Best Change Ever!!!

[syszery.1592]

But... But... All my permanent finishers are now useless. Can I get a refund? <3

[Exciton.8942]

Haha, just play your 20k damage backstab a thief and enjoy 1 combo kill.

This game is such a joke.

[Emberheart.8426]

@Pinko.2076 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:So a counter to those groups that are behaving like that would be a group of your own doing the same thing right? Is that not a strategy to counter their strategy? Is not not the whole idea of World versus World?

That doesn't make anything better though. It's already problematic that you need a similar group comp to your enemy to play effectively against them. This doesn't change that, it just changes the optimal group comp and makes a different set of classes useless in WvW.

Pick teams used to be very common in GvG's, and that showed us that no, comps were not NEARLY as static as they are now. Now in GvG's the notable different between comps is 2-3 players. Previously the comps were extremely varied and guilds had much more identifiable styles.

Subjectively, I think it does make things better. There's far more dynamic, skill-based gameplay from shifting the classes that are valuable vs. not valuable from ScourgeFirebrand to Thief and Mesmer. Even if they had to be nerfed some to make this permanent. Players have so much more impact on their group's success with pick teams existing and being important. Having a backline rev with the skill to navigate a gank attempt would be a big deal compared to the average GW2 skilled player that just falls over without pressing any buttons in the appropriate order. There's inherently more ability to display skill with more situations being possible, and with downstate, pick is not possible.

I'm only arguing that it wouldn't make things better if balancing wasn't changed. Even you admit that there would need to be some rebalancing for it to work well. Call me cynical, but I have no faith in Anet getting the balance for this right. If they make the right nerfs, then by all means you have my support. But even with the current meta, they have been way too slow to make adjustments.

Scourge and firebrand have been dominating since PoF release, and the prospect of thief and mesmer destroying everyone for a year does not excite me either. In fact it may excite me even less, because even if you win they just run away, which is pretty forgiving for an environment where everyone else has to respawn very far away. Though I guess my main problem may be with mesmer. At least thief has to commit initiative in order to secure a kill, which can hamper mobility. Mesmer on the other hand doesn't have to sacrifice anything to burst you down.

Anyway, I didn't intend to get that deep into a discussion about WvW balance and everything. I only posted in this thread to point out that no downstate has it's positives, but that the game is nowhere near balanced enough to make it a fun experience in the long term. I'd love the devs to pull it off and prove me wrong though, but I know that won't be happening any time soon. I'm done posting here because I said everything that I needed to say.

[Jski.6180]

There far too many effects in the game that revolved arone down state rezing and spiking for this to ever stay. You could see a down state once before full down or even a re-balancing of hp in down sate as well as no condi clear / dmg prevention making down sate all the less effective but you will never see it as it is in wvw now.

[Redponey.8352]

@Pinko.2076 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"Trajan.4953" said:So a counter to those groups that are behaving like that would be a group of your own doing the same thing right? Is that not a strategy to counter their strategy? Is not not the whole idea of World versus World?

That doesn't make anything better though. It's already problematic that you need a similar group comp to your enemy to play effectively against them. This doesn't change that, it just changes the optimal group comp and makes a different set of classes useless in WvW.

Pick teams used to be very common in GvG's, and that showed us that no, comps were not NEARLY as static as they are now. Now in GvG's the notable different between comps is 2-3 players. Previously the comps were extremely varied and guilds had much more identifiable styles.

Subjectively, I think it does make things better. There's far more dynamic, skill-based gameplay from shifting the classes that are valuable vs. not valuable from ScourgeFirebrand to Thief and Mesmer. Even if they had to be nerfed some to make this permanent. Players have so much more impact on their group's success with pick teams existing and being important. Having a backline rev with the skill to navigate a gank attempt would be a big deal compared to the average GW2 skilled player that just falls over without pressing any buttons in the appropriate order. There's inherently more ability to display skill with more situations being possible, and with downstate, pick is not possible.

Yeah i totally agree with you

I personnally still thinking that anet put this event over a week to see statistically how this may change build and meta (burst power build vs condi duration dmg or hybrid)but this is still no the way to get variability in meta... it only just push people to play with even more defensive stats (toughness , vitality) and more pirateship gameplay style.

actually one of the biggest issue is that scourge break all opportunities to have an impact on ennemy group ( i mean melee leap-in) by having they sand shade on them and ennemy + all debuff control/damage/condi application.

I used to play since the start of GW2 in WvW but now fight is became tasteless and no fun at all. I dont even have the pleasure to tag up, it became more a pain than a pleasure like in past

When i just watch old vids about old meta and teamplay/withbig bomb fight with not that much pirateship. There was real strategy and a rhythm in fight not just push push push or pirateship pirateship.....

For people that doesnt know what i'm talking about check this out :

those type of fight was more entertaining than now ...

I MISS OLD DAYS :'( (sit in a corner and cry)

[Rampage.7145]

Magumma server aproves this event, we wish this was a permanent feature, is way easier to deal with 50 people blobs with lesser numbers with no downstate since you can punish the bad players out position with no chances for them to just get rezzed by their W111111 spamming blob, 10/10 arenanet u have something really good going here make it permanet pls.

[Imperadordf.2687]

Since "No Downstate" will never be a thing,

N e r f D o w n s t a t e

[Tyyphoon.5301]

@"Rampage.7145" said:

Magumma server aproves this event, we wish this was a permanent feature, is way easier to deal with 50 people blobs with lesser numbers with no downstate since you can punish the bad players out position with no chances for them to just get rezzed by their W111111 spamming blob, 10/10 arenanet u have something really good going here make it permanet pls.

+1. Please make permanent. Reset was quite enjoyable reminiscent of years back when 1vX was possible.

[Solaris.2489]

We got steamrolled quite often but also had some glorious moments with surprise portal spikes and blasting people away that try to block siege and escape inside a tower. Also no more having to rez team mates that think they are a one man army and dont listen to the commander in ts.

[Straegen.9534]

Awesome and I hope the downed state never comes back. Skill now has a real chance to beat numbers in small and large scale play. Zerg screws up are painful rather than allowing a core of bunkers to nearly reconstitute their numbers constantly. I would even take it a step further. You die you have to port.

[LetoII.3782]

@"Tyyphoon.5301" said:

+1. Please make permanent. Reset was quite enjoyable

^Best change to date.Been like a celebration since the moment it went livehttps://youtu.be/4j9x_vPefn8?t=45s

[Arheundel.6451]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

There are classes which are too strong in a zerg vs zerg setting and they are so strong to even cover any sort of small scale because they have access to OP ressing traits like

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transfusion

; when the game came out it was possible for a small skilled group to take on a larger zerg and everybody enjoyed wvw which was several times more populated than now then ..HoT happened and it gave us : reapers which were merely the beginning of the end

That's accurate and all, but it doesn't really address my points. You are simply shifting the OPness to different builds. Without proper rebalancing, you will simply have a different form of cancer. I wouldn't mind a small group engaging a larger one and winning because of skill, but what I do mind is something like stealth gank groups abusing this to kill people and leave so quickly that it's impossible to respond. The only counter is another such group, because it's only then that you can catch up to their mobility.

Isn't that what other professions experience in wvw because of scourges?The main aim of wvw is to enjoy large scale battles but this has become virtually impossible for 5-6 classes out of 9 because scourges/firebrand cover over 80% of all spots in a 50 man zerg, stealth group are not fair...but neither are the invincible wall of aoe condi bombs and barrier spam, so something must be done for both of them...if not we should allow both of them to exist

[aspirine.5839]

@Tyyphoon.5301 said:

@"Rampage.7145" said:

Magumma server aproves this event, we wish this was a permanent feature, is way easier to deal with 50 people blobs with lesser numbers with no downstate since you can punish the bad players out position with no chances for them to just get rezzed by their W111111 spamming blob, 10/10 arenanet u have something really good going here make it permanet pls.

+1. Please make permanent. Reset was quite enjoyable reminiscent of years back when 1vX was possible.

Only thing about the reset I could complain about is that our ques doubled. :) So changing maps? impossible, stay where you are or que wars all night.

[phokus.8934]

Phenomenal change that does make it so outbumbered groups can have a chance of winning.

With that said, this brings to light on how fast someone can be revived from downstate. Changing how fast health is restored should be looked at and toned down quite a bit.

Overall, WvW is pretty much the same and the complaints I’m reading honestly sound like people haven’t played yet. Or just want to auto follow a commander and collect pips.

[Decado.9304]

I enjoyed the reset, much better than normal.

Prolly not something i would change permanent but i do think it would be good to incorporate it into every match each week, maybe have x hours/scirmishes/days out of the week with no downed state and a massive PPK/WXP bonus for every kill. Don't imagine it would change the scope of a match but could make it just a bit more interesting.

[aspirine.5839]

Since it's already a gimmick map, and they will not remove it. Make the desert BL a no downstate map. Would make it a bit more popular.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Dusty Moon.4382 said:This is a nonsense change. All it does is benefits blob servers, like the top tiers. The servers that Havoc do not have a chance.

CHANGE IT BACK or penalize blobs some way - limit AoE skills or something.

I actually digress. My guild runs havoc (never zergs or blobs unless there is a good ol ZvZ, after the fight we bail from the zerg...we love fights) and we won many outnumbered fights. Us 7ish beat a group of 13ish. It was fantastic. No scourges or trapper DH or staff eles on my team either. Was finally skill vs skill instead of skill vs numbers.

Eventually we did get steamrolled by a much larger zerg, however even before the event we would have (~30 of them)

Havoc and small scale have a better chance of survival as any decent group knows how to properly focus fire and use strats.

Only downside is I cant use my newly obtained stomp (llama) and that beating those in similar size or smaller is less satisfying, however actually winning outnumbered fights makes up for it.

[Silinsar.6298]

@Ganathar.4956 said:High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced.

Yeah. Some classes are very strong for burst and run tactics and TTK got too low due to expansion power creep. But "no downed state" doesn't create that problem, it only highlights it. Thieves and Mesmers are the classes having the least problems finishing people under pressure compared to other bursters, due to having access to stealth + port tricks (and mirage can just dodge during it). So the playstyle would become more viable, but you'd also see risk pay off more for classes that don't excel at finishing. Thief and Mes also have a downed state facilitating that playstyle (stealth and/or port to get out of AoE pressure / denying stomps and give fellow bursters a chance to res), which makes other classes less attractive for a burst group.

@Ganathar.4956 said:ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing.

ACs rarely kill fast (it's more pressure than burst) and the damage is usually predictable. Keeping players together and baiting them with a downed person likely does more harm overall than killing 1-2 careless players.

@Ganathar.4956 said:And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything.

True, and your strongest point. Though at this point, a rework to Scrapper's function gyro mechanic would be quite welcome I guess. There should also be alternatives for minor traits that empower reviving. That's about half a dozen traits + function gyro. I think siege can mostly stay as it is, skills and traits too. Hardly what I'd call a huge rework.

@Ganathar.4956 said:The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

Then again, sometimes one gets the feeling the game wasn't even designed with WvW in mind. A lot of things work and perform differently there than in other modes, downed state could too imo. I'd say if it turns out a lot of people are having fun with it, it might be worth pursuing the idea further.

[megilandil.7506]

@Israel.7056 said:I made a post years ago talking about getting rid of downed state and I've had to wait this long to get to try it out but it's just as awesome as I thought it would be.

No downstate is amazing ANET please consider making this a permanent feature.

It makes the combat much feel more tense and high stakes and it feels great to just blow people up and be done with them.

It also makes outnumbered fights much more feasible which is always good imo.

Seriously please consider making this a permanent change to WvW.

No, its the worse idea that they can have, they overreward the cancer oneshot builds, makes the game unplayable if you dont go in a big blob or run a cancer oneshot build

[Simonoly.4352]

From my brief time of playing with it I think it's a fun event but ultimately downed state adds an extra layer of complexity to combat that I'd be sad to see leave. One of my favourite parts of being solo and outnumbered is considering how I'm going to defeat someone once I actually down them, usually through careful consideration of defensive cooldowns. Now it's basically just pick a target, vomit everything I have at it, then simply move on to the next target and carry on - something I can do in any other game. It's all a bit easy now and because damage is so incredibly high in WvW now fights end very quickly. I prefer to draw out the misery!

Oh well. Fun event though. I imagine it's good for zerglings as the fights end much quicker - although I have noticed that people are back to pirate shipping hard right now :D

[aspirine.5839]

@megilandil.7506 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I made a post years ago talking about getting rid of downed state and I've had to wait this long to get to try it out but it's just as awesome as I thought it would be.

No downstate is amazing ANET please consider making this a permanent feature.

It makes the combat much feel more tense and high stakes and it feels great to just blow people up and be done with them.

It also makes outnumbered fights much more feasible which is always good imo.

Seriously please consider making this a permanent change to WvW.

No, its the worse idea that they can have, they overreward the cancer oneshot builds, makes the game unplayable if you dont go in a big blob or run a cancer oneshot build

Hmm without this event 99% already run in a blob. So no change there.One shot builds have always been strong, the did not get stronger overnight. If you die from them now, before you have also died. So again, what's changed then?

[megilandil.7506]

@aspirine.5839 said:

@megilandil.7506 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I made a post years ago talking about getting rid of downed state and I've had to wait this long to get to try it out but it's just as awesome as I thought it would be.

No downstate is amazing ANET please consider making this a permanent feature.

It makes the combat much feel more tense and high stakes and it feels great to just blow people up and be done with them.

It also makes outnumbered fights much more feasible which is always good imo.

Seriously please consider making this a permanent change to WvW.

No, its the worse idea that they can have, they overreward the cancer oneshot builds, makes the game unplayable if you dont go in a big blob or run a cancer oneshot build

Hmm without this event 99% already run in a blob. So no change there.One shot builds have always been strong, the did not get stronger overnight. If you die from them now, before you have also died. So again, what's changed then?

what changed? easy, one shot builds, unfortunately are the same that have high reset/evade, uptime(thieves and mes basically) now can gank/troll easily more large groups, before downeds can harras them whith their interrups , atacks etc, now simply they have to eliminate one by one the easy way

changes to this game mode have to be in the way to discourage big blobing and make more tactical multigroup map moving, one way to easy discourage the big blobing is removing the objectives limit on AOE(also lowering their damage to balance) a blob walks on a trap/meteor shower/ arrow cart/necro mark... all blob eats dmgthe soaking dmg by being staked big numbes is a mindless tactic

[cobbah.3102]

I love it this week but Anet just missed one thing should have been pre hot and really give us some enjoyment lose the total toxicity

[Brother.1504]

Got to play a few hours reset night solo roaming on my ranger for dailies, honestly didn’t notice much difference. Bursty professions were still bursty and those people that turn their back and run becoming a free bag did the same. Haven’t run with my guild yet in a zerg I’m sure the people that always seem to get downed by everything didn’t have a fun night.

[aspirine.5839]

@megilandil.7506 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@megilandil.7506 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I made a post years ago talking about getting rid of downed state and I've had to wait this long to get to try it out but it's just as awesome as I thought it would be.

No downstate is amazing ANET please consider making this a permanent feature.

It makes the combat much feel more tense and high stakes and it feels great to just blow people up and be done with them.

It also makes outnumbered fights much more feasible which is always good imo.

Seriously please consider making this a permanent change to WvW.

No, its the worse idea that they can have, they overreward the cancer oneshot builds, makes the game unplayable if you dont go in a big blob or run a cancer oneshot build

Hmm without this event 99% already run in a blob. So no change there.One shot builds have always been strong, the did not get stronger overnight. If you die from them now, before you have also died. So again, what's changed then?

what changed? easy, one shot builds, unfortunately are the same that have high reset/evade, uptime(thieves and mes basically) now can gank/troll easily more large groups, before downeds can harras them whith their interrups , atacks etc, now simply they have to eliminate one by one the easy way

You do realise that is why they are made in the first place right? They are made so small high burst players can chip of the zerg a bit. Only now it's more useful because they do not get instarezzed by the zerg. I only see the good thing in this.