Legendary Relics are Coming Soon

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

Hasn't it always been the case that you can't use attributes for your legendaries from expansions you don't own? Why would it be different for relics? 

Actually, no, it hasn't (even though that one restriction would indeed have sense).

Locking stats beyond expansion owned is however one thing. What anet does is to try to lock them beyond completing specific content. And that's significantly more restrictive.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

55 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Actually, no, it hasn't (even though that one restriction would indeed have sense).

Locking stats beyond expansion owned is however one thing. What anet does is to try to lock them beyond completing specific content. And that's significantly more restrictive.

It certainly was at some time. I can't find when this was changed, and I've owned every expansion since their release, so I have no personal experience with this issue. I can find this though on the wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Legendary_weapon#HoT_Stats_on_Accounts_without_HoT%3F

I have no issue with locking anything new, and I mean anything, behind completing content. It adds to a game for me.

[Ashantara.8731]

Has been answered above. 😉

Edited February 2 by Ashantara.8731

[Astralporing.1957]

22 minutes ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

It certainly was at some time. I can't find when this was changed, and I've owned every expansion since their release, so I have no personal experience with this issue. I can find this though on the wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Legendary_weapon#HoT_Stats_on_Accounts_without_HoT%3F

I have no issue with locking anything new, and I mean anything, behind completing content. It adds to a game for me.

Until the Summer 2019 patch there was no automatic system of checking what attributes should be available on any piece of gear. Each attribute set had to be manually added by devs to stat selection. That was as true of exotics and ascended with stat selection feature as it was of Legendaries (i.e. at some point Anet forgot to add Seraph stats to Legendaries, and it took quite a long time before they realized it and fixed that mistake). This means that before that 2019 patch it was simply not possible for a legendary piece to have a different stat selection based on who its owner was. And after that patch went live, legendaries (unlike all other stat select gear) automatically got access to stats from all expansions, regardless of expac ownership of their owner. As such, i strongly believe that whoever made that comment on wiki didn't actually check it out themselves.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Until the Summer 2019 patch there was no automatic system of checking what attributes should be available on any piece of gear. Each attribute set had to be manually added by devs to stat selection. That was as true of exotics and ascended with stat selection feature as it was of Legendaries (i.e. at some point Anet forgot to add Seraph stats to Legendaries, and it took quite a long time before they realized it and fixed that mistake). This means that before that 2019 patch it was simply not possible for a legendary piece to have a different stat selection based on who its owner was. And after that patch went live, legendaries (unlike all other stat select gear) automatically got access to stats from all expansions, regardless of expac ownership of their owner. As such, i strongly believe that whoever made that comment on wiki didn't actually check it out themselves.

Learn something new every day.  The lesson here is that I might now be making legendaries on my core only account. 😁

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Please add Relic of Divinity, +10% health to the selectable options. It is still missing after it was removed from the Rune of Divinity with the expansion release.

[firedragon.8953]

On 2/2/2024 at 10:56 PM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Reliquary is the word you want here.

PERFECT! Love it!

[Russ.2635]

I have to say the time limitation is ridiculous. I didn't start day 1, Now the cost of the charms alone is prohibitive at 500 to 1,000 gold. So basically I am SOL since I don't have that kind of gold and I already invested time and gold in some of the ingredients. Plus I have no idea what the cost or requirements are going to be once the initial release of freebies happens. Thanks for screwing me over.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Russ.2635 said:

I have to say the time limitation is ridiculous. I didn't start day 1, Now the cost of the charms alone is prohibitive at 500 to 1,000 gold. So basically I am SOL since I don't have that kind of gold and I already invested time and gold in some of the ingredients. Plus I have no idea what the cost or requirements are going to be once the initial release of freebies happens. Thanks for screwing me over.

Nobody is "screwing you over" when you're not getting compensation for something you didn't have or didn't do.

Edited February 4 by Sobx.1758

[Russ.2635]

Very helpful, thanks! Reread before you comment. I am willing to put in the time and energy but can't because of the ridiculous time constraint they put on it (33 days) without keeping an eye on what it did to the prices at the Trading Post. So next time you want to comment and say you're not getting screwed perhaps you should try reading with comprehension.

[Ashantara.8731]

58 minutes ago, Russ.2635 said:

I have to say the time limitation is ridiculous. I didn't start day 1, Now the cost of the charms alone is prohibitive at 500 to 1,000 gold. So basically I am SOL since I don't have that kind of gold and I already invested time and gold in some of the ingredients. Plus I have no idea what the cost or requirements are going to be once the initial release of freebies happens. Thanks for screwing me over.

It clearly shows that ANet had no clue what to do about owners of Legendary Runes. Introducing a Legendary Relic was obviously a spontaneous decision following the many complaints, but they had no idea at the time how to do it. Now that not much time was left, they decided to go for the least complicated solution, that's why the announcement came on such a short note.

[Sobx.1758]

35 minutes ago, Russ.2635 said:

Very helpful, thanks! Reread before you comment. I am willing to put in the time and energy but can't because of the ridiculous time constraint they put on it (33 days) without keeping an eye on what it did to the prices at the Trading Post. So next time you want to comment and say you're not getting screwed perhaps you should try reading with comprehension.

The "time constraint" started when they announced the rune change, introduction of the relics and subsequent "there will be some compensation, more about it at later date" information. It is not some bonus event for you, it's a compensation for people who got part of their legendary runes' ability stripped and repackaged into relics.
If you bother taking a second to think about it, you'll realise the actual "fair" timeframe they should have given for that compensation isn't "in 30 days from now", but around the time they released relics that took away part of the legendary rune functionality. After that moment everyone knows exactly what they're getting when they're crafting the runes. Nobody took anything from you and you're not "screwed" in any way -you literally have longer than you should have.

Edited February 5 by Sobx.1758

[WRay.2391]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The "time constraint" started when they announced the rune change, introduction of the relics and subsequent "there will be some compensation, more about it at later date" information. It is not some bonus event for you, it's a compensation for people who got part of their legendary runes' ability stripped and repackaged into relics.
If you bother taking a second to think about it, you'll realise the actual "fair" timeframe they should have given for that compensation isn't "in 30 days from now", but around the time they released relics that took away part of the legendary rune functionality. After that moment everyone knows exactly what they're getting when they're crafting the runes. Nobody took anything from you and you're not "screwed" in any way -you literally have longer than you should have.

This. The only problem that could remain is people in process of crafting... Like you bought majority of materials, and suddenly runes became significantly less useful, materials de-valued etc. This should be addressed by giving progress towards legendary relic for each rune. But they decided to go lazy way too just give every rune owner a semi legendary relic for free, which created pressure on TP prices, didn't satisfy people that wanted real legendary relic and created concern about GW2 direction in terms of legendary gear status. A big L IMO, Anet should do better.

[Geralt.7519]

I made all 7 runes a long time ago (and sigils), I didn't buy SoTO and patiently waited for Anet to clarify what they meant by "significant progress" towards the relic.

Now I don't mind them giving basically everyone a free relic, tho I would have liked some recognition for those who went the extra mile of crafting a full set.

What I really don't like is the relic will stop behaving like a real legendary.

I mean, one of the main selling points of this game (and the biggest advantage of legendaries) has always been no FOMO no gear grinds.

For the last 10 years, you could take breaks however long from the game, come back and jump straight into new content without having to worry about getting proper gear/stats first. It seems this is changing.

First the jade bot, then a new relic slot + devaluing of legendaries, what will be next?

If this is the new trend, I guess I'm not their target player anymore.

[Loctar.3987]

13 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It clearly shows that ANet had no clue what to do about owners of Legendary Runes. Introducing a Legendary Relic was obviously a spontaneous decision following the many complaints, but they had no idea at the time how to do it. Now that not much time was left, they decided to go for the least complicated solution, that's why the announcement came on such a short note.

if that's the case and you're right it's more than amateurish especially for someone as experienced as Anet

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, Loctar.3987 said:

if that's the case and you're right it's more than amateurish especially for someone as experienced as Anet

Nah, i'd say that it's pretty much typical of them. Well, except that usually the reversal of a spontaneous (but not well though out) design takes them way longer than this time.

[Teknomancer.4895]

22 hours ago, Russ.2635 said:

without keeping an eye on what it did to the prices at the Trading Post

This is basically what they do, though. Sudden price spikes due to some announcement seems to be relatively routine tbh.

[Jeydra.4386]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:11 PM, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

The tasks we had to complete to unlock relics were trivial and barely required you to go out of your way to complete the content to get them. If you don't complete the story even once, or do the new maps on just one character, why are you even playing the game? I spend most of my time in WvW, and even I do PvE content every once in a while. Besides, the relics could be obtained through reward tracks anyway, one per relic. Also not a grind, as it will come from just playing your preferred game mode in a matter of hours, not weeks.

Who are you to dictate how other people play the game? If they are only interested in PvP/WvW, why shouldn't they be able to play those game modes? What would you say if there were a relic which requires you to play 20 PvP matches to unlock? Furthermore, at 15 minutes per game, it takes only ~5 hours to do 20 matches, or about the same as 10 convergences. What if the relic takes 120 matches to unlock? Note 120 matches is not a grind for PvP players, who play at least 120 games every season to reach the leaderboard.

"If you don't complete the story even once ..." - well guess what, some people don't care, and your preference for how to play the game has no impact on them, any more than their opinion that PvE is stupidly boring affect your enjoyment of the format.

"Why are you even playing the game?" - because the other modes are fun.

Finally I am not sure how aware you are of when these things matter, but you could e.g. be in some instanced content and then someone goes "did you know that you can use Relic of Resistance to prevent the fear effect of the Zhaitan scream" and since the group is struggling with that mechanic, you figure you'll make the swap. Then you find out you need to do 10 convergences before you can make the swap. Huzzah. It don't matter if it takes hours or weeks to do 10 convergences. By the time you're done, the group has already disbanded.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

PvP/WvW players have always been able to get Relics via their Reward track and skip the achievements. Only PvE players are required some effort to unlock access via achievements. If a Relic needs PvP/WvW to unlock then it’s good for a PvE player since they can unlock 2 for 1. 
 

But this “unlocking” part is being really blown out of proportion here, if Anet tries to lock a Relic behind something truly difficult then you have all the rights to come back to complain later. But so far til now all the unlocks have been reasonably easy, so easy in fact that all the criticisms about unlocking just seems like “Waaa I want my candy now or I’mma cry” compared to Anet’s more logical “we want players to engage with our content” explanation.

 

 

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

PvP/WvW players have always been able to get Relics via their Reward track and skip the achievements. Only PvE players are required some effort to unlock access via achievements. If a Relic needs PvP/WvW to unlock then it’s good for a PvE player since they can unlock 2 for 1. 
 

But this “unlocking” part is being really blown out of proportion here, if Anet tries to lock a Relic behind something truly difficult then you have all the rights to come back to complain later. But so far til now all the unlocks have been reasonably easy, so easy in fact that all the criticisms about unlocking just seems like “Waaa I want my candy now or I’mma cry” compared to Anet’s more logical “we want players to engage with our content” explanation.

 

 

I'd respond to this the same way I did when my company decided to halve our redundancy terms, and told us not to worry because "they have no intention of making anyone redundant". My response was "if you aren't intending to make anyone redundant, why are you changing the terms? If you aren't going to use them, why even make this change?"

With this, I'd ask why ANET have suddenly decided to change the way that legendaries work. What harm would there be in leaving it so that legendary owners get their access immediately? What are they planning to do which would make this change necessary?

To me it looks like they're planning to release new and better relics with each expansion. Ones that become "must have", that even legendary owners won't get access to UNLESS THEY BUY THE EXPANSION. A way of forcing long term players to buy their increasingly watered down expansions, even if they own legendaries. It's cheaper than actually making good content, after all.

And if we let them get away with this, how long before they start making other legendaries work the same way, to "keep them in line"?

So no, this isn't people whining. This is people genuinely concerned at the direction ANET are taking,. and what it might mean in the future. This is our horse armour, and we can see where we're going to end up if we don't nip it in the bud. Because once they have broken the legendary covenant, they can paywall options in the future and have a cheap way of driving customer spending.

I don't think that's a good thing to happen. Do you?

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I'd respond to this the same way I did when my company decided to halve our redundancy terms, and told us not to worry because "they have no intention of making anyone redundant". My response was "if you aren't intending to make anyone redundant, why are you changing the terms? If you aren't going to use them, why even make this change?"

With this, I'd ask why ANET have suddenly decided to change the way that legendaries work. What harm would there be in leaving it so that legendary owners get their access immediately? What are they planning to do which would make this change necessary?

To me it looks like they're planning to release new and better relics with each expansion. Ones that become "must have", that even legendary owners won't get access to UNLESS THEY BUY THE EXPANSION. A way of forcing long term players to buy their increasingly watered down expansions, even if they own legendaries. It's cheaper than actually making good content, after all.

And if we let them get away with this, how long before they start making other legendaries work the same way, to "keep them in line"?

So no, this isn't people whining. This is people genuinely concerned at the direction ANET are taking,. and what it might mean in the future. This is our horse armour, and we can see where we're going to end up if we don't nip it in the bud. Because once they have broken the legendary covenant, they can paywall options in the future and have a cheap way of driving customer spending.

I don't think that's a good thing to happen. Do you?

This.

I don't mind unlocking stuff in decent content that I enjoy. But who's guaranteeing me enjoyment? I can't be the only one feeling zero excitement for the February 27 SotO Update 2, let alone a next expansion of the same release model. The current quality of content is the lowest we have seen since those pre-LWS1 mini events in 2013 before the actual content drop. I mean, I was so bored with SotO Update 1 that I actually started cultivating my alt account these past two months, which I had originally created only for daily login rewards and Festival rewards.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 2/2/2024 at 6:05 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Actually, no, it hasn't (even though that one restriction would indeed have sense).

Locking stats beyond expansion owned is however one thing. What anet does is to try to lock them beyond completing specific content. And that's significantly more restrictive.

It is a bit more work, nobody can deny that. But let me ask you this: how many new runes were added after PoF? Is that how you would like things to be forever? I suspect that Anet wasn't going to add more runes because there were already so many different ones out there that it didn't make any sense to add more.

And iirc with EoD the new stat sets didn't come to legendary items until after a while. So let me ask you: would you prefer to wait a few months and then have them all added or would you prefer how they do it now, so you can start adding them right away?

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It is a bit more work, nobody can deny that. But let me ask you this: how many new runes were added after PoF? Is that how you would like things to be forever? I suspect that Anet wasn't going to add more runes because there were already so many different ones out there that it didn't make any sense to add more.

And iirc with EoD the new stat sets didn't come to legendary items until after a while. So let me ask you: would you prefer to wait a few months and then have them all added or would you prefer how they do it now, so you can start adding them right away?

There's not going to be more runes anyway for the exact reason you mentioned. Relics, sure there can be more, but that's primarily because they first flat out deleted huge majority of the effects in order to replace them with seemingly more epic (but also generally less overall useful) ones.

10 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

And iirc with EoD the new stat sets didn't come to legendary items until after a while. So let me ask you: would you prefer to wait a few months and then have them all added or would you prefer how they do it now, so you can start adding them right away?

You remember wrong. Legendary items got those stats immediately. It's raids and fractals (and WvW) that had to wait a long time before drops in that content got updated.

[mirage.8046]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There's not going to be more runes anyway for the exact reason you mentioned. Relics, sure there can be more, but that's primarily because they first flat out deleted huge majority of the effects in order to replace them with seemingly more epic (but also generally less overall useful) ones.

We will never have new runes again which does suck; if there were going to be new runes, eventually there'd be runes with the same stat bonuses that other current existing runes have. Of course, new relics will have to be added to replace all of the runes' former 6th bonuses. we get expansion relics from then on, and those will be the only new things you'll miss out on, especially with the legendary relic not unlocking the new expansion's relics until you buy said new expansion.

Edited February 8 by mirage.8046

[Labjax.2465]

20 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

compared to Anet’s more logical “we want players to engage with our content” explanation.

Let's be clear: that explanation is the video game equivalent of a business saying "we are making this decision because we want to have customers." Is it logical to want players to engage with your content? Sure. It's what literally every video game tries to do . That doesn't make the approach being used inherently more reasonable than any other approach to try to get players to engage with content.

No video game studio is going to say, "We want players to disengage from our content and go play other games." It's a given that they want players to engage. The problem is in how they are choosing to try to get that engagement.

The fact is, Anet removed a feature from the game and is repackaging it as something else with fine print attached. The fact is, this is something some players had already earned. The fact is, this is a game that is historically supposed to not do that kind of thing and maintain what you earned over time.

The problem, in other words, is not that they are adding onto the house and charging for access to the new rooms - a practice that is standard in MMOs at this point. The problem is that they removed a room that was already there, are taking an awful long time to establish a new room that is sort of like the removed room but not really with weird conditions attached, and are framing it as compensation for the removed room.

Games reuse assets a lot to save on cost and time, but this is a step different from that. This is removing what is already there and redesigning it in such a way that it can be sold in bite-sized packages over time. It's sort of like when a game chops up features before release, to sell it in DLC packages... except they're doing it in a live game, over 10 years in. Honestly, the more I try to make it absolutely clear the nature of it, the more I'm put off that they're even trying to do it. That someone greenlit this idea, knowing what they were doing. In some cases, what they were doing to people who have been such exuberant fans as to be with them for over 10 years. Imagine having that little respect for the people who play your game. I can't mind-read and claim they meant it as a disrespect and I'm sure they'd never want it to be viewed that way. But sometimes you have to just go by what an entity or individual is willing to do to you, intent aside, and decide whether you want to put up with it, i.e. whether you want to quit, complain to see if you can get a reversal of decision made, etc.

Edited February 8 by Labjax.2465
phrasing