How about an underwater specialization?

[andreiblue.8231]

Build templates have a separate underwater set for the 6-0 skills, what if they had a different set for traits too and we got an underwater only specialization for all classes? All classes have access only to 1-2 out of the 3 underwater weapons, the specialization could also add access to another one and it could refresh underwater combat since most specialization don't perform well underwater. A specialization made specifically for underwater combat would make playing underwater combat better and less frustrating since some specializations are affected more thab others (chrono wells dont workd underwater while scrapper wells do)

 

I am tired of contrarians and negative people, just react with confused if you disagree, I am just suggesting, you don't have to make a 10 pages argument about my idea being kitten just to make me feel bad.

[Randulf.7614]

I'm not wholly against it. In fact I'm largely in favour of improvements to the underwater system given it was such an iconic part of the starter game for me

However - and I am going to ignore your last line since it's a discussion forum

The problem is, Anet abandoned it - presumably due to negative feedback. Maps had water areas drained, competitive maps had their underwater sections were changed or removed entirely and barely a handful of underwater skins have been added since before HoT. Any maps with coasts had little to no mobs or interesting features added with one exception which was more geared towards making skiffs useful

The other issue is that a specialisation that only works underwater will prob not be used. There's almost nothing to fight and then it can't be effective on land which is 99% of the game. It would be a different matter if underwater content actually existed, but realistically it doesn't. We'd need an expansion dedicated to it and that's had very mixed responses over the years. It wont refresh underwater content because no content exists to be refreshed except Leviathan and that doesn't need a trait system just for it

I think it would be better to synergise the existing traits to work better underwater, improve some of the underwater weapons and perhaps even make land weapons usable underwater too to give more choices. Then add in legendary breathers, better access to ascended ones, sort out the swim infusion system so it's less grindy.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do this, but it's probably one of the last steps in a chain to improve underwater content, which starts with actually making underwater content first

 

Edited March 25 by Randulf.7614

[Fueki.4753]

The very fact that they pulled the Water Elder Dragon onto dry land should tell you enough about what they think of underwater content.

While I wouldn't mind underwater specializations, I doubt it'll ever happen.

Edited March 25 by Fueki.4753

[Tinker.6924]

Don't think we need an extra specialization for underwater.  We absolutely need more underwater weapons choices (some professions only have 1 weapon that works underwater) and make more skills work underwater.  

 

[Cyninja.2954]

The main issue with underwater combat summarized: it's not fun.

The developers tried reworks in the past, with no success. In essence uw combat would need to be reworked from the ground up. That is before accounting for lack of content (which can also be a pro, given it would allow for a LOT of content development), the high risk of this en-devour failing (wasting tons of resources) and then even with it succeeding the additional balance which would now be a concern (unlike currently where even after the rework, uw skills are all over the place, many not even working).

So while the idea is not bad, it's like building on sand. Before any such content sees development the structural foundations would need to be improved/corrected. I believe the developers know that and as such we will not see anything in this direction happening. Unless as part of a mini expansion main feature as a hail-marry dice roll.

Edited March 25 by Cyninja.2954

[Baloo.1947]

Quote

The main issue with underwater combat summarized: it's not fun.

Why do you think it's not fun ? 

In my opinion, it's not "fun" because of the lack of content (mostly one fractal once you've finished the map completion) so I don't bother learning nor stuffing properly my chars.

So if they release, let's be crazy, an UW oriented expansion maybe people will start investing on builds/stuff and may find it fun in the end. And I agree, it's one helll of hail-marry dice roll x]

 

[Lucy.3728]

It's no fun because movement is in all directions... unwanted adds too.

Edited March 25 by Lucy.3728

[Xelqypla.6817]

2 hours ago, Baloo.1947 said:

Why do you think it's not fun ? 

In my opinion, it's not "fun" because of the lack of content (mostly one fractal once you've finished the map completion) so I don't bother learning nor stuffing properly my chars.

So if they release, let's be crazy, an UW oriented expansion maybe people will start investing on builds/stuff and may find it fun in the end. And I agree, it's one helll of hail-marry dice roll x]

 

People struggle with height.

I like the underwater stuff, but people really struggle with that extra dimension.

[Doggie.3184]

I still wish builds just stayed the same in water, including their weapons. Just tweak all the weaponskills with different animation that mainly used just the upper body. Make ground target skills cast directly on yourself or enemy, including utilities~ no utilities should be locked. And eventually allow underwater weapons to be useable on land... if you think about it it's kind of odd our characters are carrying around a harpoongun, spear and/or trident that they rarely use/may never use instead of just learning how to use their sword underwater as magical beings.

That's a big dream though and with the Cantha living story getting skipped there's very little chance of ever getting underwater content.

Underwater content was a selling point to me before game released and it's been something underdelivered ever since.

[Sobx.1758]

If anything, they should fix current skills and mechanics to make them work underwater. Different set of traits for UW might work, but at the same time there would probably be quite bit of buggy interactions related to swapping them incombat while repeatedly going in and out of the water. So doubt anything like that will happen.
And I can't say that I care about uw enough to go beyond "fix or replace skills/mechanics to work uw".

In summary: no, thanks.

[Farohna.6247]

I find the underwater content friendlier than most games, however I just purely don't like underwater.  It's fine to visit, I don't want an entire expansion or storyline there.  Bad enough helping quaggan.  I do the leviathan, good enough lol.  

More improvements to underwater weapons, sure.  An entire specialization, nah.   I get it, a lot of my revenant skills aren't particularly useful underwater, but I don't really want them to spend more time or resources on underwater content.  

[Teknomancer.4895]

There's very little content to interact with, true. But I would like to see at least a few upgrades that have been mentioned above:

• Allow all classes full access to all 3 UW weapon types
• Remove the utility skill disabilities to enable their use
• Tweak a few traits to add some UW synergies

Realistically, I'd be happy with just the first one.

[Zera.9435]

20 hours ago, Lucy.3728 said:

It's no fun because movement is in all directions... unwanted adds too.

If you can fly with a skyscale, then you can swim underwater in all 3 dimensions.

[Zera.9435]

19 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

I find the underwater content friendlier than most games, however I just purely don't like underwater.  It's fine to visit, I don't want an entire expansion or storyline there.  Bad enough helping quaggan.  I do the leviathan, good enough lol.  

More improvements to underwater weapons, sure.  An entire specialization, nah.   I get it, a lot of my revenant skills aren't particularly useful underwater, but I don't really want them to spend more time or resources on underwater content.  

Why not? Why not improve it? It definitely has room for improvement. They took the time to give us a flying system from scratch, why not improve a system already in place? I'd be totally fine with them taking some time/resources to improve on what they already have. Underwater movement is fine, and is made better with skimmer.

I think the reason folks don't particularly like underwater combat is because the build viability and variety is just not there. For the most part you're stuck with one weapon (even if you have two, you really only use the one that does more damage). All they need to do is just improve on the underwater weapons/skills system. That's the starting point.

As far as an 'underwater spec', I think that could be a good idea. It would be separate  fourth spec from the three we have. It could always be active and should have its own branching traits like the others. From there, they could easily add a variety of traits to make power, condi, or support builds at least somewhat viable in underwater combat. Once all that is in place, THEN they can perhaps add more underwater content or, dare I say, underwater LW content that can perhaps focus on the races like Hylek, Quaggans, and Krait. Hell, if they want they can add more races like mermaids for all I care, or create new lore and write new stories. I'm just saying, there would be potential content.

[Farohna.6247]

1 hour ago, Zera.9435 said:

Why not? Why not improve it? It definitely has room for improvement. They took the time to give us a flying system from scratch, why not improve a system already in place? I'd be totally fine with them taking some time/resources to improve on what they already have. Underwater movement is fine, and is made better with skimmer.

I think the reason folks don't particularly like underwater combat is because the build viability and variety is just not there. For the most part you're stuck with one weapon (even if you have two, you really only use the one that does more damage). All they need to do is just improve on the underwater weapons/skills system. That's the starting point.

As far as an 'underwater spec', I think that could be a good idea. It would be separate  fourth spec from the three we have. It could always be active and should have its own branching traits like the others. From there, they could easily add a variety of traits to make power, condi, or support builds at least somewhat viable in underwater combat. Once all that is in place, THEN they can perhaps add more underwater content or, dare I say, underwater LW content that can perhaps focus on the races like Hylek, Quaggans, and Krait. Hell, if they want they can add more races like mermaids for all I care, or create new lore and write new stories. I'm just saying, there would be potential content.

I don't usually fight on a flying mount though, a few fireballs and that's it.  It's just transportation for the most part.  For me, it is not the build viability or variety...I really don't enjoy the entire underwater theme in games, not limited to but including the appearance (i.e. the view distance, effects), aquatic sounds, the enemies (krait, quaggan, just yuck), swimming combat (I would rather run not float around enemies), and the general claustrophobic feeling of it (that's a personal problem lol).  

Agreed it would open up some interesting ideas.  But it's not something I personally would purchase or invest time in playing.  Just not my area of interest.  So for the limited amount of time spent in the water currently, it's not really worth spending the time to work on it.  I also don't want to run through clouds, using a magical poof jump to float from one to the other just because we have skyscales, or spend all my time in the dark with a torch, or extensively underground with the mole rats. 

[Lucy.3728]

2 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

If you can fly with a skyscale, then you can swim underwater in all 3 dimensions.

But I hate flying and getting attacked from all directions too.

There's no difference.

It just rarely happens when flying.

And flying is just a tool to get faster from A to B and not something I do merely for fun. If I could teleport wherever I want I wouldn't touch the skyscale anymore.

[azorean.1850]

shut your mouth!! suggesting an underwater specialization!? you need jesus in your life. but in all seriousness no thank you.

[LSD.4673]

Consensus: "how about no?"

[andreiblue.8231]

16 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

Consensus: "how about no?"

That was the consensus when I suggested colored titles and alacrity for scourge and look where we are now

[Randulf.7614]

25 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

That was the consensus when I suggested colored titles and alacrity for scourge and look where we are now

To be fair, the coloured titles wasn't actually a bad idea - as long as it is limited to the more special ones. You either accept some people will always say no, or put it in the QoL mega thread which is less of a discussion thread.

The fundamental problem here isn't necessary the idea itself, but the much bigger barriers in front of it that need to be overcome first. 

[Batalix.2873]

I'm not sure if especs would be the way to go, but if the devs actually wanted to *develop* and *iterate* on the game like in the HoT/PoF years, a massive underwater overhaul would be exactly the sort of game-changing paradigm shift that would demonstrate that they actually still have ideas and care about the game.

Honestly, it already should have happened in LWS6, would have been what saved EoD and the Cantha region.

[Charall.4710]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:53 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

The main issue with underwater combat summarized: it's not fun.

I disagree, it's an absolute blast in my opinion. Should have more underwater content and legendaries.

[Bladestrom.6425]

3 hours ago, Charall.4710 said:

I disagree, it's an absolute blast in my opinion. Should have more underwater content and legendaries.

I disagree, the sense of space is poor.  Where exactly do you have a blast playing underwater and what % of your overall game time is actually underwater?

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

I disagree, the sense of space is poor.  Where exactly do you have a blast playing underwater and what % of your overall game time is actually underwater?

I agree with your disagreement. Not much against adding legendary breather, but other than that, I don't need more uw content at all.

[Gwynnion.7364]

An underwater specialization?  That's way too niche.

Expanding underwater content?  Eh.  If they reworked underwater targeting, skills, and weapons, it might be okay, but I still remember how much I hated Vashj'ir in WoW, where it felt like wandering around inside a giant fish tank with cheesy decorations.

I'd rather just have some underwater weapons revamped and available for general use.