...it feels like a login in/out game...

I would be a huge hypocrite if i said that i don't care for either dungeons and raids or even PvP, i love that content, i hope that GW2 can give me some content and enjoyment on that part but i'm happy to see that it isn't the only focus in the game.

One thing that i have been wondering, because i haven't seen it or experienced it, is what can GW2 or what does this game do to keep players wanting to login everyday?
Again i apologize for the comparison once again, but in WoW when i was playing on my own or doing group content, i could keep playing for the entire day (damned IRL) i mean i always had this feel of keeping playing the game. Hopefully within GW2 i can discover such a feeling again because i really want to, and it's very sad to me to say this, i really want to put WoW behind me, i do love that game but i can't keep playing a game that feels lackluster to me, probably i will miss a lot of cool things but it's time to move on for me.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Splat.7981 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 @AliamRationem.5172 I thank you for your feedback, i apologize for taking this long to reply. I'm more assured now 🙂 if it is like you have said then i don't see GW2 as P2W.
I wanted to ask you another question, this isn't related to the topic but in this way i avoid opening new threads, about the crafting in GW2 is it viable? Is it worth one investing into it? In MMORPG's i always loved to try and sell items, from armor, weapons, recipes, materials etc in the market/auction house, i love interacting with the economy on games that have it, is this possible in GW2 and can we make any silver or gold from the trading post using crafting? 

For the most part, no.  Most of the items you can craft are worth less than the materials required to craft them.  The exceptions are generally time-gated materials, limited to one per day.  Since the market is player-driven, if anything allowed you to purchase unlimited materials, craft items with them, and turn a significant profit it would quickly reach equilibrium as players rush to craft and sell that item.  So the opportunity to do so is very limited. 

That isn't to say that crafting isn't worth bothering with.  There are a lot of collections in this game that require crafted components.  There are the aforementioned time-gated materials.  And you might also want to craft account-bound armor and weapons that can't be purchased.

[Pirogen.9561]

2 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

I wanted to ask you another question, this isn't related to the topic but in this way i avoid opening new threads, about the crafting in GW2 is it viable? Is it worth one investing into it? In MMORPG's i always loved to try and sell items, from armor, weapons, recipes, materials etc in the market/auction house, i

To make money, you have to put everything into Trading Post. Never sell to generic NPC merchant. Trading post only. Exception is loot that is flaged as "junk". NPC merchant will give you lets say 2silver, on TP you can get 20 silver for the same thing. Or 2 gold. Or more. A lot more. Usefull link (old but still valid): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm53Wkj7GeM

Crafting profitable? Yes, but profit margins are low. For 99.9999% of stuff. Tho some are more profitable.

[Farohna.6247]

3 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

Hey there Farohna 🙂 in WoW i always loved to explore the world, sometimes i just wanted to do quests or dungeons and so on but most people, maybe by design of how the game is conceived, are just focus on either instanced pvp or dungeons but mostly raids, i have seen many players, mostly max level ones, just standing in a capital waiting for the group to be ready or for the raid/group finder pulls them in to a dungeon or raid...it feels like a login in/out game...

I would be a huge hypocrite if i said that i don't care for either dungeons and raids or even PvP, i love that content, i hope that GW2 can give me some content and enjoyment on that part but i'm happy to see that it isn't the only focus in the game.

One thing that i have been wondering, because i haven't seen it or experienced it, is what can GW2 or what does this game do to keep players wanting to login everyday?
Again i apologize for the comparison once again, but in WoW when i was playing on my own or doing group content, i could keep playing for the entire day (damned IRL) i mean i always had this feel of keeping playing the game. Hopefully within GW2 i can discover such a feeling again because i really want to, and it's very sad to me to say this, i really want to put WoW behind me, i do love that game but i can't keep playing a game that feels lackluster to me, probably i will miss a lot of cool things but it's time to move on for me.

Hello!  I'm really glad you're trying out GW2, asking some great questions, and I hope you have a great time!  My time in WoW continues to be some of my fondest gaming experiences, some friendships that continue to this day, and I miss it sometimes.  I don't miss paying $15 a month and that feeling like I HAVE to log in or I waste money as well as I'll get behind on gear, etc.  I haven't played in a few years so bear with me if anything I write seems outdated in regards to WoW.O

Oh yes, there is probably someone sitting in one of the cities in WoW for the past fifteen years. Some never leave their perch lol.  

GW2 has a ton of content.  If you liked dungeons in WoW, try fractals and dungeons.  Fractals have dailies, and they're usually preferred, and they have a tier system of difficulty.  PvP and WvW have dedicated players in both as well as casuals just doing their daily routines.  Try strikes (one boss mini raid) or raids.  I find them, overall, easier and messier than WoW's, but that's the shining star for WoW... they're raids, that's the end game for PvE, you're gearing so you can do them.  There are challenge modes for more difficulty.  GW2 shines with open world ...lots of events, metas, world bosses, and general exploration.  

What keeps people logging in.... subjective of course, everyone has their own reasons.  Legendary crafting is a big one, people working on collections for them.  It's a very social community, so a lot of players simply are there for spending time with friends.  There are a ton of achievements, many people enjoy working on those for self satisfaction.  Pretty sure there are people who never come out of WvW and never move from their computer.   To summarize, GW2 is a lot of choose your own adventure...it very much encourages you to try a little bit of everything to find what interests you ..it's almost too open ended.  So try it all, don't try to do it all in one day.

It's easier to step away from than WoW.  I played the other like a second job lol.... probably not a good thing.  GW2 I find a lot kinder on my personal life, I can play all day, I can skip a day, and not feel like I'm missing out or getting behind.  World of Warcrack is that constant running on the mouse wheel, GW2 is more relaxed or as stressful as you make it.  More about skins and plumage, less about your gear score.  

[Danikat.8537]

This might have been covered already but I just wanted to address it directly: there is a lot to find by exploring in this game. There's 'big' things like mini dungeons and jumping puzzles hidden in the map; some are kind of obvious once you know what you're looking for, others you'll probably only find with help or if you search every cliff, gap in terrain, bush etc. 

But there's also smaller stuff as well, people and things in odd places which are part of achievements, or just have interesting dialogue, chests and items hidden in unexpected places and some of the points of interest and vistas require a bit of exploration to get to. There's also events that start in some out of the way places, but they tend to be a bit more obvious.

You can of course use the Wiki to find all of it, often with detailed instructions on where to go and what to do, but if you like exploring it's well worth taking your time to look around as you go through the maps. I also recommend making at least one character a member of the Order of Whispers (this is done through the main story) because they get some bonus dialogue with some characters.

[DeanBB.4268]

Others have stated that crafting is good. Once you max it out, then you can make what you need -- Ascended gear, food & utility items, Legendary gear. That might require a recipe that you have to find and have the right currency for, or just purchasing a recipe from a vendor or the TP. There are opportunities just within the achievements for crafting as well. For example:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eclipse

I recommend playing for a while before you start crafting, to build up materials in your bank. Buying what you need can burn through your (probably) meager gold reserves as a new player.

Also, as you go along completing hearts, always check with the heart vendor that becomes available once the heart is complete. They sometimes have skins you can unlock for cheap via karma, crafting materials (food especially), or recipes. Some have unique items, like a gizmo that summons an ally for a short duration. And sell your junk items while you are there to help with inventory management.

One reason to push at least one character to 80 is to open up the Wizard's Vault to gain access to daily and weekly objectives and gain access to the rewards. 1 daily = 10 AA (currency), and you can buy 1 gold for 6 AA (max 90 per season), as well as a wide variety of other rewards. Lots of goodies in that there WV.

[Splat.7981]

1 hour ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Hello!  I'm really glad you're trying out GW2, asking some great questions, and I hope you have a great time!  My time in WoW continues to be some of my fondest gaming experiences, some friendships that continue to this day, and I miss it sometimes.  I don't miss paying $15 a month and that feeling like I HAVE to log in or I waste money as well as I'll get behind on gear, etc.  I haven't played in a few years so bear with me if anything I write seems outdated in regards to WoW.O

Oh yes, there is probably someone sitting in one of the cities in WoW for the past fifteen years. Some never leave their perch lol.  

GW2 has a ton of content.  If you liked dungeons in WoW, try fractals and dungeons.  Fractals have dailies, and they're usually preferred, and they have a tier system of difficulty.  PvP and WvW have dedicated players in both as well as casuals just doing their daily routines.  Try strikes (one boss mini raid) or raids.  I find them, overall, easier and messier than WoW's, but that's the shining star for WoW... they're raids, that's the end game for PvE, you're gearing so you can do them.  There are challenge modes for more difficulty.  GW2 shines with open world ...lots of events, metas, world bosses, and general exploration.  

What keeps people logging in.... subjective of course, everyone has their own reasons.  Legendary crafting is a big one, people working on collections for them.  It's a very social community, so a lot of players simply are there for spending time with friends.  There are a ton of achievements, many people enjoy working on those for self satisfaction.  Pretty sure there are people who never come out of WvW and never move from their computer.   To summarize, GW2 is a lot of choose your own adventure...it very much encourages you to try a little bit of everything to find what interests you ..it's almost too open ended.  So try it all, don't try to do it all in one day.

It's easier to step away from than WoW.  I played the other like a second job lol.... probably not a good thing.  GW2 I find a lot kinder on my personal life, I can play all day, I can skip a day, and not feel like I'm missing out or getting behind.  World of Warcrack is that constant running on the mouse wheel, GW2 is more relaxed or as stressful as you make it.  More about skins and plumage, less about your gear score.  

 

I love WoW as i mentioned above and although it pains me to say this yes, WoW does indeed feel more like a chore than to actually playing a game for the fun of it, now i don't doubt that many play WoW in a fun way that enjoy the game as it is, maybe in a RP server or smaller servers, i also agree with what you said if i don't log in each day i start to have these 2 feeling, 1 is that i feel like i'm starting to fall behind and that if i don't play it every day i'm wasting money.
I believe that MMORPG's with a monthly fee have their benefits but for me WoW isn't there anymore, now I'm sure i will miss Azeroth, the graphics i loved those it seemed that i was playing a video game inside a painting, everything seemed like it was handcrafted, it has great music, the world feels huge but i feel like it's time to move on from a game which focus is directing it's players always towards chasing their next item level upgrade and because the game creates this hamster wheel where the main focus of people is their next big gear or weapon upgrade.
Me for example I am or I was playing Wrath of the Lich King classic, i was currently leveling but once i reach level 80 i wouldn't be able to do any of those big raids of that expansion like Ulduar or Naxxramas, for example, because everyone is spamming Icecrown Citadel and the players will not want to waste their time (completely normal) with outdated or old content.

This is something that i always regretted that WoW never had or mismanaged awfully to make whole world feel relevant and not just a waste of time in the minds of many because it has become "old content"...and i have been wondering if i haven't been playing the wrong MMORPG for years? Isn't the point of a MMORPG to be a massive game? To make the world feel alive and relevant and simply not a afterthought? Again, WoW to me was and still feel addicting in the sense that i love the art style, places like Orgrimmar, Borean Tundra, Dalaran, i love the music and many other things...i even love the pvp in WoW, maybe GW2 will surprise me, but the pvp in WoW was satisfying but then the game focus itself , by design it seems, to place the players (example) in Dalaran and press a few buttons to get into the high level dungeons or raids, to focus on gear score...it just makes such a huge world, created by awesome minds, to feel so small at the same time.

I don't know, the unknown is always scary or clouded with doubt, i feel a bit optimistic because many here, on youtube, reddit seem to praise GW2 a lot and a lot of positives for this game are about exploration, old content, zones, dungeons, raids don't feel outdated because the game design has decided to make the whole world of Tyria to feel alive...in more ways than one I am excited about this new adventure, the WoW chip is still deep on my mind, but i will try to go into GW2 with a open mind.

One thing, in WoW i never managed to do or kill a world boss because of the flow of the game, "old content", in Lich King no new world  bosses were added, it's great to see that the bosses that came out in 2012 or since then are still a challenge to this day and that they keep adding new ones.

I'm not saying that Arenanet is a perfect company, hopefully NCSOFT isn't a big obstacle to their vision, I'm sure that many of you will have complaints or bad things to say about certain times in the game but at least they seem to have a good grasp as to how a MMORPG should be.

[Farohna.6247]

1 hour ago, Splat.7981 said:

I love WoW as i mentioned above and although it pains me to say this yes, WoW does indeed feel more like a chore than to actually playing a game for the fun of it, now i don't doubt that many play WoW in a fun way that enjoy the game as it is, maybe in a RP server or smaller servers, i also agree with what you said if i don't log in each day i start to have these 2 feeling, 1 is that i feel like i'm starting to fall behind and that if i don't play it every day i'm wasting money.
I believe that MMORPG's with a monthly fee have their benefits but for me WoW isn't there anymore, now I'm sure i will miss Azeroth, the graphics i loved those it seemed that i was playing a video game inside a painting, everything seemed like it was handcrafted, it has great music, the world feels huge but i feel like it's time to move on from a game which focus is directing it's players always towards chasing their next item level upgrade and because the game creates this hamster wheel where the main focus of people is their next big gear or weapon upgrade.
Me for example I am or I was playing Wrath of the Lich King classic, i was currently leveling but once i reach level 80 i wouldn't be able to do any of those big raids of that expansion like Ulduar or Naxxramas, for example, because everyone is spamming Icecrown Citadel and the players will not want to waste their time (completely normal) with outdated or old content.

This is something that i always regretted that WoW never had or mismanaged awfully to make whole world feel relevant and not just a waste of time in the minds of many because it has become "old content"...and i have been wondering if i haven't been playing the wrong MMORPG for years? Isn't the point of a MMORPG to be a massive game? To make the world feel alive and relevant and simply not a afterthought? Again, WoW to me was and still feel addicting in the sense that i love the art style, places like Orgrimmar, Borean Tundra, Dalaran, i love the music and many other things...i even love the pvp in WoW, maybe GW2 will surprise me, but the pvp in WoW was satisfying but then the game focus itself , by design it seems, to place the players (example) in Dalaran and press a few buttons to get into the high level dungeons or raids, to focus on gear score...it just makes such a huge world, created by awesome minds, to feel so small at the same time.

I don't know, the unknown is always scary or clouded with doubt, i feel a bit optimistic because many here, on youtube, reddit seem to praise GW2 a lot and a lot of positives for this game are about exploration, old content, zones, dungeons, raids don't feel outdated because the game design has decided to make the whole world of Tyria to feel alive...in more ways than one I am excited about this new adventure, the WoW chip is still deep on my mind, but i will try to go into GW2 with a open mind.

One thing, in WoW i never managed to do or kill a world boss because of the flow of the game, "old content", in Lich King no new world  bosses were added, it's great to see that the bosses that came out in 2012 or since then are still a challenge to this day and that they keep adding new ones.

I'm not saying that Arenanet is a perfect company, hopefully NCSOFT isn't a big obstacle to their vision, I'm sure that many of you will have complaints or bad things to say about certain times in the game but at least they seem to have a good grasp as to how a MMORPG should be.

WoW you really needed a guild or a solid group of friends to show up regularly to be able to do older content with, people who wanted mounts or achievements.  I had the good fortune to have a guild with the people I played with daily, and was able to do many things that were not new content.  I played WotLK upon release, some of my all time favorite story and content for any game.  

GW2 can have some of the same issues...but you can join up to five guilds that help fulfill multiple roles for you.  The looking for group tool is very effective, as well as asking on a map or in a city.  The community is very helpful, and one of the best aspects of the game.  Dailies and achievements and how they try to tie in new content to old maps also helps a lot to keep areas active.  

Core Tyria is a free game....you pay nothing, just play.  If you want more, pick up some expansions when they are on sale.  Remember it is not WoW, it is its own game.  The combat, maps, open world content, and gorgeous mount design are some of the best aspects that often outshine WoW.  Take a breath, relax, and just enjoy adventuring.  

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

or just have interesting dialogue

This is all over Tyria.  10+ years in the game, and just this week I passed by a town crier in Divinity's Reach who said to no one in particular as he was strolling:  "I like .... pie."

That was it.  He just kept on walking.

I had never seen him/heard him before.  10+ years.  Still finding little things like this.