Shattered Observatory (non CM)

[Malediktus.9250]

I think Shattered Observatory (non CM) need a big rework. It currently feels like a story instance because so much time is wasted waiting for NPCs to finish talking. Most people seem to skip this fractal when it is amongst the recommended ones since it is such a chore

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Telling stories is part of fractal design, happy to disappoint you.

[Randulf.7614]

I sort of agree. I'm actually a big fan of storytelling in fractals, but not in the way SO does it. I think a more passive approach works a lot better, which is why i liked such as Cliffside. Along with Thaumonova and Twilight Oasis, it is one I tend to avoid. (TO would almost be better just being the final boss or with a much smaller lead in at least).

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:I think Shattered Observatory (non CM) need a big rework. It currently feels like a story instance because so much time is wasted waiting for NPCs to finish talking.

As I understand u/ANet_Ben's explanation, some of the dialogue is there to allow a "set change," so it can't be sped up (i.e. if they removed the voice over/cinematics, we'd still be waiting). However, I doubt that's true of all the wait time. There's a lot of pausing between Artsariiv and Arkk; surely not all of it is necessary.

Still, reducing wait times doesn't sound like a "big rework;" it's a couple of changes about what we hear and when we hear it, not anything fundamental to the fractal design.

Most people seem to skip this fractal when it is amongst the recommended ones since it is such a choreYou think most people skip this because it's got an extra 2 minutes of waiting? I don't see any evidence of that at all. The overall time feels longer than some fractals, but it's still a lot faster than others.

[Vinceman.4572]

A lot of people skip Shattered Observatory because level 100 non-CM is way too hard for the casual crowd and level 75 as well. Although it got nerfed a little bit and some more people got used to it, a lot of pugs still avoid it because they think it's too hard. The introduction of that fractal meant a break and the t4 population hasn't recovered from that.These people felt that they can go with every class into t4s and beat them. With some reworks of other fractals and this introduction people were not longer able to run in heavily mixed groups. I don't recommend doing 75 or 100 with such players because it'll end in a disaster as long as you don't have a healer around.I'm always shaking my head when I set up "recs" while 75 is one of them and the players joining do not want to play that fractal because it's too hard. I also had rage quitters and saw me confronted with heavy insults from those players. "This fractal is shxt." was one of the most harmless expressions I saw.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The overall time feels longer than some fractals, but it's still a lot faster than others.

What?

[Malediktus.9250]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

Most people seem to skip this fractal when it is amongst the recommended ones since it is such a choreYou think

most

people skip this because it's got an extra 2 minutes of waiting? I don't see any evidence of that at all. The overall time feels longer than some fractals, but it's still a lot faster than others.

It happens, just today 3 people left the rec group because they didnt want to do the roleplay garbage on lvl 25 (we started with t3 rec and worked our way down). Then we disbanded because of course it would be even more waste of time to find 3 more people for just one rec.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Still, reducing wait times doesn't sound like a "big rework;" it's a couple of changes about what we hear and when we hear it, not anything fundamental to the fractal design.

Pretty sure it would be quite a large rework for Anet. They would have to rewrite the whole script for that fractal

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Telling stories is part of fractal design, happy to disappoint you.Source? I know most fractals tell some sort of story, but Anet made it so that they only cause minimal stalling. In a speedclear group for recs it is easily half the playtime on shattered observatory and then 100cm takes the same time as a rec.

[Zaraki.5784]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Telling stories is part of fractal design, happy to disappoint you.

For the first time ok, not for subsequent ones imho. There should be a way (something like skipping cinematics), to avoid that (if every party member agree).

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The overall time feels longer than some fractals, but it's still a lot faster than others.

What?

How long does it take your team (or PUG) to do each fractal? Sort by duration and let us know where SO ends up.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

Fractals story mode is an answer.

[Malediktus.9250]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

Fractals story mode is an answer.

That sounds like a waste of development effort. Just like it would be a waste of time for raids. How many people play through story missions more than once? Maybe a few do 2nd time for missed achievements. Story content that is not seamlessly integrated into proper content is just wasted effort in multi player games.

[zealex.9410]

In the cm u can speek the rp walk with the npc trying to open the gates, is that not the case with the nm?

[TexZero.7910]

@"zealex.9410" said:In the cm u can speek the rp walk with the npc trying to open the gates, is that not the case with the nm?

You can open the first portal in advance of the asura in both modes. The last portal still requires watching the ball bounce and the level to "change" behind the scenes.

[Nephalem.8921]

The normal arkk version also bugs out a lot when you have too much dps. Arkk becomes invuln and is stuck in phase, pillars don't respawn and sparks don't spawn.I don't know. That fractal is such a bugged mess that i'm afraid every change will completely break it.

The cm version has lots of bugs aswell but i never saw him getting stuck.

Removing the dialogue is not that easy though. Some of it is there to explain fractal mechanics. They should just enable the cm version with level scaling so everyone can do the cm variant in recommendeds just with less boss health.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

Fractals story mode is an answer.

That sounds like a waste of development effort. Just like it would be a waste of time for raids. How many people play through story missions more than once? Maybe a few do 2nd time for missed achievements. Story content that is not seamlessly integrated into proper content is just wasted effort in multi player games.

Actually fractals are better suited for this than raids. Made them story for T1, but for other tiers, where usuall dialogue stalling would happen, Dessa says "okay, we did this already, you know the drill, let's go" and fractal continues.

[zealex.9410]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

Fractals story mode is an answer.

That sounds like a waste of development effort. Just like it would be a waste of time for raids. How many people play through story missions more than once? Maybe a few do 2nd time for missed achievements. Story content that is not seamlessly integrated into proper content is just wasted effort in multi player games.

Actually fractals are better suited for this than raids. Made them story for T1, but for other tiers, where usuall dialogue stalling would happen, Dessa says "okay, we did this already, you know the drill, let's go" and fractal continues.

Ehh, some things like boss dialogue and such which are purelly story and not mechanic related would be only in t1 that way. I honestly enjoyed my first time wiping to enso that much more because of how badass he sounds and IS

I just think the devs should make sure theres isnt to much rp1 inbetween encounters and eso rp u cant ignore and move on.

But tbf shattered isnt a crazy outlier either. Groups could (prob still can) clear it as fast as they would with any other recent fractal.

[Astralporing.1957]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

Fractals story mode is an answer.

That sounds like a waste of development effort. Just like it would be a waste of time for raids. How many people play through story missions more than once? Maybe a few do 2nd time for missed achievements. Story content that is not seamlessly integrated into proper content is just wasted effort in multi player games.

Actually fractals are better suited for this than raids. Made them story for T1, but for other tiers, where usuall dialogue stalling would happen, Dessa says "okay, we did this already, you know the drill, let's go" and fractal continues.

Ehh, some things like boss dialogue and such which are purelly story and not mechanic related would be only in t1 that way. I honestly enjoyed my first time wiping to enso that much more because of how kitten he sounds and

IS

I just think the devs should make sure theres isnt to much rp1 inbetween encounters and eso rp u cant ignore and move on.

But tbf shattered isnt a crazy outlier either. Groups could (prob still can) clear it as fast as they would with any other recent fractal.

There was that post of Anet sometime ago, when they said that SO (and Oasis, for that matter) were outliers here, with significantly higher completion times than the rest of the pack.

[zealex.9410]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I believe that the OP is saying that there's too much waiting around in Shattered Observatory. Regardless of how long it actually takes, it feels more tedious because so much time is spent waiting for the next transition to trigger. It feels as if the duration was artificially extended, rather than artfully lengthened and that takes away from my enjoyment of the best parts of that fractal.

I agree that I'd like to see ANet revisit that.

It's unfortunate that the phrasing used to originally make the case includes assumptions posted as fact, and hopefully ANet can read through that to focus on the issue: even an interesting story becomes boring the 10th and especially the 50th time one is forced to listen to it.

Fractals story mode is an answer.

That sounds like a waste of development effort. Just like it would be a waste of time for raids. How many people play through story missions more than once? Maybe a few do 2nd time for missed achievements. Story content that is not seamlessly integrated into proper content is just wasted effort in multi player games.

Actually fractals are better suited for this than raids. Made them story for T1, but for other tiers, where usuall dialogue stalling would happen, Dessa says "okay, we did this already, you know the drill, let's go" and fractal continues.

Ehh, some things like boss dialogue and such which are purelly story and not mechanic related would be only in t1 that way. I honestly enjoyed my first time wiping to enso that much more because of how kitten he sounds and

IS

I just think the devs should make sure theres isnt to much rp1 inbetween encounters and eso rp u cant ignore and move on.

But tbf shattered isnt a crazy outlier either. Groups could (prob still can) clear it as fast as they would with any other recent fractal.

There was that post of Anet sometime ago, when they said that SO (and Oasis, for that matter) were outliers here, with significantly higher completion times than the rest of the pack.

During that time TO was alot newer and hadnt recieve its tuning. I mostly layed the 100cm and compairing it to like 99cm or one of the medium/longer base fractals it was pretty in line time wise.

[Dante.1763]

@"Vinceman.4572" said:A lot of people skip Shattered Observatory because level 100 non-CM is way too hard for the casual crowd and level 75 as well. Although it got nerfed a little bit and some more people got used to it, a lot of pugs still avoid it because they think it's too hard. The introduction of that fractal meant a break and the t4 population hasn't recovered from that.These people felt that they can go with every class into t4s and beat them. With some reworks of other fractals and this introduction people were not longer able to run in heavily mixed groups. I don't recommend doing 75 or 100 with such players because it'll end in a disaster as long as you don't have a healer around.I'm always shaking my head when I set up "recs" while 75 is one of them and the players joining do not want to play that fractal because it's too hard. I also had rage quitters and saw me confronted with heavy insults from those players. "This fractal is shxt." was one of the most harmless expressions I saw.

I mean, i just did 100 non CM with two Sbs(one condi one not), a reaper, a chrono, and a warrior(not meta) so it cant be that hard. We did wipe on whats her name two or three times, because of org issues, but after that no issues or wiping at all, so its not that hard, if you put forth the effort at least.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Dante.1763 said:I mean, i just did 100 non CM with two Sbs(one condi one not), a reaper, a chrono, and a warrior(not meta) so it cant be that hard. We did wipe on whats her name two or three times, because of org issues, but after that no issues or wiping at all, so its not that hard, if you put forth the effort at least.

Of course it's not hard. I did it with 2 guild mates and we aren't a members of a speed run or hardcore community. I also carried a lot of first timers through it. It's just that a lot of these folks have no clue. And if they have no clue + being unable to carry their weight and they go without a good leader or a decent healer they'll have a hard time.When they get lucky they find themselves together with 2-3 other experienced players like you or me. If not, there are 4-5 players with almost 0 clue at all and they won't make it. I've seen funny things in 100 normal mode, for example 3-4 players trying to bounce the marble on Virastraa although it was called by a player several times. It's funny because then you almost deal 0 damage to her and the pattern repeats itself. Another thing I can giggle about is when 4 people are getting feared by the eye of Arkk. It's not due to thinking how bad they are the picture is just very funny to watch. These things happen. I have seen them and I've seen them more than once. Or at least 1-3 people dying in the first 10% of the boss fight - on normal mode which is very - let's say disturbing.

As long as you can make it, no problem for you but there are a lot of players out there not being able to carry their weight and if they don't get competent team mates it's impossible to be successful. That's why a lot of them don't even run 100 normal mode and TO.

[zealex.9410]

That fractal much like the nerfs to dungeins have left a stigma. I dont think theres anything majorly wrong with the content but tmeither anet or the players should become more open in doing it. Either by anet promoting guides on it or the players themselves watching a guide.

You can still do every fractal with any comp or build that you like.

[Bugabuga.9721]

@zealex.9410 said:That fractal much like the nerfs to dungeins have left a stigma. I dont think theres anything majorly wrong with the content but tmeither anet or the players should become more open in doing it. Either by anet promoting guides on it or the players themselves watching a guide.

You can still do every fractal with any comp or build that you like.

Of course you can, if people kind of know how stuff works. However with random pugs (we're not talking highly organized somewhat meta-group that has chrono and, say, one of soulbeasts bringing spirits or something advanced like that) 100's bouncy balls turn into giant clown fiesta of death. And I bet 40 minutes is where many such groups give up and leave. Do you want to spend 40 minutes on re-trying just Virasta with toxic + afflicted + social awkwardness? So unless everyone seems to be working together well enough, it simply gets skipped. There are more fun ways to spend that time in game :)

[Eramonster.2718]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I think Shattered Observatory (non CM) need a big rework. It currently feels like a story instance because so much time is wasted waiting for NPCs to finish talking. Most people seem to skip this fractal when it is amongst the recommended ones since it is such a chore

I'm fine with fractals being or having a story. Do enjoy the recent fractals stories for S.O(tied with Nightmare and Chaos), T.O and Deepstone. Unlike Swamp and Solid Ocean, feels kinda random with no background explanation and not to mention boring (if that's the goal to explain fractals, it kinda did the job). For the length, I do agree with having a means to skip or cut short some delays in S.O. which might save a few of minutes(?)

1) Allowing players to touch the orb to start Skorvald to skip the starting dialog and option to skip the blinding cut scene after.2) Able to interact with Viirastra to skip her starting dialog.3) To be able to open the portal to Arkk after interacting with the console. No longer need to wait for Yokko.4) An optional button/orb to KILL Yokko! (By accident) to start the combat, skipping the interaction between Arkk and Yokko.