1-Shot Soulbeast -- An example of the worst "balance"

[whoknocks.4935]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:This topic was already thoroughly covered here ->

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/47047/60-000-damage-from-1-ability-is-that-normal/p1

Quick summary for those who missed it:

• 60k single strike is real, but only in Eternal Coliseum with artifact +20% buff and additional +20% buff from the Grenth kill. Otherwise 40k'ish is the highest a one shot soulbeast is going to land.
• Yes the build is real, yes it can stealth for that long.
• While complaining for nerfs, understand where the problem lies with why this damage is so high. It is NOT WI itself, it is the damage multipliers: Attack Of Opportunity, Moment Of Clarity, Remorseless, and Sic'Em. Without these ridiculously amplifying damage modifiers, WI is just a Gravedigger swing. So when screaming at Anet for nerfs, Don't ask for WI to be Nerfed, because that won't change Mauls from hitting you for 40ks. You need to request the sick damage multipliers to be nerfed.
• This build performs terribly in a competitive environment. Players should be less worried about gimmicky one shot soulbeasts, and more worried about 2-3 shot soulbeasts that are actually running competitive build structures. In this case, it is Sic'Em specifically, that is equating to highly over powered Rapid Fires, 2-3 shot mauls & WIs, and 2000 range unblockable undodgable 6s reveals.

Let's also not forgot the other classes with ridiculously high DPS that can run more practical bursts without needing to go unranked gimmick to do it. So be careful where you toss the nerf train agro.

Who gets hit by maul/worldly impact 3 times in a row in a competitive environment? The druid root chain is way worse than any other ranger ability.

The problem is, you should always have a way to react and counter attack your enemy. For example spellbreaker is op and easy and all you want, but you actually see it charging into you, you see him using his stuns and you can counter attack him dodging the right things.Classes who can caught and in 2 seconds finish you without any real warning are a cancer and not healthy for the game. And even if you survive some burst you are already done at 20% hp and there is no way you can flip back the fight. Like condi mirages who ambush you and in 3 seconds you are downed or spamming scourges who ports on you and spam every single shade they have interrupting every single skill you try to cast, this is not healthy.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Did you not see the pictures I posted in the first post? Literal one-shot. 25k damage from a single skill, I had only 16k max health. That's the definition of a one-shot.

Yea i saw them but theirs only 1 guy who uses it. He did the same to other good players. Nobody else knows the build therefore it will

never

get nerfed

Except people have reverse engineered the build (see the thread which @Trevor Boyer.6524 referred to). It is definitely a glass cannon that requires some setup which would generally be impractical in 5v5s, but nonetheless is completely ridiculous in any environment.

[messiah.1908]

i also hate to get hit from stealth and get killed. but with pvp the solution is 1 player like power rev or thief to follow those yolo builds and shut them down or just put them on defense mode. than the rest of the group can focus it and go 5v4.the problem in pvp no one listen or follow direction or any tactic so even if we might had comms in game you will probably get trash respond from other playersalso solution is to nef dmg from stealth by 50% beside thief which is his theme

[Falan.1839]

As some people here pointed out, these builds are annoying to play against and can fuck you up, but generally aren't effective as soon as people are paying attention, since you dedicate basically all your ressources into a single oneshot and then are left extremely vulnerable and possibly not in the situation to finish off your downed enemy. It's not like the meta revolved around these builds, even though they pop up here and there.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:I can't believe this game ever tried to be esports.If it makes you happy to hear, the build is completely unusable on a competitive environment.

This isn't very comforting since I would hesitate to say we even have a competitive environment at all in GW2. Not speaking about player skill but well, just compare it to GW1's GvG and Hall of Heroes to see why AT's are nothing short of a glorified team queue.

[PaRaPhReNiA.8763]

Broken as(!) Wolfi build

[suffish.4150]

Leave oneshot soulbeast as it is. It’s a total trash build for overall play, even something like gunflame warr is more useful, but it’s so much fun to troll around with and make people angry. Would be a shame if those 30k worldly impacts cease to be possible in pvp.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Vagrant.7206" said:The hit was so hard it skipped my auto-elixir S

Not to detract from your statement but can I have this?

"Got hit so hard it skipped my passives" Is my new favorite thing.

[TheDevice.2751]

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:I can't believe this game ever tried to be esports.If it makes you happy to hear, the build is completely unusable on a competitive environment.

this is always the sleeziest excuse for broken bs in any game

[storm.3120]

@Vagrant.7206 said:The hit was so hard it skipped my auto-elixir SSmall note, to any passive of that kind to kick in , you should be under said health treshold .... I thought everyone know that? (to actually proc if , you take any damage while having somethin like 24% ,any damage, even lethal would prevent death/damage and shrink you while if you take lethal damage above like 26% ,you will die)

[Coolguy.8702]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Except people have reverse engineered the build (see the thread which @Trevor Boyer.6524 referred to). It is definitely a glass cannon that requires some setup which would generally be impractical in 5v5s, but nonetheless is completely ridiculous in any environment.

So if its “impractical “ in 5v5 why start this thread?

Id suggest playing that build yourself first, then come back and judge it

[Daishi.6027]

Feel like the problem is more with smokescale, in combination with soul beast, the core survivability tools offered by some weapons, and good recovery even on squishy builds. Which would be fine if the pet wasn't so good. It makes the spec have quite a large amount of damage that can easy to deny escape, and play fairly safe.

The skill alone is kinda fine, burst from stealth is nothing new (look at malicious backstab). Sure the numbers are large but it should be expected to do a lot of harm, it's mostly a problem when you are aware of your target and they have every tool they need to stay alive but threaten you with decent passive damage from pet, and can spike you hard with no real build up compared to the way a war/thief has to, or how empty a mes is after an attempt.

I suggest making smokescale a versatile archetype at least for PvP and swapping the might for fury or retaliation, that way you have less of a complete package but can still perform these kinds of numbers with more steps and pets.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

One shot with WI is not the only issue with how broken SB is. So lets say a SB begins its combo from the smokescale stealth. Sic Em, into PointBlank Shot, Rapidfire, F2 when melded that will follow across the map, F1 CC, WI, Maul, GS5, Maul, unmeld for smokescale cc. What are you supposed to dodge from such a long azz high damaging chain while having Reveil on you? You could Blink out and LoS, but not everyone can do that, so what if you're unable to blink, wtf do you do against that? Peeps damage controlling WI one shots with the "lol kid learn2dodge" should understand that WI is not the only thing that can drain you in seconds.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@michelada.2947 said:One day they will undestand how ridiculous bad implemented stealth is in this game.

For that you need a pvp dev team that plays their game. They don't have that. They will never understand how broken stealth openers are in this game.

[Madisonlee.9641]

I dunno, I totally understand the criticism of stealth openers, I just never personally had a problem defending against them (and I don't consider myself a great player). Sure, if you're caught with no CDs or are +1ed etc, you're gonna die to a stealth opener, but you're gonna die to anything decent at that point.

If I'm aware there is a single opponent trying to stealth burst me, such as a mantra mes, and I am at decent health with my CDs ready, they aren't going to kill me with their stealth burst; I might get outplayed/outmatched and die to them regardless, but that stealth burst is not going to kill me unless they get lucky. If they kill you multiple times and you can't do anything about it, not even run, you need to rethink your build or practice more.

If you don't have the tools/skill to defend against a playstyle, don't go crying on forums about it. For example, don't get salty when a condi player repeatedly kittens on you when you're not running adequate condi cleanse or don't have the skills to dodge the application.

TLDR: L2P heh

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

@Daishi.6027 said:Feel like the problem is more with smokescale, in combination with soul beast, the core survivability tools offered by some weapons, and good recovery even on squishy builds. Which would be fine if the pet wasn't so good. It makes the spec have quite a large amount of damage that can easy to deny escape, and play fairly safe.

The skill alone is kinda fine, burst from stealth is nothing new (look at malicious backstab). Sure the numbers are large but it should be expected to do a lot of harm, it's mostly a problem when you are aware of your target and they have every tool they need to stay alive but threaten you with decent passive damage from pet, and can spike you hard with no real build up compared to the way a war/thief has to, or how empty a mes is after an attempt.

I suggest making smokescale a versatile archetype at least for PvP and swapping the might for fury or retaliation, that way you have less of a complete package but can still perform these kinds of numbers with more steps and pets.

Why do everyone so Keen on screwing up the smokescale??? Is it not screwed enough already???

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@Madisonlee.9641 said:I dunno, I totally understand the criticism of stealth openers, I just never personally had a problem defending against them (and I don't consider myself a great player). Sure, if you're caught with no CDs or are +1ed etc, you're gonna die to a stealth opener, but you're gonna die to anything decent at that point.

If I'm aware there is a single opponent trying to stealth burst me, such as a mantra mes, and I am at decent health with my CDs ready, they aren't going to kill me with their stealth burst; I might get outplayed/outmatched and die to them regardless, but that stealth burst is not going to kill me unless they get lucky. If they kill you multiple times and you can't do anything about it, not even run, you need to rethink your build or practice more.

If you don't have the tools/skill to defend against a playstyle, don't go crying on forums about it. For example, don't get salty when a condi player repeatedly kittens on you when you're not running adequate condi cleanse or don't have the skills to dodge the application.

TLDR: L2P heh

Okay, you have all your CD. I perma stealth 1 shot you with Malicious Backstab. Counter? Good luck finding one.

I stack 12sec of stealth to one shot you with WI. When do you dodge? sec 2, sec 4, sec 6, sec 11? All you will do is spam a few dodges trying to predict the opener but when a person can stack so much stealth, your dodges are rng af. Good luck with this kind of counter to stealth openers.

[Kawloon Fuathach.3807]

Good to see Harsh Master still kicking about. Miss running into him!

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:Feel like the problem is more with smokescale, in combination with soul beast, the core survivability tools offered by some weapons, and good recovery even on squishy builds. Which would be fine if the pet wasn't so good. It makes the spec have quite a large amount of damage that can easy to deny escape, and play fairly safe.

The skill alone is kinda fine, burst from stealth is nothing new (look at malicious backstab). Sure the numbers are large but it should be expected to do a lot of harm, it's mostly a problem when you are aware of your target and they have every tool they need to stay alive but threaten you with decent passive damage from pet, and can spike you hard with no real build up compared to the way a war/thief has to, or how empty a mes is after an attempt.

I suggest making smokescale a versatile archetype at least for PvP and swapping the might for fury or retaliation, that way you have less of a complete package but can still perform these kinds of numbers with more steps and pets.

Why do everyone so Keen on screwing up the smokescale??? Is it not screwed enough already???

Because its the only useful pet in this game lol

[storm.3120]

@Nuka Cola.8520Why just point finger at players that way better than most ,if not everyone who post here, that get clean oneshots regardless of hp/armor/protection? (and even being aware about its coming xD) Breaks any 'l2p' calls ;)

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"Nuka Cola.8520"Why just point finger at players that way better than most ,if not everyone who post here, that get clean oneshots regardless of hp/armor/protection? (and even being aware about its coming xD) Breaks any 'l2p' calls ;)

Because a one shot shouldn't exist in pvp that is "supposedly" balanced by a dev with over 300 members.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@suffish.4150 said:Leave oneshot soulbeast as it is. It’s a total trash build for overall play, even something like gunflame warr is more useful, but it’s so much fun to troll around with and make people angry. Would be a shame if those 30k worldly impacts cease to be possible in pvp.

This is essentially two good reasons to eradicate the build. Just because it's not effective overall doesn't make the 1-shot capabilities acceptable. If a build exists, is not effective or useful in any of the three game modes and is really only capable of causing distress to players fighting against it, it just embodies griefing/trolling, particularly against newer or less experienced players. Ask yourselves, should this really be an option in the game?

[Liewec.2896]

the sad thing is that this should be how dagger thief plays, (though obviously not such huge dmg)not a pet class with a giant sword XDif anyone is complaining about being ambushed from stealth with huge dmg i'd like the attacker to be the "rogue" class.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Madisonlee.9641" said:I dunno, I totally understand the criticism of stealth openers, I just never personally had a problem defending against them (and I don't consider myself a great player). Sure, if you're caught with no CDs or are +1ed etc, you're gonna die to a stealth opener, but you're gonna die to anything decent at that point.

If I'm aware there is a single opponent trying to stealth burst me, such as a mantra mes, and I am at decent health with my CDs ready, they aren't going to kill me with their stealth burst; I might get outplayed/outmatched and die to them regardless, but that stealth burst is not going to kill me unless they get lucky. If they kill you multiple times and you can't do anything about it, not even run, you need to rethink your build or practice more.

If you don't have the tools/skill to defend against a playstyle, don't go crying on forums about it. For example, don't get salty when a condi player repeatedly kittens on you when you're not running adequate condi cleanse or don't have the skills to dodge the application.

TLDR: L2P heh

What are you supposed to do if you if you never even knew the enemy was there?

That's the problem. Even "one-shot" mesmers and thieves have a period of time where you have a chance to spot them and dodge the nastiest part of their attack. The one-shot Soulbeast... I never even saw him until I was downed in one hit. There is no "L2P" against that. Your only hope is that your team has enough brains and ability to hunt down the goober running such a build, or that you're supremely lucky and manage to CC them in stealth or dodge at just a lucky moment.

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@"suffish.4150" said:Leave oneshot soulbeast as it is. It’s a total trash build for overall play, even something like gunflame warr is more useful, but it’s so much fun to troll around with and make people angry. Would be a shame if those 30k worldly impacts cease to be possible in pvp.

This is essentially two good reasons to eradicate the build. Just because it's not effective overall doesn't make the 1-shot capabilities acceptable. If a build exists, is not effective or useful in any of the three game modes and is really only capable of causing distress to players fighting against it, it just embodies griefing/trolling, particularly against newer or less experienced players. Ask yourselves, should this really be an option in the game?

Basically this.

Even if it's not a "good" build by any stretch, it's the kind of thing that deters people from playing the game mode. We already have population issues as-is, and this kind of build is just discouraging to play against. After this match, I didn't want to play PvP again for a while, it was that discouraging. Imagine somebody who just turned on GW2 to give it another go and this happened to them? They'd uninstall it.

Builds that allow this sort of behavior have no reason to exist.

[zoopop.5630]

why i moved on from this game mode in general it doesn't matter if it's competitive or not.....that's pure aids, no different from P/P deadeye before all the major nerfs to it. It was pure freaking aids for the game, just how condi mirage was and a few other specs.

This game shouldn't have any one shot builds at all unless it requires a really good amount of conditions need to be meet before u can even do it. If people can't understand that then no point in even debating or arguing over this.