all the copers have moved to the new fotm, hammer DH [Merged]

[Eddie.9143]

very OP. 

[arazoth.7290]

10 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

very OP. 

in ffa?

[Kuma.1503]

Porting onto a ranger with Hammer 5 is still one of the funniest things you can do. 

[shion.2084]

I don't know what a coper is, but there is a core guard hammer build that is tanky as hell and hits like a tank.  It's slow to be fair.   However I can't move it off point, it literally can face tank my nade spam... and if it catches me I'm dead.   It kinda "feels" like a Blade Sworn build, tankiness with high burst damage output.   It also has nice CC for extra fun.  You will see more of it.

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

I don't know what a coper is, but there is a core guard hammer build that is tanky as hell and hits like a tank.  It's slow to be fair.   However I can't move it off point, it literally can face tank my nade spam... and if it catches me I'm dead.   It kinda "feels" like a Blade Sworn build, tankiness with high burst damage output.   It also has nice CC for extra fun.  You will see more of it.

Scourge is nion the same. Stand on point, systamatically spam aoe at feet, no target required. I can't burst this spec down on power ele, not even on glass, newbs aside. On rev, with 1500 condi -50Queen procs and avoiding as much of the aoe as possible, I can't break its tank. Its just the necro virsion of bladesworn. DH on the other hand, nothing compares to that monstrosity of toxic game design, a 1200unit unblockable that can pull many specs into a 1 shot, what could possible be wrong with that? People say "just dodge", ok, so lets bring back pre-nerf maul co-efficiants? kitten I miss those 16k crits.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Is hammer the problem? Or is teleport + hammer the problem?

I propose to change all teleport skills to leap skills....no more instant transmission. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Flowki.7194]

26 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Is hammer the problem? Or is teleport + hammer the problem?

I propose to change all teleport skills to leap skills....no more instant transmission. 

Everything about DH is wrong. Everything.

[magickthief.6492]

On 12/10/2023 at 4:23 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Thats ironic, considering the entry bar to play DH is 0.5/10 of a brain. The self entitlement of DH mains to exect double the effort to be countered 😜

As long as they don't have stealth, it's not an issue.

[Flowki.7194]

Just now, magickthief.6492 said:

As long as they don't have stealth, it's not an issue.

Im not following?

[Sahne.6950]

13 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

People say "just dodge", ok, so lets bring back pre-nerf maul co-efficiants?

If you dont dodge the DH f1 or stunbreak the pull.... you deserve to die 😄

 

->How to beat DH.<-

DH´s damage is funneled sooo hard into the f1 pull.     avoiding it is all it takes.

If you still got hit, now is the time to start GAMING!     Wait till he pulls you.  you NEED to expect the pull! get ready.  Hover your stunbreak button. And then all you need to do is stunbreak BEFORE reaching the traps.      You can stunbreak at any point, and will just stop where you are at the time.     The pull animation is raaaather slow.... i mean... not rly.... but there is enough time to stunbreak before you are fully Yeeted into the trap moshpit.         Wait for the pull, and instantly stunbreak it.  

 

If you either dodged the f1, or managed to stunbreak before being succed into the shadowrealm, you pretty much won the fight already.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

If you dont dodge the DH f1 or stunbreak the pull.... you deserve to die 😄

 

->How to beat DH.<-

DH´s damage is funneled sooo hard into the f1 pull.     avoiding it is all it takes.

If you still got hit, now is the time to start GAMING!     Wait till he pulls you.  you NEED to expect the pull! get ready.  Hover your stunbreak button. And then all you need to do is stunbreak BEFORE reaching the traps.      You can stunbreak at any point, and will just stop where you are at the time.     The pull animation is raaaather slow.... i mean... not rly.... but there is enough time to stunbreak before you are fully Yeeted into the trap moshpit.         Wait for the pull, and instantly stunbreak it.  

 

If you either dodged the f1, or managed to stunbreak before being succed into the shadowrealm, you pretty much won the fight already.

dragon hunter traps need damage reduction... they basically make dragon hunter 1 shot too ez for no effort. They should hold their aoe denial presence but not these 1 shots because you didn't watch a pull in teamfight.

In teamfight dragon hunter isn't the only one you have to bewary of to use your stunbreaks for, it's a 5 player game.

Personally I don't have this problem mostly, also because I am ranged so I can hold distance and break Tether/stunbreak it easier.

But even without tether, the traps damage is absurd burst. Should have some more overtime damage and less 1 shot potential (8-12k hits by entering it even)

[Sahne.6950]

i mean i get what you are saying when you say they deal too much dmg.

Nothing more frustrating than shadowstepping out of a trap, just to activate it regardless, because gw2 is doodoo and eating a 12k hit...

But you are asking to nerf it, while also saying you dont struggle against it... which is just....odd.

I dont feel like a nerf is justified.  But then again.. i met this Hammer DH build twice so far... and both of them just straight up exploded

Edited December 13, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Shagie.7612]

glacial blow hits like a truck even on demo or valk amulet
if it's allowed to do that i want damage buffs too

anyways i don't really think gimmicky specs and one shot specs are that great for mmo pvp

if it works, you instantly die, if it doesn't, they don't do anything
they're too binary and neither player involved particularly has fun past a couple hours worth of pvp video montage moments

[arazoth.7290]

53 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i mean i get what you are saying when you say they deal too much dmg.

Nothing more frustrating than shadowstepping out of a trap, just to activate it regardless, because gw2 is doodoo and eating a 12k hit...

But you are asking to nerf it, while also saying you dont struggle against it... which is just....odd.

I dont feel like a nerf is justified.  But then again.. i met this Hammer DH build twice so far... and both of them just straight up exploded

If I would be going melee weapons more then I would have to bewary of that aoe denial a lot when to go in. But not everyone uses ranged weapons only (for sure not on rev, which is what I do). So it was mostly meant on my teamates who go in the fight and get killed by it 😬.

Also I was talking about dh in general and not hammer specific.

 

I am asking for a nerf on their big instant numbers yes to lower that enough. But meanwhile they should compensate it also with some buffs in certain areas which are lacking so far I can tell. ===>

The following few could get some. And also to make longbow better at the same time for other guard specs.

•True Shot: Lower cd from 8 second to 6 seconds for more reliable/frequent 2nd skill hit. Nerf the damage to compensate.

•Symbol of Energy: Increase physical damage on pulsing that it becomes a stronger aoe damage.

•Hunter's Ward: They could add also pulsing damage that's worth it ontop of final hit. And if google is right, lower 40 second cd to 25 seconds. 40 sec for a weapon skill is little much.

•Procession of Blades: Add atleast cripple on it/pulse. Goes along with dh cripple increased damage trait, so damage doesn't need buff bc of this synergy if added.

•Deflecting shot: Adding a 2nd flip skill when you knockback an enemy, to pull 1 enemy towards you (skillcap increases to get a pull, the further away you are). This is to hold people in your aoe trap better and less relying on hammer and so.

•Test of Faith: Nerf this 1 shot potential, that we see max 4-5k hits if we get pulled, protection boon uptime not counted with this.

 

In short ===>

overtime pulsing aoe damage gets increased which were weaker and the 1 shot potential gets some nerf.

You have now more time to escape because you get less 1 shotted but if you decide to stay in you feel the aoe pressure. 

But if the dh is good enough they can potentially hold the target in traps. Unless countered by stability, but stability countering it was already before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flowki.7194]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

If you dont dodge the DH f1 or stunbreak the pull.... you deserve to die 😄

 

->How to beat DH.<-

DH´s damage is funneled sooo hard into the f1 pull.     avoiding it is all it takes.

If you still got hit, now is the time to start GAMING!     Wait till he pulls you.  you NEED to expect the pull! get ready.  Hover your stunbreak button. And then all you need to do is stunbreak BEFORE reaching the traps.      You can stunbreak at any point, and will just stop where you are at the time.     The pull animation is raaaather slow.... i mean... not rly.... but there is enough time to stunbreak before you are fully Yeeted into the trap moshpit.         Wait for the pull, and instantly stunbreak it.  

 

If you either dodged the f1, or managed to stunbreak before being succed into the shadowrealm, you pretty much won the fight already.

 

Tbh I don't care for this kind of reasoning becuase simply:

 

If player A misses a key dodge of the DH push, pull or trap drop, player A takes MASSIVE damage.

Player A is on a "sustained damage spec", the DH can facetank multiple hits.

 

So you see, lets assume both players are bad at dodging.. yet one player is punished far more than the other simply becuase of spec. We are not talking about small punishments here.. litteral 1 shot level dmg while the DH can face tank similar damage with blocks while still being able to attack.

 

 

5 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

dragon hunter traps need damage reduction... they basically make dragon hunter 1 shot too ez for no effort. They should hold their aoe denial presence but not these 1 shots because you didn't watch a pull in teamfight.

In teamfight dragon hunter isn't the only one you have to bewary of to use your stunbreaks for, it's a 5 player game.

Personally I don't have this problem mostly, also because I am ranged so I can hold distance and break Tether/stunbreak it easier.

But even without tether, the traps damage is absurd burst. Should have some more overtime damage and less 1 shot potential (8-12k hits by entering it even)

 

And then this.. while also assuming the DH is not a moron and/or its a group fight.  Its funny how people always talk about countering the DH, as if the DH is just a bot/newb player.

 

I have 0 ego on this, and I will openly admit that I miss dodges vs DH, just like I miss dodges vs any other spec. That isn't the problem.. its the distribution of punishment for missing a dodge, which is wildly all over the place in this game.. from specs like 12k ele that can't afford to miss a single dodge.. to specs like DH/blood/scourge/virt on and on.. that can face tank multiple heavy hits. Its not like those specs do low damage either.

 

DH is a problem for a key reason, it can essentially 1 shot many specs, but it does not have the "bad passive sustain" that traditional power specs use to have. You play power ele? surely you understand the quick punishment ANY class can dish out to you if you mess up active mititation. Punishment for lack of dodging should be consistant, specs need concious, active mitigation in order to bring out those punishments, which is not the case for gaurd in general, along with necro and warrior, the 3 lords of facetank.

 

BTW - Are you saying maul was not a projected ability that could be dodged? I mean even now people say it has "no sustain".. so can we bring back pre-nerf maul? 16k crits becuase they deserve it for missing a well animated attack? no such thing as defensive CDs and dodge downtime either. But is that the nature of the game we expect?, no dodges left so now you should just get 1 shotted by front loaded specs that by their very nature, are going to exhuast your dodges before you exhaust theirs?

Edited December 13, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

DH can facetank multiple hits.

 

So you see, lets assume both players are bad at dodging.. yet one player is punished far more than the other simply becuase of spec. We are not talking about small punishments here.. litteral 1 shot level dmg while the DH can face tank similar damage with blocks while still being able to attack.

The thing is.... nowadays most builds can:

facetank multiple hits. ✅

literaly 1 shot level dmg  ✅

stillbeing able to attack while blocking ✅

proof: Let me do the exact thing you are mad about to a hammerguardian.

 

I know what kind of beast Hammer guardian is, but i dont see a reason to nerf it.

[Flowki.7194]

16 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The thing is.... nowadays most builds can:

facetank multiple hits. ✅

literaly 1 shot level dmg  ✅

stillbeing able to attack while blocking ✅

proof: Let me do the exact thing you are mad about to a hammerguardian.

 

I know what kind of beast Hammer guardian is, but i dont see a reason to nerf it.

Haha I litterally just added that to my post 😜

Thats why I started using double arcane shields on core and cata, so that I don't die to 1 shots while trying to do damage. Its quite difficult to manege, as if you pop your arcane shield just before they pop an immune, you have to stop attacking, wasting your shield burst cover, while they can still do damage. But at least I know any kills I get are not from fking crutch mechanics.

 

The reason to nerf DH is simple, that much damage should not come down to 1 mechanic, just like 16k maul crits were rediculous. It doesnt not matter how consistant or inconsistant it is.. that just shifts the annoyence; If its inconsistant 1 shots, its annoying to play as, since you die empty handed alot OR if its too consistant (13k+ maul crits) its annoying to play against as you die a lot to it.. while the same player face tanks multiple of your 4k hits.

 

I should add, what I really mean is they should change DH mechanics to do more consistant lower damage/application across abilitys, but they have proven time and time again they will not touch core mechanics.. so that leaves the only option of reducing trap damage. Thats not my fault.. that DH mechanics are toxic at the core.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The reason to nerf it is simple, that much damage should not come down to 1 mechanic

you might not agree, but i like the concept of being punished when making a mistake.

Clear matchup.   pay attention, and you can beat it. slip and you trip.    i LOVE that concept.

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you might not agree, but i like the concept of being punished when making a mistake.

Clear matchup.   pay attention, and you can beat it. slip and you trip.    i LOVE that concept.

So do I, when all specs are consistantly punished for mistakes, which they are not. Are you going to suggest the DH puts in more effort and risk to kill you as ele, than you him? sPVP is also not just about 1v1, I mean look how close to death you were despite "knowing how to outplay it". In a group fight, you were dead.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

15 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

So do I, when all specs are consistantly punished for mistakes, which they are not. Are you going to suggest the DH puts in more effort and risk to kill you as ele, than you him?

no i dont, but the concept of  "Effort <-> reward" has been lost long ago.   Edit: was never a thing to begin with.

Welcome to gw2

Only reason to go the extra mile, is that you enjoy doing it.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Vinny.7260]

Wait- we're complaining about DH?

Only thing I could think of MAYBE being annoying is the Aegis on trap.

Fighting a DH in FFA and they're being annoying? Swap to DH and return the favor. 🐈‍⬛

[Balsa.3951]

On 12/13/2023 at 5:38 AM, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Is hammer the problem? Or is teleport + hammer the problem?

I propose to change all teleport skills to leap skills....no more instant transmission. 

ya make guard even more slow...

bcs we all know Guardians are famous for their mobility

[Saiyan.1704]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:32 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

very OP. 

Lol hardly OP... it's just FINALLY good in a specific area. That area being team fighting because hammer is finally doing what it's supposed to do (hasn't been this way since 2012/2013). LB is very niche... no one should be dying to LB DH in Plat unless they're lower in rating.

DH is EXTREMELY slow... it has sword#2, offhand sword, judges intervention, and F2. That's all it gets for mobility. It has 0 access to Resistance unlike WB... but it's outperforming Wb finally.
(If you go full traps then you lose even more mobility and/or a CC stunbreak)

If you really want to counter DH though, bring condi, boon ripping, unblockable Necros rofl.... The meta will gradually change and people are going to figure out how to counter DH better.
*sips coffee cup filled with tears*

[Yasai.3549]

18 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

->How to beat DH.<-

Get a class who has Stability on demand.

ftfy

[Sahne.6950]

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Get a class who has Stability on demand.

Thats not what i said, and not what i meant.

I said you need a brain/skill/matchup experience and reflexes good enough to dodge the spear, or stunbreak before getting succed into the traps, in order to beat it. 

 

But dont worry.... Alot of people dont know the difference between boons and actually playing smart. 😉

Edited December 14, 2023 by Sahne.6950