Wizard Vault makes me nervous about the new expansion

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

Wizard vault was one of the major parts of the last expansion, if ANET are to be believed. A major rework of the rewards system, they sold it as. But really, was it?

They could have added the new currency, added that currency to a bunch of daily/weekly/one off achievements, and given us a vendor that sold the rewards. The exact thing that they've done for every major patch in the last 11 years. We wouldn't have had all the issues about "picking" what type of activities you wanted to include, we could have carried on doing what we used to do and choose which ones we wanted on any given day. We wouldn't have had the issue with only being able to pick 1 or 5 of each reward, leading to the farcical waste of time clicking it again and again. The "fill the bar" style activity would provide the cap on the rewards.

If they'd just used a vendor, we would have had a system that worked BETTER than the one we now have, without the effort wasted on a shiny new UI/UX that is functionally worse and offers no benefits. It was produced purely so they'd have something to hold up as a "feature" of the new expansion.

Is this the way they are operating now? Smoke and mirrors to give the appearance of content? If it is, then how confident can we be that the homestead is going to be good? Or are they going to take some of the features of our home instance, rework it and end up giving us something that is functionally worse? Except with a chance to scatter chairs around it? Are they really making something new in gameplay terms?

I want to be optimistic, I really do. But this expansion has made me very nervous. I think I need to see a LOT more to believe that this isn't just going to be more of the same. I'm holding off pre-ordering for now, because I need to be sold on this; not just the high level "vision" but the nuts and bolts of it. I need to be sure that ANET has genuinely turned a corner and isn't still making questionable design decisions.

Anyone else feel this way?

[bq pd.2148]

17 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I need to be sure that ANET has genuinely turned a corner and isn't still making questionable design decisions.

why start caring about that after so many years?

[Gehenna.3625]

I actually like the Wizard's Vault. Sure it needs some tweaks in the UI, but as far as the system goes I find it much better than the old system. 

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

It was produced purely so they'd have something to hold up as a "feature" of the new expansion.

It wasn't a feature of the expansion. Even those who did not buy SotO have it.

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Wizard vault was one of the major parts of the last expansion, if ANET are to be believed. A major rework of the rewards system, they sold it as. But really, was it?

Well, the Wizards Vault isn't actually part of SotO, even though it was introduced at the same time. The (daily) reward system has been changed for all players. I think it is a kind of major rework of some rewards.

Anet wrote that they want to use the Wizards Vault (via rewards) to better control which content players play. Whether this goal has been achieved is difficult to see from the outside.

The Wizards Vault is also partly a kind of paid Battle Pass. Only those who pay for it can receive certain rewards. The difference to the Battle Pass in other games: In GW2, the "purchase price" of the Battle Pass is basically included in the purchase price of the SotO expansion. This is because players who have not purchased SotO cannot receive various rewards (skins, legendary starter set, ...) from the Wizards Vault. I suspect it will continue like this with JW.

I find the Wizards Vault very manipulative and I don't like Battle Pass systems. But as a player who has SotO and who regularly plays in WvW and regularly completes the weekly reward without changing the way I play: I get more with the Wizards Vault than with the old system. 

 

[Zebulous.2934]

It is an important life skill.  After you have heard what someone has to say, you still need to observe what they do.  If the process they use to reach the result is needlessly complex, or if that process is odd and doesn't alter the result, there is a good chance that the stated motive is a distraction.  There will be additional results besides the stated objective.  A "side effect" may well be a hidden objective. 

Do not trust corporations, they are not actually people (even if the law gives them limited citizenship), corporate motivations do not always coincide with the needs and goals of living things.  Corporations are the new eldritch horrors, they are strange entities.  Always be suspicious in regards to corporate actions.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm just wondering what rewards will be in the vault for JW owners.

[Pifil.5193]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm just wondering what rewards will be in the vault for JW owners.

Spear skins for all the various Black Lion weapon skin sets that didn't have any?

Well, of course they won't have those but one can dream.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Spear skins for all the various Black Lion weapon skin sets that didn't have any?

Well, of course they won't have those but one can dream.

Well, things like the Heavy Crafting Bag and the current set of Legendary Starter Kit: Sets 1 thru 4 require owning SotO.

So will the Legendary Starter Kit: Sets 5 thru 8 require JW? Will other rewards be added that require owning JW like the Heavy Crafting Bag requires SotO?

[Linken.6345]

55 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, things like the Heavy Crafting Bag and the current set of Legendary Starter Kit: Sets 1 thru 4 require owning SotO.

So will the Legendary Starter Kit: Sets 5 thru 8 require JW? Will other rewards be added that require owning JW like the Heavy Crafting Bag requires SotO?

Most likely yes you can see the same thing with eod strikes going from green to blue shareds and only SotO strikes rewarding greens going forward.

If expansion 6 get new strikes then soto strikes will be lumped together with all older strike currency I would think.

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Spear skins for all the various Black Lion weapon skin sets that didn't have any?

Out of all the things that won't happen, this one won't happen the most.

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, things like the Heavy Crafting Bag and the current set of Legendary Starter Kit: Sets 1 thru 4 require owning SotO.

So will the Legendary Starter Kit: Sets 5 thru 8 require JW? Will other rewards be added that require owning JW like the Heavy Crafting Bag requires SotO?

It will most probably continue being pretty much what it is now, except those same/similar additional items will always require having the latest expansion.

Edited June 11 by Sobx.1758

[Farohna.6247]

I like the WV rewards better.  Shoo shoo.

[Luthan.5236]

I just want the Homestead to have a mini farm game like those Facebook or mobile games. Let me hire some NPCs (equip them with some clothes from my wardrobe) and let them farm plants there that they sell to generate ... a different currency. (And upgrading the Homestead not just visually but also to get more of that currency lol.)

The vault will just stay though. I doubt they will remove/change it that fast. And it seems easy to predict that they will just add new sets of armor + the weapon boxes. In a style fitting the next expansions. + the usual stuff. (Legendary box the next one and then the other stuff that stays the same.)

Oh wait ... we still have the coins. (The ones from the previous expansion will be moved to "ancient" so we can buy SotO stuff with coins from EoD while JW will use the other version of the coins.) And the vault works like a vendor ... gated: Some stuff or stuff at certain prices only available a limited time during each season. The older skins get more expensive + you have onyl limited ways to obtain the currency. Redesigning it to wirk like the old system ... would mean having to remove the currency.

Adding a shop where you can buy stuff with gold. (So you can more freely select what to do - cause gold can be earned in different ways.) With either keeping a limit (x items or x times at the price y per season) or without limit. (But without limit it would just be totally normal vendor. Like getting gold in the old system and spending it normally in the game anywhere.)

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

WV will be available to everyone, but the featured items will likely be tied to their expansions. If you want the new WV featured items when JW comes out, you need to own it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Out of all the things that won't happen, this one won't happen the most.

It will most probably continue being pretty much what it is now, except those same/similar additional items will always require having the latest expansion.

Yeah, I assume mostly the same, but was wondering if anything new was being added.

[Hsanrb.1570]

I actually liked the Wizards Vault, I play less, but I can be more meaningful about how I interact with Guild Wars 2. Unless they somehow introduce a cap on wizards vault currency, there is no way they are going to let you run 4 PvE, 4 PvP and 4 WvW tasks for 80 (5*12 + 20 for the daily) currency every day. How this works with homestead might be a more neutral location for people to have more control over their home away from home space. Those of you who advertise full home instance nodes and help people collect all the rewards for purchasing each and every node for their home instance will now have another location for everyone to find you. Then they see all the cool stuff people did with FFXIV housing and said "We can make an instance giving user control and breaking away from peoples home that better reflects your new role in the story."

No one is going to take away any sort of skepticism until the game goes live. At some point you are going to have to put faith into ArenaNet about the features they want to do, and as shown in the past not every single feature is going to hit the mark. Do you want to take that chance, preorder the expansion, otherwise you can wait and see what other people have to say about it. I don't think people need yet another hub to sit around in, we have Lions Arch, Wizards Tower, Arbor Stone, then I think more people hang around Divinity's Reach than any other town but I'm not sure (I play Human so I am probably biased compared to the other home hubs.) I do think the Commander/Wayfinder has kind of outgrown the home district of their capital city a bit, but I don't think having yet another new hub is going to change much.

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

I just want the Homestead to have a mini farm game like those Facebook or mobile games. Let me hire some NPCs (equip them with some clothes from my wardrobe) and let them farm plants there that they sell to generate ... a different currency. (And upgrading the Homestead not just visually but also to get more of that currency lol.)

The vault will just stay though. I doubt they will remove/change it that fast. And it seems easy to predict that they will just add new sets of armor + the weapon boxes. In a style fitting the next expansions. + the usual stuff. (Legendary box the next one and then the other stuff that stays the same.)

Oh wait ... we still have the coins. (The ones from the previous expansion will be moved to "ancient" so we can buy SotO stuff with coins from EoD while JW will use the other version of the coins.) And the vault works like a vendor ... gated: Some stuff or stuff at certain prices only available a limited time during each season. The older skins get more expensive + you have onyl limited ways to obtain the currency. Redesigning it to wirk like the old system ... would mean having to remove the currency.

Adding a shop where you can buy stuff with gold. (So you can more freely select what to do - cause gold can be earned in different ways.) With either keeping a limit (x items or x times at the price y per season) or without limit. (But without limit it would just be totally normal vendor. Like getting gold in the old system and spending it normally in the game anywhere.)

So is that npc getting paid hourly or daily or is it the bad S word?

[Gehenna.3625]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:37 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

It wasn't a feature of the expansion. Even those who did not buy SotO have it.

Well, I see this as splitting hairs. Resources for the expansion were spent on doing this and it was shipped with the expansion. Just because it applies to everyone only means it wasn't exclusive to owners of the expansion but I still see it as a feature of the expansion. It's not uncommon for general QoL updates to be part of an expansion, particularly when they're a bit more resource heavy.

[Ashen.2907]

33 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, I see this as splitting hairs. Resources for the expansion were spent on doing this and it was shipped with the expansion. Just because it applies to everyone only means it wasn't exclusive to owners of the expansion but I still see it as a feature of the expansion. It's not uncommon for general QoL updates to be part of an expansion, particularly when they're a bit more resource heavy.

Any source for the bit about expansion resources being spent on WV?

Developing something intended to be part of the entire game, interacting with all aspects, and choosing to release it at the same time as another big patch does not mean that the two are intrinsically linked beyond the convenience of a release date. My favorite restaurant added two new items to their menu on the same day, no shared ingredients, no link between them. They just didn't want to have to revise and reprint the menu twice.

[Zebulous.2934]

Perhaps it could be said that talent and time, which could have been devoted to the expansion, was spent upon wizards vault.

That stance asumes that employees assigned to WV were not contributing to SotU at all.  It might suggest that without the wizard's vault project, employees would have been assigned to work on the expansion. Though it is possible that those personnel would have been assigned to work on a different game entirely if WV didn't exist.

[Zebulous.2934]

I suppose that people will group the new swimwear with the Janithar Wilds expansion.  

[Gaiawolf.8261]

15 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I suppose that people will group the new swimwear with the Janithar Wilds expansion.  

Ohh? So Janthir can get a cool beach to hang out on! Yay!

[Zebulous.2934]

8 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Ohh? So Janthir can get a cool beach to hang out on! Yay!

I just meant:  If people are thinking of Wizards Vault as  a SotO feature.  Then I expect they will think of the new swimwear as a Janthir feature.

Since Janthir is supposed to be a group of islands I do expect beaches. 

I don't think that Janthir is tropical though.  On the other hand it may feel tropical to bears.  Perhaps the Kohdan we know will be scandalized by how little the native bears are wearing?

[Gaiawolf.8261]

9 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I just meant:  If people are thinking of Wizards Vault as  a SotO feature.  Then I expect they will think of the new swimwear as a Janthir feature.

Since Janthir is supposed to be a group of islands I do expect beaches. 

I don't think that Janthir is tropical though.  On the other hand it may feel tropical to bears.  Perhaps the Kohdan we know will be scandalized by how little the native bears are wearing?

I mean it is called the Wizard's Vault. It's not that much of a stretch.

Oh! Now a want a Kodan coverup for my swimsuit! Make it happen, Anet. 🙃

[DeanBB.4268]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:46 PM, Linken.6345 said:

So is that npc getting paid hourly or daily or is it the bad S word?

You mean Skritt?