Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:I know you probably are a no skill spam spam, hide from damage (block, evade, invul, dodge, or stealth) then spam spam spam, hide from damage (block, evade, invul, dodge, or stealth), Spam spam kind of player because those are the ones that defend condi the most.You literally described every damage build in the game. Including power builds.

Especially

power builds, in fact.

Umm no? Not every build lays 100 conditions down while the toon dances around dodgeing damage then applying 100 more and dance some more. Least with power they have to be up to get damaged because power damage doesnt tick away like condi does. You have to score multiple hits. not just 1 spammy burst and wait.

[philosophy.7560]

Is it typical on this forum for the Devs to make an announcement like this and then not respond to any of the comments that follow? That seems like a fairly dysfunctional job description for the Devs. This person is earning a salary and they should respond to most of the comments.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@"nedlee.5943" said:How come changing Mutilate Defense helps with "offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone)"? Using energy-expensive, long cooldown elite skills once in a while for a measly 5 seconds of vulnerability is somehow more engaging and helps the gameplay? It is just a straight nerf, especailly with Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning only work with Vulnerability which are minor traits you cannot change at all. Please stop nerfing the revenant, it really doesn't need one, and this trait is used for power builds. Why nerf an underperforming power build in this condi rebalance.

I am pretty worried that anet thought it was such a great change that should be mentioned as a sign of how things will get better with this patch.

This comment is one everyone should be focused on. No one really cares because hey it's revenant, who plays that shit anyway, but it is a clear example of how Anet can fuck it all up even harder. Especially in WvW where trailblazer exists and base durations will get buffed next batch.

[apharma.3741]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@"nedlee.5943" said:How come changing Mutilate Defense helps with "offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone)"? Using energy-expensive, long cooldown elite skills once in a while for a measly 5 seconds of vulnerability is somehow more engaging and helps the gameplay? It is just a straight nerf, especailly with Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning only work with Vulnerability which are minor traits you cannot change at all. Please stop nerfing the revenant, it really doesn't need one, and this trait is used for power builds. Why nerf an underperforming power build in this condi rebalance.

I am pretty worried that anet thought it was such a great change that should be mentioned as a sign of how things will get better with this patch.

This comment is one everyone should be focused on. No one really cares because hey it's revenant, who plays that kitten anyway, but it is a clear example of how Anet can kitten it all up even harder. Especially in WvW where trailblazer exists and base durations will get buffed next batch.

Hmmm so what you’re saying is we need a new stat combo, power, precision, ferocity and expertise so that vuln lasts longer :lol:

[Kallist.5917]

Ive got a question for you Anet Staff. Are you going to give us a free respec for our gear after this patch, or is respeccing it going to be on us? I ask because I dont see Grieving being a very good option after this patch, with a squishy class now needing to lock the enemy down and play keep away 33% longer. And having just spend hundreds of gold making my Grieving gear, im a bit annoyed at the prospect of already needing to rebuild it. How about in the future you have a little bit of transparency with your community, and give us an idea of where the upcoming patches will be pushing us? You know, like a not shit company. But then again, anything to sell those gems, right?

[Vulf.3098]

@Ghos.1326 said:This balance patch is not going to be a condi nerf by any means. It's simply putting condition damage back into the place it should have been since launch: a damage OVER TIME option using damaging conditions and debuffs for your opponent. Note, damage over time does not mean burst 15 stacks of burn on you and lel at your attempts at trying to survive taking 6k damage per second, from an instantaneous application of one condition.

Well they would have to fix the issue of disparity in damage between each different type of condition before we can start talking about a damage over time design.

For example 1 stack of burning does about 4k damage over 8 seconds while torment barely does 2k over 10 seconds or about 3k over 10 seconds if the target is moving the whole duration. I do agree that being able to apply 25 stacks of burning almost instantly needs some sort of adjustment but I do not agree with conditions like Torment seeing the same treatment considering the current numbers.

[Lunateric.3708]

@philosophy.7560 said:Is it typical on this forum for the Devs to make an announcement like this and then not respond to any of the comments that follow? That seems like a fairly dysfunctional job description for the Devs. This person is earning a salary and they should respond to most of the comments.

no, they should not. They are most likely paid to DEVELOP things as a developer, not to engage in conversations with anyone and specially not to respond to bait, entitled or toxic posts.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

            - e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

This is a nerf. Ask each member of the balance team to read what 'Targeted Destruction' does because if they think this is at all a buff then they are 120% clueless.

Please add someone to the balance team who actually plays Revenant. If that's too much to ask, please at least add someone to the balance team who is willing to read what revenant traits actually do .

[Heika.5403]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:Wintersday is coming fellow Tyrians and, during the recent AMA, I made reference to a small balance update and I wished to follow-up to let you know that we're aiming to release that update next Tuesday, 12/12.

---

We've heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

This small update has primary two foci:

• Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up.
  • i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after.
  • e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.
• Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.
  • e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

As always, we’ll be looking for your feedback once you have had a chance to play with the upcoming changes. We’ll start a post here after December 12th to hear your thoughts, so please prepare your most constructive feedback.

See you in the lands!

About WvW, it's really difficult balance that game mode. When our enemy is a lot superior in number in the map we receive a buff... I have the idea that it could be developed a system like that but in the way the dynamic events are, call it scalable balance. An active system that use the game mesh and detect how many players of each team/server are together in zerg, etc, using the cells and flags in the functions, balancing consecuently the areas where players are inside the map to make the combat more equitative and don't let the superiority in number be as deadly. It would take time, even years, but sure it could be used forever, including future games.

From the PVE perpestive my advice is don't balance it in the way WvW and PvP is. Tweak numbers in the same direction is an error. Actually we have the bigger diversity of professions/specializations in High-End content that we had ever. PVE doesn't need ramp up in the conditions, need tweak power in some professions: ranger/necro/mesmer/warrior/revenant (perhaps thief too) or their specializations to have, at least, a power build relevant. If you only change the conditions in the way you mention, not only tomorrow, in the future, that will kill actual PVE diversity and weaver/dragon hunter/holosmith would fill almost all the spots in high-end content, would dominate them all. The actual meta is mainly hybrid and power, so the power is there and is mainly favored in the design of the game, less specific content.

Today I've readed a poll about if GW2 should be better without WvW and PvP. Players that visit the forums are more concerned about all games modes. But the majority of players that are PVE players never come to the forum, the ones that buy gems to show their mounts, etc. Do you want them to start coming here against how WvW and PvP negatively affect PVE in their equilibrium?

I almost do not play PvP so I can not give advice there. The people I know who have played more than me tell me that there are fewer and fewer players in that game mode and partly the fault lies with the community itself because of their behavior.

Finally, I just hope you make the right decisions and split the game modes properly. It's just an opinion but I hope it helps. Thanks for reading me.

[Xillllix.3485]

@"coro.3176" said:Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb:

That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge".

Lol what a mess. It's a shame considering where the game started back in 2013. It was so much better.

[Daffan.8924]

When is this coming out so I can judge if this game is worth playing any more or not . inb4 delay and 6 more months of guardian/necro jokefest.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

@Daffan.8924 said:When is this coming out so I can judge if this game is worth playing any more or not

If you read the op and not just comments you'd know

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Shargon.5412 said:When spellbreaker's invulnerabilities will be nerfed ? Too owerpowered for sPVP mode.

Warrior have been brokenly too invulerable to damage for a LONG time. It wont be fixed. Ever. It's a faceroll class. Most MMOs have them being the starter/easier class. Anet took it a step further and made them a unkillable monster. Just think. They could be FULL Zerk geared and STILL have more health and armor than most bunker builds. Then all the passive and active defense procs, the passive insanely broken sustain which they dont really sacrifice anything for. They ARE over powered. They will stay that way, until the next expansion when they will be nerfed and replaced with an even stronger Warrior spec.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Xillllix.3485" said:Lol what a mess. It's a shame considering where the game started back in 2013. It was so much better.

Anet killed it. They decided to ditch the balance idea and went with the "lets get as many players as possible, who cares if they are good. We will make the balance carry them and they will just keep spending on our beloved gemstore"

[Dadnir.5038]

@Xillllix.3485 said:Lol what a mess. It's a shame considering where the game started back in 2013. It was so much better.

Yeah... no target cap on aoe was so much better...

[gmmg.9210]

Love the attention to feedback, just please keep them coming. Little updates like these will go a long way in giving us confidence that balance is a top priority.

[Haseno.6417]

Engi is long overdue for some buffs.

Holosmith is fine as is. At most it needs some QOL improvements.

Scrapper is in a bad spot. Gyros are a great concept which is poorly implemented. Theyre rather lackluster. Gearing a Scrapper is complicated as it requires so many different stats

Core engi is in a bad spot. Support engi is a joke. Elixir Gun and MedKit are lackluster

[EvilSnowflake.1453]

@"coro.3176" said:Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb:

That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge".

I was the guy that condi bombed you there, and I'd like to note that the bleeding and weakness you received were from boon corruption. Not saying that its easy to counterplay, just that it wasn't only from being near me. It was from having boons and being near me.

I agree that there is little counterplay to scourge bomb, its the reason we(BAN) run 5-6 scourges in a 15 man composition.I'd like to note though that aside from epidemic, this is basically the first time that a full condi spec has been viable in Zerg v Zerg (Its always been good in 1v1).WvW has been, and still is, dominated by power builds. If you don't agree, come GvG us with a condi comp.

[Catchyfx.5768]

@EvilSnowflake.1453 said:

@"coro.3176" said:Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb:

That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge".

I was the guy that condi bombed you there, and I'd like to note that the bleeding and weakness you received were from boon corruption. Not saying that its easy to counterplay, just that it wasn't only from being near me. It was from having boons and being near me.

I agree that there is little counterplay to scourge bomb, its the reason we(BAN) run 5-6 scourges in a 15 man composition.I'd like to note though that aside from epidemic, this is basically the first time that a full condi spec has been viable in Zerg v Zerg (Its always been good in 1v1).WvW has been, and still is, dominated by power builds. If you don't agree, come GvG us with a condi comp.

People dont realize that, necro will be corupting your boons,nerf or not....its class mechanic.

[SloRules.3560]

@EvilSnowflake.1453 said:

@"coro.3176" said:Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb:

That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge".

I was the guy that condi bombed you there, and I'd like to note that the bleeding and weakness you received were from boon corruption. Not saying that its easy to counterplay, just that it wasn't only from being near me. It was from having boons and being near me.

I agree that there is little counterplay to scourge bomb, its the reason we(BAN) run 5-6 scourges in a 15 man composition.I'd like to note though that aside from epidemic, this is basically the first time that a full condi spec has been viable in Zerg v Zerg (Its always been good in 1v1).WvW has been, and still is, dominated by power builds. If you don't agree, come GvG us with a condi comp.

Condi revenant for second half of HoT era... But it had soo much sustain that it could run viper(and it's not even been nerfed yet).

[otto.5684]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@EvilSnowflake.1453 said:

@"coro.3176" said:Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb:

That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge".

I was the guy that condi bombed you there, and I'd like to note that the bleeding and weakness you received were from boon corruption. Not saying that its easy to counterplay, just that it wasn't only from being near me. It was from having boons and being near me.

I agree that there is little counterplay to scourge bomb, its the reason we(BAN) run 5-6 scourges in a 15 man composition.I'd like to note though that aside from epidemic, this is basically the first time that a full condi spec has been viable in Zerg v Zerg (Its always been good in 1v1).WvW has been, and still is, dominated by power builds. If you don't agree, come GvG us with a condi comp.

People dont realize that, necro will be corupting your boons,nerf or not....its class mechanic.

And that is precisely what the problem is. It is not the condi application, but the boon corrupt. It needs to go away in favor of a mechanic that is balanced.

[Vulf.3098]

@otto.5684 said:And that is precisely what the problem is. It is not the condi application, but the boon corrupt. It needs to go away in favor of a mechanic that is balanced.

Which means Necro will probably be the only viable condi build after this patch when they were the main problem.

[Swagger.1459]

Nothing that was mentioned by Irenio indicates the core issues are going to be addressed. Oh well.

[Daffan.8924]

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@Daffan.8924 said:When is this coming out so I can judge if this game is worth playing any more or not

If you read the op and not just comments you'd know

Yeah but it could be 12:01 I WANT TO KNOW!!!!!

[shadowpass.4236]

Where are the patch notes?