Why People Avoid WvW

[Knighthonor.4061]

I don't think confusion is the main reason non WvWers don't do WvW. Speaking from experience, the appeal of WvW is the large scale pvp battles which seem far to far between, with most of the gameplay Turing into the old WvW Farm map of running place to place trading capture points. Defense don't even seem like it matters anymore and the quest/events seem pointless now. WvW just doesn't have any appeal as the original hype made it out to be. There are no group roles in Zerg fights. WvW needs a passive damage reduction like most MMOs games have for their PvP.

Also another problem with WvW is that if you get eliminated during the Zerg fights while following the leaders, it's sometimes hard to get back to the Zerg to continue the large fights because normally you only have 1 waypoint for your team outside the starting area. That means lots of running time if you even make it back before a wanderer or Zerg kills you. Game needs better Rez mechanics and better mechanics to get back to the Zerg and fights.

WvW needs more objectives that are equally important or close to being equally as important as offensive zerging is. The events, the NPC factions, the PvPvE elements need to be more important in the game. Right now they are meaningless or weak and not fun or valued.

Also many people also want to play other supportive roles in WvW large scale fights, same as support players play in Raids. Problem is Support is still not as equally valued in WvW due to how fast people die, downed mechanics and a number of other things. I gave one solution which is a passive incoming damage reduction from other players. But outgoing healing needs a passive boost as wellI have more ideas to handle this but I rather make my own detailed redesign thread for WvW with my ideas neatly explained.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:The top two upvote comments are rewards.The 3rd upvote comments is "I never know what I'm meant to be doing, and I don't have enough interest in it to do some research."I believe the keywords are not the first part of the sentence but rather the second part. People simply have no interest in doing it.

Fifth upvote comment is "It's boring"6th is "This mode is one big time gate. I don't like time gates, so I play other things." which means reward.7th is "While running around in a huge zerg is fun, reward tracks aren't." which again rewards.8th is "Mainly cause I don't find a commander when I enter." which is related to population imbalance issue which I mentioned many months ago.9th upvote is a bit more detailed which include rewards, optimizations, prefer to play with elite players, lack goals...10th upvote again is population imbalance11th upvote is summarize to I don't see the point aka boring/no goals

In summary, most people playing gw2 are just pvers, not pvxers or pvpers. Rather fight monsters than humans. Those that complain lack of goals are people who prefer open world pvp than this pvp battelfield. I am sure the posts will be useful for newbies that are interested but definitely not gonna be search upon by most people that voted in reddit.

Here the thing. WvW was a major hyped feature when GW2 was just coming out. Many people were interested, but it was poorly designed. The WvW needs many new concepts and some of the old concepts either scrapped or reworked. The appeal is never going to grow under it's current designs. Right now Anet just keep adding new costs of paint to the already lead painted WvW, thinking this is going to solve the problem. WvW needs a revamp. But what ascentis does Arena Net have for putting resources into a Open world PvP simulator when they can't make money from it? They can't add Gem Store rewards for WvW because people would cry P2W. So it will never get the real revamp it needs. That's what people need to come up with some ideas to address. I think a donation mechanic for WvW development may be helpful but some people don't like the idea of donations in a item shop game.

[Gemnaid.4219]

Same reasons Anet avoids wvw.

[Zephyr.8015]

Also a big problem for the WvW ppls is Voice Coms. This isn't an issue on the server I am on personally; but I hear a lot of servers struggle to get people into a VC of some kind. WvW is a team sport, people need to be running proper builds, and be able to at least hear calls from commanders on where to move and such. Even if its just to listen to calls it helps a TON.

[SWI.4127]

@Myrdreth.6829 said:

@"sitarskee.5738" said:I try very hard not to avoid WvW since I really like the concept of it, my only problem is crybaby commanders/lieutenants who kick you from squads/insult you on map chat for running a specific class that doesn't meet "meta". I understand that for the team to win a teamfight it's best to run only firebrands and scourges but come on... I know I can still follow the squad but the feeling of being excluded out of the group isn't welcoming.

Of course I mean no offense to the commanders, in fact I've also met many nice ones and more helpful to new people. It certainly isn't easy to lead a big group of people from which 60% doesn't have any idea what they're doing.

That's exactly what happened to me. And then they insulted me and made fun about me reporting them to Anet (even though I didn't report anybody and just walked away?) xD

Just remember WvW is a game mode made up of different servers, and servers are made up of different individuals. Some servers have a nicer culture than others. Not every server is like that.

[Sylosi.6503]

@Sviel.7493 said:Players who aren't super stoked about large scale combat tend to abandon the game mode entirely.

I've corrected that for you.

[schokelmei.8271]

Why people quit that game?

• meta sucks
• wvw balancing besides the zerg meta doesn't exist
• there is not a single reason to defend or take structures but "karma training"
• server stacking is still the #1 "winning" factor
• the wvw servers are still slower than most texas instrument calculators from 1992
• a dozen other points could be added here

[Trajan.4953]

@"gebrechen.5643" said:Why people quit that game?

• meta sucks
• wvw balancing besides the zerg meta doesn't exist
• there is not a single reason to defend or take structures but "karma training"
• server stacking is still the #1 "winning" factor
• the wvw servers are still slower than most texas instrument calculators from 1992
• a dozen other points could be added here

Mostly true.

WvW was in it's prime during the new phase, nobody knew anything including the Devs. Now things have been more refined the "wild" element is gone. There used to be a wealth of possibilities and now there simply isn't (sorry rangers). With the dearth of newer players the demand for nerfs/buffs/rewards has superseded the actual game mode. Now we have a mix of old school and new school bashing heads and a game mode that is not changing to meet the needs of its players.

[Pepper.3901]

@"Sviel.7493" said:There's a thread on the Guild Wars 2 Reddit currently that asks why non-wvwers don't wvw. It's a gold mine of useful feedback not only for Arenanet, but also for everyone who makes up the wvw community.

One of the themes I keep seeing (and this will not surprise you) is that people have no idea what to do. They don't understand the scoring, don't understand how they may contribute to the scoring and don't know where to find the action.

Part of this problem can only be solved by Anet. If memory serves, sPvP gets a much more detailed introduction than WvW. I went into it knowing exactly what to do and what actions to take to create desirable results. It was just a matter of whether or not I could pull it off. On Anet's side, they have made some improvements like showing how many points some things generate if you're in the area. If someone plays for a long time, they can likely figure out the basics. Unfortunately, they don't tell people this upfront. On ABL/EBG, there's an NPC that gives you an overview of some game aspects. On DBL, at the time I last entered the Citadel, no such NPC existed. If anyone is on Red team currently, can you let me know if it was ever added? Update: Confirmed no Tutorial Instructor in RBL Citadel.

The ABL/EBG Tutorial says that towers allow you to control the roads and can be used as a base of operations. The former concept was stressed in DBL while the latter was stressed in ABL. The Instructor later says that Keeps require a significant and sustained effort to take. Thus suggests that Anet at least initially thought sieges wouldn't just be a single zerg push. However, while the tutorial has been updated to reflect the new point values of objectives, it makes no mention of increasing point values when they upgrade. In fact, it makes no mention of structure upgrades at all.

Perhaps to make things more interesting and more informative, allow for an optional, instanced tutorial where a player must:-Capture a camp.-Grab 10 supply from the camp.-Walk to a nearby tower and place the final 10 supply into a siege engine.-Finish off a low-health wall/gate.-Fight the tower lord with NPC allies.

As a continuation or a separate instance, a player can:-Escort the final Yak to a tower to upgrade it from tier 1 to tier 2. Emphasize the visual change in the walls.-Defend the tower from an enemy catapult either by running out and blowing it up or by using a counter treb.-Failing that, defend the tower lord by killing all enemies.-Spend 10 supply repairing the tower's wall.

Tutorials like that would ensure that people would at least have the basic idea of how to do things. In practice, they'd know what actions to take. It would just be a matter of if they could pull it off with other players taking opposite actions.

There also needs to be a more extensive 'You Won!' celebration. Even if it was as simple as a Special Skirmish chest for any Skirmish where you spent 10+ minutes at tier 1+ activity. The rewards would be based on where your server placed, perhaps, and a semi-big deal would be made of it when you click the chest (not immediately upon receipt as that could interrupt gameplay). This should help give people some idea of what they're fighting for. Also, as a replacement for the old PvE bonuses, perhaps give personal or guild PvE buffs based on server placement and player contribution?

---

On the other hand, WvW players usually just say to follow a tag. The newbs dutifully follow a tag (if one exists) and are chastised for their build/class choices and total lack of large combat instincts. If this doesn't cause them to quit, they go on to stomp/get stomped in zerg battles and eventually leave without much idea of what just happened. If they don't leave the game mode completely, they still have no clue what to do if there is no tag and lack the confidence to take any sort of initiative.

Following a tag is nice, but it's not a great first step. It would be better for everyone involved if players first had a reason to want to win, then got on tag. They would be more motivated to improve. Right now, the players who fight for the sake of fights tend to adjust well, join a fighting guild, then lament that WvW isn't just all zerg fights all the time. Players who aren't super stoked about large scale combat tend to abandon the game mode entirely.

Thank you. I wish more would teach the simple mechanics of WvW.

Like masters on siege.

Like rams masters using 2 and 3 to get in fastest.

Like looking for all those cute little spaces in keeps where mesmers can hide.

I teach new players a bit about WvW when they ask, but I can quantify it in a simple concept:

Keep your participation up. Easy to do, even with NPC events, even on very busy maps.

[azizul.8469]

i rarely play WvW nowadays because of lag... insane lag during Zerg vs Zerg.... both graphics and network lag.. sometimes i could not rez even after 5 minutes of my death.... the fcuk is that ?

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

[Klypto.1703]

People avoid any game mode that is without charr helicopters. Its been proven by rocket surgeons and brain scientists so you can't argue with this. I mean think of all of the helicopter skins that could be sold or even when they crash they turn into charr tanks the possibilities are endless!

[subversiontwo.7501]

Before I start slugging away at the arguments I want to make it clear that I realize that this thread comes from a good intention, an attempt at being constructive and positive, so respectively my comments are not digs at Sviel or are in any way meant to discourage his attempt at creating a discourse out of this.

With that said, the problem the thread (here and on Reddit) has is that, as most outsiders-looking-in, it tends to mix up where onus lies. If a player throws up a tag or gathers alot of experience in a mode he can be very helpful but he has no form responsibility to do so (while a company do). There are plenty of players on both sides of an argument who tend to confuse what they would want others to do with what others should do.

This can be exemplified with a number of the most important remarks from the original post. I don't want to start a qoute-train so I will qoute them all together as a summary and adress that:

don't know where to find the actionIf someone plays for a long time, they can likely figure out the basicsTutorials: Capture a camp, Grab 10 supply from the camp, Escort a yakand are chastised for their build/class choicesIf they don't leave the game mode completely, they still have no clue what to do if there is no tag and lack the confidence to take any sort of initiative.Players who aren't super stoked about large scale combat tend to abandon the game mode entirely.

Now, most people I know they simply joined the map with a couple of friends and attacked things they could attack while trying to escape the things that could attack them. That's how I started and how most WvW players did. It wasn't learnt in WvW. We can help players but we can't coddle them into having no form of responsibility for themselves or being able to fit into any form of normal interaction. On a busy night the action is as easy to find as to stepping out of the starting area. It is not uncommon for there to be things to do already at the first stop on the way into your map (ie., the spawn tower). It is not hard to find action at a time when other normal players play. Saying that a newcomer's demand on action is hard to find is just pandering to fools (an experienced player's demand on action may be another thing).

That also means that figuring out the basics does not take a long time. Most people can guess them before entering the map or playing the game. It goes back to the comment about how people first started playing WvW. They did not learn WvW in WvW, they could literally see it the second they entered. For that reason, there's little need for tutorials on taking a camp - it is as easy as going there and attacking the things you can attack around it and there is no need to have any different tutorials for capture points or escorting in WvW than there is in PvE. If you've made it out of the starting zones in the game you have already captured zones and escorted NPC's.

Classes and builds is more of a clouded topic but the basics of it is similarily down to simple deduction. There are classes that fit smaller or larger scale better and for most classes you can figure that out by simply looking at the class. You don't need WvW to grasp the basics of it, you don't even need GW2. Classes are designed with that in mind. Classes fit for a standing army tend to work in a standing army. It's not a WvW thing or a GW2 thing. It is a computer games thing or being a student of history thing. Albeit, in most cases, not all. So while some confusion is allowed (and players can be at fault for not dealing with the confusion in a respectable manner), claiming that there is no way to make an educated guess before you enter the mode is, again, pandering to fools.

The real issue here is the lack of confidence and initiative. As noted at the top: Players in WvW usually came in here with a couple of friends and just played. They did not need to understand score, supplies, siege or tags to go whack at some targets to get some loot (and kickstart their pip-generation). Camps have no walls thus require no siege and most people at small scale do not bother with wall-protected targets even if they know how to. You can learn all that other stuff later, and while attacking an NPC or a player is more basic than following a tag, understanding score, supplies, siege and walled objectives is usually more difficult than following a tag (on a decent class). It is way easier to deduce that a support-oriented class in military armor fits into an army than it is to put sufficent supplies into a catapult.

This is also why so many experienced players suggest people to join a tag instead of taking their own initiative. If someone asks they simply assume that the player is unable to take initiative. Otherwise there isn't much point to the question, is there? If you and two friends join a map, go to explore and understand that you can face opposing players, you do not tend to ask. I did not ask when I first started. I simply did, with a couple of friends, from levelling up. Joining a tag is a perfectly fine option when you lack the confidence, initiative or friends to go out to explore the map and hit stuff you can hit. It is also a perfectly fine second step from when you want to move from guards, dolyaks, camps and the odd hostile player to something different because the tags regularily take supplies, towers, keeps and large hostile player groups. The tag will teach you that both by simply observing the people you play with and by outright telling you. See, it makes sense, right?

Finally, rewards, people keep bring it up. It is the most difficult topic and I can understand why it is the most difficult to understand if you come into the game mode from another game mode. Why? It is politics. See, for the past 6 years Anet have been unable to balance how scoring works in WvW. Score is unfair and have always been. That is why most WvW players do not stress rewards for winning because the people who "win" does not necessarily win. It is simply a bad choice to introduce more rewards in such a situation.

That is why we got pips, which are not winning- or contribution based but rather participation based. You simply have to do something and you get them. However, they too are restricted by politics. See, WvW ranks have been here for 6 years. However, they too have always been grossly imbalanced. The things certain classes do have contributed to rank and things other classes do have not. Thus, the highest-level rewards have to be very hard to obtain otherwise Anet risk to trample on players who have played WvW alot for alot of years. They have grinded their hearts out for years and complained to Anet for years about the lack of WvW rewards to get something like the Sublime set - so politics took over when Anet introduced them, with their unlock being put at some median between the most starry-eyed newcommer and the most grizzled veteran (of a high-scoring class), ie., rank 2k being between rank 0 and rank 5k. There are still alot of veteran (as in, release-day veteran) players who have not unlocked those rewards yet so showing some understanding for that in all our wishes to get something fancy comes a long way in terms of respect. There are politics for a reason even if they don't necessary make lesser but still appealing, personal, participation-based rewards on the way impossible.

With all that jibber-jabber said, here is my simple-step guide to learning WvW:

1. Join a map with a few friends, explore and whack stuff
2. When you are bored of exploring and whacking (NPC's, players, camps): Join a tag and adapt, it can suck or be fun but you learn supplies, score etc.
3. When you are bored of the basic classes, builds and demands of the tag you know the mode well enough to do everything on your own - then you won't need the tag to take towers or keeps, sabotage opponents' efforts or even fight large groups. You can do it with your own friends again and with enough friends as a guild. By then you may be interested in duelling other players or guilds or using your guild to dominate all opponents on the map (or tagging up yourself). Then you have reached the WvW endgame. It may take a month or two.

That also means that the last part of the quote ends up missing the mark because the most experienced players generally don't follow a tag or play large scale gameplay as their main form of content in WvW. The most experienced players tend to play in small groups with friends, then do larger events with their guild and only really end up in large groups if their guild ends up leading that (and/or leading or taking up other leadership positions in an open group) on occassion. The most experienced players often do what they first did when they entered the map. Isn't that beautiful?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is no rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

[Klipso.8653]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Yeah, you can upgrade either the regular ascended or mistforged to legendary.

The regular one doesn't require rank, only the mistforged does (because it's glowy or something) but the forge recipe won't care which one you use.

They recently changed some of the pip reward chests to give tokens that let you buy grandmaster chests once you have 10 of them (I think it's 2 per week? Could be wrong) but you can choose whichever grandmaster mark you need out of them

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Klipso.8653 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Yeah, you can upgrade either the regular ascended or mistforged to legendary.

The regular one doesn't require rank, only the mistforged does (because it's glowy or something) but the forge recipe won't care which one you use.

They recently changed some of the pip reward chests to give tokens that let you buy grandmaster chests once you have 10 of them (I think it's 2 per week? Could be wrong) but you can choose whichever grandmaster mark you need out of them

Should probably write this down somewhere

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Grandmaster tokens are craftable - they are insignias, that's all.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Grandmaster tokens are craftable - it is literally insignias.

Didn't say it was a bad thing. Just pointing out the difference.

So... Really, its probably easier ( read that as less frustrating) to get WvW legendary armor, than the PvE if you don't mind waiting an additional 2-5 weeks. Outside the minor weirdness like not leaving till your points are finished compiling.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Grandmaster tokens are craftable - it is literally insignias.

Didn't say it was a bad thing. Just pointing out the difference.

So... Really, its probably easier ( read that as less frustrating) to get WvW legendary armor, than the PvE if you don't mind waiting an additional 2-5 weeks. Outside the minor weirdness like not leaving till your points are finished compiling.

Yep, pretty much.

The pips ticking on is weird, but dealing with it is as simple as joining the Obsidian Sanctum map and then minimizing the game. Pips will tick if you get disconnected but not if you disconnect and on OS you will usually not attract the ire of other players by creating a queue (and thus map imbalance).

Hopefully Anet realizes the issue soon and just let you cash out the active pips when disconnecting or whatever.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Grandmaster tokens are craftable - it is literally insignias.

Didn't say it was a bad thing. Just pointing out the difference.

So... Really, its probably easier ( read that as less frustrating) to get WvW legendary armor, than the PvE if you don't mind waiting an additional 2-5 weeks. Outside the minor weirdness like not leaving till your points are finished compiling.

Yep, pretty much.

The pips ticking on is weird, but dealing with it is as simple as joining the Obsidian Sanctum map and then minimizing the game. Pips will tick if you get disconnected but not if you disconnect and on OS you will usually not attract the ire of other players by creating a queue (and thus map imbalance).

Hopefully Anet realizes the issue soon and just let you cash out the active pips when disconnecting or whatever.

Quick question. Is there an ubspoken rule in the sanctum to not attack otger players? Ive oy been in there once since launch. I kinda feel like a jerk for using the traps and attacking people running through the puzzle. Always seems like Im the one instagating.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Klipso.8653 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Yeah, you can upgrade either the regular ascended or mistforged to legendary.

The regular one doesn't require rank, only the mistforged does (because it's glowy or something) but the forge recipe won't care which one you use.

They recently changed some of the pip reward chests to give tokens that let you buy grandmaster chests once you have 10 of them (I think it's 2 per week? Could be wrong) but you can choose whichever grandmaster mark you need out of them

You get one token in the last chest of Bronze, Gold and Silver. It requires 10 tokens for 1 mark.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@coro.3176 said:I don't get why people care so much about the rewards. What do you even get out of it? A few armour and weapon skins? hundreds of blues and greens to be salvaged into sigils taking up space in your inventory? Literal pennies worth of imaginary currency? If it's 5, 10, 50% less efficient than any other part of the game, it's still the same garbage items filling up your bags.

If you just play for fun - especially on an outnumbered map - you'll get your pips for the week and have your legendary set within some number of months. It's easier than scheduling raids by far.

But hey, if it'll get people interested, by all means increase the rewards. As a primarily WvW player, it means nothing to me.

Well, the rewards aren't well known. And some of the better rewards are lack luster compared to PvE

WvW legendary armor takes roughly 25 weeks to get a full set conpared to the 20 for raiding.

But you need rank 1300+

Raiding is currently the fastest way to get ascended gear and legendary armor that actually looks legendary.

The only real benefit is if you despise raiding, the raiding community, or Dont want to deal with PUGs, then this is the only option.

There is

no

rank requirement for legendary armor from WvW

From a google search. Keep in mind there are no guides. You need to get the skins for the triumphant hero from the reward track. And purchase the armor from the vendor which is apparently locked behind a rank requirement. Or at least the mistforged version anyways

Took me another ten minutes to track down that you only need the non ranked ascended armor after you mentioned it. But grand master tokens are required.

Ya you can either of the ascended armor sets to make the legendary armor so rank isn’t an issue there.

[Zaraki.5784]

Why? I can only speak for myself but the main reason is that the whole population of my server go for PPK while i hate it and I would like to only PPT.Edit: No, changing server is not an option because I don't want to spend gems for that.

[Sviel.7493]

@"subversiontwo.7501"You said it best here: "The real issue here is the lack of confidence and initiative. "

I'm not proposing a tutorial because people don't know anything--I fully expect that they will know how to fight baddies and cap rings. Rather, the tutorial weaves all the things they do know (and perhaps some they don't, like supply) into a full, successful gameplay loop. The idea is to give them the confidence to take initiative.

Following a tag can possibly teach the same things, but it is a much more haphazard way of doing it. It also brings in such unknowable variables as there being a tag present and that tag being open to a noob joining and that noob being able to reach the tag. The tag must then do things in a way that they can be recognized for what they are. If they just go straight to a wall and build siege, they skip teaching about supply. Assuming the noob is able to stick around long enough for a camp to be flipped, they may not even touch the supply before it is inhaled by the zerg.

Thus, an easy-to-make, optional tutorial has a well justified cost. It won't be the only way to learn the game mode, but it should make the learning process more consistent and easier to swallow.