Deadeye is broken OP

[Legatus.3608]

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

You say its applying too much pressure, but it isn't applying any at all. You press dodge once on the buffed dj -> win game. It's not an exaggeration, you dodge one ability and win the game. Or reflect or los for the same result. Where is the pressure coming from? The pressure that requires you to be semi-conscious while you play?

[bq pd.2148]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

You say its applying too much pressure, but it isn't applying any at all. You press dodge once on the buffed dj -> win game. It's not an exaggeration, you dodge one ability and win the game. Or reflect or los for the same result. Where is the pressure coming from? The pressure that requires you to be semi-conscious while you play?

you do know that since the rework quite a while ago, DJ is a stealth attack, 1/2s cast instead of 3/4s and is unblockable, right? this also means you can not reflect it. but i still see daily a ton of people trying to reflect it, just to realize they cant. go ahead try it.as a deadeye i really like that you defend it, but not with false information :3

[Legatus.3608]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

You say its applying too much pressure, but it isn't applying any at all. You press dodge once on the buffed dj -> win game. It's not an exaggeration, you dodge one ability and win the game. Or reflect or los for the same result. Where is the pressure coming from? The pressure that requires you to be semi-conscious while you play?

you do know that since the rework quite a while ago, DJ is a stealth attack, 1/2s cast instead of 3/4s and is

unblockable

, right? this also means

you can not reflect it

. but i still see daily a ton of people trying to reflect it, just to realize they cant. go ahead try it.as a deadeye i really like that you defend it, but not with false information :3

I personally don't feel like I should have to defend a troll build that just loses games for the team using it.

But, I did not know that unblockable also breaks reflect :o

[Aeolus.3615]

Awereness actually makes deadeye a bit more useless, usually they are stationed sniping capture points.

[bq pd.2148]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

You say its applying too much pressure, but it isn't applying any at all. You press dodge once on the buffed dj -> win game. It's not an exaggeration, you dodge one ability and win the game. Or reflect or los for the same result. Where is the pressure coming from? The pressure that requires you to be semi-conscious while you play?

you do know that since the rework quite a while ago, DJ is a stealth attack, 1/2s cast instead of 3/4s and is

unblockable

, right? this also means

you can not reflect it

. but i still see daily a ton of people trying to reflect it, just to realize they cant. go ahead try it.as a deadeye i really like that you defend it, but not with false information :3

I personally don't feel like I should have to defend a troll build that just loses games for the team using it.

But, I did not know that unblockable also breaks reflect :o

it does, thats the reason why deaths judgement is unblockable. the former stealth shot was unblockable for the very same reason. because there are builds that can have a way too high uptime on projectile hate.

also i dont play it in spvp, but many changes carry over to WvW altho the fights in any scale there are of a complete different nature and would need different balance then spvp, so i still care for complains about it in spvp.

[Airdive.2613]

@"Legatus.3608" said:But, I did not know that unblockable also breaks reflect :o

Yup. My personal guess is that most "unblockable" projectiles have something to do with technical complications of reflection: mesmer's greatsword 2 (creates a clone on hit), engineer's pistol 5 (is a targeted AoE, but technically a projectile). But yeah, this is how unblockable projectiles work.At least projectiles can still be destroyed by several guardian skills.

[babazhook.6805]

On "balance".

ANET decided on release that certain professions , prior to taking any traits , weapons or utilities , would come out of the gate with a Health Point advantage. This was not a nominal amount. In the case of Warrior Vs Thief as example it some 8000+ points from base. In other words if we are going to allow for "1 shot kills" that thief has to do 8000 more damage in a single attack. If this same thief then faces another thief or an elementalist , then there an extraordinary excess of damage. Calling for this damage to be capped or limited so that individuals can not die to a single attack means the Maximum damage mustered by a thief has to be on the order of 10000 damage. Assuming no other changes this means Zerker warrior could one shot the thief (they have a multitude of attacks that can do this damage) but Zerker thief could never one shot the warrior (they would at most take off 50 percent of health). This is Zerker VS Zerker. Once said warrior tanks up that thief damage under said scenario might as well be nothing.

This is hardly balance. No discussion of balance focused on the amount of damage that can be acheived in a singular hit (Ignoring for the moment that the SETUP for that singular hit in Thief requires other attacks to build malice) , can ignore the fact that there an inherent health pool and armor disadvantage among classes. ANET has addressed this partially by allowing the thief means by which they can avoid that hit in the first place (Dodges/stealth) but when thief applies this in game we get a new thread started here "Stealth is OP and Thief can spam dodge!".

[SoulSin.5682]

@Highlie.7641 said:Arena net doesn't believe in counter play anymore. which is one of the main reasons this game is god awful compared to vanilla.

Horribly designed mechanics are there forte, This game is filled with them nowadays. Things like EM (mesmer) bounding dodger, Unblockable DJ, stealth dodge ect ect all lack counterplay and should not exist. The sad part is even if they realize these traits / skills ect are toxic design they can't fix them, the player base would kitten a brick.

This is why a few of us want gw3. we have realized there is no hope of them fixing this skill less kitten show. It is what it is.

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I'm fine with death's judgement being blockable as long as EM and scourge also get the nerf bat.

[Airdive.2613]

To summarize: ANet is seemingly trying to make defense require about as much skill as offense.Just going tanky doesn't mean your personal skill can be neglected, not in GW 2. If you are bad at defense and you find yourself dying to an average to well executed enemy offense - you got outplayed, keep practicing.When you choose a bunker role, you must expect being outnumbered (by design). You must expect a surprise shot in the back every second when fighting. Or else, if thief is so appealing, maybe you're better off playing as thief.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:I'm fine with death's judgement being blockable as long as EM and scourge also get the nerf bat.

Thats really not a good idea. Going through with this change would eliminate rifle deadeye from the higher tiers, but wouldn't make a difference on lower ones. Way to hurt build diversity and achive nothing else.

Right now DJ is the only unblockable attack a rifle deadeye has, and its only a strong attack after the DE hits with 3+ blockable ones. So if you have blocks/reflects with you, its already an asset against the snipers, you can nullify the opening burst or even send it back to their face. But you actually have to think about when to block and when to dodge. If all DE attacks are the same, you can just mindlessly put up your block/reflect and be safe for its duration. It dumbs the gameplay down.

[Metzie.9083]

The contribution or the creator cannot really be taken seriously, at least one should not. Because he doesn't seem to have the slightest idea - right?

Currently, the "deadeye" has actually been improved in the right direction! Why? The explanation is found when one actually recognizes the definition of the "deadeye" as such, respectively his task by definition. (Re-)think about it! Another keyword: #ambush

The "deadeye" is currently finding a unique selling point and that is a good thing! It may be possible to optimize small things. But fundamental changes would be anything but logical!

General: People play the class, not only just 2 hours and learn more about its playing style! Then keep talking or start an unnecessary discussion like this one!

Thus: Deadeye is broken op = "idiocy"!

[Babylonn.5027]

okay so also malicious backstab been found doing broken high dmg

[Phantom.6205]

Deadeye is a walking 5 pts cash register. Your problem is you don't understand how to counter it. Stop griefing and start learning.

[Revilrad.1962]

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:Arena net doesn't believe in counter play anymore. which is one of the main reasons this game is god awful compared to vanilla.

Horribly designed mechanics are there forte, This game is filled with them nowadays. Things like EM (mesmer) bounding dodger, Unblockable DJ, stealth dodge ect ect all lack counterplay and should not exist. The sad part is even if they realize these traits / skills ect are toxic design they can't fix them, the player base would kitten a brick.

This is why a few of us want gw3. we have realized there is no hope of them fixing this skill less kitten show. It is what it is.

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

But that is actually the core of the problem. You are all trying to play GW2 as if it is CS or CoD. But Gw2 is overwatch. It is a TeamVTeam PvP and should be approached as rock/paper/scissor approach. That is also why we do not have any 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or so.If you seriously need 100% balance then you need to eliminate Professions out of PvP, give everyone same skills and access to same weapons/skills.Anet should embrace the concept of unbalanced, counter-play and team based Competitive Play and stop trying to force their no Holy trinity Philosophy into PvP by trying to make all classes viable against all classes. You just cant do that.Anet would like the GW2 to be a Professional eSport but too many professions with too many builds makes it impossible to reach satisfactory balance levels.They are not balancing, they are shifting the meta every now and then so it stays viable but in every phase some people feel frustrated. This gets more obvious If the combat is of small scale becasue differences in Balance becomes very clear in 1v1 situations.

I would instead suggest big matches like 10v10 with where smaller roaming groups. Where 1v1s rarely happen. And a Teammate who is a counter against your counter is likely to be around in big teams and save you if he knows what he is doing.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Highlie.7641 said:

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

Don't be ridiculous.

this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.

It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...

[Sampson.2403]

I have a question about unblockable attacks. If a guardian has aegis up and i mesmer GS sword 2 (mirror blade unblockable) at them, the mirror blade will hit and create the clone, right? Will the aegis buff still be up after this or does it get cleared because it failed to block the attack?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Highlie.7641 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:

And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?

Don't be ridiculous.

this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.

It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...

You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.

Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necrosOutrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.

Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either

Some people must not be as good as they think they are, to not be able to use the plethora of counterplay options available to negate a skill with multiple extremely obvious tells.

Every map and majority of the points in PvP have a plethora of LoS spots, idk what game you are playing but that’s a farce to say their is very few LoS areas on every map.

Let’s see here 1200 Range Blinds: Smoldering Arrow, Lightning Surge, Signet Of Air, Signet Of Shadows, Signet Of Spite just to name a few, and let’s not forget all the 900 Range Blinds or chaining gap closers into Blinds.

Also you can close the gap while using appropriate defensive skills/positioning to blind, cc and damage the DE while they are in their Revealed animation.

Any class can Body Block it’s called teammates, and you left out a few classes that can body block on their own, Thie, Revenant, Ranger, Engi, on top of the Necro and Mesmer.

And yes almost all classes can out range quite easily, since the Tells Of DJ are so obvious and tell the direction it’s coming from and you see how far away the thief is, and almost every class has skills that allow them to disengage / put distance between the Thief, since DE loses most of Thief Mobility, or is DE runnin 8 Utilities to have all the teleports and Damage increases and Stealth Application.

This comes down to player skill and those who lack basic gameplay knowledge and skill.

Again their are a plethora of options available to counter DE.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Highlie.7641 said:It's far more likely you just want to be carried by poorly though out mechanics.

Not really since I don’t even play DE or Let alone Thief all that much..... my class doesn’t even have Stealth access on it’s own.....

[SnowHawk.3615]

waaaahhhhhhhh mommy i dont like something pls nerf it :C

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@"Babylonn.5027" said:Deadeye is broken OP. No spec should be allowed to have 30k burst in 2 seconds, stealth, teleports and unblockable 20k hitting 1 shot skill. This class is most broken thing in PvP and needs seriously toned down. I guess that everyone who have faced this boosted class, will agree that Deadeye is most broken OP thing atm and needs nerfed ASAP.Guy called "Fat Boi Thief" is shameless abusing this build and he 1 shotted me as FB, i reported him after match but hes still at ranked..

NERF DEADEYE, ITS GAME BREAKING OVERPOWERED ATM!!!

30k in 2sec?Vid proof or never happened.

[SnowHawk.3615]

@Highlie.7641 said:

@"SnowHawk.3615" said:waaaahhhhhhhh mommy i dont like something pls nerf it :C

"The sad part is even if they realize these traits / skills ect are toxic design they can't fix them, the player base would kitten a brick."

Well, they made elementalist staff useless in WvW without fixing the lack of synergy with other traits and ignored them completely. Organized guilds aren't using them at all anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same to all long range weapons on classes that are squishy.

[Airdive.2613]

@Sampson.2403 said:I have a question about unblockable attacks. If a guardian has aegis up and i mesmer GS sword 2 (mirror blade unblockable) at them, the mirror blade will hit and create the clone, right? Will the aegis buff still be up after this or does it get cleared because it failed to block the attack?

Can't confirm in the game right now, but most likely your aegis is unaffected. Then the next thing the clone does is probably shoot you with a beam, thus removing your aegis anyway with a 1-damage ranged attack.

[Airdive.2613]

@Highlie.7641 said:

Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.

Did you know you can dodge roll twice in a row? It's super effective.

[Airdive.2613]

@Highlie.7641 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:

Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.

Did you know you can dodge roll twice in a row? It's super effective.

Did you know that your window to double dodge does not exist, (your getting hit with DJ as your first evade ends) try again.

Nope, they can be chained almost perfectly if you keep mashing the button.