HoT vs PoF specializations

[Arafel.6895]

Hello,Its really weird that so many HoT professios are still meta in PVE - and therefore are better than PoF specializationsGuardian - DH, Ranger - mainly Druid, Mesmer - Chrono, Warr - all specs are good, Necro - Scourge and Reaper are fairly good at pvp but worse at PvE., Ele - tempest is not meta, but its pretty good right now - and in fractals it may be even better than sword/D weaver, Renegade, DeadEye, Holo are a lot used in PvE - thats true.But I currently have 5 chars - DH, Berserker (switching to SB when Its needed), Ele - tempest, Necro - I play only PvP and WvW - Reaper/Scourge, Ranger - mainly Druid/I can switch to soulbeast, but I play mostly druid.What do you think about that? I always thought that newer expansion specs will be a lot better than older specs, but It is definitely not true. And i feel like PoF did not give any game-changing specs unlike HoT.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Arafel.6895 said: I always thought that newer expansion specs will be a lot better than older specs, but It is definitely not true. And i feel like PoF did not give any game-changing specs unlike HoT.

This wasnt never a goal for elite specs. Goal was to Make every class viable in every game mode. Now we have specs that works in wvw but not in raids etc. Its a good thing. Different specs are for different playstyles/gamemodes.There isnt perfect balance obviously.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Wh... why is it weird?You have classes, and elite specs are unique builds on top of that.While they in most cases are stronger since 2+1=3, it shouldn't matter if its HoT or PoF. 2+1a=3 and 2+1b=3.

They were never advertised as stronger, so why you thought they would be, i don't know.When you look at a druid, is it stronger than a core ranger? I doubt it

[Josif.2015]

Elite specializations were never meant to be better than the old specializations, rather they're meant to give professions a different playstyle. It's not about a specialization being better than the other in terms of balance, but rather it's about purpose. Most warriors agree that Berserker doesn't work in PvP/WvW and for good reasons, but is excellent in PvE. D/d thief is bad in PvP/WvW because it lacks the utility that both sw/d and d/p have, but is excellent in PvE.

[Gehenna.3625]

I just find it funny that a lot of the elite specs aren't actually elite. If they hadn't called them that there probably wouldn't be as much confusion about it. I don't like most of them anyway because they often completely change the way a class works, which doesn't help my when I like how a class plays or the spec is actually not as good as the class' core specs so then it's not really elite.

Elite implies that they are better, but it's the wrong label for what they actually are.

[Ardid.7203]

The word "Elite" was supposed to express their exclusivity as high goals , not their relative power level.However, in many cases the Elite Specs DO make the profession much stronger. Or rather, the core profession becomes outdated and weak in comparison. Its called power creep, and it occurs a lot.Of course, that was not the original intention, and it SHOULD NEVER BE. Accepting power creep is the last mistake Anet needs to make.

[Orion Templar.4589]

Agreed - elite specializations shouldn't necessarily be better than core, they should just offer different options, mechanics, and playstyle opportunities. I'd argue the word "elite" in this context just means the specialization cannot be used alongside another one that is also titled "elite". Like in GW1 where you couldn't have more than one elite skill on your bar, in GW2 you cannot have more than one elite trait line in your build.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

GW2 may have a "soft" trinity or its own version of the trinity. Whatever your view on that, the way roles shake out in GW2 is into areas like: aggro holder (some fights); group buffs; group sustain and high damage. In whatever meta you care to examine, the need for those roles varies.

So, say there's a spec (take Chrono) that is best at filling one of those niches. Making a new spec (Mirage) for the same profession is not going to mean that the new spec will step into the same role and be better at it. That's because, as others have said, each Elite Spec is supposed to provide a different way to play a profession. This means that (in the example), making Mirage better at doing what Chrono does would not be consistent with making Mirage a different play style.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@"Arafel.6895" said:I always thought that newer expansion specs will be a lot better than older specs, but It is definitely not true. And i feel like PoF did not give any game-changing specs unlike HoT.

That was never the goal. Elite specs might be better than the base profession in most cases, but they're intended to be competitive with each other, or offer different options. That's why you can only use one elite spec line at once: it's supposed to be a legitimate choice you have to make.

As for "game-changing" elite specs, while they might not have totally upended the meta, here are some new, totally viable things that became viable thanks to PoF's elite specs. This is not a complete list, by the way.

• Mirage enabled Mesmer to have very strong condi DPS.
• Holosmith gave Engineers a very strong power DPS spec.
• Firebrand and Renegade together are capable of replacing one Chronomancer in a raid group.
• Scourge is a powerful healing and support spec, especially for learning groups, where plentiful and quick group revives are extremely valuable.

[Teratus.2859]

New specs are not supposed to outright replace previous ones.

Their role is simply to enhance a class with new abilities and playstyle options.

End of the day people will play what they personally enjoy playing, and most people don't care about what their classes meta is..

My two main characters are a Ranger and a Reaper.I've never elite spec'd my Ranger because neither Druid or Soulbeast can enhance his build to justify swapping out a traitline.. his build is perfect for how I play him so I'll continue running him as a core Ranger so long as the build works as well as it does.And the same applies to my Reaper, Scourge is a good spec but it doesn't work with my Necro's build anywhere near as good as Reaper does.So I'll keep running Reaper over Scourge.

End of the day it's down to your builds and your playstyles, I prefer a lot of the HoT specs over the PoF ones and some of my builds work even better without an elite spec.

[Teratus.2859]

@Gehenna.3625 said:I just find it funny that a lot of the elite specs aren't actually elite. If they hadn't called them that there probably wouldn't be as much confusion about it. I don't like most of them anyway because they often completely change the way a class works, which doesn't help my when I like how a class plays or the spec is actually not as good as the class' core specs so then it's not really elite.

Elite implies that they are better, but it's the wrong label for what they actually are.

I can relate with that ^^Scourge being the big one.. loosing that death shroud is way too big a loss for me to justify it XDEven on my condi Necro I'd rather run a Dhuumfire Reaper than a Scourge.

[Majic.4801]

@Ardid.7203 said:Accepting power creep is the last mistake Anet needs to make.

Indeed. The rebalancing process is an endless task, and when the inevitable nerfs hit, there is always much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

But the alternative is much worse, and harmful not only to individual professions, but the game as a whole.

[Neutra.6857]

Soulbeast is used as a dps class that can take spirits need be in raids. It serves a different function from druid which is a mix of healer and support.

[blambidy.3216]

I don't think people fully think about the game with elite specs. Elite specs are valued in different ways by how you use them, and by the boss your trying to kill. Daredevil is not better then deadeye, and vise versa. Deadeye has more damage, but daredevil has more cleave.

Gaurdian tbh core is better then both specs, however viper firebrand is better in cairn then core and DH.

I would pull up more examples but it would be too much of a long writing. But to say pof Vs hot really isn't a good choice. There are pros and cons for both. And each time you would have to switch per boss.

[Pomdepin.7068]

I think if it’s the case, they nailed it! Some specs are good for PvP, others Pve. In a perfect world they would all have their use.

[Lucius.2140]

@"Ardid.7203" said:The word "Elite" was supposed to express their exclusivity as high goals , not their relative power level.However, in many cases the Elite Specs DO make the profession much stronger. Or rather, the core profession becomes outdated and weak in comparison. Its called power creep, and it occurs a lot.Of course, that was not the original intention, and it SHOULD NEVER BE. Accepting power creep is the last mistake Anet needs to make.

They already embraced it as the love of their lives.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I just find it funny that a lot of the elite specs aren't actually elite. If they hadn't called them that there probably wouldn't be as much confusion about it. I don't like most of them anyway because they often completely change the way a class works, which doesn't help my when I like how a class plays or the spec is actually not as good as the class' core specs so then it's not really elite.

Elite implies that they are better, but it's the wrong label for what they actually are.

I can relate with that ^^Scourge being the big one.. loosing that death shroud is way too big a loss for me to justify it XDEven on my condi Necro I'd rather run a Dhuumfire Reaper than a Scourge.

Indeed, for my necro I also don't use scourge because of that loss. I like the normal death shroud much better.

[Menadena.7482]

I was pretty meh about the POF elites when details about them started coming out. The HOT ones I loved and could see no reason to change to the new builds.

[Obtena.7952]

@Arafel.6895 said:Hello,Its really weird that so many HoT professios are still meta in PVE - and therefore are better than PoF specializationsGuardian - DH, Ranger - mainly Druid, Mesmer - Chrono, Warr - all specs are good, Necro - Scourge and Reaper are fairly good at pvp but worse at PvE., Ele - tempest is not meta, but its pretty good right now - and in fractals it may be even better than sword/D weaver, Renegade, DeadEye, Holo are a lot used in PvE - thats true.But I currently have 5 chars - DH, Berserker (switching to SB when Its needed), Ele - tempest, Necro - I play only PvP and WvW - Reaper/Scourge, Ranger - mainly Druid/I can switch to soulbeast, but I play mostly druid.What do you think about that? I always thought that newer expansion specs will be a lot better than older specs, but It is definitely not true. And i feel like PoF did not give any game-changing specs unlike HoT.

It's not really weird if you consider that especs aren't supposed to be power creeping the game. Many people think that HoT didn't follow that concept but I think PoF got it right. I definitely disagree that PoF didn't give any game-changing specs. That's just not true for all game modes.

[Sylvari.2953]

I disagree about DH, Longbow needs a rework and Fireband is a lot more fun with TONS of skills. <3