Balance Changes Coming

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I bet 100g that they fuck it up and condi will be stronger somehow.

[Silv.1723]

The problem is when you have multiple condi dealers...you end up with tones of damage really fast...no way to clear or survive it at all.And this is what anet is trying to fix...like DeadlySynz.3471 said above. I think normally every class should have a counter class...which is normal in any game. I think no one wants a class damage dot or direct damage to be op all the time. The problem is everyone feels/wants their own char/play style to be above average. I don't believe this will fix much...the wvw/pvp is extremely unbalanced. From the info we got so far i don't see it as a nerf. More like a dot balance. In small scale fights people will have more time to clear the condis. But with the speed and stack they are applying it will not be a big difference. A lot of people would say that this kind of change can even be a positive one for the build slow condis. The damage output will be harder and longer. I will still use my condi clears skills and after 3 sec i will have them back on me with my condi clear skills on cooldown. Let's wait the patch, test and than talk about the results. Is healthier than assuming the dead of condi or the buff of condi. It is a delicate subject regarding the fact that is not a class specific change but an entire range of classes from condi warrior to scourge.

[Odokuro.5049]

A very welcomed change to Conditions and how they behave, a war of attrition just how it should be. Now, we shall see who really is a skilled Condition user is and who just isn't.

[Rennie.6750]

@Silv.1723 said:The problem is when you have multiple condi dealers...you end up with tones of damage really fast...no way to clear or survive it at all.And this is what anet is trying to fix...like DeadlySynz.3471 said above. I think normally every class should have a counter class...which is normal in any game. I think no one wants a class damage dot or direct damage to be op all the time. The problem is everyone feels/wants their own char/play style to be above average. I don't believe this will fix much...the wvw/pvp is extremely unbalanced. From the info we got so far i don't see it as a nerf. More like a dot balance. In small scale fights people will have more time to clear the condis. But with the speed and stack they are applying it will not be a big difference. A lot of people would say that this kind of change can even be a positive one for the build slow condis. The damage output will be harder and longer. I will still use my condi clears skills and after 3 sec i will have them back on me with my condi clear skills on cooldown. Let's wait the patch, test and than talk about the results. Is healthier than assuming the dead of condi or the buff of condi. It is a delicate subject regarding the fact that is not a class specific change but an entire range of classes from condi warrior to scourge.

So what does this achieve? Instead of massive condi spam you can counter we'll get one shots from power builds.

[Zero.3871]

fun fact. its not important if anet nerf condis to ground or just a little bit. people will not stop crying unti condis are deleted from game. and then they will still flame necromancer because they can cast wells, or minions, whatever, they just want flame this class.

but perma invul mirage while faster than a thief, while one shot potential or 20 stacks confu every 5 sec all accept as viable. because all people play mirage. GG. xD

[Odokuro.5049]

@Zero.3871 said:fun fact. its not important if anet nerf condis to ground or just a little bit. people will not stop crying unti condis are deleted from game. and then they will still flame necromancer because they can cast wells, or minions, whatever, they just want flame this class.

but perma invul mirage while faster than a thief, while one shot potential or 20 stacks confu every 5 sec all accept as viable. because all people play mirage. GG. xD

Well I will give you the advice as SO many condition users have given in the past to defend their broken cheese build and gameplay.

Don't attack the Mirage when their invuln, because that's wasted attacks, oh dodge roll to avoid those one shot attacks, and be sure to use those condition cleanses to remove those Confusion stacks, ok?

[Rennie.6750]

@Zero.3871 said:fun fact. its not important if anet nerf condis to ground or just a little bit. people will not stop crying unti condis are deleted from game. and then they will still flame necromancer because they can cast wells, or minions, whatever, they just want flame this class.

but perma invul mirage while faster than a thief, while one shot potential or 20 stacks confu every 5 sec all accept as viable. because all people play mirage. GG. xD

There's a problem with necros but all other condi classes are fine really. This balance patch is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Choppy.4183]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@Zero.3871 said:fun fact. its not important if anet nerf condis to ground or just a little bit. people will not stop crying unti condis are deleted from game. and then they will still flame necromancer because they can cast wells, or minions, whatever, they just want flame this class.

but perma invul mirage while faster than a thief, while one shot potential or 20 stacks confu every 5 sec all accept as viable. because all people play mirage. GG. xD

There's a problem with necros but all other condi classes are fine really. This balance patch is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Well, and at least one variant of condi mirage could use the hit this change will give. I was dueling a guy today who was testing it out and who said himself that the build was ridiculous. Frequent application of double digit stacks of confusion and torment, plus lots of defense.

[SnowPumpkin.1809]

They have to give clears a chance to work or what's the point? In WVW basically the other team condi bombs you and game over, no stopping it.

[Rennie.6750]

@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:They have to give clears a chance to work or what's the point? In WVW basically the other team condi bombs you and game over, no stopping it.

Cleanses are already working well. If you've got too many conditions applied to you then you were in a bad spot and facing power opponents would have you killed in under 1s. Current condis are insanely forgiving and leave plenty of room for counter play.

It may sound a bit overdramatic but I'm kind of used to be the Cassandra of video games, and right now I can tell you that once eles and revs start replacing necros, you're all going to cry and beg for the condi meta to come back, because the alternative is far worse. If you're complaining about non corruption necro condis it means you truly have no idea about what the replacements are and what they can do - all without a single counter in the entire game.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:They have to give clears a chance to work or what's the point? In WVW basically the other team condi bombs you and game over, no stopping it.

Cleanses are already working well. If you've got too many conditions applied to you then you were in a bad spot and facing power opponents would have you killed in under 1s. Current condis are insanely forgiving and leave plenty of room for counter play.

It may sound a bit overdramatic but I'm kind of used to be the Cassandra of video games, and right now I can tell you that once eles and revs start replacing necros, you're all going to cry and beg for the condi meta to come back, because the alternative is far worse. If you're complaining about non corruption necro condis it means you truly have no idea about what the replacements are and what they can do - all without a single counter in the entire game.

At least dying instantly to power builds will be less laggy than dying to 25+ stacks of everything. The bright side, right? Oh wait it'd lag regardless. Nvm.

[SnowPumpkin.1809]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:They have to give clears a chance to work or what's the point? In WVW basically the other team condi bombs you and game over, no stopping it.

Cleanses are already working well. If you've got too many conditions applied to you then you were in a bad spot and facing power opponents would have you killed in under 1s. Current condis are insanely forgiving and leave plenty of room for counter play.

It may sound a bit overdramatic but I'm kind of used to be the Cassandra of video games, and right now I can tell you that once eles and revs start replacing necros, you're all going to cry and beg for the condi meta to come back, because the alternative is far worse. If you're complaining about non corruption necro condis it means you truly have no idea about what the replacements are and what they can do - all without a single counter in the entire game.

When your one player with only a certain amount of condi removal and you are being spammed by multiple necros you cant keep cleansing. If your melee like guardian (which it is now if you run staff) you may not have long range and only a certain amount of cleansing with long cool downs. So basically your stuck in one spot while they hit you on the ground with condi multiple times. I see many guilds using this as a tactic and it wins hands down every time even with another guild using cleanses. So it really can't be denied, the proof is out there and Anet knows it. They do it because they know there is an issue with it not being able to be removed and being abused. I think with the elite classes now they should add a new skill slot to all of our UI's so we can counter a bit more.

[DeceiverX.8361]

What I don't understand is how people are still saying they'll be useless for zergs.

With higher duration comes a higher capability of the DoT's still existing after resistance and immunity effects end. If you actually focus on coordinated ramping and corruption efforts, you can punish with conditions way harder than currently in ZvZ since you'll still be ticking full after most of these effects expire. Most of the tactic in ZvZ for negation condition effectivity isn't in cleanses but using resistance and immunity effects into the initial spike of condition damage to let everything expire. It's also still worth noting that condition builds can run full defensive stats via dire/tb and still deal a lot of sustained damage.

All it does is really nerf the no-skill low-risk condi bomb builds that are over-performing and have over-performed for like four years. These builds now need to play smart to ramp up and play around defenses, and people can now build to counter power builds and condi builds again like they used to rather than just rushing every cleanse possible in the game.

Also, power builds are way easier to counter and generally impactful hits are more visible and predictable. Protection and high toughness negate the damage in-build, and blocks/evades are more effective skill-per-skill since condition skills deal more damage per attack than power builds in most cases, so a responsive block after an initial burst or into a combo usually has more value since the subsequent hits may not land, and the effective-done-damage in most cases will be less in most cases. Cleanses still have essential use against power builds, too, such as curing disabling conditions which if left on can decide a fight, meaning a varied set of tools is still necessary to win; just that deciding on when to use them is more impactful than just spamming mitigation on cooldown and trying to dig deep enough into full removal of both the control and DoT aspects of conditon play, which both can get re-applied quickly since it's the focus of the build, unlike its power counterparts.

[vana.5467]

@trueanimus.4085 said:

1. necros and every other class that has a condi burst, has to have that burst to make them viable in WvW and PvP... i mean come on.. if we have to ramp up our damage like we did back in vanilla, then there is no way we can be compeditive in these areas with all the interupts, spell breaking bubbles and condi clears the game has since HoT and PoF.

The ramp up time is the sole justification for gear sets like dire and trailblazer. If condition builds were to keep their frontloaded damage, they should have to give up their defensive stats instead. I'd be fine with either, to be honest.

@Rennie.6750 said:It may sound a bit overdramatic but I'm kind of used to be the Cassandra of video games, and right now I can tell you that once eles and revs start replacing necros, you're all going to cry and beg for the condi meta to come back, because the alternative is far worse. If you're complaining about non corruption necro condis it means you truly have no idea about what the replacements are and what they can do - all without a single counter in the entire game.

If condition damage gets gutted from a zerg perspective, people will rightly complain about hammer rev because it's a stupid build that ruins fights, but they will happily accept it over another condi meta. Hard-counter based gameplay is inherently anti-competitive. Removing the condi dominance may not immediately set things right, but it sure as shit is a big step in the right direction.

[Napo.1230]

Don't worry condi lovers as long as dire/trailblazer exists cheese will still exist.

[santso.9201]

Amount of cleanses fb brings when played with metabuild just will shut down condis in large scale if there is serious reduction of stacks. Like even now according to dps meters scourge does on average double the dmg when using cele instead of trailblazer against groups that know how to play. Tradeoff is that cor hits 12k instead of 8k. Like what creates the actual downs is not scourge, its hammer rev. Scourge and sb just enables rev to do dmg due debuffing, corrupting and cc:ing. Groups who die to condi just dont know how to position, bring good builds or forgot how to click that stamina bar(l2p issue).

[mulzi.8273]

This change will amount to little or no change in the condi, no-skill meta we are in. Until Anet addresses the rate at which the condis reapply and the amount of condis some classes can pile on you almost instantly, this is moot.

[Galmac.4680]

You are complaining that the conditions of a group of condi classes are too deadly, but the damage of a group of dps classes, that even kills you faster, is ok? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Galmac.4680 said:

1. You are complaining that the conditions of a group of condi classes are too deadly, but the damage of a group of dps classes, that even kills you faster, is ok? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

that is a ferocity issue, 200 to 250% crits builds from range on aoe spam gameplay, ANet just need to make classes start with 0 instead the 150% base.

It is a game towards carrying players on offensive.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:They have to give clears a chance to work or what's the point? In WVW basically the other team condi bombs you and game over, no stopping it.

Cleanses are already working well. If you've got too many conditions applied to you then you were in a bad spot and facing power opponents would have you killed in under 1s. Current condis are insanely forgiving and leave plenty of room for counter play.

It may sound a bit overdramatic but I'm kind of used to be the Cassandra of video games, and right now I can tell you that once eles and revs start replacing necros, you're all going to cry and beg for the condi meta to come back, because the alternative is far worse. If you're complaining about non corruption necro condis it means you truly have no idea about what the replacements are and what they can do - all without a single counter in the entire game.

They really arent. Unless you focus your whole build on defending against conditions and STILL lose it says something. I would say it should be 60/40 In conditions favor, at the moment its 90/10 in conditions favor because of the sheer unending burst application, while also being full bunker. Condition builds are VERY forgiving to play as, to play against they arent. One mistake. Just one and its death. The same cant be said for condition builds because they are bunker, so they take much less direct damage, pretty much every attack or ability they have will have some connection to conditions on it. Add high mobility, teleports, stealth, invuls and such and they are VERY forgiving to play as.

Eles arent much of a threat, in a Zerg fight, they ar VERY easy targets because you just have to look at them and they die, Yes they will deal big damage, that damage can be easily healed through. Non stop applications of burst conditions from half the zerg which is condi based cant be healed through, cant be cleansed through. The good thing is, you take the ele out of the fight and you will be able to with much ease considering they will be targeted by enemy Hammer Revenants, Rangers and Dead eyes. This is a counter. You cant kill a Bunker Condi class anywhere near as easily.

[Odinens.5920]

Power scourge > condi anyway, so meh, whatever. The nerf needed to happen.

[Odokuro.5049]

@Galmac.4680 said:

1. You are complaining that the conditions of a group of condi classes are too deadly, but the damage of a group of dps classes, that even kills you faster, is ok? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Except the group of Power DPS classes have to hit you reliably in order to kill you, unlike Condition DPS classes that can spam attacks/skills at you, miss half of them and still get 8+ Stacks of 5K to 8K Condi-Ticks going.

Removing the Burst and replacing it with a ramp up time, will indeed, make it a war of attrition which is what it should have been, conditions should have never been a burst.

[DivineDreaming.7206]

@mulzi.8273 said:This change will amount to little or no change in the condi, no-skill meta we are in. Until Anet addresses the rate at which the condis reapply and the amount of condis some classes can pile on you almost instantly, this is moot.

This, condi application has been out of control since hot, while self-cleanse has remained the same with the exception of support builds like tempest and firebrand. You can tone down the dmg of condi all you want, but without some sort of different mitigation other than cleanse, condi will still be aids.

Wish they would make vita have condi dmg reduction, would help. Or at least require condi to need 3 stats to be strong like power. Being able to be tanky+dish out lots of dmg is lame.

[Aridon.8362]

I posted this so many days ago and the number of posts blew up just recently. ._.

[primatos.5413]

5 Years and still hoping ? xD .. crowfall soft-release 2018 .. i really hope they do it better :)