So many balance patches, but HAMMER remains as a cosmetic item

[otto.5684]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

No guardian in group PvE runs hammer. You are like 2 years late to the meta. It is only used exclusively in sPvP. Not every weapon is good in every game mode, but if it is not used in owPvE or group PvE, it may as well not exist. Mind you, I primarily sPvP.

[Sojourner.4621]

@otto.5684 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

No guardian in group PvE runs hammer. You are like 2 years late to the meta. It is only used exclusively in sPvP. Not every weapon is good in every game mode, but if it is not used in owPvE or group PvE, it may as well not exist. Mind you, I primarily sPvP.

I... didn't state pve in my post anywhere? I was implicating Guardian hammer in to the same "Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode." Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it in the same sentence with Warrior and WvW... it is used heavily in sPvP and fairly regularly in WvW for guard.

[Sojourner.4621]

Please delete

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

[Airdive.2613]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

Sorry, but no. If you want to play (as it is my case) PVE, you have to do it as PVE is and as PVE demands. ANY weapon brings more dps and utility than hammer for almost every class in PVE.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@otto.5684 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

I 100% agree with you. Hammer is one of the poorest weapons in the game.

I dunno, I think Longbow might want to put a word in edge-wise.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Oh for PvE. I was about to say WvW/Spvp hammer isn't useless.

Hammer does have CC functions so improving break bar potential is possible (if that's even meaningful...). Or y'know. They could stop designing damage sponge enemies so DPS isn't the only desirable thing. Maybe make an encounter that isn't scripted, but with more reactive ai?

D:

[Sonoroho.5093]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

I 100% agree with you. Hammer is one of the poorest weapons in the game.

I dunno, I think Longbow might want to put a word in edge-wise.

My Longbow Warrior begs to differ.

[ugrakarma.9416]

being a warrior with a giant hammer with high dps, was my favorite role in other games.

[ugrakarma.9416]

the fans of single large weapons are abandoned in this game.

[Airdive.2613]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

Sorry, but no. If you want to play (as it is my case) PVE, you have to do it as PVE is and as PVE demands. ANY weapon brings more dps and utility than hammer for almost every class in PVE.

Nothing to be sorry about.PvE demands are superficial (player-imposed), and while out of the meta, hammers provide you with hard control (guardian), blast finishers and area control (warrior), ranged options (revenant), evade frames (scrapper) that would be harder to get using any other weapon, so they actually have their own role.

[otto.5684]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

Sorry, but no. If you want to play (as it is my case) PVE, you have to do it as PVE is and as PVE demands. ANY weapon brings more dps and utility than hammer for almost every class in PVE.

Nothing to be sorry about.PvE demands are superficial (player-imposed), and while out of the meta, hammers provide you with hard control (guardian), blast finishers and area control (warrior), ranged options (revenant), evade frames (scrapper) that would be harder to get using any other weapon, so they actually have their own role.

For guardian, If you use hammer instead of GS in any PvE context, beside for role playing, you are doing something seriously wrong. Same for using hammer or Scrapper in PvE.

None of the above have any role in PvE beside role playing, what so ever.

[Airdive.2613]

@otto.5684 said:For guardian, If you use hammer instead of GS in any PvE context, beside for role playing, you are doing something seriously wrong. Same for using hammer or Scrapper in PvE.

None of the above have any role in PvE beside role playing, what so ever.

Still, there's nothing stopping you from doing every piece of content with your trusty hammer. It might not be optimal in terms of oh-so precious DPS, but the restriction is player-imposed.

[otto.5684]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@otto.5684 said:For guardian, If you use hammer instead of GS in any PvE context, beside for role playing, you are doing something seriously wrong. Same for using hammer or Scrapper in PvE.

None of the above have any role in PvE beside role playing, what so ever.

Still, there's nothing stopping you from doing every piece of content with your trusty hammer. It might not be optimal in terms of oh-so precious DPS, but the restriction is player-imposed.

There is nothing that prevents you from using celestial gear either, but there is a reason no one does. This idea of knowingly handicapping yourself to look cool, is silly at best.

Note, I can play owpve in naked gear and stick weapons and no one cares. This is NOT how any balance is determined.

[Pirindolo.9427]

Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

[Sojourner.4621]

@"Pirindolo.9427" said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

My static fractal group often runs a hammer guard... is it the fastest and most efficient? No... we take about 45-60 minutes for a full set of t4s (depending on what they are and if CMs are involved). They could be done faster on the most optimum 3 DPS + Banner + Chrono group, but we take a "balanced" approach and we have fun doing it... despite the handicap, it's very minor because the runs are "comfortable" in that having 100% party prot uptime and decent CC on a hammer guard makes the runs not so... squishy. We don't find flying by the seat of our pants and hoping that we don't have a minor mistake cascade in to failure because everyone is a tissue-paper mess terribly fun or engaging. We'll run that sometimes when we're short on time, but mostly we'd rather enjoy playing the game, take our time and joke around without feeling overly pressured.

Also hammer has boatloads of hard CC... compared to the majority of other weapons you can use, most of them DON'T stack up... that's why they're so popular in WvW/PvP where CC isn't just important, it's everything.

[Khisanth.2948]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Oh for PvE. I was about to say WvW/Spvp hammer isn't useless.

Hammer does have CC functions so improving break bar potential is possible (if that's even meaningful...). Or y'know. They could stop designing damage sponge enemies so DPS isn't the only desirable thing. Maybe make an encounter that isn't scripted, but with more reactive ai?

D:

It's not just damage sponges. It's also the oneshotty types too. DPS is more important for those than the HP sponges. They've also started slapping breakbars on more stuff. Sometimes those bars are permanently unbreakable rendering all the CCs on hammer completely useless.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Hammer's pretty pow-pow on the warrioreven use it in pvp from time to time

[Lambros Augustus.6594]

Would be nice to use hammer with more fluidity and especially some of the off hand weapons especially focus, got minstrel and ipos and i need more from those weps. PVE in general would be great to see better scaling to make it feel like your toon defeated two dragons, a god, and joko without failing to bursts from lower tier mobs.

[Klowdy.3126]

@Alga.6498 said:I love hammers, I use hammer for all the professions who are able to equip it!I hope a new profession will learn how to use the Hammer in our 3rd expansion, :)

I'm gonna go with ranger as the obvious one to get hammer next, or mesmer as a random pick, but still feasible.

@otto.5684 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

Sorry, but no. If you want to play (as it is my case) PVE, you have to do it as PVE is and as PVE demands. ANY weapon brings more dps and utility than hammer for almost every class in PVE.

Nothing to be sorry about.PvE demands are superficial (player-imposed), and while out of the meta, hammers provide you with hard control (guardian), blast finishers and area control (warrior), ranged options (revenant), evade frames (scrapper) that would be harder to get using any other weapon, so they actually have their own role.

For guardian, If you use hammer instead of GS in any PvE context, beside for role playing, you are doing something seriously wrong. Same for using hammer or Scrapper in PvE.

None of the above have any role in PvE beside role playing, what so ever.

People love when I play hammer power/support firebrand in fractals. Constant defensive support, good heals, decent damage. Just because it isn't meta, and you don't like it, doesn't mean useless.

[Rysdude.3824]

I’d like Scrapper’s hammer to be as fluid as Warrior’s greatsword

[Etheri.5406]

Hammer rev and warrior are meta in WvW. Currently hammer guardian is kinda wonkey in WvW. Scrapper is presumably also meta in WvW; altho we're moving away from a condi-heavy meta and it might drop it's meta to "good but situational".

Core hammer guard isn't meta, but it's definitely one of the more effective meme builds in PvP. Not sure if this build got buffed / nerfed last patch. I remember only minor fb changes and a rework of focus 4 so I assume the build is fine.

I use hammer on heal (harrier) firebrand in raids.I use it as a filler weapon (along with mace / shield) on several raid bosses. Most notably SH and samarog, where both the immob and banish are great. Compared to most other weapons, hammer is a decent utility option for both heal and spike oriented playstyles. That said mace shield is your "main" weapon set.

These aren't strictly meta builds, yet heal firebrand isn't super uncommon in raids anymore. I have no issues finding pug groups that will allow me to replace one druid on the bosses where it performs, and hammer is a better option than staff in most raids. Virtually every SH / SH CM I do with pugs, I end up on FB.

You can also go full meme with full harrier / radiance variant with hammer. Essentially you spam boons and hammer autos to maximize symbol uptime which provides both DPS and heals. This is pretty off-meta meme build, but since you're full harrier firebrand you can still hard-carry any players through fractals and open world without issues. The build is still mostly focussed on support and healing; it just gives you more selfish DPS options for when the overheal isn't needed, and utilizes hammer well.It's rotation is also pretty simple, as you wanna 1111 in hammer as much as possible. Keep in mind this is strictly worse than several other options like support chrono's who actually try to squeeze out their dps. It's something I tried for entertainment, works fine if you ignore performance and actually has both decent DPS and decent support compared to a lot of fractal players but it's strictly worse than chrono / druid combinations by any measurement. Didn't continue because it's "kinda bad". More fun in open world because you have far more personal damage when you're alone, even if it's still low compared to real self-sufficient DPS classes.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Alga.6498 said:I love hammers, I use hammer for all the professions who are able to equip it!I hope a new profession will learn how to use the Hammer in our 3rd expansion, :)

I'm gonna go with ranger as the obvious one to get hammer next, or mesmer as a random pick, but still feasible.

@otto.5684 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

Sorry, but no. If you want to play (as it is my case) PVE, you have to do it as PVE is and as PVE demands. ANY weapon brings more dps and utility than hammer for almost every class in PVE.

Nothing to be sorry about.PvE demands are superficial (player-imposed), and while out of the meta, hammers provide you with hard control (guardian), blast finishers and area control (warrior), ranged options (revenant), evade frames (scrapper) that would be harder to get using any other weapon, so they actually have their own role.

For guardian, If you use hammer instead of GS in any PvE context, beside for role playing, you are doing something seriously wrong. Same for using hammer or Scrapper in PvE.

None of the above have any role in PvE beside role playing, what so ever.

People love when I play hammer power/support firebrand in fractals. Constant defensive support, good heals, decent damage. Just because it isn't meta, and you don't like it, doesn't mean useless.

One thing is it not being meta. Other different thing is hammer being way behind any other weapon option in terms of DPS.As we have been saying many times: You can play hammer if you like it, but that doesn't make my OP invalid. You can also play a cleric geared druid as pure dps , and it will do some dps, for sure.

[Klowdy.3126]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Alga.6498 said:I love hammers, I use hammer for all the professions who are able to equip it!I hope a new profession will learn how to use the Hammer in our 3rd expansion, :)

I'm gonna go with ranger as the obvious one to get hammer next, or mesmer as a random pick, but still feasible.

@otto.5684 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

Hammer is considered almost mandatory on war in WvW, and is one of the "better" weapons for guard for up-keeping 100% protection uptime on itself and its party. Not every weapon has to be good for every class in every game mode. It's not even the only weapon that suffers from this...

Right, but if you realize, in the OP I was talking about open PVE, fractals and dungeons, where no hammers are seen ever, for obvious reasons. I don't play PVP/WvW, sorry.

It's just that the hammer usually brings more utility and control than pure sustained damage. In PvE you barely need this due to the glass cannon meta. Blame the players, not the hammers.

Sorry, but no. If you want to play (as it is my case) PVE, you have to do it as PVE is and as PVE demands. ANY weapon brings more dps and utility than hammer for almost every class in PVE.

Nothing to be sorry about.PvE demands are superficial (player-imposed), and while out of the meta, hammers provide you with hard control (guardian), blast finishers and area control (warrior), ranged options (revenant), evade frames (scrapper) that would be harder to get using any other weapon, so they actually have their own role.

For guardian, If you use hammer instead of GS in any PvE context, beside for role playing, you are doing something seriously wrong. Same for using hammer or Scrapper in PvE.

None of the above have any role in PvE beside role playing, what so ever.

People love when I play hammer power/support firebrand in fractals. Constant defensive support, good heals, decent damage. Just because it isn't meta, and you don't like it, doesn't mean useless.

One thing is it not being meta. Other different thing is hammer being way behind any other weapon option in terms of DPS.As we have been saying many times: You can play hammer if you like it, but that doesn't make my OP invalid. You can also play a cleric geared druid as pure dps , and it will do some dps, for sure.

What I'm pointing out is it is much more useful than you make it seem. I've never looked at hammer as a dps weapon, much like rev staff. DPS isn't the only aspect to this game, especially with the shift with elite specs. There are pure support classes, and from what I've seen from hammer, it has a good mix of different support, and CC.