How would you redesign the revenant?

[Warlyx.6732]

start removing energy cost from weapon skills and work from there...u dont need to start with sweeping changes , but slowly to see what works and what doesnt

[Lonami.2987]

Another idea, this one focusing on transformations as the main mechanic. These would work similar to the necromancer's Death Shroud, which would in turn be replaced by a new minion master role, keeping the transform mechanic free to transfer to other profession.

Transformation as the main mechanic

Well, first of all, some radical changes, in line with my previous ideas:

• The revenant needs a 5th legend to complete the core setup. I've chose Bonfaaz Burntfur and Master Togo in the past, but I believe those suit elite specializations better. My new choice is Zinn & Blimm, a dual-character legend, focusing on ancient asura magitech.
• Mallyx gets replaced by Varesh Ossa, a far better character to represent a demonic/margonite legend.
• Slot skills stop being legend-tied. Now they work like every other profession, you choose 5 from a list of 30 and stick with them. The new available slot skill types would be Tricks (Shiro), Corruption (Varesh), Stance (Jalis), Consecration (Ventari), and Gadget (Zinn & Blimm).
• Energy disappears, and weapon skills only have cooldowns to worry about.
• New weapons are enabled. These are off-hand mace, main-hand axe, focus, and torch.

Now, let's move to the new mechanic:

• You can equip legends in mechanic skill slots F1 and F2. Both work as transformation skills.
• While transformed, you gain five new weapon skills, themed around the legend you're transforming into. Transformations keep the original character's physique, but add some additional aesthetic features, like a beard with Jalis, six eyes with Varesh, etc. Transformations use their own weapon types and skins.
• Transformations use a new resource, which acts as a health point shield while transformed, pretty much like Death Shroud.
• Revenant is now part of the bottom base health tier, which means transforming is really important for your rotations and survival. Unlike the original Death Shroud, these aren't just a bonus health pool sponge you spam whenever you feel like, these are key part of the rotation.
• The two equipped legends interact with the player and with each other, in flavor-only dialogues. They can argue with each other (And in the case of Zinn and Blimm, with himself).

That's pretty simple, and kinda unoriginal, but I think this is what the revenant really needs to start working properly. Something that makes legends feel like they're really there, and not just some background magic you channel constantly. Of course, as I said before, this idea assumes an equal redesign of the necromancer, where he would lose Death Shourd as the core mechanic, replaced by a minion master role.

So, what about the elite specializations?

Herald

• The core transformation mechanic receives an upgrade. Now you no longer transform into one of the five the core legends, but one of six Legendary Facets of Glint, all using a dragon-like model (same as Vlast, but smaller in size). You equip two of six in buttons F1 and F2.
• Each dragon transformation is themed around one of the core legends, except the sixth, which is based on Glint. For example, Shiro's dragon form is crystal green, and uses Jade Wind powers.
• Additionally, now you can stay transformed as long as you want, assuming you don't get downed. The dragon form also allows natural gliding.
• Facet slot skills are now mechanic-exclusive. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 get two facets each. Using the skill swaps the active facet from the two available at that slot. They never run out, and are exclusively passive effects. The three pairs are: Light/Darkness, Nature/Chaos, Elements/Strength.
• The new slot skill family is Mantras (Glint), reciting verses from the Flameseeker Prophecies. These mantras consume the active facets, doubling their effects, and giving them a cooldown. The idea is that mantras allow you to sacrifice the passive effects for a stronger shorter effect at a given moment.

Renegade

• Both the Citadel Orders and the transformation are gone.
• The new mechanic is the Warband. Similar to a minion master, it lets you control three fellow ghostly warriors into battle. There's a warband themed around each legend, and you can equip two at once, swapping between them in battle. Mechanic skills F1 to F4 give orders to your warband, and F5 swaps the warband.
• Jalis: The Royal Guard (High Priest Alkar, Orozar Highstone, Telzar Ironjaw)
• Shiro: Doom of the Betrayer (Archemorus, Viktor, Vizu)
• Varesh: Generals of Kourna (Bayel, Kahyet, Morgahn)
• Ventari: Followers of Ventari (Alacena, Ehrgen Windmane, Ronan)
• Zinn & Blimm: Killer Golems (N.O.X., P.O.X., R.O.X.)
• Kalla: Razor Warband (Boles Deathrain, Ofela Soulcleave, Violo Raptorgaze)
• The new slot skill type is Shouts (Kalla), giving support to your allied players and warband members.

And that would be it. The core redesign is pretty basic, but I think that's just what the revenant needs, some simple solid ground, and not weird mechanics that only manage to make it be a terrible profession.

@lmaogg.7325 said:change renegade's warband into thief's summon. BamAnd I just randomly wrote this within 3secs without even thinking. There are so many fun ways they could had designed it before release but we get this incompetent wells that don't even function like wells.

I think they wanted to make some sort of ritualist... But not a ritualist. Which is kinda annoying, either make a spirit master ritualist, or don't.

Still hoping we get a real ritualist elite specialization once we go to Cantha, with spirits as the mechanic, with controls like the scourge's shades.

[ZDragon.3046]

I wish Bonfaaz Burntfur would have been put in place of Kalla Scorchrazor And gave the profession a scepter

On a side note mallyx is actually a good fit for rev or was a good fit. It was just toned down a bit too much and without glint at its side it starts to fall apart. Pre Glint though it was actually very strong.

[Orpheal.8263]

I would completely redesign this whole mess of a class and replace it basicalyl with a new better designed class with E-Specds, which actually fits to the overall class design of this game, with a Class, that has free choice of Utility, Healign and Elite skil llike all others, access to the racial skilsl, like all others.

Removal of those legendary stance nonsense and rework those legendary stance into Mist heroes for PVP Stronghod and in PvE for beign Revenant there as PvE only unique profession to Rytlock.Replacement for the Revenant/Herald/Renegade would be then the Mercenary/Templar/Vagabond

Mercenary Class Mechanic: Combat Styles

Combat Styles woudl be unique to the Vagabond Class and its Elite Specializations,Combat Styles are actually basically Battle Stances, with that the Vagabond can switch out in combat his Weapon Skills of the Equipped Weapon to a different Set of Weapon Skills based on either the used offensive, defensive, or supportive Combat Style.This means basically, that the Vagabond and its Elite Specializations will have under this class Desing with every Weapon they can use 3 different Weapon Skil lSets they can use in combat. It is kind of similar to the Elementalists attunements, but not based on Elements, lesser in amount, which is why this Class unlike the Elementalist wil lstill be able to use a second Weapon Set and comes together with the Weapon Switch Cooldown, while Eles have between switchgn Attunements no cooldown, unless you switch them too fast.By theme and style are Vagabonds basically a mixture out of the revenant style, dark paladins and death knights.. so basically kind of the opposite to guardians in style and theme, whereas warriors kind of are the neutral side between those two. Basically what would come out of it, if you would merge revenant, warrior, and Necromancer/Reaper together, that kind of design style would the Vagabond and its E-Specs Templar and Mercenary represent as third soldier class.

PS: or if that little similarity to Eles isn't wished, then let combat styles change the utility Skills to 1 of 3 different effects instead of changign the weapon skills out, but a change on weapon skills would make the class in the end more versatile, than only a change on the utility skills based on the used combat style.

Elite- Healing and Utility Skill Types:

The Mercenary would use as Skill Type Signets, Stances, Shouts, Counters and OrdersTemplars would use as E-Spec the own Utility Skill Type SealsVagabonds would use as E-Spec the own Utility Skill Type Hexes

Explanations:Counters would be utility Skills which help the Mercenary to react defensively on enemy attacks to turn the attacks against the enemies selfOrders are special Utility Skills which force the Mercenary to do something specific without having control over the character meanwhile, but if its done successfully, grant significant Buffs for short time.Seals are special Skilly of Templars, which enable them to stop their enemies from doing something specific, like sealing away the ability for a moment to dodge roll.Hexes are special condition creatign skills, which can't get just as simply removed like normal conditions and have negative effects over time therefore on you as well, liftign the conditions from the foes only, if oyu remove the Hex and therefore get rid of your negative side effects s well.

Weapons:

Mercenaries use: Daggers, Swords, Axe, Mace, Shield, Shortbow, Torch, HammerTemplar adds GreatswordVagabond adds Staff

That is kind of the basics what I'd do with revenant, without going now further deeper into the massive details about Skills and Traits

[LucianDK.8615]

A total rework of the proffession is not realistically going to happen.

[Aeolus.3615]

Rev needs to loose the root on shield..... this is a game of sprinters.

[Orpheal.8263]

@"LucianDK.8615" said:A total rework of the proffession is not realistically going to happen.

Thats not the question of this thread, how realistical it is ;)For me has this bad designed class under its current design absolutely no future and it woudl be better in my honest opinion for the third soldier class, if Rev woudl get completely replaced with a new class with differente E-Specs, which are by design in line with all other classes that have free choice on healing, utility and elite skills, without all this legendary stance nonsense which makes eactly this at the moment not possible for this class, while all other classes can do that by design from begin on and Anet just failed with Rev in their rush to make this class hyper unique to give them the most basics that all classes have just for the sake of ensuring, that the class is unique and different in hope, this will raise HoT sales - very bad decision

The rev is in its current state nothing half and nothing full with no real identity. This needs to get changed. Theres nothing the rev does, what other classes couldn't do too (and that eventually even better, if designed just right with their skills and traits in regard of class roles).At the moment are revs nothign else, but just boon bots still, which is also the only reason why they have spots in raids due to them giving essential perma boons while being in their near .A functionality, which I personally woudl rathe expect from a guardian, than the rev, cause the guardian should be more of that kind of boon group supporter, than the rev, cause hes in fact the defensive and supportive soldier class, not the revenant. So in this case the rev is even stealing identities of other classes, like the guardian, or in certain cases even the thief.

Good designed classes don't have it neccessary to steal on the identities of other classes, they shine with their own unique identidy and gameplay that shares the basics, but still gives the player the experience and feeling of playing somethign different, which just doenst copy other classes, or takes them somethign away that woudl fit by design and theme better to other classes than them.

However, basically I can agree with you what you said - "realistically" seen is this thread and those of that type for all other classes pointles,s nothign what we write down here will lead to any changes we wish for - ever.

[Ashantara.8731]

I hope the next Elite Spec will be more like the Ritualist. A Revenant, after all, is someone who has returned from the Mists. There should be something creepy to it (in relation to spirits and ghosts) rather than evoking some lame legends.

[LucianDK.8615]

Smaller changes is more likely something Anet will pick up on. Such as no root on shield. It is -horrible- and useless for an e-spec. Offhand sword or axe brutally outclasses the shield.

Personally I love sword/sword with the fractal sword skin.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

i would take the current revenant as is, and make the following basic changes:

1) i would add another melee weapon and another ranged weapon and shield to the core revenant. (maybe greatsword and longbow)2) i would revamp Herald to be more mesmery, removing the buffbot nature of the utility skills, and giving the utility skills more of a GW1 "Glint" feel. and probably give Herald a scepter as the spec weapon.~~ i was really pleased with how the Shiro Legend utility skills were basically updates to old GW1 SHiro skills... Why didn't Glint get the same treatment? the Herald spec feels NOTHING like Glint from GW1... we actually fought her as the bonus objective for her original GW1 prophecies mission... i mean come on! illusions, telepathy, just SCREAMS for a mesmery legend. i refuse to run Herald because of how Glint was dishonoured. and that's all i have to say about that.3) i would weave (ba dum tish) the boons into Ventari's utility skills, as it makes more sense for Ventari (based on his character from GW1) to heal AND buff his teammates.4) i really like someone else's idea of making a "me" (player character) legend.a) could be based on being the commander of the Pact.b) could be based on the starting race of the rev (so that the PC could select the racial skills as utilities as an alternate legend)

[Orpheal.8263]

@Ashantara.8731 said:I hope the next Elite Spec will be more like the Ritualist. A Revenant, after all, is someone who has returned from the Mists. There should be something creepy to it (in relation to spirits and ghosts) rather than evoking some lame legends.

the only class that ever should receive a Ritualist Spec is the Necromancer - Ritualist as like Necrmancers are OCCULTISTS, they belong together, commanding ghosts or undeads is basically the same, just that ghosts are still souls that are bonded by emotion to this mortal world, until they can do what bonds them to the world to find their peace so that they can finally rest in the mists... thats also why the ritualist ghosts were all based on negative emotions, like pain, sorrow ect.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I think the shield 4 skill needs an offensive/debuffing element to it. Instead if only being a small heal and a short protection buff.

[LucianDK.8615]

The renegade is our 'ritualist' spec. Think about it, we summon the ghosts of a charr warband with different functions, completely alike the ritualist of old.But id love to see a 'spellcaster' spec delving into the offensive spells of the ritualist. There was several spells id love to see again. such as the bundle spells, and that rising lightning orb. Going to Cantha next would be a perfect fit for it.

[Theocraft.6053]

and I just want it to be actually usable in PvE as power herald for sword- sword. Currently it feels so weak I just drop it after a short play. It is a shame since I very much like esthetics of the class.

[mbp.1693]

I will give my opinion on pvp power rev, as this is the only build I use for revenant. (Some of the ideas may apply to other builds too)

1. Better condi removal (shorter cast time on staff 4, remove 2 condis on legend swap) as already mentioned by many others.
2. Remove energy requirement from weapons. The energy should only be for slot skills, as already mentioned by many others.
3. Now the big change is for slot skills. We need to be able to select the skills we want to have more variety on builds. So the idea would be that we could select 4 (1 heal and 3 utilities) for the slots, but with certain limitations and improvements. I will give an example to be more clear in the next paragraph.
   • Limitation: The skills may only be selected from the 2 selected legends
   • Improvement: The skills should have improved versions when used if the "owner" legend is active.
   • Elite skills continue working the same way (they swap with the legend)

So for example if I select shiro and glint:

1. for heal, i may select enchanted daggers or facet of light.
2. For slots I may select 3 from facet of darkness, facet of strength, facet of elements, riposting shadows, phase traversal or impossible odds. ()
3. Elite skill swaps depending on legend (same as it is right now).

So how could the improved versions work (examples, remember the improved version only works if the correct legend is active):

1. Impossible odds: same as current version. If SHIRO active, adds quickness.
2. Phase traversal: same as current version. If SHIRO active, target is slowed on hit.
3. Riposting shadows: same as current. If SHIRO active, AOE chill on activation.
4. Facet of Strength: same as current. If GLINT active, also pulse retaliation to allies.
5. Facet of Elements: same as current. If GLINT active, also pulse vigor to allies.
6. Facet of Darkness: same as current. If GLINT active, also pulse alacrity to allies.
7. Enchanted Daggers: same as current. If SHIRO active, initial heal and life siphon healing increased.
8. Facet of light: same as current. If GLINT active, direct and condition damage reduced by X %.

Now there should also be improved versions of burst of strength, elemental blast and gaze of darkness.Adjust cooldowns on weapons and energy on skills as necessary.

[Rym.1469]

In my eyes the biggest issue of revenant is lack of things to things to buildcraft from. Options are pretty straight-foward and set in stone. The more focused approach works for elite specializations, making sure they don't start doing everything great (or at least that's the intention...), but core of classes should be more flexible and less defined. The odd thing with Revenant design is that the most flexible and least defined part of it happens to be an elite specialization - Herald. That's why for a lot of builds Herald is the backbone you attach focused core specializations to, not the other way. So there are few steps I'd like to see, adressing above problems:

• De-focusing some of the core specializations a little bit, making them more flexible. Salvation is probably the worst offender in here - you will always take this specialization when going for healing support build, but you will never pick this specialization otherwise. Corruption, despite rework, is in similar place - you take it only on condition build. I'm not saying every specialization should cater to every build, but having some options for more builds than one as an alternative apporach would be very welcome. Currently, many builds for Revenant build themselves, because of too well-defined options.

• One (more would likely be an overkill) additional Legend utility per stance to choose from. Allows more situational skills to exist (like Ventari's projectile block bubble) in a pure form and be swappable from if not needed. It's great that Mallyx for example can remove boons and stack confusion, but if I'm facing a boss vulnerable to neither, I could perhaps have something I can use and get value off. All utility types in game have 4 different non heal, non-elite skills to choose from, it's only Revenant that has 3. Otherwise, in attempts to buff those niche Legend utilities they can lose their purity of purpose and start doing everything.

• A bit more weapons. What we lose on utility customization could and should be rewarded with more customization on the other side on action bar. Even as little as one or two more could make a huge difference and open up build options. A defensive off-hand can help non-Herald support specializations or duelling builds. A new hybrid ranged main-hand is an interesting option for most builds. That's just two.

Two suggestions below might be not necessary and can be controversial, but I include them anyway:

• Re-focusing Herald and Glint at...something. Bringing a ton of boons just so happens to perfectly support every single playstyle and role...but not in PvE. Herald brings the boons that are already easy to come by in that game mode. Perhaps switching some boons around in Herald, moving it closer to a similar boon support Chronomancer currently fullfills at the cost of losing some of it's massive utility and damage would be an option to consider. I'm not saying give Herald toggle on/off Quickness facet, but giving it access to Quickness in more gameplay-driven manner for example. If Herald is supposed to be a boon support specialization, be it.

• Redistributing lost Glint's utility across other core and elite Legends. Things like AoE reveal, superspeed, blowout, massive vulnerability stacking with great damage, one of the best heals in game, AoE weakness+chill with good damage on top of boons could be re-added to other areas of Revenant, instead of all coming in one stacked package.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Remove Energy Costs on Weapons, balance Weapon CDs accordingly, Rebalance Utilities Costs, provide each legend with a decent Condi Cleanse, add a new legend for Core Rev that is a General Legend or lack there That provides a general/balanced load out can have it synerize with Invocation Traitline.

Here’s the big one Fix all the bugs and make UA and PS single Target, also how come those two skills don’t track in stealth like every other skil cast before a player enters Stealth they should fix that or make all other skills not track in Stealth if Cast prior to target entering Stealth, for Parities sake.

[Lonami.2987]

Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

• Revenant: Every unique mechanic is gone, removed, so we're back to the basic state. The new mechanic is transformation. You equip two legends, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Activating them transforms you for a period of time, giving you a new appearance and replacing your weapon skills. These legends are King Jalis Ironhammer, Shiro Tagachi, Warmarshal Varesh Ossa (replacing Mallyx), Ventari, and High Councillor Zinn (new 5th core legend). The transformation boosts various stats, pretty much like necromancer's Death Shroud (which would be removed during its own redesign). Slot skills work like any other profession's, and the transformation requires a new resource.

• Herald: New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 now contain two facets each, of which you can activate one at a time, by using the skill to swap between them. Their passive effect is permanently up, with no energy cost involved, so you can have the three of them permanently up. You gain a new legend, Glint, with her own transformation. When you transform to any legend, the facets' mechanic slots change to new skills, unique to each legend. Using these skills disables their facet slot (independently of which of the slot's two facets was currently active), and gives them a cooldown.

• Renegade: You gain a new legend, Kalla Scorchrazor. While transformed, you get three new minions accompanying you, unique to each legend, representing friends or guards of the legendary character, charging into battle by your side. The mechanic bar gets a minion control panel, using mechanic slots F3, F4, and F5, in a similar manner to the ranger's pet controls. These minions spawn with full health every time you transform, and disappear once the transformation is over or they die in combat.

• Ritualist: New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 can now be customized with various types of spirits. The same spirit type can be summoned multiple times. There's also a limit of how many spirits you can deploy at a time, 5 being the default maximum without traits. If you summon a new spirit beyond the limit, the oldest one will disappear. Spirits can be attacked and destroyed. The new slot skills provide further control options for the deployed spirits. You gain a new legend, Master Togo. The new spirit mechanic skills are not affected by the transformation.

• Hierophant: You gain a new legend, Imperator Bonfaaz Burntfur. While transformed, an artifact is summoned by your side, unique to each legend. Artifacts can be controlled by new mechanic skills in slots F3, F4, and F5. Artifacts can't be targeted or destroyed, and they replace the original Ventari's Tablet, removed after the core profession redesign. Glyphs are the new slot skill type, summoning minor artifacts while in normal mode, and providing further control options for the bigger artifacts while transformed. Artifacts disappear once the transformation is over or after using special skills, which can make them self-destroy.

• Stargazer: You gain a new legend, Asgeir Dragonrender. You can now equip a 3rd legend in mechanic slot F3. While transformed, you can consume the other two legends, empowering your current transformation's stats and skills, growing in size and power, but sacrificing your ability to stay to stay transformed longer by putting the consumed legends on cooldown. The new slot skills summon the power of the Spirits of the Wild to further empower your transformations.

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I wish Bonfaaz Burntfur would have been put in place of Kalla Scorchrazor And gave the profession a scepter

On a side note mallyx is actually a good fit for rev or was a good fit. It was just toned down a bit too much and without glint at its side it starts to fall apart. Pre Glint though it was actually very strong.

Yeah, I don't feel like Kalla was worth the "legendary status" at all, since she doesn't have any kind of special magic, something I personally believe should be a requirement for every legend. They already pushed a bit too far with Ventari, but I guess it's here to stay.

Still hope we get a Flame Legion legend with their unique magic some day.

@Ashantara.8731 said:I hope the next Elite Spec will be more like the Ritualist. A Revenant, after all, is someone who has returned from the Mists. There should be something creepy to it (in relation to spirits and ghosts) rather than evoking some lame legends.

Yeah, I'm sad that wasn't the core idea for revenant, an upgrade to ritualist. Let's hope we get a ritualist legend like Master Togo when we go to Cantha.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Rev honestly doesn't need major reworks and isn't half as underpowered as some make it out to be. If anything the constant random changes often make things worse.

What Rev needs is just straight utility buffs. Skills should do more. Like Renegade f4 for instance, 4s alacrity pulse for uh... 20 e on a 20s cooldown? Most classes have more loaded skills than this that are not held back by any resource requirement. I don't think the skills needs a rework, it should just do something else in addition to it's current effects. Like do damage or remove a condition or just SOMETHING. This is the generic problem rev currently faces, too many skills that are tunnel visioned or pigeonholed in some unnecessary way.

To add to this problem, every time our utility does get a buff something gets removed in a way that is often worse. Like sword 4 damage buff was great, but losing duelist s preparation with it? Or the extra hit on IO - was losing quickness worth it ? As the worst class in the game, I don't think it's too much to ask for just a straight buff for once and not a side grade.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Lonami.2987 said:Another idea, this one focusing on transformations as the main mechanic. These would work similar to the necromancer's Death Shroud, which would in turn be replaced by a new minion master role, keeping the transform mechanic free to transfer to other profession.

Transformation as the main mechanic

Well, first of all, some radical changes, in line with my previous ideas:

• The revenant needs a 5th legend to complete the core setup. I've chose Bonfaaz Burntfur and Master Togo in the past, but I believe those suit elite specializations better. My new choice is Zinn & Blimm, a dual-character legend, focusing on ancient asura magitech.
• Mallyx gets replaced by Varesh Ossa, a far better character to represent a demonic/margonite legend.
• Slot skills stop being legend-tied. Now they work like every other profession, you choose 5 from a list of 30 and stick with them. The new available slot skill types would be Tricks (Shiro), Corruption (Varesh), Stance (Jalis), Consecration (Ventari), and Gadget (Zinn & Blimm).
• Energy disappears, and weapon skills only have cooldowns to worry about.
• New weapons are enabled. These are off-hand mace, main-hand axe, focus, and torch.

Now, let's move to the new mechanic:

• You can equip legends in mechanic skill slots F1 and F2. Both work as transformation skills.
• While transformed, you gain five new weapon skills, themed around the legend you're transforming into. Transformations keep the original character's physique, but add some additional aesthetic features, like a beard with Jalis, six eyes with Varesh, etc. Transformations use their own weapon types and skins.
• Transformations use a new resource, which acts as a health point shield while transformed, pretty much like Death Shroud.
• Revenant is now part of the bottom base health tier, which means transforming is really important for your rotations and survival. Unlike the original Death Shroud, these aren't just a bonus health pool sponge you spam whenever you feel like, these are key part of the rotation.
• The two equipped legends interact with the player and with each other, in flavor-only dialogues. They can argue with each other (And in the case of Zinn and Blimm, with himself).

That's pretty simple, and kinda unoriginal, but I think this is what the revenant really needs to start working properly. Something that makes legends feel like they're really there, and not just some background magic you channel constantly. Of course, as I said before, this idea assumes an equal redesign of the necromancer, where he would lose Death Shourd as the core mechanic, replaced by a minion master role.

So, what about the elite specializations?

Herald

• The core transformation mechanic receives an upgrade. Now you no longer transform into one of the five the core legends, but one of six Legendary Facets of Glint, all using a dragon-like model (same as Vlast, but smaller in size). You equip two of six in buttons F1 and F2.
• Each dragon transformation is themed around one of the core legends, except the sixth, which is based on Glint. For example, Shiro's dragon form is crystal green, and uses Jade Wind powers.
• Additionally, now you can stay transformed as long as you want, assuming you don't get downed. The dragon form also allows natural gliding.
• Facet slot skills are now mechanic-exclusive. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 get two facets each. Using the skill swaps the active facet from the two available at that slot. They never run out, and are exclusively passive effects. The three pairs are: Light/Darkness, Nature/Chaos, Elements/Strength.
• The new slot skill family is Mantras (Glint), reciting verses from the Flameseeker Prophecies. These mantras consume the active facets, doubling their effects, and giving them a cooldown. The idea is that mantras allow you to sacrifice the passive effects for a stronger shorter effect at a given moment.

Renegade

• Both the Citadel Orders and the transformation are gone.
• The new mechanic is the Warband. Similar to a minion master, it lets you control three fellow ghostly warriors into battle. There's a warband themed around each legend, and you can equip two at once, swapping between them in battle. Mechanic skills F1 to F4 give orders to your warband, and F5 swaps the warband.
• Jalis: The Royal Guard (High Priest Alkar, Orozar Highstone, Telzar Ironjaw)
• Shiro: Doom of the Betrayer (Archemorus, Viktor, Vizu)
• Varesh: Generals of Kourna (Bayel, Kahyet, Morgahn)
• Ventari: Followers of Ventari (Alacena, Ehrgen Windmane, Ronan)
• Zinn & Blimm: Killer Golems (N.O.X., P.O.X., R.O.X.)
• Kalla: Razor Warband (Boles Deathrain, Ofela Soulcleave, Violo Raptorgaze)
• The new slot skill type is Shouts (Kalla), giving support to your allied players and warband members.

And that would be it. The core redesign is pretty basic, but I think that's just what the revenant needs, some simple solid ground, and not weird mechanics that only manage to make it be a terrible profession.

@lmaogg.7325 said:change renegade's warband into thief's summon. BamAnd I just randomly wrote this within 3secs without even thinking. There are so many fun ways they could had designed it before release but we get this incompetent wells that don't even function like wells.

I think they wanted to make some sort of ritualist... But not a ritualist. Which is kinda annoying, either make a spirit master ritualist, or don't.

Still hoping we get a real ritualist elite specialization once we go to Cantha, with spirits as the mechanic, with controls like the scourge's shades.

I would sell my kidney to be able to play a revenant that is like this.... good lord. Go put this on reddit as thats the real place to place stuff like this, As A-net spends alot of time over there... more so than here.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Lonami.2987" said:

Yeah, I don't feel like Kalla was worth the "legendary status" at all, since she doesn't have any kind of special magic, something I personally believe should be a requirement for every legend. They already pushed a bit too far with Ventari, but I guess it's here to stay.

Well to be honest its not always about having strong magic simply strong actions or events in that those characters performed is what makes them worthy of the legend.Kalla is most certainly worthy enough to be considered a legend for her actions against giving female charr their right to fight and fighting against the flame legion the way she did. She died to accomplish her goal and thats pretty big.

My issue is that they picked a good character and executed it in the game very poorly.

Still hope we get a Flame Legion legend with their unique magic some day.

This is very unlikely due to the fact that kalla is the charr legend.The next legend likely wont be a human, dragon, charr, etc. But its not impossible

[Lonami.2987]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:Another idea, this one focusing on transformations as the main mechanic. These would work similar to the necromancer's Death Shroud, which would in turn be replaced by a new minion master role, keeping the transform mechanic free to transfer to other profession.

Transformation as the main mechanic

Well, first of all, some radical changes, in line with my previous ideas:

• The revenant needs a 5th legend to complete the core setup. I've chose Bonfaaz Burntfur and Master Togo in the past, but I believe those suit elite specializations better. My new choice is
  Zinn & Blimm
  , a dual-character legend, focusing on ancient asura magitech.
• Mallyx gets replaced by Varesh Ossa, a far better character to represent a demonic/margonite legend.
• Slot skills stop being legend-tied. Now they work like every other profession, you choose 5 from a list of 30 and stick with them. The new available slot skill types would be Tricks (Shiro), Corruption (Varesh), Stance (Jalis), Consecration (Ventari), and Gadget (Zinn & Blimm).
• Energy disappears, and weapon skills only have cooldowns to worry about.
• New weapons are enabled. These are off-hand mace, main-hand axe, focus, and torch.

Now, let's move to the new mechanic:

• You can equip legends in mechanic skill slots F1 and F2. Both work as transformation skills.
• While transformed, you gain five new weapon skills, themed around the legend you're transforming into. Transformations keep the original character's physique, but add some additional aesthetic features, like a beard with Jalis, six eyes with Varesh, etc. Transformations use their own weapon types and skins.
• Transformations use a new resource, which acts as a health point shield while transformed, pretty much like Death Shroud.
• Revenant is now part of the bottom base health tier, which means transforming is really important for your rotations and survival. Unlike the original Death Shroud, these aren't just a bonus health pool sponge you spam whenever you feel like, these are key part of the rotation.
• The two equipped legends interact with the player and with each other, in flavor-only dialogues. They can argue with each other (And in the case of Zinn and Blimm, with himself).

That's pretty simple, and kinda unoriginal, but I think this is what the revenant really needs to start working properly. Something that makes legends feel like they're really there, and not just some background magic you channel constantly. Of course, as I said before, this idea assumes an equal redesign of the necromancer, where he would lose Death Shourd as the core mechanic, replaced by a minion master role.

So, what about the elite specializations?

Herald

• The core transformation mechanic receives an upgrade. Now you no longer transform into one of the five the core legends, but one of six Legendary Facets of Glint, all using a dragon-like model (same as Vlast, but smaller in size). You equip two of six in buttons F1 and F2.
• Each dragon transformation is themed around one of the core legends, except the sixth, which is based on Glint. For example, Shiro's dragon form is crystal green, and uses Jade Wind powers.
• Additionally, now you can stay transformed as long as you want, assuming you don't get downed. The dragon form also allows natural gliding.
• Facet slot skills are now mechanic-exclusive. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 get two facets each. Using the skill swaps the active facet from the two available at that slot. They never run out, and are exclusively passive effects. The three pairs are: Light/Darkness, Nature/Chaos, Elements/Strength.
• The new slot skill family is Mantras (Glint), reciting verses from the Flameseeker Prophecies. These mantras consume the active facets, doubling their effects, and giving them a cooldown. The idea is that mantras allow you to sacrifice the passive effects for a stronger shorter effect at a given moment.

Renegade

• Both the Citadel Orders and the transformation are gone.
• The new mechanic is the Warband. Similar to a minion master, it lets you control three fellow ghostly warriors into battle. There's a warband themed around each legend, and you can equip two at once, swapping between them in battle. Mechanic skills F1 to F4 give orders to your warband, and F5 swaps the warband.
• Jalis:
  The Royal Guard
  (High Priest Alkar, Orozar Highstone, Telzar Ironjaw)
• Shiro:
  Doom of the Betrayer
  (Archemorus, Viktor, Vizu)
• Varesh:
  Generals of Kourna
  (Bayel, Kahyet, Morgahn)
• Ventari:
  Followers of Ventari
  (Alacena, Ehrgen Windmane, Ronan)
• Zinn & Blimm:
  Killer Golems
  (N.O.X., P.O.X., R.O.X.)
• Kalla:
  Razor Warband
  (Boles Deathrain, Ofela Soulcleave, Violo Raptorgaze)
• The new slot skill type is Shouts (Kalla), giving support to your allied players and warband members.

And that would be it. The core redesign is pretty basic, but I think that's just what the revenant needs, some simple solid ground, and not weird mechanics that only manage to make it be a terrible profession.

@lmaogg.7325 said:change renegade's warband into thief's summon. BamAnd I just randomly wrote this within 3secs without even thinking. There are so many fun ways they could had designed it before release but we get this incompetent wells that don't even function like wells.

I think they wanted to make some sort of ritualist... But not a ritualist. Which is kinda annoying, either make a spirit master ritualist, or don't.

Still hoping we get a real ritualist elite specialization once we go to Cantha, with spirits as the mechanic, with controls like the scourge's shades.

I would sell my kidney to be able to play a revenant that is like this.... good lord. Go put this on reddit as thats the real place to place stuff like this, As A-net spends alot of time over there... more so than here.

I revised those ideas further, check the new version above your reply =).

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:

Yeah, I don't feel like Kalla was worth the "legendary status" at all, since she doesn't have any kind of special magic, something I personally believe should be a requirement for every legend. They already pushed a bit too far with Ventari, but I guess it's here to stay.

Well to be honest its not always about having strong magic simply strong actions or events in that those characters performed is what makes them worthy of the legend.Kalla is most certainly worthy enough to be considered a legend for her actions against giving female charr their right to fight and fighting against the flame legion the way she did. She died to accomplish her goal and thats pretty big.

My issue is that they picked a good character and executed it in the game very poorly.

My issue isn't about power, but "unique abilities". What Kalla does now has nothing to do with what she possibly did in life. At least Shiro, Mallyx, and Jalis have unique magic you can't find anywhere else. I'd prefer if legends focused on special magic that can't be used by other professions. The character should serve the skills, not the other way around.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:

Still hope we get a Flame Legion legend with their unique magic some day.

This is very unlikely due to the fact that kalla is the charr legend.The next legend likely wont be a human, dragon, charr, etc. But its not impossible

I don't think legends are race-locked, that's pretty arbitrary. It's not like there's more to choose from anyway.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

Here are my thoughts in detail. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28414/massive-revenant-rework-fan-concept

[Ephemiel.5694]

@Lonami.2987 said:Another idea, this one focusing on transformations as the main mechanic. These would work similar to the necromancer's Death Shroud, which would in turn be replaced by a new minion master role, keeping the transform mechanic free to transfer to other profession.

Transformation as the main mechanic

Well, first of all, some radical changes, in line with my previous ideas:

• The revenant needs a 5th legend to complete the core setup. I've chose Bonfaaz Burntfur and Master Togo in the past, but I believe those suit elite specializations better. My new choice is Zinn & Blimm, a dual-character legend, focusing on ancient asura magitech.
• Mallyx gets replaced by Varesh Ossa, a far better character to represent a demonic/margonite legend.
• Slot skills stop being legend-tied. Now they work like every other profession, you choose 5 from a list of 30 and stick with them. The new available slot skill types would be Tricks (Shiro), Corruption (Varesh), Stance (Jalis), Consecration (Ventari), and Gadget (Zinn & Blimm).
• Energy disappears, and weapon skills only have cooldowns to worry about.
• New weapons are enabled. These are off-hand mace, main-hand axe, focus, and torch.

Now, let's move to the new mechanic:

• You can equip legends in mechanic skill slots F1 and F2. Both work as transformation skills.
• While transformed, you gain five new weapon skills, themed around the legend you're transforming into. Transformations keep the original character's physique, but add some additional aesthetic features, like a beard with Jalis, six eyes with Varesh, etc. Transformations use their own weapon types and skins.
• Transformations use a new resource, which acts as a health point shield while transformed, pretty much like Death Shroud.
• Revenant is now part of the bottom base health tier, which means transforming is really important for your rotations and survival. Unlike the original Death Shroud, these aren't just a bonus health pool sponge you spam whenever you feel like, these are key part of the rotation.
• The two equipped legends interact with the player and with each other, in flavor-only dialogues. They can argue with each other (And in the case of Zinn and Blimm, with himself).

That's pretty simple, and kinda unoriginal, but I think this is what the revenant really needs to start working properly. Something that makes legends feel like they're really there, and not just some background magic you channel constantly. Of course, as I said before, this idea assumes an equal redesign of the necromancer, where he would lose Death Shourd as the core mechanic, replaced by a minion master role.

So, what about the elite specializations?

Herald

• The core transformation mechanic receives an upgrade. Now you no longer transform into one of the five the core legends, but one of six Legendary Facets of Glint, all using a dragon-like model (same as Vlast, but smaller in size). You equip two of six in buttons F1 and F2.
• Each dragon transformation is themed around one of the core legends, except the sixth, which is based on Glint. For example, Shiro's dragon form is crystal green, and uses Jade Wind powers.
• Additionally, now you can stay transformed as long as you want, assuming you don't get downed. The dragon form also allows natural gliding.
• Facet slot skills are now mechanic-exclusive. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 get two facets each. Using the skill swaps the active facet from the two available at that slot. They never run out, and are exclusively passive effects. The three pairs are: Light/Darkness, Nature/Chaos, Elements/Strength.
• The new slot skill family is Mantras (Glint), reciting verses from the Flameseeker Prophecies. These mantras consume the active facets, doubling their effects, and giving them a cooldown. The idea is that mantras allow you to sacrifice the passive effects for a stronger shorter effect at a given moment.

Renegade

• Both the Citadel Orders and the transformation are gone.
• The new mechanic is the Warband. Similar to a minion master, it lets you control three fellow ghostly warriors into battle. There's a warband themed around each legend, and you can equip two at once, swapping between them in battle. Mechanic skills F1 to F4 give orders to your warband, and F5 swaps the warband.
• Jalis: The Royal Guard (High Priest Alkar, Orozar Highstone, Telzar Ironjaw)
• Shiro: Doom of the Betrayer (Archemorus, Viktor, Vizu)
• Varesh: Generals of Kourna (Bayel, Kahyet, Morgahn)
• Ventari: Followers of Ventari (Alacena, Ehrgen Windmane, Ronan)
• Zinn & Blimm: Killer Golems (N.O.X., P.O.X., R.O.X.)
• Kalla: Razor Warband (Boles Deathrain, Ofela Soulcleave, Violo Raptorgaze)
• The new slot skill type is Shouts (Kalla), giving support to your allied players and warband members.

And that would be it. The core redesign is pretty basic, but I think that's just what the revenant needs, some simple solid ground, and not weird mechanics that only manage to make it be a terrible profession.

@lmaogg.7325 said:change renegade's warband into thief's summon. BamAnd I just randomly wrote this within 3secs without even thinking. There are so many fun ways they could had designed it before release but we get this incompetent wells that don't even function like wells.

I think they wanted to make some sort of ritualist... But not a ritualist. Which is kinda annoying, either make a spirit master ritualist, or don't.

Still hoping we get a real ritualist elite specialization once we go to Cantha, with spirits as the mechanic, with controls like the scourge's shades.

Revenant would become the most played class if it played at least half like that.

[ethanzephyr.7298]

We don't need a redesign. People who try to multiclass fail here because of how different it is to play a rev from the others. As a tip, you will often use skills when it is a good idea to instead of using them off cooldown. If you play as you would another class, it won't work. I love how creative some of these ideas are, but they seem built for a different class. Revenant does have some problems, but this certainly won't solve it.