CORE PROFFESIONS HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION IN FUTURE???

[arazoth.7290]

I don't see them adding new elite specs. But rather some for core professions in general.

Things that could be added in future :

• More core weapons.

• Another core traitline.

• 5 new core abilities and in case of revenant a new core legendary stance.

It would be best to add all 3 of these pointers at once.

Edited December 8, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[Dadnir.5038]

• Core weapon? Possible.
• Core traitline? I doubt it. That said I think they might add new traits within the existing e-specs traitlines.
• 5 new core utility skills? Would be nice. Personally I'd prefer sets of common/neutral skills that could be used by all professions instead of new sets given to each profession. There would be less work involved and maybe we could get those more often. (Revenant could get a core legend that could take in all neutral skills in order to make this possible which would finally let them use racial skill for all they are worth)

For fun, I'd add, some neutral elite specs traitline:

• For PvE and WvW: An elite spec whose traitline focus on improving food effect.
• For PvE: Elite spec(s) that add variation to the jade bot (the mechanism is a bit bland right now).
• For WvW: An elite spec that allow the player to use siege machine blueprint in a different by sloting them on the utility skill slot and using them like some sort of engineer's kits.
• For PvP... Well, let's not suggest anything, it's better to not kick the hornet nest.

[Mell.4873]

There is room to add a heal and ultimate to some utilities like Signets on Ranger. It even has 2 traits for it. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mell.4873

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

I strongly agree with Anet doing something like this. I think it would help flesh core builds in PvE and maaaybe (but not likely) bring down power creep?

Make the Class Mechanic traitline (things like Beastmastery, Arcane, Soul Reaping, etc) mutually exclusive with Elite Specs and only usable in the 3rd slot instead of creating an entirely new elite spec for core would be the simplest way to do that.

I also agree with adding a new weapon thats unique for the core classes, although this is sorta out the window with Weaponmaster Training. If it was ever reverted or if Anet never went this direction in the first place, adding a new weapon like they are doing now with Ranger Mace, Guardian Pistol, etc, would have been good, and likely wouldn’t be the same weapons we’re getting now.

In addition, either creating a new set of skills to be used strictly with core like what’s done with elite specs, or even choose an existing set of skills that become core only. This could be easier done by fleshing out the heal and elite skills more to fill in the missing gaps (things like heal and elite signet for Ranger). Revenant would likely get a new legend due to the nature of the class.

All these together would give the core classes a slew of knobs that Anet could use to tune the core class around and make them more competitive with Elite Specs. One of the originally advertised points of Elites is that they were side-grades to the core class. They simply introduced new capabilities and roles to the classes, but we’re not strictly better than the core classes they were a part of. Its very obvious at this point that that is no longer the case and this is a direction I really wish Anet would have went, especially before EoD. A Core Beastmaster Ranger could have adequately fulfilled the fantasy of a Ranger focused on its pet and allowed us to get a different elite spec (Untamed has grown on me with the introduction of Let Loose, but it’s taken a *long* time to get there). With the direction they’ve been going though and how severely neglected core classes have been for a while now, this is seeming increasingly unlikely. At a minimum it would be nice to see small parts of this get piecemeal added, such as starting off with fleshing out missing heal and elite skill types.

Edited December 8, 2023 by AlexndrTheGreat.8310

[DeanBB.4268]

At the least, making sure every skill type has a full set. Example: Elite Trap for Ranger. Many other skill types don't have heal | 3 utility | elite.

[BobbyT.7192]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:45 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

For PvP... Well, let's not suggest anything, it's better to not kick the hornet nest.

If anything, that hornet nest should be punted across the field like an asuran during a football match. Can't be afraid to add anything new in the event it could break the meta or something.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:50 AM, arazoth.7290 said:

I don't see them adding new elite specs. But rather some for core professions in general.

Things that could be added in future :

• More core weapons.

• Another core traitline.

• 5 new core abilities and in case of revenant a new core legendary stance.

It would be best to add all 3 of these pointers at once.

I don't think all three at once is likely. That'd be almost as much work to do as an elite specialisation, and I don't think ArenaNet wants to commit to that amount of new content on an annual basis. They might do a core traitline alongside core utilities if they felt that the new utilities needed a traitline to support their intended playstyle. 

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't think all three at once is likely. That'd be almost as much work to do as an elite specialisation, and I don't think ArenaNet wants to commit to that amount of new content on an annual basis. They might do a core traitline alongside core utilities if they felt that the new utilities needed a traitline to support their intended playstyle. 

I can hope hehe

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:25 PM, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

One of the originally advertised points of Elites is that they were side-grades to the core class. They simply introduced new capabilities and roles to the classes, but we’re not strictly better than the core classes they were a part of. Its very obvious at this point that that is no longer the case

(snip)

With the direction they’ve been going though and how severely neglected core classes have been for a while now, this is seeming increasingly unlikely.

I wouldn't mind also seeing the racial skills reworked to the point of being at least somewhat useful. As they exist now, there's almost no scenario where those are even an option worth considering.

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I wouldn't mind also seeing the racial skills reworked to the point of being at least somewhat useful. As they exist now, there's almost no scenario where those are even an option worth considering.

True, but there shouldn't be like a certain race becomes the best. Because that's what they tried to prevent. 

So they should make it situational good/usefull but not mandatory

[Teknomancer.4895]

I remember that, but the problem is that they prevented it to the point where they're neither useful nor necessary. They've long been abandoned content.

The last time I slotted one of those skills was probably way back when the core game was all that existed and even then they weren't the best options available.

Too many of them are elites and that's part of it; if they were adjusted and converted to utilities they might be at least occasionally useful, or at least not utterly useless.

[arazoth.7290]

10 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I remember that, but the problem is that they prevented it to the point where they're neither useful nor necessary. They've long been abandoned content.

The last time I slotted one of those skills was probably way back when the core game was all that existed and even then they weren't the best options available.

Too many of them are elites and that's part of it; if they were adjusted and converted to utilities they might be at least occasionally useful, or at least not utterly useless.

Or make them like masteries. That would maybe be interesting and it doesn't take other abilties you already have chosen.

[Beddo.1907]

If fine with new core weapons, but I'd prefer new core traits and skills after what we have is fixed up. Currently there is A LOT of traits and skills that are pretty much dead or at least super situational.

[otto.5684]

Core trait line, probably not. I most definitely would love to see more core utilities and weapons.

[Angesombre.4630]

Knowing that the revenant doesn't have access to racial competence...?

[Jski.6180]

I realty want to see anet complete the current core utility lines that are missing heals and elite skills.

[Dawdler.8521]

Everything they add to core that make it worth playing core, make it even more worth playing elites. Because that's how the system works. 

So how exactly would this do anything for core?

For something to be usefull to core, it require a class design that makes it worth actually choosing core. Anet did it with HoT - probably the best example being core necro with it's ranged shroud vs reaper with it's melee only shroud completely changing that aspect of it - then they pretty much abandoned that concept and made the elites a plain better version at everything. Only a few "unique" things remain for core, such as core engie being the only one with access to moa.

[DeanBB.4268]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Everything they add to core that make it worth playing core, make it even more worth playing elites. Because that's how the system works. 

So how exactly would this do anything for core?

For something to be usefull to core, it require a class design that makes it worth actually choosing core. Anet did it with HoT - probably the best example being core necro with it's ranged shroud vs reaper with it's melee only shroud completely changing that aspect of it - then they pretty much abandoned that concept and made the elites a plain better version at everything. Only a few "unique" things remain for core, such as core engie being the only one with access to moa.

I've never used Elixir X. What prevents an elite spec from using it? Mechanist, I guess, doesn't get the extra tool skills.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I've never used Elixir X. What prevents an elite spec from using it? Mechanist, I guess, doesn't get the extra tool skills.

Engineers get a toolbelt skill for their elite skill on F5 if they don't have an elite specialisation (scrapper replaces it with function gyro, holo with holoforge, and mechanist replaces the whole toolbelt). The toolbelt skill for Elixir X is a thrown elixir that turns enemies in the area into moas for... 1.5 seconds, I think? Not long, but often long enough if timed right.

So there's nothing preventing elite specs from using Elixir X generally, but they won't get that moa transformation toolbelt skill.

[Phyb.6704]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:50 AM, arazoth.7290 said:

I don't see them adding new elite specs. But rather some for core professions in general.

Things that could be added in future :

• More core weapons.

• Another core traitline.

• 5 new core abilities and in case of revenant a new core legendary stance.

It would be best to add all 3 of these pointers at once.

 

An extremely easy way to bring core builds back into the game.

If you do not use an elite spec... you can use 4 trait lines. 

If you use an elite spec then only 3 trait lines.

Why would you still then go elite spec? Necro elite spec shrouds are one big reason. As is heralds boon support.

I see zero problem with letting us have a 4th trait line in exchange for not using an elite. This would actually make me want to use core rev (for example)  in open world but still keep herald and vindi relevent for group content. 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:20 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Everything they add to core that make it worth playing core, make it even more worth playing elites. Because that's how the system works. 

So how exactly would this do anything for core?

For something to be usefull to core, it require a class design that makes it worth actually choosing core. Anet did it with HoT - probably the best example being core necro with it's ranged shroud vs reaper with it's melee only shroud completely changing that aspect of it - then they pretty much abandoned that concept and made the elites a plain better version at everything. Only a few "unique" things remain for core, such as core engie being the only one with access to moa.

I think this post right here sums up best why this wouldn't do what I think the OP wants. I run core mesmer most of the time. Chrono is fine, Mirage is fine, Virt is.....very not fine but I like just playing a mesmer. And there's nothing wrong with that. And there are things I wish that we did better, like just being able to match some of the other especs in dps (power creep is a kitten). But anything you do for core will be carried over into the especs, so we're really past the point of balance on that one. The rubicon has been crossed, the bridge has been burned, and we've insulted their mothers. There's no going back.

On 12/8/2023 at 6:33 PM, DeanBB.4268 said:

At the least, making sure every skill type has a full set. Example: Elite Trap for Ranger. Many other skill types don't have heal | 3 utility | elite.

I do agree this would be a good place to start though. As a mesmer, since that's what I'm most familiar with, Illusion skills have no Heal nor Elite, Glamour has no Heal, and Mantras have no Elite. It would be great to see them fleshed out a bit more to fill in those gaps.

[arazoth.7290]

WHAT IF

You can get now a 4th sort of self completely build traitline that is inspired by the previous selected 3 traitlines. Only core builds can get this.

 

So you have a 4th sort of selfmade.

 •Your major traits are a further extension of the 3 previous traitlines. You can choose which major trait belongs to which traitline to go in further, 1 traitline for 1 major each.

•Your minor traits are a further extension of the 3 previous traitlines too. You can choose tol which minor trait belongs to which traitline to go further in, 1 traitline for 1 minor each.

[DeanBB.4268]

Or, if you want more power, you could play an elite spec.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

WHAT IF

You can get now a 4th sort of self completely build traitline that is inspired by the previous selected 3 traitlines. Only core builds can get this.

Then everyone would play Core Builds. There's entire traitlines where the full line is almost completely useless, but a single Grandmaster trait in it is so powerful that builds will take it simply to get access to that singular trait. ANet would have to implement 4th traitlines that are minimally useful so as not to edge out Elite Specs, in which case why even bother implementing them at all.

Personally, I think adding Heroes would be nice (restricted to instanced content; does not include things like Dragonstorm), gives people another customization as well as opening up instanced content a little bit more for people who have trouble finding/making groups. Sure, you wouldn't be clearing 100CM Fractals, Raids, or Harvest Temple, but it would help people muddle through Dungeons, 1-25 Fractals, Fast5 Strikes, and Personal Story (for those who need it).

[arazoth.7290]

9 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Or, if you want more power, you could play an elite spec.

It isn't about more power. It's about giving more build variety and getting core builds more available. It won't harm elite specs since they don't benefit from it. It's core only.