Dear commanders: Please... command. And to those who do: thank you for making it such a fun time.

[chrisjfinlay.5614]

Bit of a rant, really. I'm sure we can all relate.

The first time I had any real experience playing under a commander was with the EU GW2 community guys on a Triple Trouble run. I'd generally avoided the "big" world events that needed more co-ordination than just "turn up and hit things" but I figured I wanted to give it a go. So I popped over, joined a squad, and had a damn good time. The commander, whose name I can't remember but I'd recognise if I saw it again, took time to explain the fight, answer questions about it and then during the fight, kept everyone co-ordinated and organised both on squad chat and teamspeak (handy for me, as I don't have TS and am often on Discord to friends while playing). It was a joyous experience and I wondered why I hadn't gotten involved before.

Sadly, it seems these commanders for other events are in the minority. TT has generally yielded good leaders but there have been a few times in that event when the commanders have refused to use anything other than TS. After the event was complete and we were collecting our loot and giving thanks, I noted some politely worded feedback that perhaps it would be worth using squad broadcast as well as TS to help those who don't have TS installed, to which I was told "it was made clear that instructions would be given over TS and it's too distracting to use messages as well when focussing on the fight"... well, sorry mate but the previous 4 or 5 commanders I served under had their kittens in order and were able to do it.

Anyway, outside of TT I've noticed a big decline in commander quality. Just last night I was doing the day & night metas in Verdant Brink in a squad, and there was general disorganisation - a lot of rally points with nobody there for example. Eventually the commander asked us why so many people were focussing on a couple of rally points instead of going elsewhere. Well, we had TRIED to split off into smaller groups and spread out more, but let's be honest - nobody's listening to someone they don't know bark instructions if they don't have a tag over their head. And that's alright - that's what's expected. Commanders are meant to command.

The same disorganisation continued during the night time bosses. The hope was to clear all 5 bosses out - something that requires at least 2 teams working on separate bosses - but people were sticking with the one squad so we were just able to take down 4. The commander lamented that the group didn't split into teams and take on separate bosses... despite not having instructed anyone to go anywhere else. And after a boss was killed, the squad chat was rife with "ok where/who next"... and the commander would just be running off in one direction without saying where. Eventually he said "just follow me"... as he glided off across a distance only reachable with Advanced Gliding mastery, something a lot of the group clearly didn't have as a lot of us plummeted out of the sky.

There's tons of examples. We see them during almost every meta. Some commanders are very good. My first experience of the Tarir city meta was a great time, especially as I had explained to the squad it was my first time doing it and appreciated the guidance. But a bad commander who doesn't lead is just... soul-destroying. May as well leave the squad and just run free.

[chrisjfinlay.5614]

(also can you please stop assuming everyone has mounts and full masteries k thx bye)

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@chrisjfinlay.5614 said:(also can you please stop assuming everyone has mounts and full masteries k thx bye)

That isn't going to happen: endgame content is gonna keep coming with the assumption that the players are dedicated enough to be getting all that stuff. It is sadly the nature of the whole deal. (Well, except raid masteries, which nobody assumes because nobody cares outside raids. ;)

[Biff.5312]

Well you know - some people are better at leading than others. When you find people you like playing with, add them to your contacts or join their guild. You can't really demand that everyone be good at it. But you can choose to stick to people you know you like playing with.

[Voltekka.2375]

Things are not really always that simple. Let me explain: i have been around commanders who explain every mechanic, tell people about splitting in VB (for instance ), yet the zerg follow only the comm like sheep. I have been around commanders who tell their squad to move in TD, nuhoch lane meta 20 secs before the seconds stomping begins for secnd phase. Yet the squad stays to dps the gerent (no chance of kill ofc). Other comms in DS tell people not to CC Mordremoth before the third bite, ppl flame and dont listen. Those comms get tired of people not listening, so they dont care anymore. They only tag up because the lane, somehow, needs a tag.Also, as some metas are old, comms expect people to know what they are expected to do.Other comms explain stuff every time they tag up.The first category, tired/not caring comms, are the majority as far as I can see.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I didn't read OP because he admits it's a rant, but I have to say this: commander pays 300g for the tag and has no obligation to provide any service for you.

[Valiant.5078]

I've seen a couple of conversations on map chat in various meta maps talking about commanders, or lack of actual commanding/not very good ones. I lean towards more what Khledorn mentioned above. They spent the gold to do that, its their squad, so its their rules. There was once a really bad commander who didn't know the meta at all but refused to tag down, so there were two tags at one point. Basically, if a commander isn't doing a good job, then someone else tag up and spam map chat to follow them instead if they can do better. Mentor tags work fine too.

TT seems to generally have good commanders, at least perhaps the timeslot I happen to do them is run by the same guild each time, but a large chunk of all other metas, commanders assume you already know what to do. I see tags mainly as a pointer of where to go, or where the group should be. I don't see them as hand-holding or telling people what exactly to do in my opinion. More like a.. "Okay, we're at this point on the map, doing this event, meaning we are at this phase of the meta." After 1-2 runs of a given meta, or a lane of it, you can kinda start figuring how it all works.

[Rain.7543]

To be honest -- commanders are free to command the way they want, just like you are free to leave a commander's squad if you dont like it. Not everyone are good in multi-tasking, as to be able to communicate over on TS, keep focused on the actual fight and type text messages over on chat. You could just stop being special snowflake for a moment and go over on TS, when it was made clear the instructions will be available there, instead of coming here and scrutinizing over someone who have put their time and effort to try and bring people together. Not to mention, as already someone pointed out that just getting tag alone is quite the solid investment alone and no one has any special obligations towards you @OP.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I'll join in with thanks for the commanders who go the extra mile, putting in the work to be as inclusive as possible. I will also thank those who also offer a service but don't go that far. Both are providing a service to others. Both are putting in more effort than did the people who just showed up. Should I complain about one because a different one did something extra? Sorry, that's not in me.

[Danikat.8537]

One option if the commander is unable or unwilling to type instructions is for someone else in the squad to do it. I've been in several meta-event maps where the commander focuses on keeping the tag where the most people are needed, which is often also where the most enemies are and players cannot afford to spend time standing still typing, so someone else who is willing to stand on the side lines or otherwise able to do it types out instructions for everyone. This is especially common on EU servers if the commander doesn't speak the language most players on the map know best.

The same can work if the commander simply isn't giving instructions, but you run the risk of them seeing it as a threat to their "authority" and trying to silence or kick the person giving instructions. But things like that need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

@Biff.5312 said:Well you know - some people are better at leading than others. When you find people you like playing with, add them to your contacts or join their guild. You can't really demand that everyone be good at it. But you can choose to stick to people you know you like playing with.

I think this is a really good suggestion. I've certainly experienced a wide variety of leadership styles, but for the most part, I find those who fly the tag are very good at what they do, and those who are extraordinary are ones I seek out in the future.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Voltekka.2375 said:Things are not really always that simple. Let me explain: i have been around commanders who explain every mechanic, tell people about splitting in VB (for instance ), yet the zerg follow only the comm like sheep. I have been around commanders who tell their squad to move in TD, nuhoch lane meta 20 secs before the seconds stomping begins for secnd phase. Yet the squad stays to dps the gerent (no chance of kill ofc). Other comms in DS tell people not to CC Mordremoth before the third bite, ppl flame and dont listen. Those comms get tired of people not listening, so they dont care anymore. They only tag up because the lane, somehow, needs a tag.Also, as some metas are old, comms expect people to know what they are expected to do.Other comms explain stuff every time they tag up.The first category, tired/not caring comms, are the majority as far as I can see.

Sadly, of late the gw2 community doesn't care for performance, they just switch their brains off, and neglect everything.Other day i ended up doing Frostgorge events, so i started a Champ train (easiest fastest way to do events there), when doing coil we had enough people to scale it to spawn tons of champs. Managed to get a single one, because out of the dozens of people there only about 5 guys stopped dpsing the druids to go for the champ.People don't care and end up sabotaging themselves out of spite. That's why commanders stop caring as well.

[Danikat.8537]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Things are not really always that simple. Let me explain: i have been around commanders who explain every mechanic, tell people about splitting in VB (for instance ), yet the zerg follow only the comm like sheep. I have been around commanders who tell their squad to move in TD, nuhoch lane meta 20 secs before the seconds stomping begins for secnd phase. Yet the squad stays to dps the gerent (no chance of kill ofc). Other comms in DS tell people not to CC Mordremoth before the third bite, ppl flame and dont listen. Those comms get tired of people not listening, so they dont care anymore. They only tag up because the lane, somehow, needs a tag.Also, as some metas are old, comms expect people to know what they are expected to do.Other comms explain stuff every time they tag up.The first category, tired/not caring comms, are the majority as far as I can see.

Sadly, of late the gw2 community doesn't care for performance, they just switch their brains off, and neglect everything.Other day i ended up doing Frostgorge events, so i started a Champ train (easiest fastest way to do events there), when doing coil we had enough people to scale it to spawn tons of champs. Managed to get a single one, because out of the dozens of people there only about 5 guys stopped dpsing the druids to go for the champ.People don't care and end up sabotaging themselves out of spite. That's why commanders stop caring as well.

How many of the people there were part of your champ train and how many showed up afterwards, or were already there when you arrived? (Depending on when the event started.)

I've sometimes run into that situation from the other side - I'm completing an event, with a bunch of other people, and suddenly someone is trying to tell everyone not to complete it for whatever reason (usually because it will trigger a different event). But more often than not by that point everyone has already committed themselves to completing it, either because they need to for an achievement or whatever or simply because they want to, and being ordered not to doesn't go over well.

It's much better to try and get people on the same page in advance, although even then you can't expect everyone on the map to obey you just because you're wearing a commander tag, if they're not part of your squad they're free to do what they want. It's annoying when the game brings players with different goals into conflict (fortunately it doesn't happen often) but the best we can do is try to compromise when possible - one champion is better than none and you can always move on to another one.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Most (if not all, joined during the escort phase), i was there from the start.And i did explain people to not kill everything right away and wait for my mark so we'd get more loot.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Biff.5312 said:Well you know - some people are better at leading than others. When you find people you like playing with, add them to your contacts or join their guild. You can't really demand that everyone be good at it. But you can choose to stick to people you know you like playing with.

It's true. I've only been playing a few months, so as a newbie, I very much appreciate some of the great leadership I've seen for events like TT. (btw, I did my first TT after only playing for about a week - to say I had no idea what to do was an understatement, but the commander just gave clear and precise instructions and it was a great kill)

But like anything, some people have gifts and talents that others dont.

Just remember: if it seems at times like your commander must have bought their title from a vendor........well, they did :)

[MachineManXX.9746]

Sometimes a "commander" will reluctantly tag up simply because no one else will and it's often better to at least have a tag, rather than none. Just realize that people may know that they are not a very good commander but do what they can to help out, and that may mean tagging up so at least there is a visual on the map. Many times, that is enough to draw people to the event and result in success.

TLDR - Don't be too harsh on sub-par commanders, they may already know they are sub-par but are just trying to succeed when needed.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

There's incentive to be a good commander... a monetary one. I host serpent's ire once a week or so, and you'd be amazed how much I rake in with tips alone. It varies wildly, but my current record in 49 gold. People were really generous that day...

[mindcircus.1506]

@chrisjfinlay.5614 said:May as well leave the squad and just run free.

Or you know...tag up yourself since you seem to have a good idea of what a commander should and should not do.

[Danikat.8537]

@"MachineManXX.9746" said:Sometimes a "commander" will reluctantly tag up simply because no one else will and it's often better to at least have a tag, rather than none. Just realize that people may know that they are not a very good commander but do what they can to help out, and that may mean tagging up so at least there is a visual on the map. Many times, that is enough to draw people to the event and result in success.

TLDR - Don't be too harsh on sub-par commanders, they may already know they are sub-par but are just trying to succeed when needed.

This too.

I don't have a commander tag but more than once I've switched on my mentor tag because people felt the portable map marker would be useful and no one else was able or willing to tag up. If I don't know what to do I try to make it clear I am acting strictly as a marker, but I always feel like people are expecting more than that. Although I only remember once when anyone actually said anything, and that was just 'great "mentoring"!' - just before they left the map and I think blocked me, because I wasn't able to reply.

[Zaklex.6308]

There's another option for those commanders that can't type out messages in squad and use TS while also fighting. Since all metas and bosses are basically the exact same thing each time, create a template of what needs to be said in a document outside of GW2, then you only have to copy and paste, much faster that typing and the message will be the same every single time.

[Mandragorin.5978]

Re: Specifically commanding in verdant brink. No matter how well I explain, how many squad messages, how many prompt messages.....the lemmings follow me. They tend to refuse to spread out. After a good taxi time, I tag down if they aren't spreading.

[Danikat.8537]

@Mandragorin.5978 said:Re: Specifically commanding in verdant brink. No matter how well I explain, how many squad messages, how many prompt messages.....the lemmings follow me. They tend to refuse to spread out. After a good taxi time, I tag down if they aren't spreading.

The same thing happens with guilds doing guild missions or other 'private' activities that involve a group of more than 5 players. Random extra people will show up and follow the commander around, even after being told it's not something they can really join in with.

[GreyWolf.8670]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I didn't read OP because he admits it's a rant, but I have to say this: commander pays 300g for the tag and has no obligation to provide any service for you.

What does this even mean? They paid gold for something so we have to follow them?

[Mewcifer.5198]

As a Triple Trouble commander I assure you that with me you will always get an explanation in squad as well as lot's of encouragement and praise after the fight it over.

The biggest gripe I have ever had with a commander was in dragon stand. The person tagged up and then didn't say anything the entire fight. Myself and someone else had to explain how to do the blighting tree to people and get a boss group set up. Then the commander proceeded to do the blighting tree wrong and was just running around in circles not killing the preservers. Luckily this other person and myself had enough experience to get people in line and get things done.

It wasn't until after the mouth of mordremoth was dead that the 'commander' said anything. And it was along the lines of "Thanks everyone! We did it!"

I was salty for days.

Edit to add: I was literally begging the commander to hand the tag over to either the other person or me so that we could marker preserver locations and stuff. No such luck. They never responded to anything anyone said and were completely silent the whole fight.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I didn't read OP because he admits it's a rant, but I have to say this: commander pays 300g for the tag and has no obligation to provide any service for you.

I agree but at the same time, a person tagged up and not commanding can cause confusion and make it difficult for someone who is actually trying to command and be helpful to get people into their squad. It just seems sort of rude.