Living World Season 1 - Should it be back?

[Lonami.2987]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Honestly, if this was as simple as you claim, do you not think this would have been done already and more elegantly than your armchair dev post?If this was simple as "hire a programmer" do you not think Arenanet would have already done this and sold it for gems?

I won't bother explaining how software development actually works, I don't think you would trust me anyway.

Instead, let me answer your question with another question: Why did it take so long to have Super Adventure Box back, when it was obviously super popular? Or why did other simple things, like Mad Memoires or party-access to Toypocalypse take years to get back too? You think they spent 3 years working on SAB to restore it?

The fact is, things being easier or harder to implement is irrelevant, if there's no willingness to do that work in the first place. If ArenaNet believes it's not worth the effort, because people don't want it enough, then it won't happen. There's a lot of things that have a higher priority for them, priorities which often aren't the same as what the players publicly claim to want. People spreading defeatism and excusing the developers instead of supporting the initiative helps no one, neither the players nor the developers.

If you hate LW1 and don't want it back, then just vote and move along. Don't boycott the efforts of other people. It took many months of claiming for SAB to return to actually have it back, and LW1 will require similar or higher efforts.

@ImTasty.2163 said:Would like it if there was an other option. Me personally I would not mind LW1 coming back but not at the cost of delaying future content. I'd rather Anet focus on moving the story forward and not trying to go back and reiterate of something already made.

I would be ok with Z telling us the new LW episode is delayed due to last minute bugs. I would not be ok with the new episode being delayed because they are trying to reimplement LW1.

It should not affect future developments, and be done as a secondary project. It's in the post, right at the end.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:It sounds like an accusation of dishonesty, or rather flat-out lying, from the Devs. They have told us how much work it involves, and even gave an amount of time an episode would take. The OP seems to think different; tell me, OP, do you currently, or have you previously, produced any content using GW2's programming code, production methods, assets, team players? Is that how you are sure how it all works, and how much time it takes?

Yeah, because a business never lies to its customers. Can't blame them, since the community is mostly immature with design decisions, so they'd rather stay silent and give exaggerate excuses to just save face.

What do you think would happen if they were honest and just said "we're not bothering with LW1 because it's not worth the effort" instead? Why do you think they stayed silent about SAB for almost 3 years, and only broke that silence to give an ambiguous response when the community started to get really angry about it? Basic public relations.

The key of this thread isn't discussing about how long it would take, or other technical aspects, it's about showing enough interest to make LW1 worth the effort.

Hell, I'd pay to have it back, and I'm not alone. I do believe LW1 coming back is worth the effort, and I'll keep recruiting people to my side until ArenaNet feels there's enough of us for LW1's return to be profitable in some way or another.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:(Also, I hope your gw2efficiency data was not based on completion of those Achievements, because I'm sure there are players that took part, but did not complete the Episodes' Meta Achievement.)

I put the efficiency link and the achievement names there for transparency. If you check them yourself, you'll notice they're the most completed achievement of each episode, not the meta-achievements. Some of them are really easy, for example, "Voyage to the Bazaar" from Bazaar of the Four Winds was awarded by just visiting Labyrinthine Cliffs, the new zone introduced with the episode.

During LW1, playing an episode and getting no achievements was pretty much impossible, so the most completed achievement of each episode should give a good estimate on how many people played that episode.

@Tasida.4085 said:ALL you need to know about season 1 is in this great vid. COPE and MOVE ON already seriously, geez, smh

You know that video is already linked in the main post, right?

No need to be so hostile, if you don't like the idea, then cope and move on. Let us who want LW1 back discuss about it, and show ArenaNet there's people willing to pay for this content to return.

[Michram.6853]

I think it'd be nice to ressurect LS1, but it seems unlikely- First of all I want them to focus on making S4 good than spending the time on the old content.

[MornJack.3579]

@Lonami.2987Thanks for this thread and the way you've written it. Well documented with really good points.I opened my GW2 account as soon as i could, in 2012. For the beta, is was in. For the pre-lauch, i was in.But i had to quit in december that year. So i missed the season 1, 2 and 3. I only came back in last september.

Since, i bought 2 & 3, but if i got only one regret it's to not being able to play season 1.If only Anet could hear us. I would even be happy to pay (in real monney ! ) to play instanced with the whole Scarlet story.

[Plautze.6290]

As someone who unfortunately missed Season 1, I would be very happy to get the chance to play it.ANet, shut up, make LS1 purchasable and take my money! =)

Sadly, I read enough on this forum to know that it's very unlikely. But a man can have hope, I guess.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

As someone who loved the entire LW Season 1 I wouldn't want it to make a full return because that would destroy the magic.Imagine how boring all the Dragon minions (Shatterer, Sunny, Claw) would be if we could do them whenever we want! Oh... right.You probably remember how epic your first encounter with Tequatl felt (assuming you met him by chance, jumping at you from the water when you just meant to explore the region) And now? Now we just look at the clock, use a WP and kill him.

The fact that LW S1 ended is what made it so special to me. I love running around Tyria with my SO and whenever we stumble over some remnants of LW S1, like Steam Creatures etc, I always have some memories to talk about (She didn't play GW2 when LW S1 was running).I don't have any such memories of any other LW Season in GW2 because I can replay them at any point which makes them.. boring. Everything you can repeat at will becomes dull after a while. That is also the reason why so many people get so excited over the Seasonal events like SAB, Wintersday, Mad King, QUEENS GAUNTLET!!! WINK WINK and so on (besides the fact that they're fun, but they wouldn't be half as fun if we had access to them all the time).

Many of us love pizza but if you had unlimited access to pizza then you would have 4-5 very happy days and then you would start to get sick of pizza.I wouldn't mind beeing able to replay some parts of the LW S1 like the fight against the marionette or the final fight against Scarlet, maybe as a fractal? I don't know. But I wouldn't want the entire Season to be replayable in any way. However I would like to see more story-telling-npc's so that players who haven't experienced Scarlet's War can pick up on what happened and maybe even view some cinematics.

[Lindaklingomat.1253]

I wish that it would come back, I played at the time, but it never crossed my mind that it would be impossible to play at a later day... (Silly, I know) - so... I would like to pay for it, like you can pay for season 2 (and 3 I guess).

[Tasida.4085]

@Lonami.2987 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Honestly, if this was as simple as you claim, do you not think this would have been done already and more elegantly than your armchair dev post?If this was simple as "hire a programmer" do you not think Arenanet would have already done this and sold it for gems?

I won't bother explaining how software development actually works, I don't think you would trust me anyway.

Instead, let me answer your question with another question: Why did it take so long to have Super Adventure Box back, when it was obviously super popular? Or why did other simple things, like Mad Memoires or party-access to Toypocalypse take years to get back too? You think they spent 3 years working on SAB to restore it?

The fact is, things being easier or harder to implement is irrelevant, if there's no willingness to do that work in the first place. If ArenaNet believes it's not worth the effort, because people don't want it enough, then it won't happen. There's a lot of things that have a higher priority for them, priorities which often aren't the same as what the players publicly claim to want. People spreading defeatism and excusing the developers instead of supporting the initiative helps no one, neither the players nor the developers.

If you hate LW1 and don't want it back, then just vote and move along. Don't boycott the efforts of other people. It took many months of claiming for SAB to return to actually have it back, and LW1 will require similar or higher efforts.

@ImTasty.2163 said:Would like it if there was an other option. Me personally I would not mind LW1 coming back but not at the cost of delaying future content. I'd rather Anet focus on moving the story forward and not trying to go back and reiterate of something already made.

I would be ok with Z telling us the new LW episode is delayed due to last minute bugs. I would not be ok with the new episode being delayed because they are trying to reimplement LW1.

It should not affect future developments, and be done as a secondary project. It's in the post, right at the end.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:It sounds like an accusation of dishonesty, or rather flat-out lying, from the Devs. They have told us how much work it involves, and even gave an amount of time an episode would take. The OP seems to think different; tell me, OP, do you currently, or have you previously, produced any content using GW2's programming code, production methods, assets, team players? Is that how you are sure how it all works, and how much time it takes?

Yeah, because a business never lies to its customers. Can't blame them, since the community is mostly immature with design decisions, so they'd rather stay silent and give exaggerate excuses to just save face.

What do you think would happen if they were honest and just said "we're not bothering with LW1 because it's not worth the effort" instead? Why do you think they stayed silent about SAB for almost 3 years, and only broke that silence to give an ambiguous response when the community started to get really angry about it? Basic public relations.

The key of this thread isn't discussing about how long it would take, or other technical aspects,

it's about showing enough interest to make LW1 worth the effort.

Hell, I'd pay to have it back, and I'm not alone. I do believe LW1 coming back is worth the effort, and I'll keep recruiting people to my side until ArenaNet feels there's enough of us for LW1's return to be profitable in some way or another.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:(Also, I hope your gw2efficiency data was not based on completion of those Achievements, because I'm sure there are players that took part, but did not complete the Episodes' Meta Achievement.)

I put the efficiency link and the achievement names there for transparency. If you check them yourself, you'll notice they're the most completed achievement of each episode, not the meta-achievements. Some of them are really easy, for example, "Voyage to the Bazaar" from Bazaar of the Four Winds was awarded by just visiting Labyrinthine Cliffs, the new zone introduced with the episode.

During LW1, playing an episode and getting no achievements was pretty much impossible, so the most completed achievement of each episode should give a good estimate on how many people played that episode.

@Tasida.4085 said:ALL you need to know about season 1 is in this great vid. COPE and MOVE ON already seriously, geez, smh

You know that video is already linked in the main post, right?

No need to be so hostile, if you don't like the idea, then cope and move on. Let us who want LW1 back discuss about it, and show ArenaNet there's people willing to pay for this content to return.

I displayed no hostility actually, re-read post :)The video was for the newer people actually, and yes as a reminder to others. AS is the quote I put up yet again from Mike O'Brien about it not returning ( And we think the community is better served with new episodes.). Sorry you and many others weren't there for WHATEVER reason but newer content is more welcome every time. If anything is brought back let it be Cantha!

[Shirlias.8104]

I want to see different content, even though I do understand those who missed that part.Game needs to move forward ( since we don't have much new content and the few we get is every 3 months, we don't need obviously a remake of the ls1 ).

[Pifil.5193]

This seems to pop up a lot, the devs have said they won't be doing this. They would rather focus on new content for the latest expansion rather than reruns for the base game content.

LS1 content would need to be updated in numerous different ways in order to be compatible with the current game engine and client, it's not just a matter of redoing the "programming" (as if that is somehow trivial).

Who knows just how much the content would have to change in order to get it to world in today's GW2. The maps have to be changed. They would have to add new zones for some of them (old lions arch would need numerous different maps). The instances would have to be updated.

Some events would have to be reworked, those that don't have to be reworked would still need to be investigated thoroughly in order to make that decision.

A reward structure like that in LS2 or LS3 would have to be added, new events and achievements added, new rewards for those of us who have already played the first time around would have to be added. Anyone who thinks that adding a LS1 episode instead of a LS4 episode without adding things for the veterans to do and get would be acceptable is deluding themselves.

The validation effort alone would be enormous. The same as the validation required for any other LS4 episode. Perhaps greater.

[Durzlla.6295]

LWS1 needs to come back in some fashion story wise, the little bandaid they did isn’t satisfactory enough, new players have a huge time gap between the death of Zhaitan and LWS2.

I’d like to see the whole thing come back, but they at the very least need to sit down and make a series of cutscenes to explain all the events that happen, like how we meet rox, broham, Taimi canach, etc etc.

[Vavume.8065]

@Lonami.2987 said:

LW1 had its good and bad moments, and we can definitely recover the good ones.

I like this idea a lot, currently not having access to LW1 is like having a black hole in the game, the content should never have been designed the way it was, sure they tried to do something different, but quite frankly they and we are still paying the price for that mistake today, since this issue will not go away until we have access to all previous content.

I was there during LW1, but I still feel that the content should be available at all times to everyone, I would have far more respect for Anet if they fixed this mistake rather than continue to brush it under the carpet.

Also just want to say Lonami keep up the good work, Anet seems to listen to you, and so they should.

[Menadena.7482]

Since we have the movie of the whole thing maybe we do not need to bring back the whole season? For example, how many people, assuming they were active last year, replay S3 episodes now that S3 is the new shiny? Sure, bring back festival(s) and stuff like that though, we need stuff most of the year anyway to balance out Halloween/Wintersday/Lunar New Year/April Fool's all in less than half of the year.

[MetalGirl.2370]

You people just gotta accept the fact that you missed it and move on. In no other game can you go and demand/ask for content that was going on before you came, tough luck, game has to move on. They shouldn't and can't waste time and resources remaking the whole thing, as most of it was in open world, they would have to make instances and everything.... they should instead focus on WvW, future content and making jeans for light armors and hairs for 4 races because humans got tons and others nothing for 2 years.

[Rauderi.8706]

The best vector for this is probably through Fractals. Even then, it would still require a ton of work, and some content would have to be toned waaay down to be compatible with only 5 people. But, it could be a special Fractal series, and it could be a great way to introduce players to the highlights of the story from Season 1.

As much as Marionette or Attack on Lion's Arch would make good guild mission activities, even those would be locked down to large guilds.

[Vigorous Raven.1826]

On one hand, everyone that wasn't there misses the story (which let's be honest was hideously bad but Anet learned loads from the feedback). Tbh I would only want to see Marionette returned because it was an okay fight that set the foundations for things like silver wastes and dragons stand.

I do feel like the ls1 movie could be a bit more detailed. But in all honesty there isn't much that I'd like to see returned. Just my honest opinion

[Vavume.8065]

@MetalGirl.2370 said:You people just gotta accept the fact that you missed it and move on. In no other game can you go and demand/ask for content that was going on before you came, tough luck, game has to move on. They shouldn't and can't waste time and resources remaking the whole thing, as most of it was in open world, they would have to make instances and everything.... they should instead focus on WvW, future content and making jeans for light armors and hairs for 4 races because humans got tons and others nothing for 2 years.

Ok so they should just focus on the things you want...

[Wintermute.5408]

I think they should at the very least implement back instanced content, and dialogues when possible, filling the rest with explanations like the ones we get in LA. I'm ready to tolerate some gaps in story - because what we have now is just one enormous gap itself.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Lonami.2987" said:The fact is, things being easier or harder to implement is irrelevant, if there's no willingness to do that work in the first place.ANet has, in fact, said that they would like to see LS1 return, too. In this case, it's the effort, not the interest.

People spreading defeatism andPlease don't equate weighing costs & benefits with "defeatism."

excusing the developers instead of supporting the initiative helps no one, neither the players nor the developers.What does that even mean? Are my only two choices to support the initiative or be an enabler of defeatism? I don't think so.You think it's a good priority for the game; not everyone does, including people who would like to see LS1 return.

If you hate LW1 and don't want it back, then just vote and move along.Or you could take your own advice: post just once saying how much you'd like to see LS1 and move on.I'm not sure why you feel that we haven't yet has a "serious" discussion about the topic, when you have started your own serious threads about it.

Don't boycott the efforts of other people.What does that even mean? No one is "boycotting" the efforts of other people. Folks are pointing out just how much effort this would be and how it would prevent ANet from having time to work on other stuff.

It took many months of claiming for SAB to return to actually have it back, and LW1 will require similar or higher efforts.Most of the SAB work could be done by one person and that's why it was able to return: the interest by fans was complementary but not causative.

In the case of LS1, there is so much more effort involved. It is the equivalent of a new expac story or a new LS, it isn't a single instance with a cute them.

It should not affect future developments, and be done as a secondary project. It's in the post, right at the end.ANet has pointed out that it would affect future development. You can keep repeating that you're satisfied that you've covered this point, but I hope you understand if people are skeptical as to whether you can speak for ANet.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:It sounds like an accusation of dishonesty, or rather flat-out lying, from the Devs.

Yeah, because a business never lies to its customers.That's a funny thing to say if you're trying to convince ANet to change their mind about this.

Can't blame them, since the community is mostly immature with design decisions, so they'd rather stay silent and give exaggerate excuses to just save face.If you want the support of others, how does it help to refer to their preferences as "immature" or "exaggerated"?Why would anyone care about "saving face" when the facts are pretty simple: it's a huge undertaking to bring back LS1.

What do you think would happen if they were honest and just said "we're not bothering with LW1 because it's not worth the effort" instead? Why do you think they stayed silent about SAB for almost 3 years, and only broke that silence to give an ambiguous response when the community started to get really angry about it? Basic public relations.They didn't stay silent about SAB. They told us it wasn't a priority, because it was designed originally to be a short term bit of fluff. That bringing it back required redoing the mechanics, so that it could evolve with the game more sensibly.The reason nothing happened for 3 years is that other priorities meant it couldn't even be worked on as a labor of love. Once ANet started getting into their current, more organized routine, that changed.

The key of this thread isn't discussing about how long it would take, or other technical aspects,

it's about showing enough interest to make LW1 worth the effort.

You spent nearly all of the opening thread discussing how long it takes and other technical aspects.If you want to make it about "showing enough interest", then I recommend starting a new thread and not running it as a poll, but leave the answers opened ended.

In fact, the text is easy:"How interested are you in seeing LS1 return? Should it be prioritized over other new stories? Should it take the place of side stories? How closely should the revamp be to the orginal?"

Hell, I'd pay to have it back, and I'm not alone. I do believe LW1 coming back is worth the effort, and I'll keep recruiting people to my side until ArenaNet feels there's enough of us for LW1's return to be profitable in some way or another.That's clear enough.

No need to be so hostile, if you don't like the idea, then cope and move on. Let us who want LW1 back discuss about it, and show ArenaNet there's people willing to pay for this content to return.If you don't want a public conversation about this, post on your personal blog and invite people who support the idea to join you. Since you posted in the official forums, please accept that those with other preferences can and will respond.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I prefer to get build templates instead of old content.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:ANet has, in fact, said that they would like to see LS1 return, too. In this case, it's the effort, not the interest.

Colin said many things and look how good he's doing at Anet.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I prefer to get build templates instead of old content.

Meh.. content that keeps me busy for months..Or an interface option that would i use once or twice a month..Hmmm.... (I’m not against build templates, but build templates are just a nice gimmick. I’ll use them if I get them, but I don’t miss their absence)

[ReaverKane.7598]

Why would anyone not want this i don't know.Honestly i'd rather have a full rework of old content (including some of the less polished aspects of HoT and PoF) with a minor (2-3 HoT or LWS3 sized maps and story heavy) expansion than have another PoF.I wouldn't mind paying 30-40€ for a tiny expansion if a lot of the design flaws in the game were addressed and released as free content otherwise.

To me that would include:

• LWS1 re-release;
• A comprehensive revision and rework of rewards and crafting recipes to get rid of inconsistencies (like Bolts of Damask);
• A rework and revision of overall rewards and vendor prices to become standard (like the abismal difference in price between LWS3 ascended gear and PoF, and get rid of the grandmaster tokens which are nonsensical);
• Rework and revision of core professions (especially Revenant and Necro)
• Rework and revision of UW combat
• Groundwork for more frequent elite specialization releases
• PvP and WvW reworks
• etc.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I prefer to get build templates instead of old content.

Meh.. content that keeps me busy for months..Or an interface option that would i use once or twice a month..Hmmm.... (I’m not against build templates, but build templates are just a nice gimmick. I’ll use them if I get them, but I don’t miss their absence)

You sound pretty optimistic about LW1 reedited content. Months of gameplay? Only if you take 2-3 month breaks between chapters, like we currently have.

[Kong.3280]

I missed almost 75% of LWS1, due to not being active at that time for many reasons, and would very much love to experience the story properly.

[Doam.8305]

@Tasida.4085 said:

@Das Albatross.5062 said:As a newer player to GW2, I would so love for LW1 to be brought back. In playing the expansion content, I have been quite lost as to who the characters are or the history that is being referenced, and reading the wiki doesn't clarify much. I would love to know more of the GW2 story, and I would love to be more invested in the expansion story content. Right now, I find it hard to want to play the story content when I have no clue what is going on, particularly because there was so much foundational content introduced with LW1.

Look at my earlier post, there's an excellent video of S1 (cheers to Dreamy). Pop some corn, grab a drink and watch :) S1 was very hectic and a wild ride with new content every 2 weeks or so. Very busy but as earlier poster mentioned, leave Scarlet dead :) Dev time would be better spent on new content.

You don't read a book or watch a movie only to be told the vast majority of missing information has to be found in some fan made collection. It's not like if you miss watching a movie at theaters that scenes are omitted forever for those who buy and watch at home or in trilogies the second movie is only temporary to be lsot to time after. Currently GW2 is like watching a trilogy of movies but skipping the second entry because the developer wanted to keep it time so you go from the start to the finish only to find all these strangers with no backstories in the later movie.

Such information should always be on the developer to include with the product for the consumer