teleportation is a problem.

[JinONplay.8905]

i really don't see any reason by giving almost every profession teleportation skills was a good idea, first is that not that it only makes those who does not have any in a massive disadvantage.

second is that it has too many professions that has it, so why not just give everyone teleportation? i mean to a point ANET loves it but didn't think otherwise on how it will be a nightmare to balance.

of course ANET will never touch teleportation skills because people who loves to abuse it will say "don't touch it"

in most other MMO I have played there have been some teleportation skills at least but not every class has it and for good reasons even BDO who has excellent combat movement gave every single class a fair bit of movement skills to keep up with fast type classes and didn't abuse the mention of teleportation.

Not only this type of utility can be problematic it also can and already being abused those who mains professions that has a lot of teleportation utility.

best obvious example would be deadeye, the amount of engage and disengage capability is pretty insane.

and before people say "deadeye is easy, deadeye is hard to use or deadeye is balanced" most players that fights against it as in 70% of the player base that fights against it find themselves frustrated.

Winning against one either means the player using deadeye has skill issue and other is that it takes too much effort to defeat one.

Professions that has no teleportation or at the very least does not pick a utility that has one is in a very disadvantageous state.

 immediately taking massive damage without any telegraph or very little time to react to it is also frustrating.

Guild wars 2 when it comes to movement is definitely in a sense "junky" and "clunky" to almost unresponsive 50% of the time.

For example Warrior, that has no teleportation (not counting the gun blade 5 considering not only it roots you but also only has 150 range) for a profession that is supposedly easy to use it is extremely hard to use against professions and monsters that has massive 1 second burst.

In all honesty of all the MMORPG i have played, Swtor, ESO, throne and liberty, archage, wow etc.

Even in korean or asian games which heavily featured fast and flashy movements gave every class or professions they make have movement skills that can keep up with other class or professions that heavily relies on speed.

 Guild wars 2 punishes slow professions and classes and honestly has become frustrating.

Don't get me wrong as  while guild wars 2 is fun and the combat system is unique than most MMOs, I find it being feeling on either slow engagements and fast engagements, one in a massive disadvantage. I don't feel like there's a middle ground unfortunately.

Of course I know that ANET will not replace teleportation as changing would drastically leave a problematic rebalancing and skill change nightmare, also as players who mains that has lots of teleportation utility would be very upset at them.

But hopefully ANET would make teleportation utility as "High risk Big reward" rather than "low risk still Big reward"

Like a 1 second animation telegraph to give players a chance to react against it. after all unlike other movement skills, teleportation can go through walls, being able to get high up on higher terrains as well as being able to teleport inside enemy  shield domes or wall barriers.

Hopefully ANET would take notice of this but of course I highly doubt it but still.

For now I'm going to play ESO and throne of Liberty for as a warrior lover feel very under utilized in guild wars 2.

Have fun Folks.

 

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

19 minutes ago, JinONplay.8905 said:

i really don't see any reason by giving almost every profession teleportation skills was a good idea, first is that not that it only makes those who does not have any in a massive disadvantage.

second is that it has too many professions that has it, so why not just give everyone teleportation? i mean to a point ANET loves it but didn't think otherwise on how it will be a nightmare to balance.

of course ANET will never touch teleportation skills because people who loves to abuse it will say "don't touch it"

in most other MMO I have played there have been some teleportation skills at least but not every class has it and for good reasons even BDO who has excellent combat movement gave every single class a fair bit of movement skills to keep up with fast type classes and didn't abuse the mention of teleportation.

Not only this type of utility can be problematic it also can and already being abused those who mains professions that has a lot of teleportation utility.

best obvious example would be deadeye, the amount of engage and disengage capability is pretty insane.

and before people say "deadeye is easy, deadeye is hard to use or deadeye is balanced" most players that fights against it as in 70% of the player base that fights against it find themselves frustrated.

Winning against one either means the player using deadeye has skill issue and other is that it takes too much effort to defeat one.

Professions that has no teleportation or at the very least does not pick a utility that has one is in a very disadvantageous state.

 immediately taking massive damage without any telegraph or very little time to react to it is also frustrating.

Guild wars 2 when it comes to movement is definitely in a sense "junky" and "clunky" to almost unresponsive 50% of the time.

For example Warrior, that has no teleportation (not counting the gun blade 5 considering not only it roots you but also only has 150 range) for a profession that is supposedly easy to use it is extremely hard to use against professions and monsters that has massive 1 second burst.

In all honesty of all the MMORPG i have played, Swtor, ESO, throne and liberty, archage, wow etc.

Even in korean or asian games which heavily featured fast and flashy movements gave every class or professions they make have movement skills that can keep up with other class or professions that heavily relies on speed.

 Guild wars 2 punishes slow professions and classes and honestly has become frustrating.

Don't get me wrong as  while guild wars 2 is fun and the combat system is unique than most MMOs, I find it being feeling on either slow engagements and fast engagements, one in a massive disadvantage. I don't feel like there's a middle ground unfortunately.

Of course I know that ANET will not replace teleportation as changing would drastically leave a problematic rebalancing and skill change nightmare, also as players who mains that has lots of teleportation utility would be very upset at them.

But hopefully ANET would make teleportation utility as "High risk Big reward" rather than "low risk still Big reward"

Like a 1 second animation telegraph to give players a chance to react against it. after all unlike other movement skills, teleportation can go through walls, being able to get high up on higher terrains as well as being able to teleport inside enemy  shield domes or wall barriers.

Hopefully ANET would take notice of this but of course I highly doubt it but still.

For now I'm going to play ESO and throne of Liberty for as a warrior lover feel very under utilized in guild wars 2.

Have fun Folks.

 

 

 

What classes that have ports currently do u believe shouldn't?

[magickthief.6492]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:19 PM, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

What classes that have ports currently do u believe shouldn't?

Warrior, necro, mesmer, ele, engi, ranger, and guardian

[willow.8209]

49 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Warrior, necro, mesmer, ele, engi, ranger, and guardian

teleports are thematically appropriate for mesmer, for instance.

what class are you playing that you're dissatisfied with the mobility of it? 

[Kuma.1503]

I don't have  any issue with every class having teleports. 

I DO have an issue with every class having an instant teleport. I prefer when each class  has their own unique mobility. 

I also prefer when the mobility has some kind of telegraph so you can play around the skill itself, not just what comes after.  

 

Some Example changes. (Not saying do exactly this. Just giving a general idea)

Necro

Spoiler

Sand Swell - No changes. Cool skill. Much flavor. Very RP. 

Wurm -  If there was a brief delay before the Necro ports away where the Wurm burrows through the ground, eats them, then takes them back to it's original location. That would be both more balanced, and much cooler. 

Spec. Walk - No Changes.  They need to move away from their original location through other means before they can gain any value out of it. 

Dark Path -> Dark Pursuit - First half additionally inflicts a brief immob with animation of literal spectral hand holding you still.  2nd half morphs the necro into an intangible shadow, quickly dashes toward the hand, and does a burst of damage/conditions upon arrival.

Mechanist

Spoiler

Shift Signet - Instead of a port. The Mech aims a tether at the player and joinks them toward it's location (hard code it not to whiff). 

Also let us ground target where the Mech walks and command it to stand still so we can micro this damned thing. 

Ele

Spoiler

Elementalist

Lightning Flash - The player does a very brief channel with obvious vfx and becomes a lightning bolt, instantly porting to the targeted location and inflicting stun+vuln to everything in a small radius. 

 

 

Edited January 4 by Kuma.1503

[bq pd.2148]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:59 PM, JinONplay.8905 said:

Winning against one

in what context are you trying to win? the entire post seems to be alot about other classes being able to kite a warrior for a while.

on the conquest maps most of the circles are nowhere near big enough to kite a warrior and for many builds it would be a very bad idea to remain in melee with a warrior, in that case the warrior does not need to kill their opponent to win within the context they meet. classes that have somewhat limited access to teleports using them to kite can delay their arrival at the next fight quite a bit too.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

6 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Warrior, necro, mesmer, ele, engi, ranger, and guardian

Ranger? It's ports are minimal and far from a issue, but sure give ranger more stealth in return to put it in line with pretty much every ranger in every other mmo not to mention dnd lol. Necro is a dark mage, ele a mage mesmer a mage which all suit ports. Warrior, engi and guardian I could see sure but I'm drawing a blank on what port warrior and engi has excluding leaps and charges.

Edited January 4 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Ranger? It's ports are minimal and far from a issue, but sure give ranger more stealth in return to put it in line with pretty much every ranger in every other mmo not to mention dnd lol. Necro is a dark mage, ele a mage mesmer a mage which all suit ports. Warrior, engi and guardian I could see sure but I'm drawing a blank on what port warrior and engi has excluding leaps and charges.

Warrior has Flicker Step on the Gunsaber, it let's you reposition while charging the slash. It has 2 charges and a very short range.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flicker_Step

Engineer has Shift Signet on Mechanist, it's literally just a shadowstep and stunbreak with with cleanse, and a move speed passive.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shift_Signet

Edited January 4 by Remus Darkblight.1673

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 1/2/2024 at 3:59 PM, JinONplay.8905 said:

teleportation can go through walls, being able to get high up on higher terrains as well as being able to teleport inside enemy  shield domes or wall barriers.

Speaking as a Mesmer main, none of that is supposed to happen. It's supposed to be unobstructed line-of-sight, with very little elevation change.

What you describe here is either a bug, an exploit or both.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The only change to teleports i like to see is only allow teleports to target when you have line of sight. No teleporting threw wall, and up different level plans unless los. 

Edited January 4 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Sahne.6950]

17 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

The only change to teleports i like to see is only allow teleports to target when you have line of sight. No teleporting threw wall, and up different level plans unless los. 

i can not wait to not be able to Lightningflash, because there is a Cricket on the ground.  🦗

i mean.. you are right....   but you also know how bad gw2 is when it comes to "No Line of sight".

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

For those that didn't play GW1, when assassin was introduced and thus everyone got access to shadowsteps the game competitive modes began to crumble.

Being able to bypass positioning, bodyblock, overextendedness marked the beginning of the end.

That being said, while devs carried the same mistakes to gw2, this game is just too long gone, no one gives a rat's kitten and no one will change anything.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

19 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Speaking as a Mesmer main, none of that is supposed to happen. It's supposed to be unobstructed line-of-sight, with very little elevation change.

What you describe here is either a bug, an exploit or both.

It depends on the skill and location, most teleport skills behave as you say, unobstructed line of sight with little elevation change. Basically if you can't walk there you can't teleport there.

There are some minor and major exceptions to this though and it is also very inconsistent. An example of a minor exception is being able to shadowstep up through certain ceilings to a floor above or up certain cliffs in WvW. These give you a much greater advantage when disengaging enemies as the total "walk distance" that you teleport is often far greater than the maximum range of the skill (1,200 in most cases). These are inconsistent though as some very small cliffs or rocks, and perhaps most notably the stairs on WvW walls are completely obstructed to these skills despite being completely walkable. A major exception is something like the necromancer spectral walk, which can even teleport you back through walls or back up cliffs from what would otherwise be a fatal fall.

None of these appear to be bugs, as they have been in the game with their current implementation more or less since launch.

Whether or not teleportation itself is a problem is one argument, but how it is currently implemented is certainly too inconsistent. If we're going to have teleports it should be clear what is a valid teleport and what is not across all skills. If I can teleport up a cliff, through a wall, or over a gap of a certain size it should stand to reason that I can teleport up or across any smaller cliff, wall, or gap. At the very least if I can reach somewhere by directly walking and/or jumping alone, I should be able to teleport there.

[Teknomancer.4895]

2 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

Whether or not teleportation itself is a problem is one argument, but how it is currently implemented is certainly too inconsistent. If we're going to have teleports it should be clear what is a valid teleport and what is not across all skills. If I can teleport up a cliff, through a wall, or over a gap of a certain size it should stand to reason that I can teleport up or across any smaller cliff, wall, or gap.

The problem is, that's not a "how it is currently implemented" thing. Teleports have always been unpredictable and inconsistent. Here's a video I recorded as a bug report all the way back in late 2014 demonstrating that (check out the huge jump around 2:10):

A few months after HoT dropped I left the game for a period of 8 years, and returned only last Summer. I got back into the game and found that teleports had been nerfed, limiting them to the LoS-no-jumping standard they exhibit now, for the most part. It's frustrating when I can't Blink over the tiniest gap, and OMG there's a pebble in the way, "no valid path to target."

So what you're talking about sounds like more of the weirdness in my video above -- inconsistent and probably exploitable depending on the map.

Edited January 5 by Teknomancer.4895
time note

[Stand The Wall.6987]

teleports don't belong in mmo combat cuz they negate kiting, range, and the general flow of combat becomes skewed and impossible to manage from a dev perspective

Edited January 5 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Teknomancer.4895]

42 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

teleports don't belong in mmo combat

Be that as it may, this game shipped with it so that's not really relevant.

Barn door open, horse gone.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

18 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Be that as it may, this game shipped with it so that's not really relevant.

Barn door open, horse gone.

i guess that makes your comment less then relevant

[Teknomancer.4895]

35 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i guess that makes your comment less then relevant

My comment takes into account the fact that the game shipped with teleportation: core, from launch. I even posted a demonstration video indicating that the issues being raised are not new.

You, on the other hand, chose to type a single line of ungrammatical whining about how it shouldn't exist at all for an entire gaming category, eleven years after this game released with teleport included. And despite your assertion that teleport has no place in MMO's, a couple minutes with a search engine reveals that there are quite a lot of them that have it.

One of us is engaging with the content as it already exists as a way to evaluate and improve it. The other is some inarticulate rando on the Interwebz who thinks it shouldn't exist in any game in the first place.

You have a very odd definition of "relevant."

[Kuya.6495]

In general classes that have teleports either have low hp and/or low armor value, which I think is fair. You can instantly kill a guardian, ele, mesmer, thief under the right circumstances. The one exception I can think of is herald, and Shiro herald was indeed a terror in spvp for quite some time.

Edited January 6 by Kuya.6495

[remorseless.6352]

Buff deadeye

[maxwelgm.4315]

It's no consolation but at least the extremely old and stale PvP maps we have contain lots of no-port zones that can at least be used against offensive teleportation (e.g the cannons in Capricorn). Just run up a no-port zone and watch the DH hammer 4 into nothing while the No Path to Target message pops up on their screen. Defensive teleportation is still annoying but that does require line of sight to take you up a ledge such as blink or mesmer staff 2.