[Expansions 3, 4, and 5] Ideas for 27 new elite specializations

[Kas.3509]

I'd love mesmer to turn into bard-ish like buffero/healer. I love the idea with running around with intruments and sing(shout) as well and to be able to be as good healer as druid. That's the only thing mesmer does not offer yet.He already has a good power base builds, condi mirage spec, buffer/tank chrono spec.

If not healer then I guess power spec... but I'd prefer to get healer one.

[Brujeria.7536]

I like some of them mainly Botanist and Necrophage are neat.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@"Orpheal.8263" said:About Golemancers...

This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-SpecSomething lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were Dwarf, Norn and Charr monks, even in the explicitly atheist Fierce Warband. There was even a Naga monk called Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna. Many Asura Golems and Djinn were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses, M.O.X. could use them and had special skins for them.

[Lonami.2987]

I changed the name of Soulbinder to Spiritbinder, which sounds far better, and doesn't overlap with Soulbeast.

Also, feel free to check my redesign series, where these 27 ideas get explained a bit better, from a redesign perspective:

Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

So far, there's updates for necromancer, guardian, revenant, and warrior. The others will be coming soon when I have some free time.

@Bast Bow.2958 said:Hey Lonami. First of all, I love your ideas. I was enthousiastic too when you posted your cantha expansion idea, and I’m not enthousiastic much anymore lately considering gw2. I find a round of applause well deserved for these specilizations.They’re very creative and I really love almost all of them. I especially like the first and last expansion ideas. As a ranger main I’m loving all 3 ideas of swarming pets, having both active at the same time, and botanist as well, botanist is awesome!

It’s obvious you intertwined gw 1 lore into these ideas, that really gives me a gw 1 nostalgia feel. It also makes me feeling all gw 1 professions should be in 1 expansion, not divided in two. But I am following why you did it the way you did, and I’m hoping very much more gw1 professions will make it into gw2 as a specilisation.

I’m not a big fan of the second exp-idea. The charr technology in GW2, even though I think it fits very well and it’s written very good as well, is just not my taste.

Again, thanks a lot for these awesome ideas. I’m hoping Anet will take a peek into them and maybe more.

Glad you liked them =).

@Lily.1935 said:The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

I prefer splitting undeath and death into different things, you know, zombies on one side, and ghosts in another. Necromancer was always about raw damage and corruption, while ritualist is more about support and positioning.

I get your points, but for me, necromancer is incompatible theme-wise with ritualists. I think it would work better through guardian or revenant.

@"hugo.4705" said:The great question is, for golemancer, do you have an golem near you that you can control like a ranger pet, OR you are the golem/inside? And so you have a skill like deadeye to switch between normal form- golem form?

It's a transformation, similar to the WvW golem, armed with just his fists. What makes it special is that you can equip kits while transformed, the fists retracting to be replaced by weapon heads.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/InquisitorTo make it more clear about inquisitor, they are no link with mesmers apart maybe psychic-controlled weapon but again, that is technology.Can't imagine a mesmer with a rifle.

Inquisitor mesmers are based on the White Mantle inquisitors. High Inquisitor Xera is a mesmer, thus the link.

Mesmers can already use pistols, so the rifle is a natural evolution.

@Kas.3509 said:I'd love mesmer to turn into bard-ish like buffero/healer. I love the idea with running around with intruments and sing(shout) as well and to be able to be as good healer as druid. That's the only thing mesmer does not offer yet.He already has a good power base builds, condi mirage spec, buffer/tank chrono spec.

If not healer then I guess power spec... but I'd prefer to get healer one.

The biggest reason mesmer is getting a bard elite specialization is that, by using illusions, you could spawn your own orchestra, clones and phantasms playing various musical instruments together with you.

The gameplay can then focus on correct timing of the skills, which would be like musical notes.

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@"Orpheal.8263" said:About Golemancers...

This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-SpecSomething lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were

Dwarf

,

Norn

and

Charr

monks, even in the explicitly atheist

Fierce Warband

. There was even a Naga monk called

Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna

. Many

Asura Golems

and

Djinn

were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses,

M.O.X.

could use them and had

special skins

for them.

Yeah, in GW1 every core profession except elementalist had skills related to one of the Six Gods. That doesn't mean the professions were exclusive to human religion at all, they just had some skills that happened to carry their blessings. Those who didn't play GW1 assume monks and dervishes wouldn't work without the gods, but that's a huge misconception, their link to the Six Gods was as strong as that of warriors, rangers, mesmers, and rangers.

[Lily.1935]

@Lonami.2987 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

I prefer splitting undeath and death into different things, you know, zombies on one side, and ghosts in another. Necromancer was always about raw damage and corruption, while ritualist is more about support and positioning.

They are compatible. Necromancer currently uses spirits. Shades are desert spirits. They are not physical as you put it, they are spiritual. The necromancer uses rituals. Its in the description for it on the official website. The necromancer of GW2 is less like GW1 necromancer than it probably should be in my opinion. Minions are no longer animated but summoned, likely from the underworld. But the undead constructs they make have always looked like horrors of the realm of torment. Which is some weird lore stuff we can get into another time since it has interesting implications about necromancer lore.

Much of the way necromancer's Hexes worked in GW1 was that they'd use spirits to haunt their target. Spiteful Spirit fits this. The Theme makes sense, necromancer deals with souls, and so does Ritualist. And Necromancer is all about Undeath. Minions are Undead. Spirits are undead. You're really splitting hairs with a distinction that just isn't there.

Want a lore example of a necromancer doing what a ritualist should be doing? Here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Straw

Interestingly, Marjory is Canthan. She uses Turquoise in her color scheme and communes with spirits. And her sister is bound to her family blade. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seraph_Belinda_Delaqua

If any character was to become a ritualist in the story, Marjory is your girl. She's got the history, the talent, and the right nationality. She is currently a necromancer, not a revenant. I know you like your pet idea that revenant should be it, but the evidence doesn't suggest that. What is shown is that the necromancer is the best fit. I've given other examples of their similarities that only necromancer and ritualist share that strengthens their connection.

But even if that doesn't convince you a mechanical one might. Ritualists had a few things that defined them in GW1. One of those things neither a necromancer nor a Revenant can fill currently, but its too difficult a task to achieve on either. Spirit weapons is the first one and the one neither achieve mechanically. Although a necromancer or a revenant could be given a skill to cause a soul link to awaken the allies weapons, this isn't currently something in their design. Necromancers make soul links with their opponents to drain them, but that's not really what I'm talking about.Urns are another aspect of Ritualist that is important to their overall design. Ashes of a hero seems like it could fit the revenant thematically, but mechanically the mechanic of urns was replaced by Bundles. Or Engineer Kits. Something that can be held that replaces the first 5 skills. Now, mechanically the necromancer already has the perfect design fit for this. Shroud. Shroud is extremely similar to Kits in that it replaced the first 5 skills. Where it differs is the locking out of the user's utilities. A feature necromancer players have been fighting against for years. Its not a stretch at all to replace shroud with an urn. In fact the necromancer's specializations are very well equipped to support urns. On Revenant this mechanic would be awkward much like the Celestial avatar form is on Druid.Spirits are probably the most iconic aspect of Ritualist. And both necromancer and revenant could achieve spirits. But there is a major difference between the two. Revenant's turn over skills wouldn't exist for the spirits and they'd have to function much like the warband does on Kalla. The Revenant against struggles mechanically because of their reliance on utility swapping to maximize their abilities. Spirits would either force revenant to stay on whatever legend gives them in or be as genaric as Kalla's warband. In one case its more in line with what the ritualist's design wants but antithetical to the revenant's specialization design. On the other hand it works with the specialization's design but feels and behaves nothing like the ritualist's design that was intended for GW1. Either way its not a good compromise. Necromancer has none of these problems. In fact, the necromancer's design could be tightened up just a bit in blood and death to add even more flavor and utility to the spirits as they are. Because necromancer is a summoner profession already and the way part of blood and death are designed specifically for minions these traits could be streamlined to include other summons such as spirits. Vampirism was even a GW1 ritualist skill and could also be applied to Spirits along with minions. Minion traits could be merged and broken down into a single grand master while new traits could replace them to influence Summoning in its place, giving both Minions and spirits new utility.Spirits had 3 distinct play styles. Healer, Protector and Aggressor. To fit these themes into just 6 skills is quite the task, but absolutely could be done. The heal skill healing allies and sacrifice for a stronger burst heal. 2 offensive utility spirits that attack the enemies, 2 defensive utility spirits to defend against damage and conditions and the Elite skill which would have to be Call to the Spirit Realm which summons Multiple spirits. The currently CAN'T be done on Revenant with their 5 skill limit. But that's something I have been fighting against for a while so I won't count it against them since I want changes to necromancer as well. But to really pull out the flavor of the spirits they need their turn over skill to sacrifice themselves for unique abilities. Something the Revenant would struggle with but the necromancer could be right at home with. In fact the necromancer could even change the nature of how they're sacrificed based on if they are using their shourd/urn or not! Added utility and flavor that the revenant just can't do.There is also one more thing the ritualist was known for that I want to point out. And its the nail in the coffin for the revenant as it is something the revenant absolutely can never achieve. And that's the summoner's aspect. Not just calling spirits into the body, but the idea that the unique mechanic of the ritualist was Spawning power. This gave bonus health to All summoned creatures. Not just spirits but minions as well. And because of this the Ritualist was the only other profession to be trusted with the role of Minion master aside from Necromancer. Boon of creation and explosive growth were two Ritualist skills that modified their summoning to cause healing, damage and energy gain. Something that Comboed so well with necromancer that if Ritualist was its own profession players would be demanding that ritualist get a minion master elite specialization in the future. (Heck, the Egnineer, the ritualist's mechanical replacement in GW2 has been the topic of minion builds for a while now). This special theme of the ritualist can be filled if combine with necromancer. But only necromancer. The summoner's elements of the ritualist is best suited with the profession that supports that ideal best. Necromancer. And if Ritualist comes into the game at some point the best 2 options for it are either to make its own profession or to make it an elite specialization for necromancer.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@"Orpheal.8263" said:About Golemancers...

This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-SpecSomething lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were

Dwarf

,

Norn

and

Charr

monks, even in the explicitly atheist

Fierce Warband

. There was even a Naga monk called

Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna

. Many

Asura Golems

and

Djinn

were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses,

M.O.X.

could use them and had

special skins

for them.

Yeah, in GW1 every core profession except elementalist had skills related to one of the Six Gods. That doesn't mean the professions were exclusive to human religion at all, they just had some skills that happened to carry their blessings. Those who didn't play GW1 assume monks and dervishes wouldn't work without the gods, but that's a huge misconception, their link to the Six Gods was as strong as that of warriors, rangers, mesmers, and rangers.

Exactly - and the skills with references to the gods in their names were still used by non-human NPCs!

Anyway, I was going to give some feedback about some of your ideas, but it mostly ended up being questions. Here they are:

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Elementalist - Dervish: The dervish arts of Elona were thought lost since long ago, but they have seen a resurgence after Palawa Joko's defeat. With the Six Human Gods gone, they have now turned back to their original roots, focusing exclusively on elemental magic. Their main ability is the transformation into djinn avatars, and their weapon of choice is the scythe, followed by wells to replace their now cast aside divine prayers. Holding strong at close combat, their newly acquired skills should not be underestimated.

Despite what other people have said, I think Ele seems like a good choice for Dervish - especially with the link to djinn. How do you envisage this working? I guess the transformation would be on F5, and would depend on your current attunement. I'd like to see a transformation that interacts with your skills, like the old Dervish avatars did, rather than replacing your skillbar like GW2 transformations normally do. Ele isn't normally resilient enough for Dervish-style gameplay - maybe giving them something like the djinn's elemental armour mechanic could compensate for that? I'm imagining the wells would be somewhat like the old Mystic Twister and Mystic Sandstorm.

• Thief - Assassin: Canthan culture is famous for many things, but the most shocking has to be their tolerance for paid murder. Death by unnatural causes is commonplace, and assassination is a refined art. Stealing is a petty maneuver when you can just gear yourself with all sort of deadly murder tools, like chains, claws, blowpipes, and more. When these tools are not enough, greatswords can finish the job quickly. Practicing combat stances since they are born, assassins are the most dangerous foe one can face in the southern continent.

I'd love to see Assassin come back, but greatswords seem like a strange choice. What was your reasoning there? I'd be more inclined to go with axes, since they can plausibly have a fast attack speed and supposedly used to be used in GW1 Assassin builds for high critical hit chance. My favourite thing about GW1 Assassin was how the attack chains worked, and I'm not sure how you'd bring that into GW2, where attack chains are automated.

• Revenant - Ritualist: The lands of Cantha are famous for their deep connection to the Mists, and the birthplace of the ritualist arts. Sharing that same connection, it is natural for revenants to follow in their path. These new teachings let them summon spirits connected to each of their legendary stances, strengthening their connection to each legend and its powers. Their weapon of choice is the scepter, and they have also learned to invoke the power of the legendary ritualist, Master Togo, summoning ashes to support their allies.

Togo makes sense as a Canthan legend to invoke (although Saint Viktor, Archemorous and Kuunavang all seem like sensible choices too). Would you have any control over the spirits, like Scourges do over Shades? It seems like that could get very complicated while also controlling Ventari's tablet, but passive spirits might be too dull with the other legends.

Overall, I think you've got some great thematic ideas, but there's not much about what the new skills and profession mechanics would actually be like, so I find it quite hard to judge what these would bring, gameplay-wise.

[Lonami.2987]

@Lily.1935 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Lily.1935 said:The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

I prefer splitting undeath and death into different things, you know, zombies on one side, and ghosts in another. Necromancer was always about raw damage and corruption, while ritualist is more about support and positioning.

Want a lore example of a necromancer doing what a ritualist should be doing? Here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Straw

Interestingly, Marjory is Canthan. She uses Turquoise in her color scheme and communes with spirits. And her sister is bound to her family blade.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seraph_Belinda_Delaqua

If any character was to become a ritualist in the story, Marjory is your girl. She's got the history, the talent, and the right nationality. She is currently a necromancer, not a revenant. I know you like your pet idea that revenant should be it, but the evidence doesn't suggest that. What is shown is that the necromancer is the best fit. I've given other examples of their similarities that only necromancer and ritualist share that strengthens their connection.

That's a pretty good point, but then I don't understand what's the point of the Scourge at all, since to some point shades already have the positioning gameplay you'd expect from a spirit master ritualist.

I still prefer to split zombies and ghosts into two different things. Revenant has the ritualist title, the blindfold, and a few other things.

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@"Orpheal.8263" said:About Golemancers...

This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-SpecSomething lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were

Dwarf

,

Norn

and

Charr

monks, even in the explicitly atheist

Fierce Warband

. There was even a Naga monk called

Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna

. Many

Asura Golems

and

Djinn

were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses,

M.O.X.

could use them and had

special skins

for them.

Yeah, in GW1 every core profession except elementalist had skills related to one of the Six Gods. That doesn't mean the professions were exclusive to human religion at all, they just had some skills that happened to carry their blessings. Those who didn't play GW1 assume monks and dervishes wouldn't work without the gods, but that's a huge misconception, their link to the Six Gods was as strong as that of warriors, rangers, mesmers, and rangers.

Exactly - and the skills with references to the gods in their names were still used by non-human NPCs!

Anyway, I was going to give some feedback about some of your ideas, but it mostly ended up being questions. Here they are:

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Elementalist - Dervish:
  The dervish arts of Elona were thought lost since long ago, but they have seen a resurgence after Palawa Joko's defeat. With the Six Human Gods gone, they have now turned back to their original roots, focusing exclusively on elemental magic. Their main ability is the transformation into
  djinn avatars
  , and their weapon of choice is the
  scythe
  , followed by
  wells
  to replace their now cast aside divine prayers. Holding strong at close combat, their newly acquired skills should not be underestimated.

Despite what other people have said, I think Ele seems like a good choice for Dervish - especially with the link to djinn. How do you envisage this working? I guess the transformation would be on F5, and would depend on your current attunement. I'd like to see a transformation that interacts with your skills, like the old Dervish avatars did, rather than replacing your skillbar like GW2 transformations normally do. Ele isn't normally resilient enough for Dervish-style gameplay - maybe giving them something like the djinn's elemental armour mechanic could compensate for that? I'm imagining the wells would be somewhat like the old

Mystic Twister

and

Mystic Sandstorm

.

• Thief - Assassin:
  Canthan culture is famous for many things, but the most shocking has to be their tolerance for paid murder. Death by unnatural causes is commonplace, and assassination is a refined art. Stealing is a petty maneuver when you can just gear yourself with all sort of deadly
  murder tools
  , like chains, claws, blowpipes, and more. When these tools are not enough,
  greatswords
  can finish the job quickly. Practicing combat
  stances
  since they are born, assassins are the most dangerous foe one can face in the southern continent.

I'd love to see Assassin come back, but greatswords seem like a strange choice. What was your reasoning there? I'd be more inclined to go with axes, since they can plausibly have a fast attack speed and

supposedly used to be used

in GW1 Assassin builds for high critical hit chance. My favourite thing about GW1 Assassin was how the attack chains worked, and I'm not sure how you'd bring that into GW2, where attack chains are automated.

• Revenant - Ritualist:
  The lands of Cantha are famous for their deep connection to the Mists, and the birthplace of the ritualist arts. Sharing that same connection, it is natural for revenants to follow in their path. These new teachings let them summon
  spirits
  connected to each of their legendary stances, strengthening their connection to each legend and its powers. Their weapon of choice is the
  scepter
  , and they have also learned to invoke the power of the legendary ritualist,
  Master Togo
  , summoning ashes to support their allies.

Togo makes sense as a Canthan legend to invoke (although Saint Viktor, Archemorous and Kuunavang all seem like sensible choices too). Would you have any control over the spirits, like Scourges do over Shades? It seems like that could get very complicated while also controlling Ventari's tablet, but passive spirits might be too dull with the other legends.

Overall, I think you've got some great thematic ideas, but there's not much about what the new skills and profession mechanics would actually be like, so I find it quite hard to judge what these would bring, gameplay-wise.

I don't like being too specific, because people then focus on meaningless things like numbers or usability, instead of the design. I'm writing more about them on each of these threads:

Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

Note that those are written in a redesign context, so some of them might be slightly different from what you see here, but the general idea stays the same.

• Dervish: Mechanic skill F5 transforms you into your current attunement's djinn. It's pretty much an elemental Reaper Shroud, replacing weapon skills. Once transformed, you can switch attunements, switching your djinn's attunement as well. Once the transformation is over, all attunements get a considerate cooldown, so you better switch to the one you want before the transformation ends. The djinn form uses a new resource bar, which increases by applying boons to yourself or others.

• Assassin: You get martial art kits. There's three to choose from: Chain Whip (Kusarigama / Meteor Hammer), Claws (Fist weapon), and Blowpipe (Ranged). They work like engineer kits, but are located at the mechanic bar. You can equip the one you prefer at mechanic skill F3. The core mechanic (Steal) remains unaffected by this upgrade. Greatswords are used like two-handed longswords (Nodachi). The assassin is less about stealth, and more about face-to-face combat.

• Ritualist: You get a customizable belt, three slots (F2, F3, F4) where you can equip spirits. There's 10 to choose from, and you take the three you prefer. They work much like engineer turrets. They use the ammo system, so you can place multiple of the same type at once. With no traits, the maximum of deployed spirits is 5, the oldest one despawning if you summon a 6th. These spirits are available no matter your current legend.

[Zlater.6789]

My initial though when seeing this is, is it realistic?

Just look at the weapons, the first expansion is going to be hell because they literally have to make 2 new weapon types and make a matching skin for every pre-existing set. Then you will have to make 1 more again. Underwater weapons is at least somewhat realistic, but not entirely new types. Remember that there are a lot of other weapons that you didn't even mention, like hammer or axe. Also there is not any significant reason you cant reuse a weapon that exists on a pre-existing e-spec, as long as its not used on the core spec.

Consider this:Dervish - You're kinda screwed because weaver already has stances and scythes area already super common as staff skins, your best bet is Great Sword if you really wanna resurrect dervish.Reaver - Come on, spears are 2h, just 1 spear lolForge Master - Off-hand mace fo shizzleNecrophage - How about hammer or sword?Technopriest - Tbh scythes just seems like a bad fit, and why not run staff anyway? rip fashion wars if they don't add enough scythe skins.Bloodhound - The play style of a crossbow would bring literally nothing new to ranger. Consider off-hand sword, it would be a better fit thematically with deception skills.Changeling - Focus dude, there are practically already skins that look like vials for focus xD if you dont like it, consider scepter.Swarmhost - Consider Short-bow, it is also a short range 2 handed projectile weapon, its just held a little differently and shoots faster.Occultist - I like the idea but I sincerely think this doesn't fit is why I mention it. Engineer doesn't have any interaction with magic, let alone an "otherworldly pet." If you wanna stick with it give it a scepter, give it a pointing stick and put its damage elsewhere.Botanist - Trident or shield would probs be a better fit without having to invent an entire new weapon class.

I just think that if you wanna seriously suggest something, make it somewhat realistic. Put yourself in the shoes of the developers having to do the work and ask yourself, if I were them could I realistically do this. Don't forget that adding a new weapon type also means 2 new legendaries and less development resources as they will also need to create more new skins for upcoming sets aswell. Not to forget achievements and creating new animations for every race and gender etc...

[ugrakarma.9416]

Necromancer - Necrophage: The Blood Legion has resurrected their darkest banned ancient art, too terrible for even the Flame Legion to use. Necrophages feast on their enemies, harvesting their blood and flesh. Instead of channeling their powers into a shroud, they use them to rear their own fleshreaver servant, from youth to adulthood. This process creates a repugnant parent-children link between both, securing the loyalty of the demon. They wield greataxes to butcher their enemies efficiently, and chant mantras during their ritual sacrifices.

i would pay any amount of money for this!

[Lonami.2987]

@Zlater.6789 said:they literally have to make 2 new weapon types and make a matching skin for every pre-existing set.

They don't need to do that, and in fact, pretty much no game does that, and you don't need to look far, GW1 didn't when they introduced dagger, spear, and scythe, and even GW2 stopped releasing new underwater weapon skins long ago.

@Zlater.6789 said:Dervish - You're kinda screwed because weaver already has stances

My dervish doesn't use stances, but wells.

@Zlater.6789 said:Reaver - Come on, spears are 2h, just 1 spear lol

Someone didn't play GW1, and didn't meet any Krait Nimross during his adventures.

@Zlater.6789 said:I just think that if you wanna seriously suggest something, make it somewhat realistic. Put yourself in the shoes of the developers having to do the work and ask yourself, if I were them could I realistically do this. Don't forget that adding a new weapon type also means 2 new legendaries and less development resources as they will also need to create more new skins for upcoming sets aswell. Not to forget achievements and creating new animations for every race and gender etc...

You're the one being unrealistic here, by raising expectations just to achieve some sort of arbitrary "balance" with old weapons, when we don't need any.

Also, no new animations needed. Only the scythe needed new animations, but the ones added for revenant and daredevil staff in HoT solved that problem long ago. You already see enemy NPC dervishes using these animations, further proving my point.

[Fenom.9457]

@"Orpheal.8263" said:I have to say for my opinion are most of these ideas nonsense sadly and don't like them, because they are either based on the core class and theme completely unfitting, have terrible names, partwise totaly unfitting names, or have absolutely no chance at all to ever see the day of light like Paragon and Dervish - when will people stop it about these two. Paragon is nothign but just everythign what the Guardian already is, the GW1 version absolutely offers nothing at all, what the Warrior, nor the Guardian already provide in a superior way!Just some examples of your very weird ideas ...:

Occultists as Engineer E Spec... Do you even know, what an Occultist is??Just in case you dont't, a Necromancer is an Occultist, a Ritualist is an Occultist, but absolutely not in any way, shape or form ever an Engineer.Occultism has to do with blood, death, spirits, souls, rituals, demons, curses and hexes, dark magic so to say and is not anything that has to do with technology and engineering...

Thieves and Soulbinders..eh what?? since when have thieves powers to bind soukls, which is basically what Necromancers do ... if at all, or a Ritualist does/did back in GW1..

Technopriest, ..makes as name absolutely no sense and sounds totally terrible .. Technomancer in fact makes more sense !! Thats the correct fantasy term for such a kind of class!

Inquisitor makes for mesmer absolutely no sense, for a Guardian Spec maybe..cause an Inquisitor is no illusionist or so of any kind of form.. an Inqusitor is comparable with a Sentinel, like some kind of law enforcer who hunts down people for heresy performing blasphemism in front of others, and back in history, when the church has had more power to the point, that the teachings of the church were seen like "everybodies highest law" to serve under those holy rules, the curch used its inquisitors to make sure, that this situation stays so and punish everybody for their disbeliefs..until the church came somewhen finally back to senses, that you cant punish people for it, only because they dont beleive in god, or have an other religion ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitor

The closest alternative definition and term for Inquisitor is basically the Seeker as a class/spec name, which is in essence why I was strongly for it, that Dragonhunters should have been renamed into either Inquisitors or better even Seekers, due to these terms fitting much better to the overall gameplay and themse design of this Elite Spec ...

To come to an end, if I would have made a topic like yours, I think I would have come up rather with a better fitting list concept like this. (with rev being redesigned) and certain earlier E-Specs getting renamed/changed)

Expansion:-----------------3 (Land of the Dragons)-----4 (Wars of Demons and Gods)---- 5 (Age of Utopia)Warrior:--------------------Gladiator (Staff)----------------Berserker (Greataxe)-------------Legionnaire (Greatshield)Guardian:------------------Patron (Warhorn)-------------Warden (Greatshield)-------------Seeker (Whip)Revenant (Ritualist)-----Soulbinder (Whip)------------Mystic (Scepter)--------------------Oracle (Focus)Engineer:-------------------Alchemist (Axe)---------------Technomancer (Staff)------------Forgemaster (Mace)Ranger:---------------------Beastlord (Whip)--------------Shaman (Scepter)-----------------Forager (Greataxe)Thief:------------------------Assassin (Chakram)----------Rogue (Longbow)------------------Saboteur (Torch)Elementalist:---------------Summoner (Chakram)------Bender(Whip)----------------------Spellslinger (Pistols/Longbow)Necromancer:-------------Witcher (Sword)--------------Torturer (Whip)--------------------Executioner (Greataxe)Mesmer:--------------------Minstrel (Shortbow)---------Bladedancer (Chakram)----------Dreamcatcher (Whip)

I love your xpac names, any ideas behind them?

[hugo.4705]

I love all these spec names too, but what if they are not planning to add more weapons? So no Chakram, Whip or Greatshield/Greataxe? I would really enjoy to have more ranged weapons for elementalist like rifle/longbow, also for warrior, maybe add pistol, they already have a ton of CC weapons available... maybe axe for thief... Engineer need seriously more combinations like mace available for both hands and adding spear as aquatic weapon.

[Orpheal.8263]

Thanks, Thanks for the praises of you both :D.

@"Fenom.9457"About your question of concepts behind the Expansion Names, sure I have had ideas behind those names.

Land of Dragons - Besides of Cantha beign already by lore called the Land of Dragons, the basic idea of this expansion name is naturally, that we wil lreturn to Cantha, the Land of Dragons, which woudl be the very much demanded Underwater Expansion, which would add besides of a reexplorable Cantha with like 5-6 Canthan Map Areals via the 5th Season of Living World a high focus on Undewater Maps and a Story based on the Deep Sea Dragon that lurks arouund the unending ocean that lies between Cantha and Tyria, whiel the story of the expansion itself woudl be based on the surprisign discovery, that there are two more yet undiscovered elder dragons, which awaken in Cantha to make the elements, which are covered pe Elder Dragon complete, because to make the 8 Elements complete, there are 2 Elder Dragons basicalyl missing, this counts also too for 2 very important Bloodstone Magic Types, if we consider, that every Elder Dragon has 2 things for which they stand for.

Primordus for example stands for Fire & Destruction, Zhaitan for Darkness & Death, Mordremoth for Mind & Earth (Plants), Jormag for Ice & Corruption, Kralkatorrik for Lightning and Alteration, DSD for Water & ??? (Denial most likely), with that being said there's missing an Elder Dragon which represents Wind/Aggression most likely as combination and lastly Light & Preservation.So the idea of Land of Dragons was to be a Expansion, whose Expansion Story is driven around specifictly these two canthan Elder Dragons which awake at the same time and work as some kind of Yin & Yang against each other, whose job of the player it is to brign those two into balance, to brign back normality and peac into the regions of Cantha that are affected by this battle for magic/power between these two dragons, which are different, than the elder dragosn of cantha, because they don#t see in the player races a danger, they try to turn them into allies eahc in an own different way, so that they are basicalyl the new "Factions", which kind of replace the Luxons and Kurzicks with the Pact beign literally a third neutral Faction that has its own goals, which both other sides don't like out of different reasons, because of them havign two different goals where one is good and one is bad for each other of the dragon factions.Meanwhile the main story of this faction woudl be based on the imperial city of kaineng and a war of them with Tengu Rebells - you can guess it with Tengus becoming finally a playable race which start with an own new different personal story from the Dominion of Winds, the Tengu Enclave in Kryta near Lions Arch with Sanctum Cay being their hometown.Land of Dragons woudl brign is bach the Cantha of our dreams with an enticing story which shows us elder dragons in a completely different way, with elder dragons more wise and intelligent, than all the others before, which know about the situation in which tyria is in, but are this time in conflict of each other in a dragon war for their own territory and sadly Cantha has become the battlefield in middst of it - the Land of Dragons, with Cantha now calling for help, because the situation has grown quickly out of control for them and they havign heard,. that there is a force outside of Cantha, which is to be known being able to kill Elder Dragons, so Cantha calls for help in hope that we might bring Cantha back to peace, while LW season 5 as prequel to that expansion would handle about the kind of temporal defeat/takeout of DSD to make the route to Cantha free and safe.

Behind Wars of Demons and Gods is the idea, that the defeat of Balthazar and all the struggles agaisnt the elder dragons has massively weakened the seal of Abaddon, so that he was able to send out in a short moment of time in which the seal was shortly collapsed for a tiny moment of time - enough to send out a glipse of his power, which manifested itself into 7 Harbingers, seven exceptional powerful demonic Champions of Abaddon which were send out by him on the mission to break his seal completely, so that he could return and claim back his place as God.These harbingers are such an immense danger, that the Gods immediately feel their presence. Abaddon managed to become somehow while beign sealed more powerful, because the seal had a leak, which allowed Magic to flow in. So whenever a elder dragon got defeated, whenever a bloodstone was destroyed, whenrever one god got defeated, Abaddon gained more might, without the others recognized it, while at the same tiem the divine seal got weaker - especially after Balthazars defeat, because he was a very important part - the most powerful one as God of War, which was part of that seal keeping that seal intact.Abaddon ,as the Originator of Magic, who gave the world of Tyria the gift of Magic is in rage about it, how that gift has been misused and broght by us into complete disbalance and he stilly very angry about it, that the other gods sealed him away and wants revenge, following his masterplan of defeating them all and the remaining Elder Dragons, to claim completely back all Magic of Tyria and become the one and only being, which reings over all Magic and for this he needs Aurene has his vessel/sacrifice to break the seal, and reincranate through her body as a new divine Elder dragon which unifies all magic. the point is, our heroes find a way to stop him and with the help of Aurene make his plan basically come true, but just without abaddon existing anymore.The acts of this expansion will ring in the Age of Utopia.

The direct sequel expansion to the second one - Age of Utopia would be based on the idea, that in the war of demons and gods, the remaining gods and Abaddon with his band of his 7 Harbingers, would have defeated each other at the end of that war at that point, where we - the players can help through our asuran masterplan by Taimi to turn Abaddons masterplan against himself, so that he can be stopped and defeated, for the costs that the remaining gods have to sacrifice themself in that outstanding intense battles between them and the harbingers, while we have to go for Abaddon to save Aurene.At the end of the day, when everythign is over and the Age of Utopia has been ringed in and we realize, that the racres of tyria live in now a world with no gods and no demons anymore and a world where Magic is standing at the brim of becoming completely out of control, with no Elder Dragons beign there anymore as well, which could balance it out by eating the massive overdose of magic up, with Aurene being the last dragon of Tyria, it is our last mission to discover the last bists of Tyria north of it, returnign to the Eye of North and the northern shiver peaks, the charr homelands, islane of janthir ect. in search for some ancient old relics, where are said by legends to have the power in combination with the Scepter of Orr to bring magic into harmony with one being, sealing huge amounts of magic in a safe way into the body of somebody who's able to contain it - Aurene.But Joko has somethign agaisnt this, our eternal living villain, because he knows, if we succeed with our plan of turning Tyria back into a beloved peaceful utopia in which all magic is back in control and harmony within one powerful being that is able to contain all of it, without becoming mad and corrupted, then his eternal life wound find an eternal end and he woudl fall to ashes, because his eternal life is based on magic being not under control, with him beign able to take and use it as he wants to prolong this way his lifetime.Living World Season 4 won't lead us to defeat Joko, therefore hes too important and we unable at that time to make eternally an end to him finally, because of too much magic being still uncontrolled in flow in Tyria and there being no clear ruler over all magic, which would be basically Aurene, once we would have defeated all Elder Dragons, with Fire, Ice, Wind and Light being later defeated by Abaddon and his harbingers, without us havign a chance to stop that in the 4th expansion)First through our actionsin Age of Utopia we would become able to make Aurene become powerful and gornw up enough to withstand the immense ancient ritual, a very old mission that has Livia been given on 250 years ago by a seer which was at a time when Glint was still alive a servant of her, who was given the task to do the task, if he finds not someone better fittign for that mission, which was luckily Livia, with the seer giving her the vision of glints prophecy of the future of her childs, when it was mortally wounded by one of zhaitans champions, which goit then defeated by Livia through her scepter, which was the the point, where she realized, that she must find a way to live long enough over all the centuries of time, so that she could do one day that important task of prforming this ritual with the Scepter of Orr, which would make Aurene able to contain all the magic of the world as its ruler of magic, so that the Auge of Utopia would ring in to Tyria from then on.

I know, this is a very farstretched concept of mine, but it is one, where I think it would make sense for the story of GW2, if it would find this way to its end based on Aurene becoming in the end the story's most important character, which closes the cicle of destiny, in where everything started with dragons, and where everything has to end with a dragon naturally.

[Orpheal.8263]

@hugo.4705

About my concepts here beign based on new weapons being implemented.The concepts would work basicalyl also, if they are done with already existing weapons.

Greataxe could become also just a Spear Reskin with Spears becoming Polearm Weapons for land Combat, cause it wasn anormal, that greataxes also had pikes on their tops of the axe blades, because thats in the end what a halberd is, a polearm weapon with a pike and an axeblade.

Chakrams could be also turned into just Focus Reskins with the focus beign just turned for the thief intio a Throwing Weapon, surte it woudl look then a bit weird with other Focus skins, but a thief just trowing at you everythign they get into their hands is also a way of improvised self defense lol and its about time that Offhand weapons should be turned also into becoming useable in main hands also too. it plays absolutely no role, if i hold a shield in left or right hand, it plays no role, if i hold a torch in left or right hand, same coutns for warhorns and focus items ...

Greatshields coudl be just shields in the end, which are now beign just in MH and which have whil being used in MH a recognizeable bigger size, than shields used in offhand.

Whip replacement would become complicated, I have to admit.Howev,er this game is 6 years old soon in 2 months and a week around. its about time, that anet shows finalyl, that they can add also something great, which addes more build diversity and character diversity - which is best done by addign new weapon types.

Chakrams, Whips, Greatshields and Greataxes are basicalyl the most easiest new weapontype together with Crossbows, ANet could eventually possible add somewhen.They also don't have to retroactively add for new weapon types all black lion skins, that woudl be idiotic and way too much effort, unless they want to do it, and then most likely via Gemstore, to have this way for some time an easy new income of money which appeals the completionists, which want to have a complete weapon set for a skin for absoletely all weapons, even for new added weapon types, even of those skins are then not retroactively part of the skin collection achievements and only earned through buyign them from the gemstore eventually.

But to keep the combat of GW2 fresh, interestign and fun, its about time, that anet adds some new weapon types and the best and most senseful way to do that is by addign them in combination of new Elite Specializations that introduce these new weapon types as part of their gameplay designs.It is also great content to advertise expansions with, cause people will defineterly buy expansions, if there are new elite specs, among it, which add new weapon types.its the exact same reasoning, why Anet added the Rev via HoT and not just via some kind of free Feature Pack, because a new class added via expac raises the sales of the expansion. same will do definetely new added weapon types.

[Lonami.2987]

All the redesign threads now have their own take on these elite specialization ideas, feel free to check them out:

Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

They get into the mechanics in much more detail, and even if they were expanded in the context of a redesign, most of its ideas can be applied without no redesign required.