Your Top 5 Problems or Concerns of WvW

[XenesisII.1540]

Been a while since we've had one of these.

Here's my list, feel free to list your own.

1. Boon ball game play. Too much support, not enough strips, too easy for groups to roll maps when there's no opposing groups of same strength, discourages pugs and essentially kills off content for hours. Numbers matter, skill doesn't. Not to mention the lag that comes with it, game is turning into ESO.

2. 2v1 doesn't work as it should. Two strongest should not be avoiding each other to fight the weakest. That is bully game play, there needs to be incentive to always go after the strongest, seek out a challenge and not prey on the weakest, King of the Hill, not Swim in the Sewers.

3. Population, on a server, world, or time zone level, a mess and will never be balanced, but why spend so much time thinking about it on a world level, instead of fixing it on the smaller level, with outnumbered or map mechanics.

4. Roaming in a good place? meh, some specs get away with having too much of something or another.

5. What's next after WR? What's going to change to make me want to continue playing WvW in the future? Points don't matter, siege don't matter, upgrades don't matter, wins don't matter, is there any change coming to boost WvW in the future or is it another 10 years of missing Cornerstones?

Bonus 6. Where's the wvw legendary accessories? A 5k ticket infusion with a 0.00000001% drop rate was a giant nothing burger.

What are your top 5 problems or concerns of WvW?

[SweetPotato.7456]

My top concern is people trying remove red borderland.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2. Is a communication problem.

The second strongest could attack the first place, but alone, this won't do much. As little to no progress will be very likely. So this doesn't make much tactical sense. 

IF the third would join the fight against the first, this could be different. 

But that's takes coordination between both second and third. Which simply can't happen as long as both servers don't directly communicate. 

And putting an extra incentive there won't help much when the second place can't do kitten alone. 

Meanwhile, the third place often tucks their tale behind their legs anyway after day2. 

 

It's basically like a 3 way pvp mid fight at the start of the match. 

The team that won the first midfight will dominate. While second place wants to fight them but third has 4 people Afk at spawn. So no chance other then go for the abandoned third place area. 

[cryorion.9532]

1. Boons and support are way too strong. The game shifted more towards brainless spam of everything. Perma boons don't belong in competetive modes. Time to nerf boon uptime.

2. Celestial builds are overtuned. Too forgiving on mistakes and too potent. Possible solution is to remove concentration and expertise stats.

3. Mobility skills on most classes allow easy disengage, most notably 1200 range teleports with stunbreaks. Nerf them to 600 range. Escaping is way too easy. Or give them to all professions so no one can escape.

4. Willbender and thief. Willbender has too much of everything and together with thief can be extremely oppresive. Do I need to elaborate more here?

5. Stealth and invulnerability. For stealth, possible solution is to add more (practical) sources of big aoe reveal (that don't reuquire target selected). Invulnerability is way too strong in competetive modes and should be changed probably to no damage taken (like Endure Pain).

___

Bonus point: 6. Pulls. All pulls should have their ranges changed to 600 and be better telegraphed. Warrior staff is going to have this cone indicator, so add that to all pulls.

___

Balance in WvW is currently what kills it for me the most. WvW game mode has extremely good replayability given how little content it has received over the years. But good balance is very important to me. Outliers are not being addressed at all and the powercreep is just out of hand... again. And I am afraid that this time, the solution isn't to simply just reduce damages.

Let's see how many confu emotes this gets.

[SleepyBat.9034]

20 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

3. Mobility skills on most classes allow easy disengage, most notably 1200 range teleports with stunbreaks. Nerf them to 600 range. Escaping is way too easy. Or give them to all professions so no one can escape.

I disagree with this because mounts are a thing.

20 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Willbender and thief. Willbender has too much of everything and together with thief can be extremely oppresive. Do I need to elaborate more here?

imho they fulfill the role of roamer a little too well. Good luck getting any of that changed, at the rate Anet is adding things to the game every class will have that level of power.

Edited February 22 by SleepyBat.9034

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

2. Is a communication problem.

lol no it’s not. It’s just people saying they are there for a fair fight and then they attack the weakest because a fair fight is them winning.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

13 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

lol no it’s not. It’s just people saying they are there for a fair fight and then they attack the weakest because a fair fight is them winning.

You are in a ring with 2 other fighters. 

There is a clear hierarchy of strength. 

You are Nr2.  If you fight Nr1, it will be a long drawn out fight that you will lose. 

You could get Nr3 to help you but you can't communicate with him. In any way. 

You can only hope that Nr3 does start fighting Nr1 on his own. 

Meanwhile, from Nr3's perspective, why on earth would he start fighting Nr1 when it means getting destroyed. Even Nr2 is to much for him. 

So, Nr3 can only hope Nr2 is attacking Nr1 to get maybe something done. Which, again is a stupid decision to make for Nr2. 

Or, what's most likely gonna happen is that Nr3 isn't even fighting at all. Can't fight Nr1 or 2 afterall. 

It ends with a Nr2 that has only Nr1 to fight. Which again is not feasible. So the only option is occupy Nr3 territory. 

Nr1 is winning anyway. So why bother who you are attacking? 

 

There needs to be communication between Nr2 and 3 for a coordinated attack on Nr1. 

Which again, isn't possible just via Gw2s option alone. At best, it's guilds from the 2 servers talking with each other. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Top 5:

Boonball and lack of balance of boon versus anti-boon.

Lack of new maps.

Lack of new options: siege, tactics.

Lack of reasons to win.

Lack of goals/missions/bounties to chase.

[Dawdler.8521]

41 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

You are in a ring with 2 other fighters. 

There is a clear hierarchy of strength. 

You are Nr2.  If you fight Nr1, it will be a long drawn out fight that you will lose. 

You could get Nr3 to help you but you can't communicate with him. In any way. 

You can only hope that Nr3 does start fighting Nr1 on his own. 

Meanwhile, from Nr3's perspective, why on earth would he start fighting Nr1 when it means getting destroyed. Even Nr2 is to much for him. 

So, Nr3 can only hope Nr2 is attacking Nr1 to get maybe something done. Which, again is a stupid decision to make for Nr2. 

Or, what's most likely gonna happen is that Nr3 isn't even fighting at all. Can't fight Nr1 or 2 afterall. 

It ends with a Nr2 that has only Nr1 to fight. Which again is not feasible. So the only option is occupy Nr3 territory. 

Nr1 is winning anyway. So why bother who you are attacking? 

 

There needs to be communication between Nr2 and 3 for a coordinated attack on Nr1. 

Which again, isn't possible just via Gw2s option alone. At best, it's guilds from the 2 servers talking with each other. 

WvW isn’t a ring. 2 kill 3 and get a win, then run away laughing at 1 not having anything to fight.

Communication ain’t gonna change anything, one need some kind of bonus for fighting the “strongest”. We had outnumbered in a way for it (well at least it encouraged going there and presence is half the battle) until Anet kitten the kitten out of it.

[Triptaminas.4789]

17 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

WvW isn’t a ring. 2 kill 3 and get a win, then run away laughing at 1 not having anything to fight.

Communication ain’t gonna change anything, one need some kind of bonus for fighting the “strongest”. We had outnumbered in a way for it (well at least it encouraged going there and presence is half the battle) until Anet kitten the kitten out of it.

No, the nr1 just gonna spawn camp and roll over everything with blob composed of holo, two barrier scourges, two other supports, that applies boons 4 times faster than equally sized blob can strip, and nr2-3 will try ppt jumping maps, but nr1 have same blobs and qued maps everywhere so they just lose motivation on monday and night ppt crews carry over.

The nr,1's is so overstacked and content deprived that 20 people will chase u back to spawn and then build sieges on all 3 exits. 

When was last time u seen things from nr2 or nr3 perspective dawdler?

Anyway, my biggest issue that this gamemode and mid/large scale lost any skill component whatsoever, only class comp and numbers remain, u cant be carried by skill or improve on it, so playng kinda becomes pointless.

The days when u could grind enough to git gud and then whoop pleb assess outnumbered is over..sad state of affairs.

Edited February 22 by Triptaminas.4789

[XenesisII.1540]

It's not a hard concept to figure out who to attack. Simple map politics.

You go to ebg and green has smc, you're blue, and there's red, well obviously don't attack red, attack green until red gets the message to do the same thing. You don't try to sneak reds closest tower and camp every time they hit smc, you hit green instead and tap their keep. You don't need secret back channel whispers to figure this stuff out, read the map.

But everyone just wants what's easiest to do, including dog pile a side when you might need them to hit the other side bigger than you. Or they have the mentality not to provoke the big side onto you, but guess what it'll happen anyways when they need to feed on content. This is why there needs to be better mechanics to motivate the weakest to hit the strongest.

I've mentioned this before, instead of placing Outnumbered to weak sides who already struggle with numbers so have a harder time killing or capturing, therefore the bonuses are practically useless to them, place Overwhelming on the biggest side on the map so that the other sides can simultaneously benefit from the bonuses of it. So it acts like a bounty on that side. There's no reason to have a 3rd team in the game if you're just going to encourage the two biggest to hit the weakest. Game mechanics like this need to be updated to help have better balanced fights in the game.

[Triptaminas.4789]

Dawdler.8521 is typing...

[Dawdler.8521]

34 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

When was last time u seen things from nr2 or nr3 perspective dawdler?

lol we spent many months without a link end of last year loosing every matchup. That’s not a problem if the 2 weakest “working together” because neither will have a chance against a stacked world so guess what - it still end up with those 2 fighting because that’s the only thing they can do to get some kind of entertainment out of the week.

But if you keep saying WR is the solution I won’t disagree. I was mostly talking more per map incentives.

Edited February 22 by Dawdler.8521

[Triptaminas.4789]

5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

lol we spent many months without a link end of last year loosing every matchup. That’s not a problem if the 2 weakest “working together” because neither will have a chance against a stacked world so guess what - it still end up with those 2 fighting because that’s the only thing they can do to get some kind of entertainment out of the week.

But if you keep saying WR is the solution I won’t disagree. I was mostly talking more per map incentives.

I dont think wr is the solution, i dont think alliances is the solution, i think said things would just make problem worse, obv it will normalize with time yet it still will allow way harder bandwagon, we seen taste of that with betas.

Solution would be.. reward rework of some kind, that would give little for punishing the weak, and give more for fighting the strong, yet as i write i realize that would be quickly exploited by wvw farmers too, they would just spoof k/d with alts.

This whole wvw state of no skill need to be reverted as it give no intellectual gratification and makes game mode pointless, used to be that skill actually mattered...

bandwagoning/overstacking need to be punished, i just have no idea how either of this should be done tbh.

Edited February 22 by Triptaminas.4789

[Ashen.2907]

Boonball, as described in the OP.

Lack of DR on CC. 

Excessive stealth and/or mobility for disengage.

Lack of incentive to defend.

Declining server identity.

Bonus: I really dislike downstate in WvW.

[Triptaminas.4789]

People hating on mobility would love if gw2 turn to tab action or straight up mobile game..maybe turn based?? 😒 

Ramp up mobility for all classess so these people stop complaining, mobility is fun, fun is good.

[cryorion.9532]

8 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I disagree with this because mounts are a thing.

Mounts being a thing should actually support my argument though. They are good for out of combat mobility. For mobility when in combat, once you commit to fight, you should commit and can't just force out of combat when things aren't in your favor.

[cryorion.9532]

2 hours ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

People hating on mobility would love if gw2 turn to tab action or straight up mobile game..maybe turn based?? 😒 

Ramp up mobility for all classess so these people stop complaining, mobility is fun, fun is good.

It's not really hating on mobility but more on ability to force out of combat easily. Possible solution is to give 1200 range stunbreak teleport to every profession that doesn't have it but like... I am not sure if this solution is healthy for the game balance.

[CafPow.1542]

1) bugs

2) exploits

3) thieves (jk they are not that awful)

4) no real counter to boonballs. (Good clouding can be but….)

5) ehh… a new map would be nice

[Mabi black.1824]

10 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

But that's takes coordination between both second and third. Which simply can't happen as long as both servers don't directly communicate. 

very subjective. It's definitely a matter of mindset, what you're looking for, but probably as Xen says if there was an incentive to do it, you'd see 2 and 3 collaborate more often vs 1. I can tell you what happens to me when I put the tag. 100 times out of 100 I move towards the team that is winning, I can't help it, it's stronger than me, I only like it when things are very complicated in WVW. I open the big map and choose where to move, and my will is affected 6-7 times out of 10 from the team that is losing, that regularly attacks me and then you go to defend. Clean, repair, WP, and open the big map again to choose where to attack the winning team. from the beginning 6-7 times and finally I get to play with the strongest team.

[Junkpile.7439]

11 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

My top concern is people trying remove red borderland.

It weird how baruch bay is only server in europe that play in red map. 🤦‍♂️

[Mabi black.1824]

13 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

5. What's next after WR? What's going to change to make me want to continue playing WvW in the future? Points don't matter, siege don't matter, upgrades don't matter, wins don't matter, is there any change coming to boost WvW in the future or is it another 10 years of missing Cornerstones?

That's definitely my No. 1 concern

[Gorani.7205]

14 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

1. Boon ball game play. Too much support, not enough strips, too easy for groups to roll maps when there's no opposing groups of same strength, discourages pugs and essentially kills off content for hours. Numbers matter, skill doesn't. Not to mention the lag that comes with it, game is turning into ESO.

2. 2v1 doesn't work as it should. Two strongest should not be avoiding each other to fight the weakest. That is bully game play, there needs to be incentive to always go after the strongest, seek out a challenge and not prey on the weakest, King of the Hill, not Swim in the Sewers.

3. Population, on a server, world, or time zone level, a mess and will never be balanced, but why spend so much time thinking about it on a world level, instead of fixing it on the smaller level, with outnumbered or map mechanics.

4. Roaming in a good place? meh, some specs get away with having too much of something or another.

5. What's next after WR? What's going to change to make me want to continue playing WvW in the future? Points don't matter, siege don't matter, upgrades don't matter, wins don't matter, is there any change coming to boost WvW in the future or is it another 10 years of missing Cornerstones?

I pretty much agree with all points, but want to add my two pouches of Dolyak supplies concerning two different aspects, a) skill balance and b) game mechanics

1. a) I don't see ANet deviating from the boon ball a lot, even with the latest upcoming balance patch that just replaces some boons with others, but isn't really vamping up the changes with more corrupts or strips.
1. b) There would be a chance to give siege better boon strip/corrupt abilities like Cannon #1 removing 2 boons (or 3) per shot. Arrow Cart #4 could also corrupt boons (and get it recharge halved), sou you just can't sit in AC fire and shrug it off, because every boon gets replaced and every poison gets healed immediately.

2. I am a vocal advocate of changing that for many years now and I think it should not address the problem on a "player" but server level (so not punishing the individual player of the team ranking 1st, but implementing incentives for 2nd & 3rd to work together vs. th e1st placed server). This was many people here already posted about and agreed upon.

3. Here is where the problem 2. comes in. 1st placed servers often have capacity to overwhelm with numbers and dominate large periods of time (especially off hours).
3. b) We should have some sort of de-buff for huge groups that pretty much can auto-attack their way across a map, perhaps with some "fractal like" group wide condition that lets you carry less supply or even give you less participation for small targets that allow you to refresh yourself when stomping everything (sentries, shrines, dollies and camps don't provide any participation, players kills only refresh for 2 min under the buff). Mechanics should work somehow that your really have to work for them or put you in danger for doing so. A zergling that auto attacks a poor soul getting killed by 20+ should not get 10 min of participation and continue the stampede.
Also, maintaining T3 structures should be difficult. Sabotaging dolyaks, so they deliver "poisoned food" with a new trap would divert forces to take a look a dollys coming in. Throwing a "gold pouch bribe" trap on a keep guard should make him look "the other way" and not attack you and cause white swords to alert enemy players to the attack. It also should be harder to dominate any map that is not your home map. There could be numerous things to work on.

4. I just want roamers to have a bigger impact on the game than just fighting each other, due to the a) problem (just look at the way ANet "balanced" Willbender so far).

[Sonork.2916]

In terms of roaming and small scale:  

Cele is still a problem.  -  Could be helped by reverting the change they made which added conc/expertise to the stats.

Damage avoidance -  Some classes have a stupid amount of this, way too many invulns/blocks/evades/conversion or straight up damage prevention methods while also still being able to pressure their opponent.   Coupled with the problem above, leads to long boring sustain fights.  Or if you're both playing power, the ranged class with more invulns/blocks/evades/prevention/conversion generally gets the W.

Infinite Boons:   Near perm boons, like 25 stacks of might, prot, resistance make things stupid.  Outside of making burst incredibly high, Not every class even has options to deal with boons outside of sigil of absorption.

Teleports/Mobility:  Just gonna say it, I think 1200 range is too far for instant escapes or engages.  Too many easy outs for too many classes.  Would love to see all ports/leaps reduced to 900 or even 600 range.
 

[Kuya.6495]

7 hours ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

People hating on mobility would love if gw2 turn to tab action or straight up mobile game..maybe turn based?? 😒 

Ramp up mobility for all classess so these people stop complaining, mobility is fun, fun is good.

They won't stop complaining about mobility even if all professions had it. People who hate mobility tend to be condi bunker enjoyers.