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Make high gold item untradable outside TP


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@Limodriver.4106 said:plz Make high gold item untradable outside TP, its rediculous ppl are asking for cash insteading of selling them on TP, and goto one of the gold selling website they have 1000+ of each legendary weapon selling for cheap cash..Make high gold item untradable outside TP,How would ANet do this?

goto one of the gold selling website they have 1000+ of each legendary weapon selling for cheap cash.These websites are not under ANet’s control however if someone receives anything from an account that is later banned for goldselling it’s likely that they will lose that gold or item.

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I think selling virtual item in gw2 to another player with real currency is against the TOC use of gw2.. I don't hv exact link to this but I an pretty sure I read it sometimes agoIf you are aware of such dealing and think you should report it by all means send a ticket to support and give time and location and name of player of such event occur

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:Or Anet could just make exchanging in-game items for real world currency against the rules.

(Which they did)But really hard to enforce. There are plenty of people who regulary do RMT and never get any punishment. If a legit player that does not get hacked sells his treasures for RL money there is no way for Anet to proof it unless they are stupid enough to talk about it ingame.

I once reported a friend to the customer support because he offered his account on ebay (with sufficient proof that it is in fact his account despited blurred names), but the account apparently did not get banned. So it looks like Anet cannot do much about it unless people talk about it ingame or something.

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@"Talindra.4958" said:I think selling virtual item in gw2 to another player with real currency is against the TOC use of gw2.. I don't hv exact link to this but I an pretty sure I read it sometimes ago

  1. You may not buy, sell, transfer or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell, transfer or auction) , or offer to transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction, any game Account or game Content, including (without limitation) game characters, character attributes, items, objects, currency, credits or copyrighted material, or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by ArenaNet, Inc., NCsoft, the Service, or our licensors, nor may you encourage or induce any other player to participate in such prohibited transaction(s), except as may be specifically authorized by the Service and by ArenaNet or NCsoft, without first obtaining our express written permission. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct
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As others have said, selling rare and expensive items (I can guess which ones you are referring to) outside of the BLTC is against the TOC, but it's either extremely difficult to prove (especially if no "paper trail" of messages exists in the game) or ANet simply doesn't have the manpower to properly enforce it.

There is ONE way that you can crush this market: you can increase the drop-rate of these items enough so that there is enough supply to create a healthy balance on the TP (because what these players are doing is cornering the market on items that are so rare that supply is limited enough that they can buy up all the available supply). However, this comes with the cost of reducing the "exclusivity" of these items. I personally don't give a skritt's behind about exclusivity, but you might find that this approach creates a lot of unhappy players who feel that their effort has been wasted.

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@"Zaxares.5419" said:As others have said, selling rare and expensive items (I can guess which ones you are referring to) outside of the BLTC is against the TOC,Um, no, selling outside the TP is fine. People having been avoiding Evon's fees since launch and will continue to do so.

What is against the rules is trading anything in the game (goods or services) for real money. And yeah, that can be hard to track down, but some buyers aren't that clever to hide their tracks: if someone's account value jumps by 10k (e.g. by getting a confetti infusion) and they haven't participated in the relevant event and they didn't have 10k gold beforehand, well, that's suspicious enough for ANet to take a look.

The bigger problem is that there are a lot of accounts and lots of reasons for accounts to grow in value. So ANet can't check them all.

There is ONE way that you can crush this market: you can increase the drop-rate of these items enough so that there is enough supply to create a healthy balance on the TP (because what these players are doing is cornering the market on items that are so rare that supply is limited enough that they can buy up all the available supply).That's not quite correct either. There are some players who hoard them (and some of them are indeed interested in making additional money off of it), but the drop rate would be enough to counter that if the TP could handle prices above 10k gold.

However, this comes with the cost of reducing the "exclusivity" of these items. I personally don't give a skritt's behind about exclusivity,I imagine nearly everyone is interested in rare drops because if all drops are common enough, there's won't be any "exciting" drops. For example, even the Sunscythe which has a low drop rate and only one source has dropped to under 100g already. The equally uncommon Sunspear (pun intended apparently) is under 20g. (For some reason, people just love scythes and not so much love for spears-as-staffs.)

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Many players believe certain high-value items like the chak egg sac are worth more than the 10k gold limit on the TP. How are such items sold with assurances that the seller and buyer each get what they’ve been guaranteed? I don’t have one for sale (wish I did), but I’ve wondered this for a while. And what does Anet think of the solution? Why not raise the gold cap on the TP or cut or cap the fees on high value items to encourage TP use more?

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@Aurelian Omenkind.2470 said:Many players believe certain high-value items like the chak egg sac are worth more than the 10k gold limit on the TP. How are such items sold with assurances that the seller and buyer each get what they’ve been guaranteed? I don’t have one for sale (wish I did), but I’ve wondered this for a while. And what does Anet think of the solution? Why not raise the gold cap on the TP or cut or cap the fees on high value items to encourage TP use more?

There’s a forum on Reddit where items are sold for ingame gold. I don’t know the ins and outs but there’s probably trusted middlemen who mediate the transactions.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Aurelian Omenkind.2470 said:Many players believe certain high-value items like the chak egg sac are worth more than the 10k gold limit on the TP.
How are such items sold with assurances that the seller and buyer each get what they’ve been guaranteed?
I don’t have one for sale (wish I did), but I’ve wondered this for a while. And what does Anet think of the solution? Why not raise the gold cap on the TP or cut or cap the fees on high value items to encourage TP use more?

There’s a forum on Reddit where items are sold for ingame gold. I don’t know the ins and outs but there’s probably trusted middlemen who mediate the transactions.

There are some trusted middlemen (the moderators of that subreddit, for example). Also, a number of the buyers and sellers are well-known (at least among the power trading community); they have a lot of reputation at stake when they trade, so I'd trust many of them with a 10k item (some, not so much).

The way the middleman protection works is like escrow:

  • Buyer gives the gold-equivalent items/mats to the agent.
  • Seller gives the item in question to the agent.
  • The agent double checks against the stated offer and then ships the item to buyer, the gold-substitutes to the seller.
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@"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:Why not raise the gold cap on the TP or cut or cap the fees on high value items to encourage TP use more?

I don't think they'd raise the gold cap because it limits how much people are willing to charge for items, even some that don't trade near the cap. It's an "anchoring" number that psychologically restricts how people consider prices. In effect, the typical player thinks, "well, if the absolute-rarest items in the game can't go for more than 10k, then this new widget, which is more common, ought to sell for less."

The bigger problem is that the game is old enough that there are enough people with huge sums of gold and those people have bought everything they can think of (aside from gifting legendaries to everyone they know). They can spend 150k to have 10 confetti infusions because they have more. And it's hard for ANet to release enough new gold sinks to dent those bank accounts, without making the rest of us feel that we're missing out. Imagine if they offered a title for donating 100k instead of 1k: "I'm Filthy Rich, You Know!" The richest among us would spend... and the rest of us would rail against ANet for offering the rich something that we couldn't ever afford.

And the alternative raised by some is probably worse, in many ways. If the drop rate is increased much at all, these items would become common. They'd no longer be something the non-rich dream of getting as a drop. (e.g. look at what happened to Halloween refractors when they drop rate was increased for them). It's pretty difficult to find a sweet spot where the chances are high enough for people to keep trying and low enough that the item retains value.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Um, no, selling outside the TP is fine. People having been avoiding Evon's fees since launch and will continue to do so. What is against the rules is trading anything in the game (goods or services) for real money.

Yeah, my post was referring to any buyers who basically were going outside of the game for trades. I wasn't thinking about grey market trading when I wrote that. That said, while ANet has said that grey market trading within the game is permitted, it's also obviously frowned upon. Players who trade outside of the BLTC are circumventing the TP tax, which is the biggest thing keeping inflation from running amok. If enough players did this, we'd have a major economic problem within weeks. As such, I reserve the right to tut disapprovingly at anyone who trades outside of the TP. :P

That's not quite correct either. There are some players who hoard them (and some of them are indeed interested in making additional money off of it), but the drop rate would be enough to counter that if the TP could handle prices above 10k gold.

I believe that raising the gold cap for trades would come with its own set of problems (namely, it's an admission that inflation is slowly but steadily growing). I don't think it would be beneficial to ANet for players to see something very rare just get more and more expensive faster than they can accumulate the gold necessary to buy it. Even if the item is only a luxury one, it still creates feelings of division and classism that a healthy game environment could do without.

I imagine nearly everyone is interested in rare drops because if all drops are common enough, there's won't be any "exciting" drops.

Which is something that always baffles me. Is a beautiful or pleasing weapon somehow LESS beautiful or pleasing just because it's common? Whatever happened to liking something for its own sake? I simply cannot understand the mentality of people who aren't happy unless someone DOESN'T have what they have.

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@Zaxares.5419 said:Which is something that always baffles me. Is a beautiful or pleasing weapon somehow LESS beautiful or pleasing just because it's common? Whatever happened to liking something for its own sake? I simply cannot understand the mentality of people who aren't happy unless someone DOESN'T have what they have.

There's truth to that! I don't have a single Legendary yet (but I will forge Juggernaut once I finish GoB since Colossus is so cheap) and I transmute all my Ascended weapons into Exotic skins because I just like the exotic skins better.

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@"Limodriver.4106" said:plz Make high gold item untradable outside TP, its rediculous ppl are asking for cash insteading of selling them on TP, and goto one of the gold selling website they have 1000+ of each legendary weapon selling for cheap cash.

The trading system in GW2 is actually fairly liberal. You have two main "legal"/"legitimate" avenues.1 - Use the TP: pay the fee, securely complete transactions with practically 0 risk.2 - Use the mailbox: no fee to pay but there is also no guarantee that your trade will go how you'd like.

RMT (real money transactions) are against TOS and although it's debatable how much these are monitored, there is always the risk of being caught and if proven to be involved, your account can be permanently banned.Consider if you've just bought a legendary weapon via RMT and then get your whole account banned shortly after. Some may see this as a risk worth taking, like dodging taxes.

At the end of the day, sellers outside of the game should really not bother you and limiting the mailing of items is just restrictive with no real reason behind it.

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Its impossible to prove from outside sites.

As an example. Years ago in college I had a friend who played who bought a legendary on Ebay or something. He got it mailed to him in game and sent a pittance and a "thanks, appreciate it!" or something back.

Compare that to the following.

About a year ago my brother in law who has played since launch had a family emergency. My sister (other sister not his wife) went crazy above and beyond to help watch the kids and was generally a living saint about the whole ordeal. She had started playing GW2 just recently. Aside from all the RL appreciation he showed her, he got her the unicorn bow legendary as a gift and sent it to her.

Now if you were to report both of those to Anet, ALL that would show up is.

Player A sent Player B a legendary. Player B sent nothing but a thank you back. For the first one.Player A sent Player B a legendary. Player B sent nothing but a thank you back. For the second one.

One of those violates the ToS, the other doesn't. Determine which and ban them.

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@"Zaxares.5419" said:while ANet has said that grey market trading within the game is permitted, it's also obviously frowned upon.They don't support it, i.e. if you get scammed, they won't do a thing. I don't know that "frowned upon" captures that.

Players who trade outside of the BLTC are circumventing the TP tax, which is the biggest thing keeping inflation from running amok.True; the TP fees are a critical reason why things in this game remain affordable for newbies and people who don't go out of their way to earn gold quickly.

If enough players did this, we'd have a major economic problem within weeks.Sure, but... we're never going to have "enough players" doing this. The TP is simply too convenient. Very few transactions are worth the extra effort and risk.

I always wonder at people who offer 100g items on the gray market.

As such, I reserve the right to tut disapprovingly at anyone who trades outside of the TP. ::pensive:I won't tell you shouldn't tut-tut, but maybe I can offer some reasons you might be sympathetic to some situations. These are all scenarios where goods, coin, and/or services are traded without use of the TP.

  • A relatively poor player gets an unlimited contract from the BL chest. Great, right? But they don't have the coin to list it.
  • A player loves doing world map completion, but hates gathering. They have (from their alts) 30 Gifts of Exploration, worth 12k on the grey market.
  • Back in the day, WvW Commanders used to spend oodles of gold on siege. Their supporters would send gold and blueprints.
  • Someone really wants one of the harder story chieves, but keeps running into a graphic glitch that DCs them during a cutscene. They offer to pay someone else to run it for them (which allows the buyer to turn off their monitor at the right time, thus bypassing the glitch).
  • A friend who needs 7 days of time-gated goods, which you can supply easily today. They later refund you the mats.

That's not quite correct either. There are some players who hoard them (and some of them are indeed interested in making additional money off of it), but the drop rate would be enough to counter that
if
the TP could handle prices above 10k gold.

I believe that raising the gold cap for trades would come with its own set of problems (namely, it's an admission that inflation is slowly but steadily growing). I don't think it would be beneficial to ANet for players to see something very rare just get more and more expensive faster than they can accumulate the gold necessary to buy it.Inflation measure the
total
supply of coin in the game, not the supply in the hands of a few players. Raising the gold cap is a response to some people having enough coin to easily pay for several items at the current cap. Two different issues.

Even if the item is only a luxury one, it still creates feelings of division and classism that a healthy game environment could do without.A healthy capitalist economy is always going to have richer and poorer players. Some of them are going to be realistic about what they can afford and some not; there's nothing a gaming studio can do about that. What ANet can do to promote a healthy game environment is to make sure that everyone has an equal opportunity and I think that's largely true in GW2.

Sure, you & I probably cannot outright come up with 15k for a confetti infusion, but... if we badly wanted one, we almost certainly have spent far more than 15k (over the years) on things we could have lived without. I recognize that I won't have the same liquid cash as someone who farms Istan/Silverwastes for 16 hrs every weekend, but I'm okay with that as I'm not bored out of my skull for 15.5 hrs every weekend.

I imagine nearly everyone is interested in rare drops because if all drops are common enough, there's won't be any "exciting" drops.

Which is something that always baffles me. Is a beautiful or pleasing weapon somehow LESS beautiful or pleasing just because it's common? Whatever happened to liking something for its own sake? I simply cannot understand the mentality of people who aren't happy unless someone DOESN'T have what they have.You're conflating different things. I'm talking about the excitement of getting something rare. That's got nothing to do with aesthetics.

Among my favorite skins in the game is the fiery dragon sword, which is free for GW1 veterans (who completed a certain amount of achievements). Imagine ANet turning it into a random drop from Flame Legion charr. It would quickly become "just another skin" for nearly everyone, It would devalue it as a reward to GW1 fans and it still wouldn't be interesting as a drop, because once we have it unlocked, it has no value to use except as another thing to salvage.

Or take the Mini Griffon Mount. You can only get that from the Griffon adventures and it's a rare drop. So having it tells the rest of us that the owner is good at adventures, something of which it's reasonable to have some pride. And it's also exciting when it first drops, because it's uncommon. Subsequent drops won't have that same thrill, because it only unlocks the one time. The anticipation of what might drop from the reward chest is diminished.

So while it's true that some people get too involved with letting price determine what they want (or what they want to display), it's also true that there are some people at the other extreme, who reskin their legendaries because they'd rather not show anyone any bling. Both types of players are more interested in what other people think that about their own fashion aesthetics. And really, why is there anything wrong with that? Some people might behave badly on account of their preferences, but that's got nothing directly to do with whether there's something inappropriate about the preference.

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You always seem to make these wonderful, insightful and thought-out posts and I have to wonder: where do you find the time to actually play the game? :)

We spend an awful lot of time waiting in this game :(Some people complain about how long it takes to wait for e.g. crystalline ore to refine into ingots; I use the time to type a bit of this or that.

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@Talindra.4958 said:I think anet is shutting one eye too unless someone is reporting specific trading and if it hurts other player directly.

Well just today there was a player in DR boasting how he has regularly used the goldselling site PBK to buy gold/items and was trying to argue that goldsellers are legit businesses that should be allowed in game and are fair and secure ways to get ahead.So just how are these kinds of players getting away with it and so often allegedly.Why does ANET allow ridiculous items to be traded for silly season amounts of gold via TP when its obvious it's just the way to move RMT around in game accounts.

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Exactly what is the threshold for a “high gold item”? What’s to stop them from using the next cheapest thing? What’s to stop them from using stacks of something else? The thing is that restricting the trade of specific items isn’t going to be all that effective and just hurts the honest players.

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Last time i checked dredge were our enemies not buddies (save very few exceptions) so let's not act like dredge and try to turn this game communist.We're all free man (save those who are married) and we have the safety and security offered by Black Lion Trading Post whenever we want to make a sale. If someone wants to play it unsafe taking big risk for ..medium reward (no taxes) he can, but it's then on him.

We can't and shouldn't forbid players from making their own choices. Who knows? One poor sod that send a legendary or two for sale to "a friend" and never received payment, might one day not sign a really shitty real life deal, cause earlier he got scammed in gw2 and learned not to trust others at face value, especially when big money is involved.

One way or another if someone takes a gamble (like selling outside of safe BLTP), if he suceeds the gains are his and only his. Therefore it's just as fair that if he gets cheated and scammed, the consequences are also his and only his, and there is no need to hear or cater to his bitching.It's player's job to use their head right, and it's game's job to punish such ppl if they don't. Good lesson for the future.

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