Legendary Relics are Coming Soon

[Ashantara.8731]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's actually a very good example why this design is bad. Convergences on its own are not a good content. Their only use is for Legendary Armor. Pushing people to do a content like that 10 times just to unlock a relic is ridiculous. I'd really hope that if a content will be used in the future for such an unlock,it will at least be profitable for everyone, instead of being useful only for a small group of players, and only for limited time.

I agree. More diverse and generally profitable content is much more enjoyable than anything Rift related they've provided with SotO so far.

Just wanted to add that the Relic unlock system will be relevant to everyone, whether they own a Legendary Relic or prefer to use Exotic ones.

Edited January 26 by Ashantara.8731

[kiroho.4738]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If a content becomes obsolete and unplayed, there are likely some very good reasons for that, tied to its initial design.

I mean, all achievements and collections are designed that way. Their design is totally fine, but they don't work if already have the reward.

 

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Adding gear grind would not make that content better, it would only camouflage the real issues.

Look at core and Soto relics. For how many do you have to grind actually?
I count 0.

Unlockind new gear such as stats, runes and sigils were always part of new expansions. Doing the same with relics is nothing new, nor is it "grind".
The descision to not unlock all relic effects on release for legy owner might be a matter of taste, but for me personally it's a good descision.
This way you won't skip content, just because you already got the reward because of a design descision made 11 years ago.
 

[Justine.6351]

Made my legendary rune on non-soto account, sounds like I will get access to soto exclusive relics through legendary relic but nothing beyond that?

[Gibson.4036]

I'm not a fan of the fact that legendary relics won't be an alternate way to access relics that are locked behind content I'm not interested in doing.

Edited January 26 by Gibson.4036

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Look at core and Soto relics. For how many do you have to grind actually?

I count 0.

You must have missed Nayos given as an example above. And it's not the only one.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Look at core and Soto relics. For how many do you have to grind actually?
I count 0.

Should probably state your definition of grind for the class.  

As for me, 'grind' implies more than the traditional 'unlock new e-waifu by playing 1000 hours' grind from something like Genshin you may have been thinking of.  

Grind in GW2 for me is slogging through the same copy/paste meta events / convergences / etc. to get relics (ex: the Inner Nayos / Behind Demon Lines / etc. ones).  For others, grind may be slogging through a WvW or sPvP reward track to get the Amnytas boxes.

EDIT: 

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You must have missed Nayos given as an example above. And it's not the only one.

Beat me to it as I was typing 😂.

Edited January 26 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If a content becomes obsolete and unplayed, there are likely some very good reasons for that, tied to its initial design. Adding gear grind would not make that content better, it would only camouflage the real issues.

Using rewards to keep people playing content long past its glory days is pretty normal. I would prefer that content be as fun thousandth time I play it as it was the first, but Ive yet to see such in any game and doubt that it is even possible. I have repeated content for the rewards though.

And, again, I am not arguing for this, just think that might be the why behind it.

[Grunim.9034]

@Rubi Bayer.8493  Thank you for the legendary relics post.  There are currently 40 distinct relics that are part of the rare collection "Relics--Core Set 1".  Will legendary relics come with all 40 Relics--Core Set 1 relic effects unlocked?
 

[kiroho.4738]

53 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Should probably state your definition of grind for the class

I mean... there is a definition of "grind". That's not a matter of opinions.
Just google it.

[Astralporing.1957]

27 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Using rewards to keep people playing content long past its glory days is pretty normal. I would prefer that content be as fun thousandth time I play it as it was the first, but Ive yet to see such in any game and doubt that it is even possible. I have repeated content for the rewards though.

And, again, I am not arguing for this, just think that might be the why behind it.

Rewards yes. Bad reward structure with no longevity is indeed one of the reasons why some content might get abandoned. Gear grind however is not it, it's just tax on fun, and extends the usefulness of the content only slightly.

Case in point: SotO is not rewarding and has no longevity built in. No, legendary armor is not it, as it is one time attempt - once people will get their armor sets, they will move on (that in addition of it not being a reward for everyone).  And those that might come in the future will end up on mostly empty map, as everyone else has long moved on. Gear grind the relic style would not help this at all.

Additionally, my opinion is that rewards should be in addition to fun and engagement, not try to completely replace it. Not to mention, if Anet is so afraid that people will not be motivated to play the new expansion even once, without the additional push of Relics (and possibly other stuff in the future), then we have a major problem here.

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Grunim.9034 said:

@Rubi Bayer.8493  Thank you for the legendary relics post.  There are currently 40 distinct relics that are part of the rare collection "Relics--Core Set 1".  Will legendary relics come with all 40 Relics--Core Set 1 relic effects unlocked?
 

According to the blog post it will cover all Core and SotO relics.

[kiroho.4738]

59 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You must have missed Nayos given as an example above. And it's not the only one.

Doing one meta event including 5 events is no grind...
At this point it's kinda funny how easy people in GW2 call something a grind. It only shows how grindless the game is in general.

I'll give you a free one. Relic of Nourys requires doing10 Convergences. For GW2 measures that could be seen as somewhat a grind.
With that it's 1 relic you have to "grind". Not a huge number.

[Ashen.2907]

On 1/25/2024 at 7:07 PM, GalenWolffit.3842 said:

False equivalency, but this is the internet so who cares, right?

This isn't "ANet said they would do one thing, they decided to do something different due to factors outside their control".  This is "ANet said if PLAYERS did something many times, ANet would reward them, then decided due to factors WITHIN their control, to reward everyone who did the thing even a SINGLE time - and give nothing extra to those who did the thing many times as originally promised".

Imagine you told your SO that you would pick up dinner at their favorite restaurant, if they did something for you that they didn't really WANT to do, but were fine doing in exchange for their favorite dinner.  Then after your SO did the thing for you, you told them "Oh, you didn't actually need to do that thing you didn't really want to do; I'm going to not only buy your favorite dinner for you, I'm going to buy dinner for anyone on the block who did something nice for me this month".

You might find yourself sleeping on the couch, if you pulled a stunt like that.

Disagree about the false equivalency, but its the internet so differing opinions are to be expected.

As to the rest of it, I also disagree that the factors influencing the decision were within ANet's control. The decision was made in the aftermath of an absolute flood of complaints, player feedback, games media coverage, and so on. All of those are factors that, I believe, influenced the decision to be more, not less, generous than previously described. I am very critical of ANet these days. Very little of what theyve done over the past couple of years has been a positive in my opinion, but responding to customer complaints about the negative impact of one of their changes to the game by being more generous with compensation and reducing the overall net impact on the player base as a whole is not one of the bad moves in my opinion.

Personally I still think that the entire relic system is a net negative, but perhaps the relative ease of access to a legendary relic will lessen the negative even if it will still likely be a lessening of the GW2 experience for me.

Edited January 27 by Ashen.2907

[Omega.6801]

2 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

I mean... there is a definition of "grind". That's not a matter of opinions.
Just google it.

"to make something into small pieces or a powder by pressing between hard surfaces"
Doesn't really apply to videogames, strange.

But in all honesty. Grind means different things to different people. In GW2, a game that generally doesn't do the kind of repetitive chores you see in other games, i.e. do this event 1000 times or pay 50 bucks to progress, grind can mean do a meta 50 times. For someone who really doesn't like WvW, having to do the reward track for the GoB once is a grind, even if it's only like 8 hours. For me, in this discusion, it's more of a conceptual grind I am talking about. The kind of grind that exists relativ to "no grind at all" as you ca see in my example I wrote a few posts back with the regular legendaries.
I'll repeat it, don't worry. The legy scepter I crafted ten years ago has never lost its relevance and never will (assuming ANet doesn't change how legys work). If I take a five year break today and ANet releases twenty new stat combinations, it will be ready the day I come back, not a single minute of playtime required, I can jump right back in and can play what I want to play. That is not the case with these relics. If I take a five year break today and ANet releases 150 new relics in the mean time. The day I come back, I will have to "grind" through five years worth of content before I can get to what I want be playing. Content that might be buggy. Content that may be dead by now because it's unopular. Content that I may not want to play because I may not like it.

[Ashen.2907]

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

rewards should be in addition to fun and engagement

Sure, but this is modern day ANet we are speaking of. Their ability to accomplish fun and engaging in PvE has not been evident in years (IMO). There is a reason I transitioned from being a PvEer who dabbled in WvW to almost entirely a WvWer over the past few years. So ANet will continue to dribble tiny portions of PvE content that meets a bare minimum standard to even qualify as content with rewards, some grindier than others, and sunk cost to keep people playing it.

 

And, again, I am not claiming that it will work, is a good idea, or even the opposite. I am just suggesting that I think that it is part of the why, that perhaps ANet thinks that it could help.

Edited January 26 by Ashen.2907

[SweetPotato.7456]

4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I think that part of the point of tying new relics to content is to prevent that content from becoming obsolete or unplayed. The relic unlocks may not keep that content as fully populated as it will be at release but it may make it easier to find or make groups and justify maintenance of the content.

Ot at least that is what I think ANet is hoping for. Prolonged relevance of content.

Not saying that I agree or approve.

my evil minds tells me, giving players who crafted 1 legendary rune a free legendary relic ensures these players will buy the future expansion, because logically a company has no reason to want to make their player base unhappy by not following what they promised, secondly reducing the requirement from 6/7 legendary to one is so drastic, the early announcement will make more players to craft that one legendary, I think one month is enough time to net in more players. First and foremost a company needs to make money. so. there it is.

However, I am happy I am getting a free legendary Relic. Anything extra, I will take with thanks too. 
 

 

5 hours ago, LilyStarflame.5738 said:

My girlfriend came up with a great idea to placate the people who made 7 legendary runes and want compensation: a mini legendary rune for having 7. It could either float around like the mini essence of luck, or preferably, roll along the ground after you. Or flop from one side, onto the edge then onto the other side. (though if you did add this there should probably be a legendary sigil mini too, for having 8.) This would also counteract the slightly bad feeling of not getting a visual effect for these legendaries.

6 legendary runes should also get it if this goes through.

Edited January 26 by SweetPotato.7456

[idpersona.3810]

3 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

6 legendary runes should also get it if this goes through.

Maybe the 7th rune gets you a second aquatic/underwater version of the mini. 

[kiroho.4738]

2 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

"to make something into small pieces or a powder by pressing between hard surfaces"
Doesn't really apply to videogames, strange.

But in all honesty. Grind means different things to different people. In GW2, a game that generally doesn't do the kind of repetitive chores you see in other games, i.e. do this event 1000 times or pay 50 bucks to progress, grind can mean do a meta 50 times. For someone who really doesn't like WvW, having to do the reward track for the GoB once is a grind, even if it's only like 8 hours. For me, in this discusion, it's more of a conceptual grind I am talking about. The kind of grind that exists relativ to "no grind at all" as you ca see in my example I wrote a few posts back with the regular legendaries.

I see that some people use the word "grind" for everything that requires a bit more work.

 

8 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

I'll repeat it, don't worry. The legy scepter I crafted ten years ago has never lost its relevance and never will (assuming ANet doesn't change how legys work). If I take a five year break today and ANet releases twenty new stat combinations, it will be ready the day I come back, not a single minute of playtime required, I can jump right back in and can play what I want to play. That is not the case with these relics. If I take a five year break today and ANet releases 150 new relics in the mean time. The day I come back, I will have to "grind" through five years worth of content before I can get to what I want be playing. Content that might be buggy. Content that may be dead by now because it's unopular. Content that I may not want to play because I may not like it.

I see what you mean.
But the question is, is this good or bad?
I mean, if you want to play certain builds (like meta builds) you will only want certain relics, like 3 or 4. Not all 150.
If you want other relics, you can just get them. You don't need to get all 150.

If you don't like the content or don't find people, it's like any other reward in the end. If you want Obsidian weapons, but don't like PvP/WvW, you either have to play it anyway or have to accept that you won't get that reward.

 

My personal experience with EoD (as someone with full legy gear) was, that anything in terms of gear was boring, because I had access to everythign immediately after release.
I saw my friends doing this and that event and stuff for collections, but I just had no reason to do them.
Getting an advance for great work (like a legendary) is good, but missing content because you already have the rewards is kind of a let down.

 

 

[Ashen.2907]

8 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

missing content because you already have the rewards is kind of a let down.

Wouldnt that be better solved with exciting new rewards rather than taking functionality away from an old tier of gear? 

And for what its worth I feel pretty much the same way any time I see ascended items as rewards or have an armor/weapon box drop.

[GalenWolffit.3842]

13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They did not invalidate what they promised. They offered more than they promised. Honestly, i have no idea why you get annoyed for getting more, when what you really should be upset about is the part of the message you are ignoring (the one where they announce that Legendary Relic will not be a true legendary).

Maybe, but as it seems neither does Anet, so it evens out.

I'm not annoyed at getting more.  I'm annoyed that when they promised they would reward people who went the extra mile, they instead are rewarding everyone who DIDN'T go the extra mile with more.  I actually LIKE working for my rewards, unlike some people in these forums.  It wouldn't have bothered me to work for the Leg Relic, and it doesn't bother me that I will have to work to unlock new stats as they come available.  I ENJOY doing that, and would be doing whatever those new achievements are anyway, regardless of getting a new relic stat or not.

 

[Omega.6801]

4 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

I see what you mean.
But the question is, is this good or bad?
I mean, if you want to play certain builds (like meta builds) you will only want certain relics, like 3 or 4. Not all 150.
If you want other relics, you can just get them. You don't need to get all 150.

If you don't like the content or don't find people, it's like any other reward in the end. If you want Obsidian weapons, but don't like PvP/WvW, you either have to play it anyway or have to accept that you won't get that reward.

 

My personal experience with EoD (as someone with full legy gear) was, that anything in terms of gear was boring, because I had access to everythign immediately after release.
I saw my friends doing this and that event and stuff for collections, but I just had no reason to do them.
Getting an advance for great work (like a legendary) is good, but missing content because you already have the rewards is kind of a let down.

 

 

It's neither good nor bad. It just is what it is and people have their feelings about it. In the end ANet will release whatever they will release. I feel bad about it because I would prefer it to be different for the reasons I have posted in this thread. You probably feel positive to irrelevant about it if I understood you posts about correctly.

Were it only about the let's say 10/150 relics that I actually needed I wouldn't even bother with legendaries in the first place. I would just get the ones I need and that's it. But I want them all. I know, that is my choice and with that choice comes, that I have to do what is necessary. So far, crafting the legendary was one way of doing it. This is no longer an option. And I do not like that.
Besides lgendaries I have other carrots I go after, AP being probably the biggest. So if there's an achievement for it, I will probably do it anyway. Also, if it's fun I will probably do it a few times. For others it's skins or titles. ANet could put any kind of reward to their content and keep their legendaries legendary, it wouldn't change anything.
I also have full legendary everything and my experience for EoD was different. Sure I didn't have to unlock the two new stats they gave us (granted having a ritu backpiece early was very convenient but ANet just slept on that one). But I still went for AP, skins, collections, story, map completion, masteries, the new legendaries and later the variants. I never felt like I missed out on content. Same with PoF. Did I have to unlock grieving stats or the rune of the firebrand? No. Was I still busy for more than 6 months doing AP, skins and so on and so forth? Yes. Legendary gear is a privilege, but it's one you earned. And while we don't know yet how much the relic will cost and for now it feels like it's free. One or two years down the line it will feel less worth because you will spend 1k gold(guessing from how much trinkets cost now) for a legendary that will need maintainance every three months.

[Pifil.5193]

44 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Maybe the 7th rune gets you a second aquatic/underwater version of the mini. 

You mean a legendary rune with snorkel and goggles maybe? Sign me up!

[Linken.6345]

46 minutes ago, GalenWolffit.3842 said:

I'm not annoyed at getting more.  I'm annoyed that when they promised they would reward people who went the extra mile, they instead are rewarding everyone who DIDN'T go the extra mile with more.  I actually LIKE working for my rewards, unlike some people in these forums.  It wouldn't have bothered me to work for the Leg Relic, and it doesn't bother me that I will have to work to unlock new stats as they come available.  I ENJOY doing that, and would be doing whatever those new achievements are anyway, regardless of getting a new relic stat or not.

 

So safe to say you would have done 7 legendary runes anyway so were is the problem?

They get something for less work then I put in but would have done anyway since I enjoy doing it dont sound like a good reason mate..

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

If you don't like the content or don't find people, it's like any other reward in the end.

That's the difference, i guess. I do not see Relics as rewards. I see gearing up as preparation i need to get done before i'll start playing for rewards (and fun). What they are about to do, i see as the very "preparing to have fun" thing they once promised GW2 will not be about.

[idpersona.3810]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

So safe to say you would have done 7 legendary runes anyway so were is the problem?

They get something for less work then I put in but would have done anyway since I enjoy doing it dont sound like a good reason mate..

At least for me, I had 6 legendary runes. I wasn't planning on getting around to the 7th until much much later (possibly years). I went ahead and crafted the 7th based on a very specific answer Rubi gave, which said that 7/7 runes was needed for full compensation. That was their specific (official) answer to a very specific question about the difference between 6/7 and 7/7.

And again, I'm not angry about this. Just explaining my frustration with the announcement.

Edited January 27 by idpersona.3810