Deadeye is broken OP

Azure The Heartless.3261 · July 26, 2018

@Solori.6025 said:welcome to the club people put mesmer in. The punch is in the corner.

I feel bad for the core Mesmers specifically, and the Chornomancers are fine, but mirage is still busted. Elusive mind carries hard.Save punch for me to have once dodges aren't free channels, free stunbreaks and free condi clears all at once.

/whine

Solori.6025 · July 26, 2018

@Legatus.3608 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Legatus.3608 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.

but DJ is a stealth attack and cannot be used if revealed.

I don't use rifle, but that -is- how it works right? It's a flipover skill and reveals you when you use it, but you must be in stealth to begin with.

If a thief three round bursts on you from stealth, he is revealed and cant set up for DJ immediately unless he burns his elite. and that takes a full second from Meld to DJ.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

is the description wrong or something?

hasted meld, dude.

Sounds like a lot of excuses and lots of opportunities to counterplay and interrupt...

Fact's are not excuses..

Excuses.

triggered?

Nope, just saying it how it’s, I’m not the one having trouble with easily avoidable highly telegraphed attacks, unlike some people.

Reading is hard isn't it....."Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either"

it's obvious at this point your using this to get carried, and you wonder why the player skill level is at an all time low. do you need a hint? kitten like this.

All these people complaining about a kitten build that isn't good in pvp or wvw at all, and the vast majority lying about how fights with DE play out.

Tell you what, why don't you link the build for me and I will walk you through the combat with said DE build. Because every single person on these forums thinks deadeye is the only elite spec in the game with 6 trait line slots and 12 utility slots, it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation. Link me the build you think is OP.

welcome to the club people put mesmer in. The punch is in the corner.

But in the case of mesmer the build was ACTUALLY good. The deadeye specs these people are talking about are trash builds that are generally only useful for trolling in bronze :(

I dunno, apparently it's being complained about all the way up plat ( though I highly doubt this). Anyway I am talking about the case of people not knowing how deadeye functions. Then they lump 4 extra utilites and 8 extra traits into one build and then come to the forums with wiki knowledge and complain.

Do you like grape punch or fruit punch.. I'm more partial to the grape

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
@Solori.6025 said:welcome to the club people put mesmer in. The punch is in the corner.

I feel bad for the core Mesmers specifically, and the Chornomancers are fine, but mirage is still busted. Elusive mind carries hard.Save punch for me to have once dodges aren't free channels, free stunbreaks and free condi clears all at once.

/whine

Sure, I'll be waiting for the moment dodges aren't free stealth and target immunities either/Bleu Cheese

Bazsi.2734 · July 26, 2018

@"Highlie.7641" said:Again it's pointless to talk to you.
i got 3 infractions for one post last time.

It would have been easier to just point out what I said that was incorrect/misleading... or just admit you read the first 2 sencentes and commented assuming what the rest of my post was. If you expect your criticism to be taken seriously, at least get the whole picture before you post/say anything.

This goes for everyone by the way, not just Highlie: surface level looks wont give you enough context, especially if its something more complicated, like balance in an MMO. I think this thread would like to achive some kind of change (even if most of it is just "waaaaaah deadeye damage waaaaah"), but what would that ideally be? Deleting other players in 2 seconds was always part of the game, you just had to spec accordingly. The only difference is that with PoF release we have a spec that CAN'T DO anything else. It's what this is for: blowing up unsuspecting/incapacitated targets. Even if you could get a-net to somehow tone down the oneshot potential of all other specs (not going to happen), its still unrealistic to expect them to tone down the burst potential of the "oneshot spec".

aDemoNnDisguisE.8576 · July 26, 2018

Humm... the OP sounds like a Mesmer Main in disguise...Only Mesmer needs mor nerfs.

StabbersTheThird.6053 · July 27, 2018

I'ma chime in real quick here. Probably get bombed because this is starting to read like a soap opera, but whatever.

Death's Judgement does less damage than Backstab (CRAZY!).A high hitting Death's Judgement that uses 5 Malice (or oh my jesus, 7?) requires a ton of initiative. Initiative does not regenerate fast. 1 pip, 1 second.A high hitting Death's Judgement necessitates Deadly Art and Critical Strikes (do the math you crazy people, Trickery does less overall).The unblockable Death's Judgement is not new to Thief. Basilisk Venom makes Backstab unblockable.Death's Judgement has an insane telegraph, long cast time, and marks where the Thief is.Any form of CC un-kneels Thief. That's a MASSIVE dps loss.Weakness and Protection and Aegis do exist.Teleports to the self-revealed Thief exist.A "DE" (Thief.) using Revealed=+200 power is not using 50%hp=root.If a Thief is using Shadow Meld, there is a 5 second use between charges and a 30 second charge cooldown.If a Thief is using Shadow Meld, they no longer have a stun.If a Thief uses Rifle 2 and not Rifle 3, they suffer massive dps loss.

Anyway, there ya go. Flame away people.

Rufo.3716 · July 27, 2018

DJ isn't the only problem. Let's not forget about the endless stealth and the ability to port all over the battlefield. I'd take both Scourge and Mesmer OP meta over the crap thief is doing any day.

Curennos.9307 · July 27, 2018

@Rufo.3716 said:DJ isn't the only problem. Let's not forget about the endless stealth and the ability to port all over the battlefield. I'd take both Scourge and Mesmer OP meta over the crap thief is doing any day.

Sounds like you're exaggerating juuuuust a tad.

Bazsi.2734 · July 27, 2018

@Rufo.3716 said:DJ isn't the only problem. Let's not forget about the endless stealth and the ability to port all over the battlefield. I'd take both Scourge and Mesmer OP meta over the crap thief is doing any day.

And thats how I win all my conquest matches ever. The trick is never to leave stealth, and port around, BUT REALLY FAST. GOTTA GO FAST.

Frostmane.9734 · July 27, 2018

Chiming in late, but...

I'm fine with the damage and I'm pretty okay with the teleports. What puts it over the edge is the popping in an out of stealth to take shots and then disappearing, rinse, repeat.

In all classes, all game modes, all skills they need to change stealth so you are "self revealed" (read: unable to stealth) for a set duration if you willing came out of it to attack.

BlaqueFyre.5678 · July 27, 2018

@"Frostmane.9734" said:Chiming in late, but...
I'm fine with the damage and I'm pretty okay with the teleports. What puts it over the edge is the popping in an out of stealth to take shots and then disappearing, rinse, repeat.
In all classes, all game modes, all skills they need to change stealth so you are "self revealed" (read: unable to stealth) for a set duration if you willing came out of it to attack.

All damaging skills already do that......

Crab Fear.1624 · July 27, 2018

nerf thieftake all toolslet them keep shortbow 5

Koto.1824 · July 27, 2018

dEaDeYe BrOkEn aNeT pLs FiX

Kageseigi.2150 · July 27, 2018

@Crab Fear.1624 said:nerf thieftake all toolslet them keep shortbow 5

But Thief will still be OP with all that mobility!!!

yLoon.5289 · July 27, 2018

Guys, stop mocking him. Clearly, he is new to PvP. Let me offer you some advice vs a Teef.

1) Be keen on the minimap when you are wandering alone, communicate with the team to speculate teef's location is vital.2) Just abuse lost of sights, hide behind something, trees, statue, rocks, pet, cornering, etc. etc, this will totally nullify their burst range attack.3) PP teef is kinda useless in a team fight, as PP3's damage will be weak (spreading with teammates in a group fight) that is if you are moving tactically.

Teef really just melt instantly in melee fights, and they can't defend a point either. Hence it is extremely easy to anticipate where they will appear next. Their tactic either is to hunt careless wandering players, flipping bases, stealing your Creature, or +1 in a team fight. Most veteran Pvper will laugh when there is a Teef in the opposite team.

Well, once in a full blue moon I do stumble upon exceptional great Teef players, but that is extremely rare. An experience Teef is the one that knows when to retreat and will only fight if the situation benefits them and the team. As I always said, OP class do not exist, only OP players.

Fat Disgrace.4275 · July 27, 2018

@Airdive.2613 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Airdive.2613 said:A bit more on topic.There are abilities in GW 2 whose description claim they "destroy projectiles".
The ones I can think of are:
guardian sanctuary;
guardian sword 3;
dragonhunter longbow 3;
necromancer corrosive poison cloud;
druid staff 5;
mesmer focus 5 (untraited).
Could the community check if these (and more) skills can counter death's judgment?Some skills look like they could also destroy projectiles (thief smoke screen, ranger axe 5, mesmer focus 4 and 5 when traited) but differ in description.

They do

not

work against any unblockable attacks.

They do. Guardian's sanctuary only cannot block beam attacks, while physically destroing any projectile. Might be the same with spellbreaker's elite.

I can pop baslisk venom and go thru warrior elite bubble with dancing dagger. Not tried sanctuary. Also choking gas goes thru bubble too

Airdive.2613 · July 27, 2018

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Airdive.2613 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Airdive.2613 said:A bit more on topic.There are abilities in GW 2 whose description claim they "destroy projectiles".
The ones I can think of are:
guardian sanctuary;
guardian sword 3;
dragonhunter longbow 3;
necromancer corrosive poison cloud;
druid staff 5;
mesmer focus 5 (untraited).
Could the community check if these (and more) skills can counter death's judgment?Some skills look like they could also destroy projectiles (thief smoke screen, ranger axe 5, mesmer focus 4 and 5 when traited) but differ in description.

They do

not

work against any unblockable attacks.

They do. Guardian's sanctuary only cannot block beam attacks, while physically destroing any projectile. Might be the same with spellbreaker's elite.

I can pop baslisk venom and go thru warrior elite bubble with dancing dagger. Not tried sanctuary. Also choking gas goes thru bubble too

Yes, sorry for the misinformation. Turns out those skills haven't been blocking the unblockable for years now.

Legatus.3608 · July 27, 2018

@Rufo.3716 said:DJ isn't the only problem. Let's not forget about the endless stealth and the ability to port all over the battlefield. I'd take both Scourge and Mesmer OP meta over the crap thief is doing any day.

De has enough room to fit one teleport on a 45s cooldown and without stealth and shadowstep it would just be free kills

It's still free kills even with stealth and shadowstep, it just requires you to know how to beat it while those exist

Stealth and teleport actually contributes nothing to the fight on it's own, and are the only defenses thief even has. Compare to mesmer and ranger where they actually have some block and invuln, on top of a larger hp pool, and can still stealth and move around quite a bit.

Btw fun fact I just got hit by worldly impact for the first time yesterday, I checked and it did 8k. In no way did I feel like it was op and neither is deadeye (except for the 60k worldly impact thing which is obviously a bug)

babazhook.6805 · July 27, 2018

@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@SoulSin.5682 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

Don't be ridiculous.

this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.

It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...

You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.

Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necrosOutrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.

Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either

Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.

Legatus.3608 · July 27, 2018

@babazhook.6805 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@SoulSin.5682 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

Don't be ridiculous.

this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.

It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...

You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.

Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necrosOutrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.

Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either

Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.

Dodging twice won't nullify it sadly, the de will just restealth and fire another. This is why I think dodging a dj should remove the malice stacks.

Bazsi.2734 · July 27, 2018

@Legatus.3608 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@SoulSin.5682 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

Don't be ridiculous.

this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.

It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...

You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.

Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necrosOutrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.

Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either

Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.

Dodging twice won't nullify it sadly, the de will just restealth and fire another. This is why I think dodging a dj should remove the malice stacks.

Bad idea. Aside from this being too complicated to implement(only lose malice when the enemy dodged it, but not when its out of range, blind etc.), it was earlier established in this thread that DJ only hits too hard with non-viable trollbuilds. Doesn't sound like something we should take into consideration when thinking about balance. If a build can't get on the leaderboard no matter how well it's played, I just don't care to nerf it. Let the one trick pony be.Also I'm pretty sure they wouln't ever try to create a code to check WHY a skill missed, but if the devs felt enough pressure they would just turn malice into adrenaline 2.0. And you'd lose stacks upon casting a malicious attack, regardless of it hitting anything or not. So if you don't want that, dont advocate for losing malice on enemy dodge.

Not to mention, about 30% of my DJ-s miss because of bugs. That would also take malice away. I can setswap my dagger/pistol to rifle the instant my enemy(warrior) puts up shieldblock, and melee a DJ into his fat face and not hit because "out of range". Still getting the 3 seconds of revealed, because that part of the code isnt bugged... which is always nice, but losing all malice on top of these would just make it perfect though.

Malice gets consumed upon hitting your marked target, or by using Mercy. You don't want to change that, trust me.

Legatus.3608 · July 27, 2018

@Bazsi.2734 said:
@Legatus.3608 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
@Highlie.7641 said:
@SoulSin.5682 said:
@Highlie.7641 said: