deadeye needs nerf.

[Junkpile.7439]

@WJHB.8130 said:

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@WJHB.8130 said:

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@WJHB.8130 said:Run a tank spec. Boom. Problem solved. Either that or increase your situational awareness and get ready to dodge.You can't dodge when there isn't any signs.

There are signs tho. Like the thief that mysteriously disappears behind you. Oh where'd he go? Maybe he's on ur back about to smash you into the mistsLike what signs? Thief can hide in stealth under some bridge whole day and just wait that somebody run pass.

I don't know any thieves that do that but just run aegis and a stun break everywhere...All classes don't have aegis and why you would need stun break? Backstab doesn't stun you anyways.

[WJHB.8130]

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@WJHB.8130 said:

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@WJHB.8130 said:

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@WJHB.8130 said:Run a tank spec. Boom. Problem solved. Either that or increase your situational awareness and get ready to dodge.You can't dodge when there isn't any signs.

There are signs tho. Like the thief that mysteriously disappears behind you. Oh where'd he go? Maybe he's on ur back about to smash you into the mistsLike what signs? Thief can hide in stealth under some bridge whole day and just wait that somebody run pass.

I don't know any thieves that do that but just run aegis and a stun break everywhere...All classes don't have aegis and why you would need stun break? Backstab doesn't stun you anyways.

or some kind of damage mitigation. Sig of stone, endure pain, whatever. Basi venom does though

[SWI.4127]

@Klypto.1703 said:

@SWI.4127 said:2 Deadeyes currently stealthing each other in a T3 tower, and they are literally impossible to catch. What is the counter to this Anet? Maybe a reveal skill will help, oh look there are only 9 revealed skills in the game, and the class I'm playing

doesn't even have access to one

. On top of that, it's even more of a joke because they will just use their 2-charge skill to REMOVE REVEAL, the ONLY counter to stealth. This class is broken. How this even got through testing is baffling.

ALL classes have the access to stealth disruption traps in wvw. As well those nine reveal skills you speak of get half the cool down those charges do and on top of that to make the charges speed up faster than 45 seconds per charge you have to sacrifice a trait line just to do that on rng its not absolute or you use payback which sacrifices the stealth uptime which is clearly balanced vs 20 second recharges or better. The real problem is that players want to just make a tight knit group that cannot be beaten but the thief aspect of just about any mmorpg is that of a counter to that very thing. So you do have access to counter stealth but it is up to you or any other player for that matter when it comes to stealth whether to outplay the thief or to die to them.

Stealth disruptor trap is a complete joke, come on now. Look at how many skills and combos grant stealth, now look at how many revealed skills there are. First of all, Ele and Mes don't even have a reveal skill. Secondly, for 5 out of the 9 reveal skills, you would need at least one of the expansions LOL. The balance between stealth and reveal is completely out-of-whack. That is ignoring the very important point that revealed will just get removed anyway. Deadeyes love to just list all the ways that people can adjust their builds to fight against them. What do the Deadeyes have to adjust to though? Nothing. They'll be using Shadow Meld no matter what.

That brings me to my next point. Playing against a Deadeye requires players to be way too reactive. The onus is on the Deadeye to make the first move. Ignoring the balance implications, it's just flat out boring for everyone but the Deadeye.

[Turk.5460]

@"Zero.3871" said:

if you try to counter DE mobility, you will see DE as thief is one of fastest classes in game. no Chance to counter him by mobility.

• Perma-Stealth DE is quite slow. Everything except Necro can out-run those. Even if it's not perma stealth, if it's not wielding a shortbow (which it won't be), then it is still slower than Holosmith, Mirage/Chrono, and Warriors.

if you try to counter him with range, you will see that 1500 range is one of the greatest ranges in the game. so also no counter by range.

• For that range they either have to be using the skill with the biggest tell in the game, or kneeling (can't move). Also if you are beyond 1000 range and not standing still then many of the shots simply miss or are "out of range." It's one of the buggiest ranges in the game, and certainly not in favor of the DE. Seeing how there is no arc to the projectiles, a good portion of attacks are "obstructed" from seemingly nothing as well.

if you try to counter his invis, yep, no serious reveal skills on other classes but 2 times reveal counter on DE. so no counterplay.

• Briskly walk in the other direction - see bullet 1.

if you try to reflect his DJ, oh DJ cant get blocked. no counterplay.

• See bullet 2. On top of that, for the thousandth time, Death's Judgement has the biggest tell in the game. It has the brightest visual tell and the loudest audio tell.

I don't agree with perma-stealth DE, but it's not as black/white as you think.

[Heartpains.7312]

No offense Turk but I assure you that some deadeyes will actually use rifle 4 to follow the target "even though at some point" they might be using macros to do it perfectly but still...

And the time I was being chased, I was like aagh its deadeye I will just skip fighting and I was mirage using blink, jaunt and sword... and trust me running away wasn't as easy as you are making it and that is as mirage, so good luck running with other classes xD

Short bow is not really needed as long as the deadeye is not one of those who just want to spam their skills and not caring for the initiative.

[Heartpains.7312]

Also sorry to ask this, but is DJ supposed to give 6 stacks of Lead attacks, because I think it is not even supposed to give 1 stack even, if a thief can confirm this for me fast it would be great thank you =)

[kash.9213]

@"Heartpains.7312" said:No offense Turk but I assure you that some deadeyes will actually use rifle 4 to follow the target "even though at some point" they might be using macros to do it perfectly but still...

And the time I was being chased, I was like aagh its deadeye I will just skip fighting and I was mirage using blink, jaunt and sword... and trust me running away wasn't as easy as you are making it and that is as mirage, so good luck running with other classes xD

Short bow is not really needed as long as the deadeye is not one of those who just want to spam their skills and not caring for the initiative.

No need for macros or about face, you can get used to quick camera pan and using rifle 4 kind of like Withdraw untargeted. That costs Initiative though, with Trickery I try to keep to two staggered Death's Retreat for map travel and hold on to the third for whatever and even then I'm asking to face a quick turn around and burst. Untargeted Death's Retreat will still stack Lead Attacks but again that's using up Initiative.

[Turk.5460]

@"Heartpains.7312" said:No offense Turk but I assure you that some deadeyes will actually use rifle 4 to follow the target "even though at some point" they might be using macros to do it perfectly but still...

And the time I was being chased, I was like aagh its deadeye I will just skip fighting and I was mirage using blink, jaunt and sword... and trust me running away wasn't as easy as you are making it and that is as mirage, so good luck running with other classes xD

Short bow is not really needed as long as the deadeye is not one of those who just want to spam their skills and not caring for the initiative.

That DE would be using Trickery, which wouldn't be one of the perma stealth Thieves, otherwise they would have only been able to do 2 Death's Retreats, leaving them completely starved for initiative and not a threat at that immediate moment.

[Zero.3871]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Zero.3871" said:

if you try to counter DE mobility, you will see DE as thief is one of fastest classes in game. no Chance to counter him by mobility.

• Perma-Stealth DE is quite slow. Everything except Necro can out-run those. Even if it's not perma stealth, if it's not wielding a shortbow (which it won't be), then it is still slower than Holosmith, Mirage/Chrono, and Warriors.

if you try to counter him with range, you will see that 1500 range is one of the greatest ranges in the game. so also no counter by range.

• For that range they either have to be using the skill with the biggest tell in the game, or kneeling (can't move). Also if you are beyond 1000 range and
  not standing still
  then many of the shots simply miss or are "out of range." It's one of the buggiest ranges in the game, and certainly not in favor of the DE. Seeing how there is no arc to the projectiles, a good portion of attacks are "obstructed" from seemingly nothing as well.

if you try to counter his invis, yep, no serious reveal skills on other classes but 2 times reveal counter on DE. so no counterplay.

• Briskly walk in the other direction - see bullet 1.

if you try to reflect his DJ, oh DJ cant get blocked. no counterplay.

• See bullet 2. On top of that, for the thousandth time,
  Death's Judgement has the biggest tell in the game. It has the brightest visual tell and the loudest audio tell.

I don't agree with perma-stealth DE, but it's not as black/white as you think.its not important if Dj has huge telling. he immob you before so you cant dodge. also his initiative Regenerates faster than mine Endurance so after 2 dodges he can attack me while i am out of Endurance.

and they can still move while kneeling by porting.

[Heartpains.7312]

Kash, regarding lead attacks I am talking about Death's judgment which is currently giving 6 stacks of lead attacks, this is what I want a thief to check coz I think it is bugged, as it is not suppose to give any stacks of lead attacks.

[Klypto.1703]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:

@SWI.4127 said:2 Deadeyes currently stealthing each other in a T3 tower, and they are literally impossible to catch. What is the counter to this Anet? Maybe a reveal skill will help, oh look there are only 9 revealed skills in the game, and the class I'm playing

doesn't even have access to one

. On top of that, it's even more of a joke because they will just use their 2-charge skill to REMOVE REVEAL, the ONLY counter to stealth. This class is broken. How this even got through testing is baffling.

ALL classes have the access to stealth disruption traps in wvw. As well those nine reveal skills you speak of get half the cool down those charges do and on top of that to make the charges speed up faster than 45 seconds per charge you have to sacrifice a trait line just to do that on rng its not absolute or you use payback which sacrifices the stealth uptime which is clearly balanced vs 20 second recharges or better. The real problem is that players want to just make a tight knit group that cannot be beaten but the thief aspect of just about any mmorpg is that of a counter to that very thing. So you do have access to counter stealth but it is up to you or any other player for that matter when it comes to stealth whether to outplay the thief or to die to them.

Stealth disruptor trap is a complete joke, come on now. Look at how many skills and combos grant stealth, now look at how many revealed skills there are. First of all, Ele and Mes don't even have a reveal skill. Secondly, for 5 out of the 9 reveal skills, you would need at least one of the expansions LOL. The balance between stealth and reveal is completely out-of-whack. That is ignoring the very important point that revealed will just get removed anyway. Deadeyes love to just list all the ways that people can adjust their builds to fight against them. What do the Deadeyes have to adjust to though? Nothing. They'll be using Shadow Meld no matter what.

That brings me to my next point. Playing against a Deadeye requires players to be way too reactive. The onus is on the Deadeye to make the first move. Ignoring the balance implications, it's just flat out boring for everyone but the Deadeye.

Of course there are no spellbreakers in wvw so using sight beyond sight 4 times between two of them with abilities to insta kill any thief isn't a counter balance as just one example of many on how deadeyes can be stopped. So shadow meld can remove it twice with 45 second recharge per charge of it. Sight beyond sight and other reveals like it have a recharge of 20 seconds so even if its just one spellbreaker eventually they can leave a deadeye without any way to stealth by themselves same thing with an engineer, core necro, etc. There is counter balance to everything in this game but not everything is given to every specific class or spec and that is why you have to use strategy and have team comps to fight each other. So there isn't anything out of balance just the lack of using the abilities to counter it. The other funny part is about how there is no risk lol might be what that other guy posted. Try going toe to toe with a warrior and getting hit and then tell me about no risk :)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@"Heartpains.7312" said:Kash, regarding lead attacks I am talking about Death's judgment which is currently giving 6 stacks of lead attacks, this is what I want a thief to check coz I think it is bugged, as it is not suppose to give any stacks of lead attacks.

That's a bug, it use to cost 6 initiative when it was kneel #4. There are other stuff anet has not done like the new update to call to arms, they gave it all of them Condi clears but removed the weakness applied to enemy's but left it as "unblockable" ??

[SWI.4127]

@Klypto.1703 said:Sight beyond sight and other reveals like it have a recharge of 20 seconds so even if its just one spellbreaker eventually they can leave a deadeye without any way to stealth by themselves

I think you mean eventually they can not have their 3 seconds of reveal removed. For a brief moment, after switching classes and adjusting my build to counter deadeye, I could actually know their position for 3 seconds! What a counter!

Maybe I'm not stressing this enough. My main problem is it is not fun at all to play against a deadeye. It's a cheese spec that never should have made it past the initial conceptual stage.

[Turk.5460]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:Sight beyond sight and other reveals like it have a recharge of 20 seconds so even if its just one spellbreaker eventually they can leave a deadeye without any way to stealth by themselves

I think you mean eventually they can not have their 3 seconds of reveal removed. For a brief moment, after switching classes and adjusting my build to counter deadeye, I could actually know their position for 3 seconds! What a counter!

Maybe I'm not stressing this enough. My main problem is

it is not fun at all

to play against a deadeye. It's a cheese spec that never should have made it past the initial conceptual stage.

Deadeye as a whole? There are builds beyond perma-stealth...

[Klypto.1703]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:Sight beyond sight and other reveals like it have a recharge of 20 seconds so even if its just one spellbreaker eventually they can leave a deadeye without any way to stealth by themselves

I think you mean eventually they can not have their 3 seconds of reveal removed. For a brief moment, after switching classes and adjusting my build to counter deadeye, I could actually know their position for 3 seconds! What a counter!

Maybe I'm not stressing this enough. My main problem is

it is not fun at all

to play against a deadeye. It's a cheese spec that never should have made it past the initial conceptual stage.

All I can tell you at this point is overcome and adapt. It is what every thief has to do to avoid being one shotted by every other class that has the ability to do that.

[EvilSardine.9635]

Yup. It needs a big nerf. I can't believe Anet gives this class such easy perma stealthing capabilities and the only counter to it (reveal) is CLEARED BY A 2 AMMO COUNT SKILL THAT ALSO STEALTHS THE THIEF. What on earth is Anet thinking? Oh that's right, they don't even play WvW or have to deal with these broken builds.

I ran around with the copy paste build everyone uses and it's so broken it's silly. There is no fun counter play to Deadeye and that's not good for the game.

[kash.9213]

@EvilSardine.9635 said:Yup. It needs a big nerf. I can't believe Anet gives this class such easy perma stealthing capabilities and the only counter to it (reveal) is CLEARED BY A 2 AMMO COUNT SKILL THAT ALSO STEALTHS THE THIEF. What on earth is Anet thinking? Oh that's right, they don't even play WvW or have to deal with these broken builds.

I ran around with the copy paste build everyone uses and it's so broken it's silly. There is no fun counter play to Deadeye and that's not good for the game.

I see devs playing WvW sometimes, they're never thieves much less Deadeye's though. If you want a solution to dodge for stealth then figure out a way for them to revert to original DE but solving the pve dps problem and then when you feel like crying about a DE marking and stalking you while Malice builds up you can save it.

[MidasLegend.3906]

Deleted out of date information 

[Burnfall.9573]

@MyDisLegend.1678 said:If you see the deadeye mark. Dodge. They die pretty quickly as well so immediately just slam a bunch of pressure on them.

Dodge?

[geist.4126]

If you see a deadeye mark and dodge. What do you think happens?1) You get the mark and dodge > You waste a dodge2) You get the mark, wait 2-3 sec and dodge > you waste a dodge3) You get a mark and wait and wait and dodge > you waste a dodge

The mark doesn't mean that the deadeye appears in [ ] timeframe. It just means you got his "F-skill" on you. He doesn't necessarily need to attack you. If you are marked and you are attacked he builds malice and de-marks you he loses his malice.

Same question again: Why dodge?

[oOStaticOo.9467]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"MyDisLegend.1678" said:If you see the deadeye mark. Dodge. They die pretty quickly as well so immediately just slam a bunch of pressure on them.

Dodge?

You know, the "Go To" answer for everything that is OP. I mean, "If you can dodge a wrench........."

[Avengedeath.4671]

I don't usually complain about a certain class but I am getting tired of deadeyes. I can't see them to kill them, I mostly play power reaper. I end up trying to glide away and hide until I am out of combat and can just wp away. no chance of saving/walking yaks to upgrade objectives if a de is around. if I can't escape I just alt f4, too frustrating to try and kill them. does one class really need to be so stealthy? if I happen to hit him once then he should die instantly. so thumbs up, yes nerf de.

[bq pd.2148]

@Avengedeath.4671 said:I don't usually complain about a certain class but I am getting tired of deadeyes. I can't see them to kill them, I mostly play power reaper. I end up trying to glide away and hide until I am out of combat and can just wp away. no chance of saving/walking yaks to upgrade objectives if a de is around. if I can't escape I just alt f4, too frustrating to try and kill them. does one class really need to be so stealthy? if I happen to hit him once then he should die instantly. so thumbs up, yes nerf de.

f12, enter , enter > alt+ f4

[aspirine.6852]

But who would people throw siege on when there is no more deadeye? It really seems to be a hated class when there is at least 5 to 6 sieges thrown onto a killed deadeye. :)

[Riko.9214]

@aspirine.6852 said:But who would people throw siege on when there is no more deadeye? It really seems to be a hated class when there is at least 5 to 6 sieges thrown onto a killed deadeye. :)

The profession is OP against NPC and likeminded. There are always few of those around hence the siege.

That was like that from the beginning though, thief->DD->DE years pass but whining never stops ;)