Ascended Items should be stat-swappable

[Ayakaru.6583]

Ascended items are stat swappableIt's just not free unlike legs. Just visit the mystic forge

[Voltekka.2375]

@Ceit.7619 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:

Legendary armor in pvp and wvw are not about skins (they have no unique skins). Theyre about the QoL of free stat-and runeswapping. In that regard, ascended shouldnt have the same treatment. Legendary armor costs a LOT more gold to make. Statswapping a full ascended set costs a minor amount of gold (exceptions minstrel and trailblazer). You want that statswapping feature? Make legendary armor. Ascended is cheap enough as it is.

First off, pvp has literally nothing to do with QoL stat or rune swapping. Pvp lobby gets that for free because at least in that game mode, the devs understand that build freedom makes a difference and they don't want pvp people being forced to grind for gold in order to play the game mode of their choice. Making legendary armor on it's own wouldn't even be enough to have true freedom either, which is why most people I know who have legendary armor barely ever switch it around. You would need a legendary weapon for every weapon your individual class knows, and the level of grind that people are suggesting is acceptable just so you can easily play OFF META builds is ridiculous. Legendary things have no real value beyond the status and the skin. The stat swapping feature is just a slap in the face, but it seems more people like the punishment of that.

I think it's just insane that people really think having freedom to play different builds on any class in an easy matter should involve at least 3 sets of legendary armor, a legendary backpiece, 4 legendary trinkets (3 of which don't exist) and a bunch of legendary weapons. All for the 'convenience' of being able to play your class as you imagine a build to be without tossing significant amounts of gold down the toilet.

PvP players can and do play other modes, as well (crazy, I know!). Also, build diversity in pvp is also not a thing really, cause most classes play one or 2 builds. Not much diversity there.You want to play different builds? Wvw is the only mode i can think of. Get exotic armor chests from reward tracks, buy trinkets from lw3 reward tracks. Not too hard. But the "i want everything and i want it NOW" mentality is not good for the game, its market (wouldnt be too health for materials which would crash) or setting long term goals. And long term goals keep this game running

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Ceit.7619 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:At one point, Legendary items

were

solely about the skins. That was not enough for the people who felt that the effort/expense in getting one should offer something more. ANet gave them stat switch.

People also complained that Ascended was alt character and build experimentation unfriendly. So, ANet made them account bound and provided a means to change stats on demand with a little effort and expense. That's enough of a concession as far as I'm concerned. Ascended was put in to be a longer-term goal for people who wanted that type of play. If the OP wants to experiment, let him try his new builds with Exotics.

I suppose I'm just of the strange opinion that people should be able to freely try out different builds without incurring tedious, ridiculous expenses and possessing 3 sets of armor per character.

For the first reason is ascended is easy to get while leggy demands hard work

[meowtier.1364]

@Ceit.7619 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:At one point, Legendary items

were

solely about the skins. That was not enough for the people who felt that the effort/expense in getting one should offer something more. ANet gave them stat switch.

People also complained that Ascended was alt character and build experimentation unfriendly. So, ANet made them account bound and provided a means to change stats on demand with a little effort and expense. That's enough of a concession as far as I'm concerned. Ascended was put in to be a longer-term goal for people who wanted that type of play. If the OP wants to experiment, let him try his new builds with Exotics.

I suppose I'm just of the strange opinion that people should be able to freely try out different builds without incurring tedious, ridiculous expenses and possessing 3 sets of armor per character.

I mean... getting exotic gear to try out other builds is actually.. not tedious or very expensive apart for a couple of stats that are expensive to craft. At least there is stat selectable exotic armor that's fairly easy to get if you put in like.. any amount of effort. Sure it won't be optimal but why are you looking to min max builds you're even just TESTING?

It's not a strange opinion and the option IS there if you put in some money. If you're really that dedicated to try out new builds and don't wanna go the exotic route then you should be more than willing to make some legendary gear and/or spend the gold to stat swap ascended.

I don't think there's an issue in how gear functions because legendary is practically useless to go for if ascended got the ability to stat swap without the forge. I think the main issue here is that you're not exactly willing to do what needs to be done to get what you want.

Also as other people have mentioned getting and stat swapping ascended isn't THAT tedious or expensive. If you do fractals or metas regularly you should have a decent income in game AND have the chance to even have ascended boxes drop.

[Astralporing.1957]

@meowtier.1364 said:Legendaries aren't legendary just for the skins and status. That stat swapping is part of that.There's 3 ways to get legendary armor you should probably just get a set.

Problem is that there is a core PvP path, a core WvW path, but there is no core PvE path at all. The only path in PvE is in a minor sidecontent most pve players do not play.

[meowtier.1364]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"meowtier.1364" said:Legendaries aren't legendary just for the skins and status. That stat swapping is part of that.There's 3 ways to get legendary armor you should probably just get a set.

Problem is that there is a core PvP path, a core WvW path, but there is no core PvE path at all. The only path in PvE is in a minor sidecontent most pve players do not play.

What.. do u mean... pve players do not play.. the pve content that results in pve legendary armor ?I don't know what you mean by "core" because the pvp and wvw armor comes from doing stuff in those game modes.. as does the pve armor because raids are............... pve. Sure it's not open world pve and they require a bit more time and effort but also raid armor actually has unique skins so it's really no surprise that it doesn't come from running around doing world bosses and map metas.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@meowtier.1364 said:Legendaries aren't legendary just for the skins and status. That stat swapping is part of that.There's 3 ways to get legendary armor you should probably just get a set.

Problem is that there is a core PvP path, a core WvW path, but there is no core PvE path at all. The only path in PvE is in a minor sidecontent most pve players do not play.

Also why is it not like gen1 legy weps all would love if an envoy pre dropped with the abillity to craft without li and sellable on tp i think its reasonable too let people have obtaining it as hard they feel thet can handle having them with a reasonable drop rate of 5%(due too its garantueed in raids through anchies) from any enemy in game

[Jahroots.6791]

@Ceit.7619 said:I suppose I'm just of the strange opinion that people should be able to freely try out different builds without incurring tedious, ridiculous expenses and possessing 3 sets of armor per character.

The expense is fair, but the real solution is build templates.

[windbliss.3158]

@Ceit.7619 said:As the title says. Legendary quality should be about the skins, the status of it, the particle effects, all the things people always end up paying to have anyways. Having ascended items be quickly stat-swappable (I.E. Not having to toss each piece and some gold into the MF just to try out a build idea, and if it doesn't work out have to do it again to go back to the 'meta') would bring in a lot more build diversity and remove the major punishment involved in running off-meta things. Ascended quality gear is expensive or grindy to get for a relatively minor stat increase, but making it able to select your stats on the fly would really add a lot to the game. I would even gladly trade the account-binding nature of ascended items and put it back to soulbound, if only they would give us the ability to actually play around with builds again. It was a staple in GW1, and the functionality to select stats is already in the game, it would just need to be expanded to encompass ascended weapons and not just the ridiculously expensive legendaries.

As much as you've made a point about this. I am unfortunately going to stand against this. Legendary takes a kitten-load of effort and time to make/acquire, and because of this, legendaries should remain malleable. Ascended gear is perhaps roughly 1/250 the pain and tears required (all you need is T7 mats and timegates aside requires a bit of world farming and salvaging). And we already have a means to reset the stats on an ascended item -- the Anthology of Heroes. True, you'll need to spend more on the other components but the expense is TRIVIAL compared to making a legendary. I am still NOWHERE near getting my Twilight done and I've made significant progress.

So, no. I understand your frustrations, but there should be other ways to allow build experimentation. Further trivialising something that is trivial to begin with is not one of them.

[Dante.1763]

@Jahroots.6791 said:

@"Ceit.7619" said:I suppose I'm just of the strange opinion that people should be able to freely try out different builds without incurring tedious, ridiculous expenses and possessing 3 sets of armor per character.

The expense is fair, but the real solution is

build templates

.

Thats not really a solution to this.."issue" i guess. Youd still have to swap out stats if you only had one set, and youd still have to have 3 sets of armor in your inventory if you wanted to have 3 different builds.

[Jahroots.6791]

A properly designed build template would essentially allow you to equip multiple sets of gear and trait/skill load outs on separate 'pages', but only use one at a time. One would be able to set up their Ranger as a Harrier Druid on one page and Viper Soulbeast on another, for example. Switching between the two should be do-able out of combat with a couple of clicks in the Hero panel.

The cost (both gold and time) of two or three complete sets of Ascended gear would still be significantly less than one of Legendary.

[Dante.1763]

@"Jahroots.6791" said:A properly designed build template would essentially allow you to equip multiple sets of gear and trait/skill load outs on separate 'pages', but only use one at a time. One would be able to set up their Ranger as a Harrier Druid on one page and Viper Soulbeast on another, for example. Switching between the two should be do-able out of combat with a couple of clicks in the Hero panel.

The cost (both gold and time) of two or three complete sets of Ascended gear would still be significantly less than one of Legendary.

Yes it would, but i have doubts theyd allow you to "equip" so to say more than one set at a time. I want build templates dont get me wrong, i just dont think its the fix for this "issue" that the OP is looking for.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

If this game ever wants to get click-and-load build templates, then I consider it as a big plus when all items from level 80 Exotic and higher would become stat-swappable.Why also exotics? Because exotics, ascendeds and legendaries is what is being heavily used by level-80 players. If you want to be able to ping a build to your fellow player, they should be able to take on the stats in a few clicks.

This of course, removes exclusivity of a feature that is now linked to legendary items. However, this could be compensated in another way for example by giving each and every legendary item one (1) additional infusion slot allowing for slightly higher stats.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Without the exclusivity of stat swapping, after this change, Legendaries would be an awfully expensive and long grind for mere particle effects (something many people in GW2 wish could be toned down in the first place)

My main has full ascended, and I'm OK with not being able to stat swap, or have particle effects, mainly because I'm not interested (at this point) in the long grind to farming legendary.

As it is, we should be grateful that ANET has taken this stance. Legendary gear is not an upgrade to Ascended gear, therefore, if you want the 'highest stats' available, you are not required to grind your soul to craft a full set. Legendary is primarily for the stat swap and the particle effects; for those who craft it for epeen boost, well, instead of hours of farming in GW2 they would be better off spending that time in therapy.

[Savez.4657]

Introduction of raiding made this game worse than others in this sense. If Anet really wanted it, at least they could add all the options that would make it easier. Or allow dedicated add-ons . Never saw a game that requires multiple sets with such a cost in gold terms. E.G. in wow, rift and Others u can get your "off-spec" gear without spending a cent, just playing.

[Pifil.5193]

I'd like the see them add the ability to "unlock" attributes and sigils or runes on individual pieces of equipment, this would have a cost between 3 to 5 stat swaps. For example, I have an Ascended sword and I want to add Viper's to it, I get a number of Inscriptions and other bits together and fuse them with the weapon in the forge. Now I can select Viper's from the drop down list (but there's only Viper's in that list until I unlock others). The same with sigils and maybe infusions. Legendary weapons should be able to freely choose any Sigil, IMO.

[Jahroots.6791]

@"Dante.1763" said:Yes it would, but i have doubts theyd allow you to "equip" so to say more than one set at a time. I want build templates dont get me wrong, i just dont think its the fix for this "issue" that the OP is looking for.

It's not, but I think it's the best and most realistic outcome we can hope for.

A build template that requires you to keep the gear in your inventory would be clumsy. The entire point of templates is to streamline the experience.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Ceit.7619 said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:At one point, Legendary items

were

solely about the skins. That was not enough for the people who felt that the effort/expense in getting one should offer something more. ANet gave them stat switch.

People also complained that Ascended was alt character and build experimentation unfriendly. So, ANet made them account bound and provided a means to change stats on demand with a little effort and expense. That's enough of a concession as far as I'm concerned. Ascended was put in to be a longer-term goal for people who wanted that type of play. If the OP wants to experiment, let him try his new builds with Exotics.

I suppose I'm just of the strange opinion that people should be able to freely try out different builds without incurring tedious, ridiculous expenses and possessing 3 sets of armor per character.

And I'm of the strange opinion that if you "need" Ascended gear to be able to try a build, that you've bought into the "work for BiS gear" paradigm that ANet embraced at the behest of players in late 2012 to 2013.

[Evil.1580]

@meowtier.1364 said:Legendaries aren't legendary just for the skins and status. That stat swapping is part of that.There's 3 ways to get legendary armor you should probably just get a set.

Was off for almost a year. What are the 3 ways to get legendary set? PVP/WVW/RAIDS or is there a PVE option now?

[meowtier.1364]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@meowtier.1364 said:Legendaries aren't legendary just for the skins and status. That stat swapping is part of that.There's 3 ways to get legendary armor you should probably just get a set.

Was off for almost a year. What are the 3 ways to get legendary set? PVP/WVW/RAIDS or is there a PVE option now?

Raids are a pve option. Yes there's WvW + PvP now

[Sinful.2165]

@Ceit.7619 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

Legendary armor in pvp and wvw are not about skins (they have no unique skins). Theyre about the QoL of free stat-and runeswapping. In that regard, ascended shouldnt have the same treatment. Legendary armor costs a LOT more gold to make. Statswapping a full ascended set costs a minor amount of gold (exceptions minstrel and trailblazer). You want that statswapping feature? Make legendary armor. Ascended is cheap enough as it is.

First off, pvp has literally nothing to do with QoL stat or rune swapping. Pvp lobby gets that for free because at least in that game mode, the devs understand that build freedom makes a difference and they don't want pvp people being forced to grind for gold in order to play the game mode of their choice. Making legendary armor on it's own wouldn't even be enough to have true freedom either, which is why most people I know who have legendary armor barely ever switch it around. You would need a legendary weapon for every weapon your individual class knows, and the level of grind that people are suggesting is acceptable just so you can easily play OFF META builds is ridiculous. Legendary things have no real value beyond the status and the skin. The stat swapping feature is just a slap in the face, but it seems more people like the punishment of that.

I think it's just insane that people really think having freedom to play different builds on any class in an easy matter should involve at least 3 sets of legendary armor, a legendary backpiece, 4 legendary trinkets (3 of which don't exist) and a bunch of legendary weapons. All for the 'convenience' of being able to play your class as you imagine a build to be without tossing significant amounts of gold down the toilet.

Okay, first of all if you want to try some off meta build generally the exotic runes necessary to stat change in the mystic forge are dirt cheap. It’s switching back that’ll cost you 60ish gold. That is a very small price to pay. If you are trying to tell me that is too expensive to experiment then you should just test these builds in exotic gear instead of asking Anet to take away the primary reason to have legendary gear.

A lot of the legendary skins are not impressive at all, some of them are quite ugly. They are amazingly expensive to craft and for the cost involved (2k gold average) you’re essentially purchasing all the stat changes you’ll do in the future.

You’re asking for one of the best features in the game to be given to you for free and invalidate the hard work so many other people have done to earn this.

[Ceit.7619]

The only thing that comes to mind reading most of these replies is that there is some kind of Stockholm syndrome going on with a lot of people. It wouldn't hurt anything to let people be able to experiment with different stat combos with ascended gear instead of legendary. It would improve the health of the game in general. Making the ascended items themselves soulbound instead of account bound would keep the material market in a fine place as well. For an account like mine with 1 of every class, In order to get to a place where I could have literally 'free' customization with what so many people are calling basically a freebie, would require getting 102 Ascended weapons, 9 sets of ascended armor (54 Individual pieces) 9 Back items, 18 Rings, 18 Trinkets, 9 Necklaces.

Is this less expensive than legendary? Sure it is. I'd politely remind people though that Guild Wars 1 gave you this level of customization for NOTHING, and the market in the game survived it's entire duration just fine with Obsidian armor being a hugely expensive status set that didn't have to be obtained just so you could play the game in a way that doesn't penalize you for wanting to try something new.

[Dante.1763]

@Ceit.7619 said:The only thing that comes to mind reading most of these replies is that there is some kind of Stockholm syndrome going on with a lot of people. It wouldn't hurt anything to let people be able to experiment with different stat combos with ascended gear instead of legendary. It would improve the health of the game in general. Making the ascended items themselves soulbound instead of account bound would keep the material market in a fine place as well. For an account like mine with 1 of every class, In order to get to a place where I could have literally 'free' customization with what so many people are calling basically a freebie, would require getting 102 Ascended weapons, 9 sets of ascended armor (54 Individual pieces) 9 Back items, 18 Rings, 18 Trinkets, 9 Necklaces.

Is this less expensive than legendary? Sure it is. I'd politely remind people though that Guild Wars 1 gave you this level of customization for NOTHING, and the market in the game survived it's entire duration just fine with Obsidian armor being a hugely expensive status set that didn't have to be obtained just so you could play the game in a way that doesn't penalize you for wanting to try something new.

It would however devalue one of the single largest gold sinks this game has, which would in turn have cascading effects. This game is NOT GW1, the only thing this game shares with GW1 is lore in almost every single aspect. You can experiment with ascended sets, its not that expensive to swap out an entire set of weapons and armor ive done it a few times already, yes theres a cost, and there should remain one. Ascended gear was soulbound when it first launched and theres a huge pushback about it, thankfully they made it account bound, and i want it to stay that way, because ive moved sets around to various characters several times, and i hate crafting so making a new one is a huge pain for me.

[meowtier.1364]

@Ceit.7619 said:The only thing that comes to mind reading most of these replies is that there is some kind of Stockholm syndrome going on with a lot of people. It wouldn't hurt anything to let people be able to experiment with different stat combos with ascended gear instead of legendary.

You can already do this with ascended.. if you're willing to spend some gold each time ;)

[Ceit.7619]

@Dante.1763 said:

It would however devalue one of the single largest gold sinks this game has, which would in turn have cascading effects. This game is NOT GW1, the only thing this game shares with GW1 is lore in almost every single aspect. You can experiment with ascended sets, its not that expensive to swap out an entire set of weapons and armor ive done it a few times already, yes theres a cost, and there should remain one. Ascended gear was soulbound when it first launched and theres a huge pushback about it, thankfully they made it account bound, and i want it to stay that way, because ive moved sets around to various characters several times, and i hate crafting so making a new one is a huge pain for me.

I think you are kind of helping my point here in a way. If the gear had stat swapping on it, you wouldn't necessarily have to be moving stuff around all the time like that. I am aware ascended things used to be soulbound, and I have often times used the account binding nature of these items as well. Took all my gear off my necro and gave it to my mesmer. I used to slide a power-heavy set of armor around on all 3 of the heavy classes, once upon a time when they all used the same rough stat setup. It's all just a very clunky way to be able to play the game. I'm well aware gw1 and gw2 are separate games, and I'm not advocating it become that game. Just saying that being able to change stats freely is a QoL function that should exist here because it is good for the community. Not everyone thinks dropping 60g just to try something out is feasible.