Shortest story ever?

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not quite. It may seem so if you are only comparing to LS season release schedules. You are ignoring however that once they were also able to work on an actual expansion in parallel. Now they are at best at half the content rate of what they were capable of before. Additionally (and that's much worse), the quality of the content they are able to put out plummeted hard as well.

In summary, not only we're getting less content now, but what we do get is of poorer (in large part much, much poorer) quality.

If you're going to include the actual expansions, you also need to include the massive periods of content drought at times, without any releases. It averages out I think. The only time they were able to match what you're saying is LW2-PoF-LW3 and Anet has stated quite a few times that this was not a sustainable pace for them. Note the big gaps before and after that period.

[Rumpus.1234]

3 hours ago, Edge.1653 said:

This update, narratively, could have been an in-game mail.

*mail ding*

click

SUBJECT: Palawa! Ignacious!

BODY: Jo

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

6 hours ago, misterman.1530 said:

Actually, it appears that sitting on the throne nets you an achievement. I just wanted it to be all over and didn't do that

2 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Actually there is an AP for that. 😉

ah, you have to /sit. I was expecting the throne to work as a regular chair.

[Edge.1653]

6 minutes ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

ah, you have to /sit. I was expecting the throne to work as a regular chair.

It seems to have limits on when you can do it. I tried a few times using /sit while standing on the throne and nothing happened : /

[Randulf.7614]

4 minutes ago, Edge.1653 said:

It seems to have limits on when you can do it. I tried a few times using /sit while standing on the throne and nothing happened : /

The achievement can only be done at the end after all the talking. Sitting can be done at any time though. I dd it early on and it sat but didn't pop the AP

Edited May 22 by Randulf.7614

[Edge.1653]

3 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

The achievement can only be done at the end after all the talking. Sitting can be done at any time though. I dd it early on and it sat but didn't pop the AP

Figures. The game is very poor at communicating when you're actually eligible for these kinds of achievements (since they have no buff indicator and are often time-sensitive) and it's frustrating that it remains this way after many years. 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 5/21/2024 at 9:38 PM, Tinstinni.6357 said:

The entire credits at the end actually seems to compete with the update's story length xD

OMG, this is so accurate! 🤣

I also couldn't believe the size of the QA staff ("They exist? Really??"), and I couldn't help asking myself how much worse it would have been without them!? 😱

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

If you're going to include the actual expansions, you also need to include the massive periods of content drought at times, without any releases. It averages out I think. The only time they were able to match what you're saying is LW2-PoF-LW3 and Anet has stated quite a few times that this was not a sustainable pace for them. Note the big gaps before and after that period.

LS3-PoF-LS4. And it wasn't sustainable, because during LS4 they moved most of their dev team to other, non-GW2 projects and had to work with a reduced team. Like now.

So, if your conclusion is that with skeleton crew decent release pace is not sustainable i happen to agree. The solution to it however would not be to release trash tier content. It'd be to not work with a skeleton crew.

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

11 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

LS3-PoF-LS4. And it wasn't sustainable, because during LS4 they moved most of their dev team to other, non-GW2 projects and had to work with a reduced team. Like now.

So, if your conclusion is that with skeleton crew decent release pace is not sustainable i happen to agree. The solution to it however would not be to release trash tier content. It'd be to not work with a skeleton crew.

Are they working with a skeleton crew now? Or are you just assuming?

[Gehenna.3625]

11 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

OMG, this is so accurate! 🤣

I also couldn't believe the size of the QA staff ("They exist? Really??"), and I couldn't help asking myself how much worse it would have been without them!? 😱

To be fair, you can test all you want and it does help a lot, but once the update goes to the live servers it's an entirely different ball game. So especially in an MMO each update/patch will have at least some issues that they didn't encounter in the test environment; simply because the test environment can never be the same as the live environment. 

When I still played SWTOR the bugs were much worse each update/patch, so count your blessings I guess? 🤷‍♂️

[Astralporing.1957]

23 minutes ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

Are they working with a skeleton crew now? Or are you just assuming?

At some time they had 3 teams each of which was individually capable of doing full size LS chapter. They also had a separate, big team that was dedicated to work on expansion (again, full sized one). Recently we've heard however that they are not capable of working on more than a single GW2 project at the same time. That's despite overall Anet employee numbers being quite similar. We also know they have at least one major MMORPG project (that is not GW2) they are working on in the background. Draw your own conclusions.

[Zok.4956]

12 hours ago, Edge.1653 said:

The game is very poor at communicating when you're actually eligible for these kinds of achievements (since they have no buff indicator and are often time-sensitive) and it's frustrating that it remains this way after many years. 

There are buff indicators in the game as to whether you are eligible for these types of achievements. The only problem is that this type of buff indicators is used inconsistently (and it's not used for that actual achievement). In the past it was used much more consistently. Which leads me to the conclusion that the devs have simply forgotten to include it everywhere in the content recently. For me this is another indication that the update for the release of the last part wasn't really finished.

[Zok.4956]

15 hours ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

Anet has stated quite a few times that this was not a sustainable pace for them

Anet never explained exactly what was unsustainable for them at the time. What we can conclude (because NCSoft pulled the plug, which led to the mass layoffs at Anet in Feb 2019) is that putting a lot of resources into multiple internal projects for a longer period of time in parallel with GW2 was not sustainable.

A quote from a reddit information summary from Feb 2019:

Quote

The layoffs were announced last week after NCSoft canceled two unannounced projects that ANet was working on due to neither being released in 2018/2019. Statements from a past dev which have not been confirmed nor denied stated that ANet was constantly moving people from Guild Wars 2 over to these unannounced projects. One was a mobile title as we know ANet was hiring mobile devs over the last few years. We have no idea the titles or types of games or anything else.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/auv0gr/an_overview_of_the_layoffs_and_events_today_at/?rdt=52593

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

Are they working with a skeleton crew now? Or are you just assuming?

It depends on what you call a “skeleton crew.”  We know that they have been (and are) working on at least two mini-expansions at the same time. Therefore, the development team's resources are divided at least in half for each mini-expansion. But I don't think semantics is the crucial issue. What matters is whether players like the quality and quantity of content enough to play the game and want to buy the next expansion. And in this aspect, the current update unfortunately seems to have more “misses” than “hits”.

[particlepinata.9865]

15 hours ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

If you're going to include the actual expansions, you also need to include the massive periods of content drought at times, without any releases. It averages out I think. The only time they were able to match what you're saying is LW2-PoF-LW3 and Anet has stated quite a few times that this was not a sustainable pace for them. Note the big gaps before and after that period.

In my opinion: They should have never let themselves be lectured by content locusts, who consume everything with playing an abnormal amount of hours and intensity. It takes time to create quality content, just like a quality tv drama show needs time to be created. And now there is a tv soap model that artificially stretches everything: Less creativity, less quality, the illusion of quantity.. There needs to be time between release cycles, to actually develop something good.

[soulknight.9620]

Why does noone address the major disrespect towards gamers that were the titles during an interactive phase of the ending. Like really, why on earth would you design it that way? As far as i like to watch credits (not really), but you could at least do it AFTER the quests in that instance were done. Imagine going into cinema and watch adds in the middle of the screen during 50% of the film. That idea was awfull. 

As for the story... im begining to come to a compromise with myself: i like gameplay of gw2 (and thats why i still play it), and i dislike the story for past 2 expacs. Thats why i will just skip any story content there is in full rush mode and forget it exists. 

SUGGESTION: Anet please consider some sort of "skip story" button (optional, so that story enjoyers would still be able to play) for alt characters after you finish it with a main. Since i dont want to play the story of PS/LW1-4/HOT/POF/EOD/SOTO with all of my toons just to get some maps open.  

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

1 hour ago, particlepinata.9865 said:

In my opinion: They should have never let themselves be lectured by content locusts, who consume everything with playing an abnormal amount of hours and intensity. It takes time to create quality content, just like a quality tv drama show needs time to be created. And now there is a tv soap model that artificially stretches everything: Less creativity, less quality, the illusion of quantity.. There needs to be time between release cycles, to actually develop something good.

ANET decided to move to annual "expansions". ANET decided to have 3 monthly "patches". Blaming all of this on people who expect one of those "patches" to include slightly more than an hour of story is laughable.

If they don't have enough staff to provide reasonable amounts of content on top of the next expansion, they should have hired more. After all, the intent of annual expansions was to provide more regular income. I guess it depends on whether that income is being directed to actually developing content for the game players are paying for, or if it's being directed to dividends and manager bonuses. Or possibly to whatever else the company is working on at the moment.

None of this is the fault of the players. Our expectations are based on the model that they've sold to us. Our disappointment is based on their inability to work within the constraints of that model and provide enough actual gameplay.

I'd also add that none of this is the fault of the developers. They didn't decide the delivery cycle, and they aren't responsible for not having resources to provide it. They are doing the best they can in a kitten framework that management have built around them.

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

It depends on what you call a “skeleton crew.”  We know that they have been (and are) working on at least two mini-expansions at the same time. Therefore, the development team's resources are divided at least in half for each mini-expansion. But I don't think semantics is the crucial issue. What matters is whether players like the quality and quantity of content enough to play the game and want to buy the next expansion. And in this aspect, the current update unfortunately seems to have more “misses” than “hits”.

Well, I was including anyone working on upcoming expansions as part of the gw2 crew, since my entire point was comparing the average yearly content pace now and before.

[sylmatyr.1485]

On 5/21/2024 at 9:51 PM, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

they could at least, let us sit in the throne and joke about wanting to be the midnight king or something... =:/

Ha! That was the first thing I tried when Eparch was dead. 😝  That should have absolutely been a hidden achievement.

Edited May 23 by sylmatyr.1485

[Adzekul.3104]

Add my voice to the chorus of disappointment with SotO: too little content, too repetitive when there is content (run around and do events on the map to fill the bar). Not everything was bad, but there was enough "bad" to make me wonder if I got enough value for my money (truly a difficult question to answer).

Edited May 23 by Adzekul.3104

[Arura.6530]

5 hours ago, particlepinata.9865 said:

In my opinion: They should have never let themselves be lectured by content locusts, who consume everything with playing an abnormal amount of hours and intensity.

I think you hit a very interesting point there, that I agree here with.

 

3 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

None of this is the fault of the players. Our expectations are based on the model that they've sold to us.

And I didn't read that as a critic to the players themselves, but to the managing style.

From all my years playing GW2 most people I know in the game are adults with full time jobs and not that much time to play the game, and I feel that is the majority of the player base, BUT that majority is not vocal online. GW2 is known for having an older player base then most games. You then have a minority of the player base that are the so called "content locusts" that have a lot of free time to rush through the content and are always complaining they don't have enough content, they however are VERY vocal online.

I and a lot of the people I know can't keep up with all the story releases, playing a bit of every game mode, achievement farming, working on legendaries, participating in all the festivals and extra events, etc. The game is huge and there's a lot of things to do. But that majority isn't on the forums/reddit/streams complaining of lack of content cause they have busy lives and only play on their limited free time. For those players, the game doesn't lack content and could very well have longer release dates where Anet can work on doing better and more quality content.

But you don't hear them online, you mostly only hear the content locusts. And all the streamer/youtuber culture just highlights that fast paced type of gaming. Many streamers did 24h streams at the launch of EoD and SotO to play through everything and do guides and publish them quickly. That burns through content super quickly, but it doesn't represent the average player in any way. Nowadays streamers are a huge way of measuring success in a game, but maybe they are also hurting the gaming industry in the process. In the last patch I had a comment exchange with a content creator cause he was complaining on the first day of the patch that it was very grindy to fill the mastery bar to be able to craft leggy stuff, and it was made worst cause he had to do other grindy stuff before. He got burned out doing all that cause he needed to do a guide of that ASAP. The average player doesn't grind everything they need to do a legendary armour the first day of the patch.  But you keep hearing theses complains that don't represent the majority of the player base.

For me Anet's mistake is that they have a mostly working older busy player base, and for some misguided reason are managing their game trying to pander to the content locusts (that will never be happy no matter what Anet do, btw) just because they are louder, and in the process Anet is hurting their loyal player base that actually doesn't mind waiting a bit more for better content. 

4 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I'd also add that none of this is the fault of the developers. They didn't decide the delivery cycle, and they aren't responsible for not having resources to provide it. They are doing the best they can in a kitten framework that management have built around them.

And I 100% agree this is clearly a business decision, made by out of touch shareholders pressuring for profits that don't care about the game or even understand the player base cause they only care about $$$. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Arura.6530 said:

 

And I 100% agree this is clearly a business decision, made by out of touch shareholders pressuring for profits that don't care about the game or even understand the player base cause they only care about $$$. 

You had me until this part.  Of course the shareholders only care about money.  That's their entire reason for investing in a game studio.  They don't care about the game.  They just want a return on their investment in Anet.  Out of touch?  They have no need to be in touch.

 

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

You had me until this part.  Of course the shareholders only care about money.  That's their entire reason for investing in a game studio.  They don't care about the game.  They just want a return on their investment in Anet.  Out of touch?  They have no need to be in touch.

 

And companies like Larian have shown that it's possible to focus on the gamers, and producing a top quality game, and STILL produce a profit for the company.

If you focus on making a good product, the profits will follow. If you focus on making a profit at the same time as producing a good game, you'll get the profits but you're taking a chance. Because if you focus on making a profit and don't really care if the game suffers as a result, eventually you'll stop making money. Because your customers would have taken their money somewhere else.

[Arura.6530]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

And companies like Larian have shown that it's possible to focus on the gamers, and producing a top quality game, and STILL produce a profit for the company.

If you focus on making a good product, the profits will follow. If you focus on making a profit at the same time as producing a good game, you'll get the profits but you're taking a chance. Because if you focus on making a profit and don't really care if the game suffers as a result, eventually you'll stop making money. Because your customers would have taken their money somewhere else.

Exactly, that was my point. A lot of decisions that create more profits don't make for better products (**coof**boeing**coof**) and may lead to less money in the future.  And a lot of times investors only care about making a lot of money fast and don't care if the company fails later, they just skip to the next investment. But from the company and gamers point of view you want a good game and a stable lasting company, and for that you need profits AND a good game.

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

If you focus on making a good product, the profits will follow. 

"The profits might follow," would be more accurate. Businesses making a good product fail all of the time. In fact they fail more often than they succeed.