I like the staff rework

[Fashion Mage.3712]

Really liking Holy Strike and the new auto attack. Bow of Truth works quite nicely with it as well, now that its improved radius actually makes it usable.

[Opopanax.1803]

The auto attack is better with both graphics and three stages as well as finally getting a core 1200 ranged weapon.

2 is vastly better in so many repects, both the ground targeting and the blast finisher... now we can utilize water fields and have more coordinated play. And the animation is also amazing!

Very good stuff by the devs. I feel staff is in a place that I can stop bitching about it now.

[starlinvf.1358]

@otto.5684 said:Quick testing in PvE power build with retaliation, the damage is too low. I dunno if we could see return of WvW celestial dps staff guardians. I think that is the only place where these changes might matter. I do think the Empower changes are great for PvE support, but would not make FB support a think in raids.

I dunno what was the purpose of the rework. Beside making staff a glorified loot stick, I do not think the changes are of any impact.

Its pretty much the best in WvW its ever been. Staff was never focused on damage, but its complaints from the WvW side had to do with how it worked mechanically. Wave of Wrath's only redeeming quality was its reach, and it was needed for tagging when used with any Support oriented build due to the paired weapons (usually Hammer or mace) being incredibly slow, and made more for point control. But staff always had a solid place in non-roaming WvW builds due to its high utility; Group Swiftness, Wards to add CC at the start or end of a push, and very easy might stacks when the zerg groups up. The only other reliable swiftness came from Mesmer focus, and while Druids could stack might and heal, they were insanely vulnerable to hard CCs and very limited Condi clears given how bad CA was on the move.

Which brought us the current meta with FB. In most cases, a FB is almost, if not completely support speced to counter Scourge bombs and the modified Pirateship- meaning they carried Mace/Sh or Axe/Sh, a Staff for its general utility, and are more likely to be in Tome 2 or 3 if the enemy is in melee range. This creates a problem where the FB has difficulty with tagging outside of Tome 1.. and if they're in Tome 1, it means the enemy is already on its way to being wiped out. It isn't particularly new problem for Support Guard builds, but one that feels like you're losing out on precious drops/bags just to keep the rest of the bag farm alive. With there being more FB then participation slots in a squad, its something they've accepted in order to function.

But the staff changes adds a more reliable ranged option the Guard would have to get on DH Bow, a weapon that was still sub-par, that only pulled ahead of Scepter due to having more range AND more then one multi-target skill. The new staff skills now offer the ability to tag single downs on the go, and an extra AOE option where there was only 1 before on a longer then acceptable cool down for tagging purposes.

[Vasen.2407]

@"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:I like the changes but maybe there are a few things you guys can answer for me.

1. Should the final staff auto apply a boon or condition? It seems odd that all it does is hit more targets. I think the projectiles later on the chain also travel slower.
2. Staff 2 is now a blast finisher even though its not stated on tool tip?
3. Staff 2 "pulses" but the number on the tool tip does not say anything like (4x) like a symbol or (7x) like whirling wrath so what exactly is pulsing? I only see 1 number when I dps something so its definitely not the damage so is the heal pulsing? If so is the number on the tooltip the max heal or the heal per pulse?

Additional QoL I would really love:

1. Make Empower castable while moving at a reduced speed (50% normal speed or something).
2. Courage signet is still god awful, please rework it again and/or significantly reduce cast time. The current cast time would only be ok if it full revived all downed allies in area and healed all non downed allies to full hp.

edit: also please let mantras prioritize party membersThanks.

If you watch carefully, the pulse is the heal. target someone and cast it, you will see them healed 4 times in under a second

[Yannir.4132]

@Vasen.2407 said:

@"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:I like the changes but maybe there are a few things you guys can answer for me.

1. Should the final staff auto apply a boon or condition? It seems odd that all it does is hit more targets. I think the projectiles later on the chain also travel slower.
2. Staff 2 is now a blast finisher even though its not stated on tool tip?
3. Staff 2 "pulses" but the number on the tool tip does not say anything like (4x) like a symbol or (7x) like whirling wrath so what exactly is pulsing? I only see 1 number when I dps something so its definitely not the damage so is the heal pulsing? If so is the number on the tooltip the max heal or the heal per pulse?

Additional QoL I would really love:

1. Make Empower castable while moving at a reduced speed (50% normal speed or something).
2. Courage signet is still god awful, please rework it again and/or significantly reduce cast time. The current cast time would only be ok if it full revived all downed allies in area and healed all non downed allies to full hp.

edit: also please let mantras prioritize party membersThanks.

If you watch carefully, the pulse is the heal. target someone and cast it, you will see them healed 4 times in under a second

And if you read the tooltip, it's pretty obvious as well. "Pulses healing to allies and damages foes." Maybe they could add the "4x-" on the healing part to make it more obvious.

[Brutaly.6257]

I like it as well but i would like to see some tweaks.

1. Make it possible to move while using empower.
2. Add a boon or two to skill 5. I would prefer the boons were self centered and not tied the placement of the line.
3. I would like skill 2 to be a symbol. That would improve the symbol traits greatly and add build divesity.

In the staff trait i would add that using a staff skill heals x allies for a small amount in a 360 radius.

With that said i tested different setups yesterday and normally i have no issues finding a comfortable build but in this case i am drawing a blank. Will be interesting to see what people come up with.

[Kiroshima.8497]

I'm enjoying staff as a ranged Permeating Wrath weapon, since the 2nd and 3rd parts of the auto chain have an AoE component, and you can use staff 2 on your feet for healing or for more aoe pressure with staff 3.

[AllNightPlayer.1286]

@Opopanax.1803 said:And the animation is also amazing!I love, how they merged every (ranged) staff auto-attack animation into one chain. It would have been sad, if they removed the original animation, but now, it uses elementalist/mesmer/necromancer plus guardian plus druid auto-attack animation. :heart:

[draxynnic.3719]

I have mixed feelings myself - I liked the old behaviour of being a flamethrower-style weapon with the ability to poke at long ranges.

The boonsmiting of Wave of Wrath left it in a situation where nobody was happy, though, and the Radiance-Virtues-Firebrand build largely covers that playstyle. Healing allies with the new skill 2 is a lot easier than it was before, and the third skill on the autoattack chain is essentially replacing undetonated Orb of Light.

On the whole, it's objectively an improvement over what guardian staff was before the patch, and from a holistic viewpoint, the new staff (with the existence of Firebrand as an additional consideration) is a big improvement to guardian overall, even compared to the original staff mechanics.

[juno.1840]

Staff 2 can heal 3500-4000 in minstrel's gear with good +outgoing (sigil of transference, delicious rice balls, etc.). The staff 2 is also good for stripping aegis off opposing teams. Staff 3 does this well too, but now you have two options instead of one.

Staff 1 is very nice mostly because of 1200 range. The old staff 1 was nerfed a year ago to have 300 range (instead of 600), and to hit 3 targets (instead of 5). With the new range, it gives support guardian a chance to tag things without being up in it. Also the damage is higher than the old staff 1, so you don't need as many hits to register your tag.

Guardians need bags too :)

[starlinvf.1358]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@Vasen.2407 said:

@"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:I like the changes but maybe there are a few things you guys can answer for me.

1. Should the final staff auto apply a boon or condition? It seems odd that all it does is hit more targets. I think the projectiles later on the chain also travel slower.
2. Staff 2 is now a blast finisher even though its not stated on tool tip?
3. Staff 2 "pulses" but the number on the tool tip does not say anything like (4x) like a symbol or (7x) like whirling wrath so what exactly is pulsing? I only see 1 number when I dps something so its definitely not the damage so is the heal pulsing? If so is the number on the tooltip the max heal or the heal per pulse?

Additional QoL I would really love:

1. Make Empower castable while moving at a reduced speed (50% normal speed or something).
2. Courage signet is still god awful, please rework it again and/or significantly reduce cast time. The current cast time would only be ok if it full revived all downed allies in area and healed all non downed allies to full hp.

edit: also please let mantras prioritize party membersThanks.

If you watch carefully, the pulse is the heal. target someone and cast it, you will see them healed 4 times in under a second

And if you read the tooltip, it's pretty obvious as well. "Pulses healing to allies and damages foes." Maybe they could add the "4x-" on the healing part to make it more obvious.

But no skill I've ever seen does that in its description. Its always "Healing: X" or "Healing per Pulse" and "Pulses: X", and just do the math.

[Ultimaistanza.4793]

Really love the staff changes. About the only thing that I would like to see a little more done with, is maybe adding a little something more to the auto chain. Like given that the staff is support focused, I would kinda like to see maybe a little healing or a boon applied to the 1. And by that I don't mean like every attack. It could apply a small heal or a boon on the final part of the auto attack chain (similarly to like how the Guardian GS auto chain gives might on the final part of the chain).

[Magnuzone.8395]

@Swagger.1459 said:GJ on the change!

Yeah its not to bad tbh

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Amazing to actually use Mace/Shield/Staff and have a full support Guardian now. I didn't like that before you had to drop to damage if you were hurting and needed some range, that's not what heavy frontline healer is meant to do.

Now you can fall back and keep healing yourself+allies and jump back in, its a much more robust weapon for supports.

The only thing i would change is to add Regeneration boon to the auto-chain #3, the direct heals on the other skills are nice but as we all know healing in every game mode is a combination of direct heals and regen (and water fields but I digress).

[Fashion Mage.3712]

I would imagine they didn't add any sort of support effect to the auto-chain because support effects attached to auto-attacks tend to be rather clunky.

[Opopanax.1803]

I'd like to have a water field on bow of truth...

[Rhyse.8179]

Comprehensive review of the new staff:

Summary: Is gud. Me like. Mostly.

Pros: Responsive on demand skills (2 + 3), high risk high reward heal/buff (4), synergy with many trait lines.Cons: Awkward AA chain, 5 is useless in PVE.

Skill 1: The DPS and AOE are just fine for it's role, but having it be Single>Aoe>Aoe, with each projectile having multiple speeds and visuals, just feels weird. I mean, it's effective, but it doesn't have a satisfying rhythm like most AA chains. Suggestion: Normalize projectile speeds across the chainSkill 2: Exceptional.Skill 3: Very good. Weak unless traited, but that's perfectly acceptable for a support weapon.Skill 4: Very good. AOE heal is nice to have. Wish like hell you could move during it, even if it was a slow speed, just so I stop accidentally canceling it.Skill 5: USELESS (in PVE). Does literally nothing of value. An empty skill slot would be better so I'm not tempted to waste the casting time. Suggestion: In PVE only, have it apply a buff to allies (like aegis or protection), or alternately, make it knock back foes when it's created so it can be used on break bars (Elementalist: Staff: Earth 4 does this).

[kasoki.5180]

Overall I would say I like it, actually made me spec into healer on my FB. Only thing is that, as some have previously noted, skill #5 feels useless in pve. So maybe in future we could get some boon on it, simply to make it usable.

But overall, it feels nice

[Brutaly.6257]

Been playing around with staff in pvp and wvw and got to adjust some of my suggested tweaks.

On #5 add in a fire field and a knockback when placed.On #4 let us move when castingOn #1 add a small heal on every cast.

I found a power/hybrid FB build that also works nice in both pvp and wvw, enjoying staff/Scepter/Shield.

[Iozeph.5617]

@"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:I like the changes but maybe there are a few things you guys can answer for me.

1. Should the final staff auto apply a boon or condition? It seems odd that all it does is hit more targets. I think the projectiles later on the chain also travel slower.
2. Staff 2 is now a blast finisher even though its not stated on tool tip?
3. Staff 2 "pulses" but the number on the tool tip does not say anything like (4x) like a symbol or (7x) like whirling wrath so what exactly is pulsing? I only see 1 number when I dps something so its definitely not the damage so is the heal pulsing? If so is the number on the tooltip the max heal or the heal per pulse?

Additional QoL I would really love:

1. Make Empower castable while moving at a reduced speed (50% normal speed or something).
2. Courage signet is still god awful, please rework it again and/or significantly reduce cast time. The current cast time would only be ok if it full revived all downed allies in area and healed all non downed allies to full hp.

edit: also please let mantras prioritize party membersThanks.

For your 1. Staff is now a twelve hundred range weapon that still shotguns for the latter parts of the chain and it tracks which means in pvp/wvw you use it at max range and still get justice procs which is awesome. more awesome is that it allows us to go for a more caster centric build if we want. by taking as core -

Zeal- Fiery wrath, Kindled Zeal, Eternal Armoury

Honour- Protective Reviver, Honourable Staff, Writ of Persistance

Virtues- Master of Consecrations, Virtuous Solace/Absolute Resolution, Permeating Wrath

Take those combine them with your preference of consecrations and spirit weapons to either turn out some respectable damage or support at a reasonable distance. There's a lot more possibilities now in core just by taking staff and changing around your stats a little.

Regardless of meta Staff is now fun again.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

@Brutaly.6257 said:Been playing around with staff in pvp and wvw and got to adjust some of my suggested tweaks.

On #5 add in a fire field and a knockback when placed.On #4 let us move when castingOn #1 add a small heal on every cast.

I found a power/hybrid FB build that also works nice in both pvp and wvw, enjoying staff/Scepter/Shield.

Staff 5 is already a light field, adding a fire field to it makes 0 sense.

[Brutaly.6257]

@Darknicrofia.2604 said:

@Brutaly.6257 said:Been playing around with staff in pvp and wvw and got to adjust some of my suggested tweaks.

On #5 add in a fire field and a knockback when placed.On #4 let us move when castingOn #1 add a small heal on every cast.

I found a power/hybrid FB build that also works nice in both pvp and wvw, enjoying staff/Scepter/Shield.

Staff 5 is already a light field, adding a fire field to it makes 0 sense.

The fire field (or any other field BUT light) makes perfect sense imo due to:

1. there is already 2 light fields on the staff and replacing one type would diversify the ability to support with the staff.
2. Making it a fire field would improve the ability to ranged damage oriented support.
3. Light fields in abundance in pve is just bad, adding a light field and a knock back when placed would increase the value of the staff in pve.

[Aenaos.8160]

After the success that was the initial rework of the weapon,I welcome anything other that what was already there so, well done.

[Vyrek.5019]

I wish they would have made the old auto into a chain skill instead of making it a range weapon. It isn't that much different than scepter now. I would propose keeping skill 2 as is, but changing the auto into a new 3 part chain. Staff Strike > Staff Sweep > Wave of Wrath. Staff Strike would be a single target attack that just deals damage. Staff Sweep would be a melee range cleave that deals damage. Wave of Wrath would be exactly the same as before. That way the loot stick would still be a thing, but with nerfed ability to tag. Way more interesting than small orb > medium orb > big orb.

[Fashion Mage.3712]

Nothing makes me happier than that pitiful farming auto-attack being deleted and the staff finally becoming the ranged support weapon it should've been years ago.