WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket system and requirement for Conflux.

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Never surprises me anymore the lengths some people will go to extract a reward out of a game. 😏🍦

That can be fun.

But for some reason many of the people that do this are finding ways to not have fun.

Edited December 14, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Solvar.7953]

Has Anet ever said what the official policy regarding rewards on the first tick is?  Can I instead say it is a bug that one does not get rewards on the first tick, and switching maps is just a way to work around that bug?  It can certainly suck to join WvW when there is 4:55 left in the tick, so you get no tick rewards for that time, yet your participation still goes down.

As far as lengths one will go to - I enjoy WvW to a limit, and that limit is quite a bit less than the 20 hours a week it would take to get the final diamond chest.  In the great scheme of things, this is a fairly simple way to get those rewards - simpler than setting up a multi account kill exchange system which I'm sure some people do.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

With all due respect, why is it that every complaint about what it takes to build some reward in GW2 can be translated to, "I want it faster."

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

With all due respect, why is it that every complaint about what it takes to build some reward in GW2 can be translated to, "I want it faster."

There is no such thing as patience anymore.

Though in all fairness, time is limited for everyone. The main problem is balancing a game around one's self so people end up trying to change a game mode for that, with no benefit to the people that actually play the game mode. The other problems are they tunnel vision on the legendary so that only that matters and nothing else.   Rewards should be based on the sustainability of the game mode in the long run, and not balanced around people who will be gone anyways in 3 months.

The other problem is usually because the game mode being complained about is usually their least experienced, they also lack knowledge/experience in it, so any comparisons tend to be flawed. So you get these comparisons about farming a certain game mode in an optimal speed (especially a new player to raids?) vs being unable to leave spawn.

Now frankly, I probably would have preferred active participation systems in WvW, but that would make things harder for most players.

The whole arbitrary designation is common-- namely,  only prefering certain content, and thus I should be excluded from having to do other content as much. This typically comes in the fashion of  "I only prefer pve-- it is unfair that I should have to ...".  However, this is actually a choice one makes on their own and is not an official designation outside of the wizard's valut. Namely put-- that's really the problem of the individual. And yes, this also applies to people who only want to WvW or PvP too.  You should play pve to get pve rewards as well, unless it is something that actively prevents you from being competitive in your own preferred game mode. Can Anet offer you help on the matter with cross game mode rewards? Sure, but don't pretend they have to.

Sometimes the designation takes the form of "The majority of players agrees with me". This is a frequently memed about conversation, because for some reason the majority of players always happen to agree with whoever's posting. Not only is this faulty projection, it is also probably copium. Consider that Anet has stats that we don't, and therefore if they design some things a certain way that you disagree with, chances are you are not in the "majority". That doesn't make it right, but there may just be enough evidence to suggest that since the game has been designed to require people to WvW for legendary acquisition for a signifigant amount  over the last 10 years, that would suggest that...

1.) WvW Requirements do not deter people enough from getting legendaries

or

2.) Legendaries are just not that big of a deal to your average player. While I have no hard evidence on the matter, it is probably safe to say that your average player does not farm gold at 40g/hour to make legendaries fast enough for this to be a problem (eg needing a legendary in a few weeks)

So here's a fact. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special:RunQuery/Base_ingredients_query&Base_ingredients[item]=Conflux&Base_ingredients[id]=9310501&Base_ingredients[discipline]=Mystic+forge&Base_ingredients[quantity]=1&_run

Conflux costs 1523 gold just in materials.  Let's take that 40g/hour that we know is difficult to do:

1523/40 = 38 hours just to farm materials.

 

Will you subtract that time spent in WvW to get that gold? After all, you do make some gold in WvW while doing that. But wait, we're also min-effort pipping, so that's just skirmish and reward tracks. 

https://fast.farming-community.eu/competitive/wvw-reward-track

The best reward tracks give around 16 gold, so a track that completes in 4 hours is 4g/hour. Yea the skirmish pip track also gives some which I estimate to be around the same. So I give it to be around 10g/hour. But we've also for some reason in this thread talking about players playing poorly and not being able to take anything with a group so this probably going to be even less.

My point is even if you were a capable farmer, attempting to max out tickets every week doesn't make any sense. It's not even sane for an average player. It wasn't even sane for me and WvW is most of my playtime.

"But, but, that means your average player is getting 40% less tickets!". (wood vs diamond)  No, that is not actually how it works and I am worried about how people do their taxes.

The higher rate is on the last 90 tickets in diamond, not on all the tickets you earn. And as I've pointed out above, your average casual is most likely not bottlenecked by tickets simply because they aren't grinding 15 hours (or even 7 for that matter).

Unlike many other people, I don't base this assumption on personal preference or what I'm capable of. I simply know that most people do not farm wealth at that fast of a rate because it simply  is physically very difficult.

I really do empathize with the concept that WvW, unlike raids or whatever, do just assume everyone is bottom of the barrel and there's no way to accelerate your progress to playing well. Oh wait, it is called tagging up, which awards extra pips. So maybe they did care. You can also easily get a group and do things more easier than that. Yes, it is 300 gold, but it's not just for WvW, and if 1523 gold is no big deal anyways then adding an overhead of about 20% is acceptable if you want speed.

Though I always found it hilarious that people who make legendaries somehow complain about cost, as if throwing 1500 gold on a glorified skin is easy. That's the #1 sign one is not endgame ready.

Oh and I'd like to add: Coal is also optional, since you can make 2 confluxes, but this does not apply the other way around. This means if we make confluxes easier to get, there will be much less reasons for some people to  do raids. Now how would that be fair? Raids are not in that great of a shape (the newest raid is 4 years old) and reducing incentive to do them wouldn't really help matters.

Edited December 15, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

15 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Now frankly, I probably would have preferred active participation systems in WvW, but that would make things harder for most players.

While that might be good thing for players who actually do play wvw, it might just degeneration the entire game mode to just zerging around for the best constant participation, and players will stop doing the little things, as they already have with repairing. Which just additionally confirms, most players only give two kittens about rewards, and nothing in regards to server wars and competition. They just want their pve champ train in wvw.

Like you said, there's players who don't fully understand the system and would just complain to get what they want rather than look at the big picture.

The real complaint they should have is not about changing something in another mode they don't even want to play in, but to try and get whatever is missing added to their game mode instead. I mean why do we have players come in here complaining about skirmish tickets and participation still, when they should just outright ask for legendary rings to be added to pve instead. Like they finally did for overworld legendary gear. Baffling.

[Chaba.5410]

The best ironic comedy to me is how Anet added a legendary armor set for open world.  The number of game modes in this game appear to be multiplying.

[ArchonWing.9480]

17 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

While that might be good thing for players who actually do play wvw, it might just degeneration the entire game mode to just zerging around for the best constant participation, and players will stop doing the little things, as they already have with repairing. Which just additionally confirms, most players only give two kittens about rewards, and nothing in regards to server wars and competition. They just want their pve champ train in wvw.

Like you said, there's players who don't fully understand the system and would just complain to get what they want rather than look at the big picture.

I think that applies to most suggestions. They may have unintended side effects that get disregarded because "I don't care".

It's just very hard to design a system that wouldn't get abused or ignore certain styles of play since a lot of roles in WvW are just not easy to measure and highly subjective. The Wizard's vault has some ideas that work-- you are rewarded for doing a thing, but you only get rewarded once a week for it.

20 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

The real complaint they should have is not about changing something in another mode they don't even want to play in, but to try and get whatever is missing added to their game mode instead. I mean why do we have players come in here complaining about skirmish tickets and participation still, when they should just outright ask for legendary rings to be added to pve instead. Like they finally did for overworld legendary gear. Baffling.

Well, that's just a hard to swallow truth-- yes, they want people to play WvW 🤣

[XenesisII.1540]

3 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

The Wizard's vault has some ideas that work-- you are rewarded for doing a thing, but you only get rewarded once a week for it.

 

Yeah I like that they added weeklies to both wvw and wizards vault. But it's things I can do in a few hours and be done for the week. I kinda wish there was a little more, maybe some repetitive ones like what warhammer had, like kill 50 priest, or kill 50 high elves, etc (those would just encourage even more zerg play in wvw). I dunno make weekly capture camp or tower ones repetitive.

But I do understand going too far in this direction could be overwhelming and off putting to players in general. 🤷‍♂️

[Firefly.5982]

As someone who started playing WvW only to get Conflux, fell in love with the game mode, is now almost exclusively playing WvW, and plays A TON of hours per week...while I don't think the amounts of tickets needed for legendaries is absolutely outrageous, it sure is pretty outrageous xD I don't think it needs to be adjusted a ton, but I definitely think it should be adjusted a little bit more. And I don't even mean in comparison to other ways to get legendaries in this game - I mean it standing on its own. It just takes so kitten long!

Personally, I'd be happy with getting the occasional 1-5 skirmish ticket drops from actively playing rather than always...just...one...single...ticket...ugh xD

But that wouldn't help people who have lives and can't play as much as me, so I do think raising weekly tickets a little would be the solution here.

[XenesisII.1540]

8 minutes ago, Firefly.5982 said:

But that wouldn't help people who have lives and can't play as much as me, so I do think raising weekly tickets a little would be the solution here.

Well... there's two other options that require less time.

Effort vs Time. You get to choose....

But I do think we should get something like repeatable weeklies. That may or may not encourage more k-trains or more bag farming, but something repeatable like warhammer online had for killing players/race/class, like kill 25 asuran, or kill 25 guardians, would be nice.

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 12/12/2023 at 7:42 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The word toxic lost all meaning.

It no longer seems to have anything to do with literally poisonous substances, and instead now it means "anything the speaker personally dislikes."

[Firefly.5982]

15 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Well... there's two other options that require less time.

Effort vs Time. You get to choose....

But I do think we should get something like repeatable weeklies. That may or may not encourage more k-trains or more bag farming, but something repeatable like warhammer online had for killing players/race/class, like kill 25 asuran, or kill 25 guardians, would be nice.

Obviously, people who can/want to play any game mode can just pick and choose whatever is easiest/fastest.

However, I believe each game mode should have its own set of leggies, and their aquisition should be fairly equally accessible.

Because 1. that's just good game design and 2. not every human being can access each game mode equally (not to even mention wanting to play them)

Kind of defeats the purpose if we just say 'If you don't like how it works in this game mode, go play a completely different game mode - whether you can or want to is irrelevant.'

Personally, I have made 3 weapons, all PvE accessories, fractal backpiece, 2 Confluxes, am almost done with 1 set Obsidian and 1 set WvW armor (3 more weeks ahhhh), and I will likely make another leggy armor set half Obsidian half WvW (because the tickets take forever xD) - I can't raid nor sPvP so I was forced to find a way to obtain legendaries that works for me and I did...and I would still like to see a slightly more balanced approach that is a little more accessible for other people 🙂

Edited January 7 by Firefly.5982

[DanAlcedo.3281]

16 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

It no longer seems to have anything to do with literally poisonous substances, and instead now it means "anything the speaker personally dislikes."

"I disagree with you"

TOXIC!!! ANET BAN !!! NOW !!

 

[XenesisII.1540]

11 minutes ago, Firefly.5982 said:

Obviously, people who can/want to play any game mode can just pick and choose whatever is easiest/fastest.

However, I believe each game mode should have its own set of leggies, and their aquisition should be fairly equally accessible.

Because 1. that's just good game design and 2. not every human being can access each game mode equally (not to even mention wanting to play them)

Kind of defeats the purpose if we just say 'If you don't like how it works in this game mode, go play a completely different game mode - whether you can or want to is irrelevant.'

Personally, I have made 3 weapons, all PvE accessories, fractal backpiece, 2 Confluxes, am almost done with 1 set Obsidian and 1 set WvW armor (3 more weeks ahhhh), and I will likely make another leggy armor set half Obsidian half WvW (because the tickets take forever xD) - I can't raid nor sPvP so I was forced to find a way to obtain legendaries that works for me and I did...and I would still like to see a slightly more balanced approach that is a little more accessible for other people 🙂

We keep having the same argument with this topic, people want the acquisitions to be on par with each other, but they never mention the effort required.

If you want it on par it will require more effort other than flipping a camp every 10 mins.

I wonder what people would think if they took away the participation and skirmish system and just handed out tickets through T3 OSR's and T3 lord kills. If that effort would be on par with raids. 🤔

[Lucy.3728]

You don't see the game as a game but as work.

I see the game as a game and am not after weekly limits. Didn't reach it last time and probably won't reach it this time. Going after limits is not playing for fun. it's working.

Why complain about it? Use ascended trinkets. Same stats. At some point you'll have the legendary one. It is meant to take time.

 

[Manasa Devi.7958]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

We keep having the same argument with this topic, people want the acquisitions to be on par with each other, but they never mention the effort required.

If you want it on par it will require more effort other than flipping a camp every 10 mins.

I wonder what people would think if they took away the participation and skirmish system and just handed out tickets through T3 OSR's and T3 lord kills. If that effort would be on par with raids. 🤔

The problem with requiring actual accomplishments in WvW is how you're always dependent on the state of the match. I've had a few weeks where I couldn't even try getting the Stonemist weekly because it was at tier 3 for my server every time I logged on during those weeks.

[Leaa.2943]

Meanwhile in PvE the two earrings and the collection i had to do involved a insane amount of time where i could not play WvW. One of the tasks where my friend got a item in 1 event in the bottom of bloodstone Fen. I had to do that event roughly 30 times or more before it dropped. That even spawned like once every 2 hours?

And then there was all the materials that i had to farm 250 of each on each PvE map. Some i could get from WvW when i just could not stand doing all that kitten over and over and over. 

And then there are the first generation of legendary weapons. Yeah you need a lot of worldcompletions for that. That is time i am not spending in wvw too.

 

So you see it all depends on perspective. But for some reason PvE players made 3000 post every week in forums and game chat how horrific it is for them and how they should not have to do this for legendaries. How often do you see wvw players making a post like that, because belive me there are many WvW players who dont want to set a foot in PvE and dont, and then there are those who do it when they must and if you want a legendary then that is what you must do. Why do PvE players whine so much more then WvW players do? 

 

Mind though i am doing PvE so i am not one of them but Vision and Aurora was one of the grinds where i felt i lost time from WvW and also grinded more then i wanted too, but it was for a legendary so i took it like a woman and did it and now i have them and it is great to have them in the end and that is why you do it. So suck it up and quit moaning. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

5 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Well... there's two other options that require less time.

Effort vs Time. You get to choose....

But I do think we should get something like repeatable weeklies. That may or may not encourage more k-trains or more bag farming, but something repeatable like warhammer online had for killing players/race/class, like kill 25 asuran, or kill 25 guardians, would be nice.

They could make you get an extra pip if you hit Diamond last week and also buff repeat diamond rewards.

That would probably make the FOMO crying even worse, but at least it'd be funny! But I really don't give a kitten when people complain about rewards pritorizing those that actually frequent the game mode.

So when people say to me "but you're just putting your own intrests first!", I'll just be like "well, aren't you too?"

Edited January 8 by ArchonWing.9480

[willow.8209]

regardless of conflux or any other goal, WvW reward structure is different to other game modes in that it's not just that more play gets more rewards (which is natural), but that there's a curve in the reward system (different to increasing rewards through mastery/ similar, as that's a reward that persists and you only have to earn it once).

I don't know of any other game content where your reward constantly varies based on how much you played that game mode last week. It discourages playing all the things, which the devs clearly want us to do. 

WvW tiered box reward system is like earning mastery new every week. 

 

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

They could make you get an extra pip if you hit Diamond last week and also buff repeat diamond rewards.

That would probably make the FOMO crying even worse, but at least it'd be funny! But I really don't give a kitten when people complain about rewards pritorizing those that actually frequent the game mode.

So when people say to me "but you're just putting your own intrests first!", I'll just be like "well, aren't you too?"

Imagine they did that, but also moved the minimum pip Commitment bonus from Wood to Gold 4th chest.
Ill have a VERY good laugh.

[ArchonWing.9480]

5 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

The problem with requiring actual accomplishments in WvW is how you're always dependent on the state of the match. I've had a few weeks where I couldn't even try getting the Stonemist weekly because it was at tier 3 for my server every time I logged on during those weeks.

Well, you don't need that to get 6/6 and getting more doesn't really do much  though yes it could be a dead weekly for some because it is way too specific. I think it would have been better be like Keep or SMC.

Unfortunately that set of weekly has been abandoned in favor of the wizard's vault and as a result is an unpolished mess that will most likely be forgotten about. Much like how it only counts ruins for the weekly but not shrines (though ever other iteration counts both)

[Firefly.5982]

20 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

We keep having the same argument with this topic, people want the acquisitions to be on par with each other, but they never mention the effort required.

If you want it on par it will require more effort other than flipping a camp every 10 mins.

I wonder what people would think if they took away the participation and skirmish system and just handed out tickets through T3 OSR's and T3 lord kills. If that effort would be on par with raids. 🤔

Lack of skirmish tickets is a problem for people who don't play WvW regularly, consistently, and long-term - people who started the game or game mode late, people who can't/don't want to play WvW, people who have very little time to play etc.

Tickets aren't a problem for people who have been playing WvW regularly for years because those people have way more tickets than they could ever use for legendaries.

I think weekly rewards are fine as is - IF we got a LITTLE more tickets for actively playing to allow people who actually actively play to farm some.

I also think rewards in GW2 are abyssmal, period (except the new Wizard's Vault which I think they did pretty well with!) so that's a whole other discussion to have.

But these are just my thoughts - I don't get to make any decisions and have no influence so it's not an argument.

I just get people's frustration with things taking forever for them - it's what kept me from working on legendaries for the first like 8 years of playing this game lol. You either get over that and decide you want to do it anyways, or you decide that legendaries are not for you. Because it's very clear that it will never be occasional, little playtime player friendly in GW2 to opbtain legendaries. Unless you are rich, of course...just like in the real world 😄

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Firefly.5982 said:

Lack of skirmish tickets is a problem for people who don't play WvW regularly, consistently, and long-term - people who started the game or game mode late, people who can't/don't want to play WvW, people who have very little time to play etc.

Ok but what do such players need tickets for? 

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Firefly.5982 said:

Lack of skirmish tickets is a problem for people who don't play WvW regularly, consistently, and long-term - people who started the game or game mode late, people who can't/don't want to play WvW, people who have very little time to play etc.

Tickets aren't a problem for people who have been playing WvW regularly for years because those people have way more tickets than they could ever use for legendaries.

I think weekly rewards are fine as is - IF we got a LITTLE more tickets for actively playing to allow people who actually actively play to farm some.

I also think rewards in GW2 are abyssmal, period (except the new Wizard's Vault which I think they did pretty well with!) so that's a whole other discussion to have.

But these are just my thoughts - I don't get to make any decisions and have no influence so it's not an argument.

I just get people's frustration with things taking forever for them - it's what kept me from working on legendaries for the first like 8 years of playing this game lol. You either get over that and decide you want to do it anyways, or you decide that legendaries are not for you. Because it's very clear that it will never be occasional, little playtime player friendly in GW2 to opbtain legendaries. Unless you are rich, of course...just like in the real world 😄

All that doesn't matter since everyone takes the same minimum amount of weeks to acquire the legendaries, whether you started the day legendaries came out, or starting today, (the time to acquire is actually less now). The big advantage veterans had/have is pips due to ranks, and I don't think that's unreasonable to give a bonus like that for those players who make this mode their main one, more pips and tickets have already been added for everyone.

The time to finish the track every week is a different story, but not so different if you go to the raids and only kill 3/5 of the bosses(I actually don't know how many raid bosses are in the game) for the week for comparison, at least in wvw you can sit afk for 10 mins watching netflix and then cap a camp to keep participation up(this is the stickler point as to why they can't increase tickets or speed up the track too much). More low level pips have been added already to make it easier for everyone.

Obviously a few things should be changed, like even out all the skirmish tickets in the track and not backload it. Adding anymore tickets should only be from active play(which they have done with weeklies and osr), no more into the passive track.

Legendaries ARE a long term project, in fact it should be the longest in the game considering it's the final piece of gear for that slot you will ever need in the game. But many players don't treat it as such, they chose the easiest yet longest time required one to do, then complain about it taking too long, they compare it to raids time to acquire, but most of the time they don't even go for the raids even if it's less time required. It's usually me me me me now now now I don't actually want to be here I just want to plunder your best reward without putting in the time or effort like the veterans did.

In any case, there's the pve overworld legendary now to get, that cuts out the wvw legendary gear out of the equation, pve players only need the rings from wvw, and really they don't since ascended is the same stats and there's an abundant amount of ways to get them in pve.

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 hours ago, Firefly.5982 said:

I just get people's frustration with things taking forever for them - it's what kept me from working on legendaries for the first like 8 years of playing this game lol. You either get over that and decide you want to do it anyways, or you decide that legendaries are not for you. Because it's very clear that it will never be occasional, little playtime player friendly in GW2 to opbtain legendaries. Unless you are rich, of course...just like in the real world

Well, you're starting to get it.

Legendaries are  vanity items that contributes  little to  overall power. They are meant as sinks with people with too much time or money.  People like to exaggerate their importance too much, which is why the balance of them isn't that important. The speed of raid legendaries is the outlier-- and given how the state of raids are, I would say just leave them be. If you really started out raids knowing everything to put it on full farm, you probably beat the game anyways.

It's very much like luxury useless stuff with marginal use irl too, like RGB everything on computers. But people on copium will try to tell you how it's essential either to justify their purchases or to envy others.

It is indeed difficult to shake off the urge to go for something just because it's a higher rank, but this game is just different.

Edited January 8 by ArchonWing.9480