Is this program allowed?

[Zedek.8932]

It is not a hack indeed, the question is more why "players" would want that.Some people mentioned it already: You could also make notes yourself as assistance.But saying this overlay is "totally fine" is also wrong.That is like saying playing Tomb Raider or Zelda with a 100% guidebook next to you an achievment or even blind just because "you still have to physically press the buttons on your own, thus it is all good."

It is up to the players themselves if they want to cheese their way trough a game like this. If Anet would want it to be shown, there would be a HUD indicator or other clue of some kind, so I can understand where the OP is coming from.

Excelsior.

[Astralporing.1957]

@STIHL.2489 said:LOL.

If Anet pus a mount skin the store and asks 20 bucks for it. it's P2W.

If someone makes a mod allowing you to optimize your farming to give you an advantage over those that don't use the mod.. it's all well an good...

Seems legit!It doesn't give you an advantage over those that don't use the mod. It gives you an advantage over those that didn't use the mod and didn't put any effort in learning the locations themselves (by, for example, reading Dulfy. Or, in this specific case, wiki). It's just an information tool.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:LOL.

If Anet pus a mount skin the store and asks 20 bucks for it. it's P2W.

If someone makes a mod allowing you to optimize your farming to give you an advantage over those that don't use the mod.. it's all well an good...

Seems legit!It doesn't give you an advantage over those that don't use the mod. It gives you an advantage over those that didn't use the mod

and didn't put any effort in learning the locations themselves

(by, for example, reading Dulfy. Or, in this specific case, wiki). It's just an information tool.

Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

@Blude.6812 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:And your against this because?

all 3rd party hacks need to banned, it only encourages cheating and ignoring bot, reports. Make Bling and ignore all else seems to be the new mantra.

this isn't a hack. Its an overlay that uses the API which Guild Wars provides. TaCO does absolutely nothing to the game other than add things for you to see on your HUD.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@STIHL.2489 said:

Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

Absolutely. But it's free, made by a player, and given legitimacy from ANet. So that nullifies your example completely.

We're not dealing with hypotheticals, but with facts.

[Aeolus.3615]

this is actually something that should be on game has a option to disable and enable .... ROFL:..

if aint damage values Anet wont improve it.... xD

[STIHL.2489]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

Absolutely. But it's free, made by a player, and given legitimacy from ANet. So that nullifies your example completely.

We're not dealing with hypotheticals, but with facts.

I'm not dealing with hypothetical, I am dealing with hypocrisy. If it's not an unfair advantage, because you know, you could just check Dulfy, it should not be P2W.. right?

This is the double standard that players put on the company, and is totally unreasonable.

We defend 3rd party items, everything from WvW maps to DPS meters, to anything else that can give us an edge in the game, but it would cry to the high heavens that it is a carnal sin, if Anet offered the same features or, heaven forbid, asked for money or them.

Just like I asked for an in-game, dps meter, and people had the bare faced audacity to say that the company that made the game itself , could not be trusted to make a decent DPS meter.

[Astralporing.1957]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

Absolutely. But it's free, made by a player, and given legitimacy from ANet. So that nullifies your example completely.

We're not dealing with hypotheticals, but with facts.

I'm not dealing with hypothetical, I am dealing with hypocrisy. If it's not an unfair advantage, because you know, you could just check Dulfy, it should not be P2W.. right?

This is the double standard that players put on the company, and is totally unreasonable.

We defend 3rd party items, everything from WvW maps to DPS meters, to anything else that can give us an edge in the game, but it would cry to the high heavens that it is a carnal sin, if Anet offered the same features or, heaven forbid, asked for money or them.If Anet offered the same feature, i'd be completely okay with it.

Unless

they asked money for that, because

that

is the line beyond which we go into problematic territory. As far as i know, TACO is 100% free and anyone can use it with no price attached to it. And, up to previous version, it was absolutely and officially legal (and likely still is, unless the author messed something really badly in the new version).So, apples and oranges.

@STIHL.2489 said:Just like I asked for an in-game, dps meter, and people had the bare faced audacity to say that the company that made the game itself , could not be trusted to make a decent DPS meter.Well, personally i'd rather there was no dps meter at all. I don't like this feature. Not because it gives an "advantage", but due to other, social considerations.

So, again, not really the same.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

Absolutely. But it's free, made by a player, and given legitimacy from ANet. So that nullifies your example completely.

We're not dealing with hypotheticals, but with facts.

I'm not dealing with hypothetical, I am dealing with hypocrisy. If it's not an unfair advantage, because you know, you could just check Dulfy, it should not be P2W.. right?

This is the double standard that players put on the company, and is totally unreasonable.

We defend 3rd party items, everything from WvW maps to DPS meters, to anything else that can give us an edge in the game, but it would cry to the high heavens that it is a carnal sin, if Anet offered the same features or, heaven forbid, asked for money or them.If Anet offered the same feature, i'd be completely okay with it.

Unless

they asked money for that, because

that

is the line beyond which we go into problematic territory. As far as i know, TACO is 100% free and anyone can use it with no price attached to it. And, up to previous version, it was absolutely and officially legal (and likely still is, unless the author messed something really badly in the new version).So, apples and oranges.

So your whole argument rests on the idea that because it's free, it's fine, and really has nothing to do with the advantage provided.. got it.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"STIHL.2489" said:Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

People call the expansions "pay to win," so I don't think it's all that interesting to consider how people would react to it as a gem shop offering.The point is that TACO isn't violating any of the terms of service. The developer even took time to check with ANet to make sure they weren't crossing any lines. It's an overlay that provides information that anyone has access to.

The fact that the OP thinks it's a problem doesn't make it a problem.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"STIHL.2489" said:So your whole argument rests on the idea that because it's free, it's fine, and really has nothing to do with the advantage provided.. got it.No. My whole argument rests on the idea that it's free, easily available, legal, doesn't offer you any info you couldn't obtain otherwise, and (as i see it) has no negative impact on the game whatsoever.

You are understanding the word "advantage" far too widely. Does it offer some sort of advantage? Yes, it does (and so does Wiki or Dulfy, and several other sites i could name). It's the must-have sort of advantage? Not really, no. Does other people having it has a negative impact on those that don't use it? Not that i see.

In short, i feel that you're doing a lot of fuss about nothing.

[Boulder.3589]

OP, you play the game a certain way, other people play it a different way. You seem to be mad at that because the way other people play nets them more rewards. Taco is like someone using a gps because they dont want to memorise a route or figure out how to use a map. If you like using a map sure go for it but why be mad at gps users or put them in jail?

[MithranArkanere.8957]

TACO is perfectly safe because it uses available API and Mumble API data to draw an overlay over the game, without touching the game at all.

Basically, it saves you time by acting like a person behind your back pointing on the screen where to go. Without affecting the game client.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:So your whole argument rests on the idea that because it's free, it's fine, and really has nothing to do with the advantage provided.. got it.No. My whole argument rests on the idea that it's free, easily available, legal, doesn't offer you any info you couldn't obtain otherwise, and (as i see it) has no negative impact on the game whatsoever.

You are understanding the word "advantage" far too widely. Does it offer some sort of advantage? Yes, it does (and so does Wiki or Dulfy, and several other sites i could name). It's the must-have sort of advantage? Not really, no. Does other people having it has a negative impact on those that don't use it? Not that i see.

In short, i feel that you're doing a lot of fuss about nothing.

See my whole point is the hypocrisy around these programs, because you openly said that if Anet charged for it,i t would be P2W, because it offers an advantage., so of course it gives an advantage to anyone that uses it over those that don't. That's not even a question at this point, if it didn't it would not be P2W.

Then you try to down play the advantage, to justify the use of the program, but then turn around and say if Anet gave it for free, it would not be that bad. So, in the end, its only fine, because it's free, not because of any advantage it offers to the user.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:People call the expansions "pay to win," so I don't think it's all that interesting to consider how people would react to it as a gem shop offering.

This is true, but, people I know are rational have admitted that they would call it P2W if this was put in the store and sold, my point is no the program itself, but the doube standard that game companies deal with.

None the less I am still glad to see Anet had a banner quarter despite the Mountfit P2W outrage.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Has this devolved to bickering? Super. Idk about y'all peeps, but it just feels (after watching the video) TACO/BURRITO is compensating for lackluster game design; not taking advantage of the system to increase profit for a few that use it.

P.s. who cares how I use semicolon?

[Boulder.3589]

So if Taco was a gemstore feature it would be p2w, ok I can agree with that.If pressing M to view world map was a gemstore feature it would also be a p2w advantage, but since its free its not p2w.Taco is free too, so its not p2w. No hypocracy here.

Why are people just throwing around the "p2w" phrase so much these days?

[STIHL.2489]

@"Boulder.3589" said:Why are people just throwing around the "p2w" phrase so much these days?

I imagine that because they believe if they call everything they don't want to spend money on P2W, that they will somehow get it fort free.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:So your whole argument rests on the idea that because it's free, it's fine, and really has nothing to do with the advantage provided.. got it.No. My whole argument rests on the idea that it's free, easily available, legal, doesn't offer you any info you couldn't obtain otherwise, and (as i see it) has no negative impact on the game whatsoever.

And as for every 3rd party tool is covered with "use at your own risk", meaning any damage caused to your account (or PC) done by such tools will never be dealt with by Anet.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@"Boulder.3589" said:So if Taco was a gemstore feature it would be p2w, ok I can agree with that.If pressing M to view world map was a gemstore feature it would also be a p2w advantage, but since its free its not p2w.Taco is free too, so its not p2w. No hypocracy here.

Why are people just throwing around the "p2w" phrase so much these days?

For drama. And because they don't understand what it means.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

@"STIHL.2489" said:

So your whole argument rests on the idea that because it's free, it's fine, and really has nothing to do with the advantage provided.. got it.

So what it seems like you're not getting here is that because it is free, everyone can choose to have or not have this "advantage", which to be fair is a convenience, not an actual advantage.

If Anet chose to make it only available through their gem store though, then it becomes an issue because it excludes people based on financial capabilities, which pushed in P2W territory (even though, once again, this is a convenience not an advantage).

[Astralporing.1957]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:So your whole argument rests on the idea that because it's free, it's fine, and really has nothing to do with the advantage provided.. got it.No. My whole argument rests on the idea that it's free, easily available, legal, doesn't offer you any info you couldn't obtain otherwise, and (as i see it) has no negative impact on the game whatsoever.

You are understanding the word "advantage" far too widely. Does it offer some sort of advantage? Yes, it does (and so does Wiki or Dulfy, and several other sites i could name). It's the must-have sort of advantage? Not really, no. Does other people having it has a negative impact on those that don't use it? Not that i see.

In short, i feel that you're doing a lot of fuss about nothing.

See my whole point is the hypocrisy around these programs, because you openly said that if Anet charged for it,i t would be P2W, because it offers an advantage., so of course it gives an advantage to anyone that uses it over those that don't. That's not even a question at this point, if it didn't it would not be P2W.I actually didn't use the term p2w even once. You did. All i said is that if i had to pay for this i'd likely not be okay with it and would consider it problematic. This doesn't actually mean i'd consider it p2w, because for me it's not that kind of advantage. At best, it would be pay for QoL - it's just i'd rather not see Anet try to monetize quality of life upgrades like that, because that would open the doors to monetizing practically anything. I'd rather the gemshop was for visuals only.

So, please, do not try to put words in my mouth, i don't like it.

[ShadowGryphon.6257]

@Blude.6812 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:And your against this because?

all 3rd party hacks need to banned, it only encourages cheating and ignoring bot, reports. Make Bling and ignore all else seems to be the new mantra.

Not a Hack.It's a mod. One that confers no advantages to the user.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@ShadowGryphon.6257 said:

@Blude.6812 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:And your against this because?

all 3rd party hacks need to banned, it only encourages cheating and ignoring bot, reports. Make Bling and ignore all else seems to be the new mantra.

Not a Hack.It's a mod. One that confers no advantages to the user.

One could argue that optimization of traveling can be an advantage (as time = money). But yeah, Taco is not a hack. It uses API which are released by Anet and any problems caused by API data is on them to solve.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Answer: TacO is an overlay and on the >list<, so I guess it is allowed/tolerated.

Comment:

I really stoped to care about 3rd party programs at all. People who want to use them and feel the urge to use them, should use them. Same goes support-wheels/engines on a bike. If a person feels that the game is only playable with these tools, so be it. AS LONG AS:

• they accept everyone to play the game as he/she wants and not force people to use these tools
• they do not tell other people what they are doing wrong, because they obviously not use these tools or do not care

I am playing the game for a few years now and I am always rolling on the floor, when the discussion comes about professionals and hardcore players. Especially when it comes to fractals, raids but also regular 101 content. You are an elite in this game, when you play with the best class + the best gear + the best build + the best team + the best tools. Mobs and bosses drop like flies, death is nearly impossible and you probably never see any cool moves of your enemies or remember any detail of the area. From my point of view, who grew up with 90s consoles and a few arcades, these guys play on SUPER EASY. Those are the weakest, most thin-skined players arround. If their milk-shake has one sugar-grain too less in it, they throw it away.

I rather enjoy the game in the traditional way. Finding my stuff with my eyes open, steping into traps once in a while. This is how I enjoy the game most. If you enjoy the game with any of these tools, go for it. But keep in mind, you are lowering the difficulty of an already easy game. I have seen the side-effects during the first months of PoF. Several of the quests did not have a dulfy guide or even a wiki entry. Some people just sat down and waited for the guides/articles to be written. We on the other hand had a very exciting time with the new content and the thrill of discovery and success. Ask yourselves if you want to be able to figure out stuff on your own, or keep reading guides and using tools that tell you where to go and what to do. It is your decision after all.

 

[STIHL.2489]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

Oh come off it, if this was a UI feature that you could buy for 800 gems, people would lose their mind and call it P2W, and We both know it too.

Absolutely. But it's free, made by a player, and given legitimacy from ANet. So that nullifies your example completely.

I am not putting words in your mouth, here is you agreeing that you would call it P2W. Not cool to try and discredit me like that.. not cool at all. I am working with what you said.