EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards

NoiseRen.2403 · July 5, 2018

@melodyca.8921 said:
@Belorn.2659 said:
@"Ephemiel.5694" said:So many fighting among themselves rather than focusing on the fact that we have an insane kitten [that was apparently let go from her previous job for what we can assume were these exact reasons] on Anet's writing team.
Seriously, do a little search on who she is and what she's said, even mentioning she was glad that Totalbiscuit died.

Celebrating that someone has died to cancer is the kind of behaviour that lacks any sense of empathy or ability to understand human feelings. The idea that my money is being spent to support such person is currently making me feel sick, and can't imagine how a game studio can accept such behaviour for any of their employees.

From now on I will continuously mention to people that Anet is the employer of people that celebrate when people die to cancer, and that is the kind of co-worker that the developers has.

I agree thats wrong but many of these youtubers incite their fans to harass and bully developers. Do you consider that acceptable behavior?

"Hey they throw shit on us, let's do the same" argument.

Towelie.9504 · July 5, 2018

@melodyca.8921 said:
@Belorn.2659 said:
@Ephemiel.5694 said:So many fighting among themselves rather than focusing on the fact that we have an insane kitten [that was apparently let go from her previous job for what we can assume were these exact reasons] on Anet's writing team.
Seriously, do a little search on who she is and what she's said, even mentioning she was glad that Totalbiscuit died.

Celebrating that someone has died to cancer is the kind of behaviour that lacks any sense of empathy or ability to understand human feelings. The idea that my money is being spent to support such person is currently making me feel sick, and can't imagine how a game studio can accept such behaviour for any of their employees.

From now on I will continuously mention to people that Anet is the employer of people that celebrate when people die to cancer, and that is the kind of co-worker that the developers has.

I agree thats wrong but many of these youtubers incite their fans to harass and bully developers. Do you consider that acceptable behavior?

Not that it has anything to do with the topic at all but no that's not acceptable behavior but of course that's a useless rhetorical question you were asking or maybe you're just trying to throw random tangents out there to derail.

That sort of animosity towards someone to celebrate that they died is clearly psychotic

Manasa Devi.7958 · July 5, 2018

@thruine.8510 said:
@"Manasa Devi.7958" said:
I mean if you really believe that the internet is a cesspool because of all the developers' (creatives of all types, game developers, move directors, actors, etc.) constant barrage against fans, chasing them throughout social media, then I guess that's the way you see it.I don't care for this generalisation. I was talking about one instance.

That's not generalization. That is what so much of the internet has become. I never had heard the term social justice warrior until some video was complaining about it. This one instance is an example of the thousands out there. When you go to someone's house, her twitter feed, you don't tell them how to paint the walls. There was a lack of respect and it drew a response. I'm fairly confident he didn't mean to but I don't know. So many don't know their place and as fans we definitely have a place and we need to stop screaming and accept that.I meant I don't think that the "internet is a cesspool because of all the developers' (creatives of all types, game developers, move directors, actors, etc.) constant barrage against fans". That's the generalisation I was talking about. I was just commenting on this one person doing it.

Tolmos.8395 · July 5, 2018

@melodyca.8921 said:
@NoiseRen.2403 said:
@melodyca.8921 said:
@thruine.8510 said:
@"Blocki.4931" said:
Again, it's not about the offense that is taken or not. The behaviour enabling it on the other hand,...

No, I'm pretty sure I understand. She thought the guy was coming across as sexist due to his unoffered "help" to fix her work. Was he? Not to me. Just more of the same, "I'm a fan so I know how to fix the game correctly" crap we see everyday. But I'm not her. You aren't nor is anyone else. We don't know how it read to her. We don't know if this was the first time someone on the internet offered to help her with her job. Or was it the one hundredth. Again, if you don't like her response then think I don't like that and move on. Instead people are strolling through her Twitter feed for ammunition for what exactly? I mean exactly what are people doing and what purpose? To me it looks like just another internet "fan" pitchfork in hand party. This started on Twitter and moved to Reddit and is now here. What are people wanting exactly because I know what it looks like to me. I think there's a scene in Frankenstein that showcases it.

Keep in mind I don't know this woman and honestly don't care that much about if this affects her job or not. But fans on the internet... god, I'm so sick of this self righteous crap of mudslinging that goes on then crying about when someone says something to hurt their feelings. Its starting to get pathetic. Its gotten even more laughable with people talking about how it affects the game like you can feel the developer disgust of men through a quest to kill some centaurs. Its like the forums have been taken over by children even more than they have been.

I agree. If its one thing the internet has shown is that a great many gamers have an overblown sense of entitlement. I actually agree she was too harsh but there is a valid reason for that defense mechanism and that is due to the abuse developers have received by their fans. There are countless articles on the abuse developers have faced.

https://medium.com/@morganjaffit/the-cost-of-doing-business-c09cc5cc8728

https://medium.com/vutoken/dealing-with-abuse-inside-virtual-reality-fd57a2adff5a

And the point of those links for this discussion is? Every business which works with general population must be ready for abuse more so in the Internet.Don't want to have feedback? Use blogspot with comments off.And abuse is nit in even a problem here. JP posted in public media (twitter) her thoughts about story in MMOs. Of coungfor an interesting conversation, nothing more.The answer though. It's a disaster and that's more of an abuse than a polite initial statement.

I see you think its fine for developers to be threatened and harassed by entitled gamers who demand to be catered to.

I agree what she said was wrong but it goes both ways.

If someone is threatening, please report their post.

Who is demanding to be catered to? People are demanding a response from the company that the employee that spewed out hateful, bigoted speech was representing when they spewed it out. This shouldn't be surprising; it constantly happens in media and entertainment when someone makes deplorable statements openly. It makes national news, the person's life gets affected by it, etc etc. This is what Social Justice looks like, for better or worse.

Anyone threatening JP should be reported, and depending on the extent of the threat police should be involved. Anyone recommending making threats against JP should be reported, and depending on the extent the police should be involved as well.

But folks demanding that the company come out and denounce hate-speech is neither entitlement, nor is it demanding to be catered to.

Zoop.1360 · July 5, 2018

@Vayne.8563 said:
I don't know. I've defended coworkers before, because I know them and understand their point of view. Just as the dev over-reacted, so has the community. This is, at this point, nothing more than a witch hunt. The dev felt she was being singled out because she was a female dev. It's not likely but that's what her experience has taught her. The fuel on the fire isn't going to teach her any different.
Peter Fries did what anyone would do for a friend. He wasn't trying to throw fuel on the fire. He was helping a friend. We've all done it. In all of this, he's the guy who's reaction I understand the most.

For sure, but there comes a time where you need to understand that the people whose job it is to handle PR mishaps, should be the ones chiming in.Like I said, Jessica is obviously very frazzled and stressed (she even said so in another series of tweets), so she should be put on mandatory leave to recover. It's noble to want to protect a friend, but in a business situation (which this is), you need to know that trying to blame other people when your friend is behaving irrationally is not a good idea. And she was behaving very irrationally and he did blame other people for her behaviour.

I agree, the reaction to her is over the top. She doesn't need to get fired or anything like that. She needs help.

Leo G.4501 · July 5, 2018

@castlemanic.3198 said:
@"Leo G.4501" said:Where are these quantitative facts? I have never heard that female game developers get more hate
because
they are female. If it's true that female game developers get more hate, maybe it's because the products and changes they push aren't desired? That isn't sexism, that's consumerism.

Besides observable history?

https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/21/12241890/women-game-development

https://kotaku.com/d-d-wouldn-t-be-what-it-is-today-without-these-women-1796426183

http://theconversation.com/more-women-are-becoming-game-developers-but-theres-a-long-way-to-go-79843

https://mashable.com/2018/01/09/video-game-diversity/#JEcOTwVIjOqM

https://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-more-women-into-game-development-1783683864

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/games-industry-more-women-working-but-gender-bias-remains-issue/8741744

http://www.unite-it.eu/profiles/blogs/why-are-so-few-women-developing-video-games

https://www.polygon.com/2016/9/12/12891628/videogame-industry-salary-survey

Just a couple of articles for you that cover not only harassment from gamers but also stuff women deal with from their colleagues. And this is a quick google search.

None of that is hate. Having unequal representation isn't harassment. Not only that, you cite the same resource many times which is going to have a bias (especially kotaku).

Lastly, none of that is quantitative.

I bet you a large sum of money, if the shoe were on the other foot, and a male game developer were telling a female commentor to go back in the kitchen and make a sandwich or something, this wouldn't be the stance you'd take.
https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/star-wars-kelly-marie-tran-leaves-social-media-harassment-1202830892/
). So the truth works against you.

I'm actually well versed in the topic of star wars and the recent backlash. You do realize Rian J received far more hate and criticism than the actress if Rose. The only thruth is, when you take a beloved franchise and drag it through the mud of identity politics, your going to have a mud covered franchise that people don't like any more.

Besides, 'go make a sandwhich' is not on the same level of calling someone sexist for a difference in opinion. There isn't a good comparison because, again, men in general get less hate in the industry. You're free to ignore the very observable habits of women getting chased off of media platforms for death threats because they merely exist in the industry.

It's only not comparable because woman feel it's not, not because it is logically or quantifiably not comparable.

I'm going to say it right now: female game developers do not get more online hate, they just complain about it more. In fact, practically all the criticism laid on thick about this game, the ones expected to shoulder the responsibility for those failings are men. Even if women played a part in the teams that fail us, it's generally expected to be the man's fault. That's just how things go and its the other side of sexism that men have to deal with but usually never nag women about. Whenever a bad thing happens, it's a man's fault. Whenever backlash happens, it's not the woman's fault and you should empathize with her. Whenever something needs to be fixed, it's a man's problem to do the work. Whenever success is achieved and a woman is there, the woman will take an equal share of the credit even though she didn't put in an equal share of the work.
All of those observations, I assure you, any man will attest to but won't ever whine about.

As a man myself, let me make it clear that you are presenting a series of factually incorrect statements, especially with regards to the gaming industry.

Then prove it. You can say it's not true in the gaming industry, but how about in every other industry? How about the equality of work and published studies by men vs women in nursing? Or education? The facts are, men do go the extra mile but we will say women are still equally as hard working.

This isn't a shot at women because I know there are women out there that work their bum off. This is a jab at identity politicians who think rounding up statistics by gender mean anything for the individual. The only thing your article links tell me is there are women willing to complain about anything and weak willed men out there that just take their word for it.

Are you really going to tell me that she took credit for somebody else's work? There's a historical precedent for men to take sole credit of the work of women (which continues to this day) so your argument falls flat there.

I didn't say that. That is in context of everything. When there is a problem, it's the man's fault but when victory is abound, there will be women who share in the spoils.

Zoop.1360 · July 5, 2018

Although at this point if Arenanet hasn't responded, don't expect a response. They're just waiting for the whole thing to blow over.

Feithlinn.9284 · July 5, 2018

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@Dashingsteel.3410 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@Dashingsteel.3410 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we
definitely
don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

Your definition of sexism is either incomplete or outright false. You might want to check your sources.

My sources are just fine. Thanks for your interest.

Windu The Forbidden One.60 · July 5, 2018

@"Manasa Devi.7958" said:Now I've seen it all.
Found on reddit, a link to her tweet about the passing of TotalBiscuit.
https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048

Wow.... that is absolutely disgusting.

thruine.8510 · July 5, 2018

@"Manasa Devi.7958" said:Now I've seen it all.
Found on reddit, a link to her tweet about the passing of TotalBiscuit.
https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048

Thank you for posting that. It proves the point I've been making. Fans will engage in any type of mudslinging imagined over their perceived hurt feelings. Was she wrong in that post? You bet. I would have waited at least a month before making such a statement. But I have no problem if that's how she feels. I didn't care for the guy either but not enough to comment on his death. I don't think he exactly elevated the conversation between developers and fans. There are lots of YouTubers that make excellent points and lots that make great points but bury them under tirades which add up to nothing more that they know more than their subject. I enjoy Jim Sterling and hope him a long happy life but I wish he could make his point without the name calling and over the top language. Especially since his voice can carry so far but I suppose without all of that he wouldn't be where he's gotten without it.

Swagger.1459 · July 5, 2018

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@Dashingsteel.3410 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we
definitely
don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

You're the one who started the thread attacking- harassing - name and shaming (whatever synonym you want to use) a dev on their official forums. The mods already heard the "voices" in 2 previous threads that were closed down. But you had to start another thread to flare up the situation more...

It's hypocritical of you to ask for any type civility when your ultimate goal is to harass an employee you don't agree with.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46205/disappointment-with-anet-employee-attacking-their-loyal-playerbase

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46185/extremely-disappointed-in-the-way-some-arenanet-writers-think-about-their-playerbase

Rufo.3716 · July 5, 2018

If somebody were to say something not so nice about a dev on this forum they would get their comment deleted and get points taken away. What she has posted on her public account with ANet's name associated with it, is totally unacceptable. It's not just recent comments but past posts as well.

What really upsets me is that Anet isn't even saying a word about this. To me not addressing this is essentially saying they condone such behavior.

Vieux P.1238 · July 5, 2018

@Leo G.4501 said:
@castlemanic.3198 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:Where are these quantitative facts? I have never heard that female game developers get more hate
because
they are female. If it's true that female game developers get more hate, maybe it's because the products and changes they push aren't desired? That isn't sexism, that's consumerism.

Besides observable history?

https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/21/12241890/women-game-development

https://kotaku.com/d-d-wouldn-t-be-what-it-is-today-without-these-women-1796426183

http://theconversation.com/more-women-are-becoming-game-developers-but-theres-a-long-way-to-go-79843

https://mashable.com/2018/01/09/video-game-diversity/#JEcOTwVIjOqM

https://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-more-women-into-game-development-1783683864

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/games-industry-more-women-working-but-gender-bias-remains-issue/8741744

http://www.unite-it.eu/profiles/blogs/why-are-so-few-women-developing-video-games

https://www.polygon.com/2016/9/12/12891628/videogame-industry-salary-survey

Just a couple of articles for you that cover not only harassment from gamers but also stuff women deal with from their colleagues. And this is a quick google search.

None of that is hate. Having unequal representation isn't harassment. Not only that, you cite the same resource many times which is going to have a bias (especially kotaku).

Lastly, none of that is quantitative.

I bet you a large sum of money, if the shoe were on the other foot, and a male game developer were telling a female commentor to go back in the kitchen and make a sandwich or something, this wouldn't be the stance you'd take.
https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/star-wars-kelly-marie-tran-leaves-social-media-harassment-1202830892/
). So the truth works against you.

I'm actually well versed in the topic of star wars and the recent backlash. You do realize Rian J received far more hate and criticism than the actress if Rose. The only thruth is, when you take a beloved franchise and drag it through the mud of identity politics, your going to have a mud covered franchise that people don't like any more.

Besides, 'go make a sandwhich' is not on the same level of calling someone sexist for a difference in opinion. There isn't a good comparison because, again, men in general get less hate in the industry. You're free to ignore the very observable habits of women getting chased off of media platforms for death threats because they merely exist in the industry.

It's only not comparable because woman feel it's not, not because it is logically or quantifiably not comparable.

I'm going to say it right now: female game developers do not get more online hate, they just complain about it more. In fact, practically all the criticism laid on thick about this game, the ones expected to shoulder the responsibility for those failings are men. Even if women played a part in the teams that fail us, it's generally expected to be the man's fault. That's just how things go and its the other side of sexism that men have to deal with but usually never nag women about. Whenever a bad thing happens, it's a man's fault. Whenever backlash happens, it's not the woman's fault and you should empathize with her. Whenever something needs to be fixed, it's a man's problem to do the work. Whenever success is achieved and a woman is there, the woman will take an equal share of the credit even though she didn't put in an equal share of the work.
All of those observations, I assure you, any man will attest to but won't ever whine about.

As a man myself, let me make it clear that you are presenting a series of factually incorrect statements, especially with regards to the gaming industry.

Then prove it. You can say it's not true in the gaming industry, but how about in every other industry? How about the equality of work and published studies by men vs women in nursing? Or education? The facts are, men do go the extra mile but we will say women are still equally as hard working.

This isn't a shot at women because I know there are women out there that work their bum off. This is a jab at identity politicians who think rounding up statistics by gender mean anything for the individual. The only thing your article links tell me is there are women willing to complain about anything and weak willed men out there that just take their word for it.

Are you really going to tell me that she took credit for somebody else's work? There's a historical precedent for men to take sole credit of the work of women (which continues to this day) so your argument falls flat there.

I didn't say that. That is in context of everything. When there is a problem, it's the man's fault but when victory is abound, there will be women who share in the spoils.

Leo G.4501, You got valid points. But are you really going to excuse her behavior for real? Cuz her attacks was unwarranted & had no merits.It's clear in this case she's the bully.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493 · July 5, 2018

@"saerni.2584" said:
It isn’t that the person making the statement looks a certain way. It’s that a statement about someone’s own lived experience is valuable. I’m saying, “someone is speaking about their own life and how they experienced it and we (collectively) should carefully consider what they have to say.
They know their own life. Asssuming I know their own life better than them would be presumptuous.

Don't be coy. The way to determine whether or not someone's lived experience is valuable is by the way they look. Besides, "lived experiences" is meaningless if it can be twisted to mean anything. If someone takes offense to me saying that they're well spoken, that is a sign there is something wrong with that individual. I've seen many people ruin their life when they clearly had alternatives, so I take absolutely no stock in the concept that a person is going to know their own life better than somebody else can. Being alive doesn't give you omniscience about yourself.

Zoop.1360 · July 5, 2018

@"Manasa Devi.7958" said:Now I've seen it all.
Found on reddit, a link to her tweet about the passing of TotalBiscuit.
https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048

Wow. This is just inexcusable. You don't gloat about someone's death like this.

Then again, Anet won't do shit. Doing anything against a psycho like this will just bring down hell upon their company. No wonder they haven't said a word about the controversy.

OrbitalButt.5708 · July 5, 2018

@Vieux P.1238 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@castlemanic.3198 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:Where are these quantitative facts? I have never heard that female game developers get more hate
because
they are female. If it's true that female game developers get more hate, maybe it's because the products and changes they push aren't desired? That isn't sexism, that's consumerism.

Besides observable history?

https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/21/12241890/women-game-development

https://kotaku.com/d-d-wouldn-t-be-what-it-is-today-without-these-women-1796426183

http://theconversation.com/more-women-are-becoming-game-developers-but-theres-a-long-way-to-go-79843

https://mashable.com/2018/01/09/video-game-diversity/#JEcOTwVIjOqM

https://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-more-women-into-game-development-1783683864

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/games-industry-more-women-working-but-gender-bias-remains-issue/8741744

http://www.unite-it.eu/profiles/blogs/why-are-so-few-women-developing-video-games

https://www.polygon.com/2016/9/12/12891628/videogame-industry-salary-survey

Just a couple of articles for you that cover not only harassment from gamers but also stuff women deal with from their colleagues. And this is a quick google search.

None of that is hate. Having unequal representation isn't harassment. Not only that, you cite the same resource many times which is going to have a bias (especially kotaku).

Lastly, none of that is quantitative.

I bet you a large sum of money, if the shoe were on the other foot, and a male game developer were telling a female commentor to go back in the kitchen and make a sandwich or something, this wouldn't be the stance you'd take.
https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/star-wars-kelly-marie-tran-leaves-social-media-harassment-1202830892/
). So the truth works against you.

I'm actually well versed in the topic of star wars and the recent backlash. You do realize Rian J received far more hate and criticism than the actress if Rose. The only thruth is, when you take a beloved franchise and drag it through the mud of identity politics, your going to have a mud covered franchise that people don't like any more.

Besides, 'go make a sandwhich' is not on the same level of calling someone sexist for a difference in opinion. There isn't a good comparison because, again, men in general get less hate in the industry. You're free to ignore the very observable habits of women getting chased off of media platforms for death threats because they merely exist in the industry.

It's only not comparable because woman feel it's not, not because it is logically or quantifiably not comparable.

I'm going to say it right now: female game developers do not get more online hate, they just complain about it more. In fact, practically all the criticism laid on thick about this game, the ones expected to shoulder the responsibility for those failings are men. Even if women played a part in the teams that fail us, it's generally expected to be the man's fault. That's just how things go and its the other side of sexism that men have to deal with but usually never nag women about. Whenever a bad thing happens, it's a man's fault. Whenever backlash happens, it's not the woman's fault and you should empathize with her. Whenever something needs to be fixed, it's a man's problem to do the work. Whenever success is achieved and a woman is there, the woman will take an equal share of the credit even though she didn't put in an equal share of the work.
All of those observations, I assure you, any man will attest to but won't ever whine about.

As a man myself, let me make it clear that you are presenting a series of factually incorrect statements, especially with regards to the gaming industry.

Then prove it. You can say it's not true in the gaming industry, but how about in every other industry? How about the equality of work and published studies by men vs women in nursing? Or education? The facts are, men do go the extra mile but we will say women are still equally as hard working.

This isn't a shot at women because I know there are women out there that work their bum off. This is a jab at identity politicians who think rounding up statistics by gender mean anything for the individual. The only thing your article links tell me is there are women willing to complain about anything and weak willed men out there that just take their word for it.

Are you really going to tell me that she took credit for somebody else's work? There's a historical precedent for men to take sole credit of the work of women (which continues to this day) so your argument falls flat there.

I didn't say that. That is in context of everything. When there is a problem, it's the man's fault but when victory is abound, there will be women who share in the spoils.

Leo G.4501, You got valid points. But are you really going to excuse her behavior for real? Cuz her attacks was unwarranted & had no merits.It's clear in this case she's the bully.

Dude, Leo has been steadfastly condemning her behavior since the very first thread, I think you might be confused

Tolmos.8395 · July 5, 2018

Le wild article on the topic has appeared:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2-lurches-to-yet-another-pr-nightmare

At this point my mind is just boggled that Anet didn't come out ASAP and just say "Sorry guys, she said something crappy. We gave the affected parties some neat in game trinkets and told her knock it off. Social Media policy has been updated appropriately. Game on!" and that would be that. The silence seems to be causing them more problems than anything else 0_o

castlemanic.3198 · July 5, 2018

Ho boy, here we go.

@"Leo G.4501" said:None of that is hate. Having unequal representation isn't harassment. Not only that, you cite the same resource many times which is going to have a bias (especially kotaku).

Except there are reasons cited which include harassment, but whatever

I'm actually well versed in the topic of star wars and the recent backlash. You do realize Rian J received far more hate and criticism than the actress if Rose. The only thruth is, when you take a beloved franchise and drag it through the mud of identity politics, your going to have a mud covered franchise that people don't like any more.
It's only not comparable because woman feel it's not, not because it is logically or quantifiably not comparable.

It IS logically incomparable, as I've demonstrated, if you want to ignore that, feel free.

Then prove it. You can say it's not true in the gaming industry, but how about in every other industry? How about the equality of work and published studies by men vs women in nursing? Or education? The facts are, men do go the extra mile but we will say women are still equally as hard working.

This is a discussion about the gaming industry, I tried to focus it as much as possible on the gaming industry. There's a whole discussion to be had about the nature of gender roles and how they've forced stigmas upon people who diverge away from their 'decided upon by society' roles, which includes men who go into nursing. There's an extremely large and in depth debate to be had about how patriarchies have affected society and how it's ended up harming everyone, there isn't a single person who hasn't been negatively affected by the patriarchy but some like the massive benefits it grants them for staying within the confines of their gender roles.

This is not the place for such a debate.

This isn't a shot at women because I know there are women out there that work their bum off. This is a jab at identity politicians who think rounding up statistics by gender mean anything for the individual. The only thing your article links tell me is there are women willing to complain about anything and weak willed men out there that just take their word for it.

This single handedly convinced me continuing a conversation with you is warrantless, and is the reason why I've kept my responses short.

I didn't say that. That is in context of everything. When there is a problem, it's the man's fault but when victory is abound, there will be women who share in the spoils.

I never said you directly said that, the question was more of the rhetorical "how does this fit with what you've stated", my apologies for not making that clear.

With all that said, I'm done responding to you.

Feithlinn.9284 · July 5, 2018

@Ashen.2907 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@Dashingsteel.3410 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@Dashingsteel.3410 said:
@Feithlinn.9284 said:
@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we
definitely
don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.