[Spoilers] Are characters intended to be idiots?

[Ashen.2907]

Just to clarify:

There are visions of the future, in all of which Aurene dies, and in which there is a certain sniper, known to desire Aurene's death, present. The only one (other than Kralkie) present, from what I saw, with clear enmity for Aurene., with a stated intention of seeing her die...and we interpret that as a sign that she should not pay for her crimes and should instead be allowed to participate?

If you have a vision of a someone A being killed and someone B being present, where someone B clearly states their intention to kill someone A, then it is a really bad idea to allow it to happen.

Truly questionable writing IMO. Apparently an attempt to reinforce the necessity for certain Asura to do all of the thinking for our characters because we have the cognitive capacity of the average turnip.

Thanks for making me dislike my character, again, writers.

[Blocki.4931]

She never once mentioned wanting seeing her dead? I don't remember.

And I don't see how the visions play into that at all. She was in them, but she was clearly on our side so I see even less reason to antagonize her

[Ashen.2907]

@Blocki.4931 said:She never once mentioned wanting seeing her dead?

She said that she intended to kill her?

[Boysenberry.1869]

It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!starts drooling

[Blocki.4931]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:She never once mentioned wanting seeing her dead?

She said that she intended to kill her.

In scorn that was gone pretty quickly after we denied her death. She was asking to get killed by us to be honest.

[eduardo.1436]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:She never once mentioned wanting seeing her dead?

She said that she intended to kill her?

She said she was gonna slay the dragon. Balthazar's main mission was to kill Kralkatorrik (to absorb his magic) so it can be inferred that's what Zafirah intended to finish, we also tell her "we both want the same thing" when referring to kill Kralkatorrik, AND when we bring Zafirah to Sun's refuge we mention Aurene, talk about her, and tell Zafirah Aurene might even like her.

[Ferus.3165]

@Ashen.2907 said:Just to clarify:

There are visions of the future, in all of which Aurene dies, and in which there is a certain sniper, known to desire Aurene's death, present. The only one (other than Kralkie) present, from what I saw, with clear enmity for Aurene., with a stated intention of seeing her die...and we interpret that as a sign that she should not pay for her crimes and should instead be allowed to participate?

If you have a vision of a someone A being killed and someone B being present, where someone B clearly states their intention to kill someone A, then it is a really bad idea to allow it to happen.

Truly questionable writing IMO. Apparently an attempt to reinforce the necessity for certain Asura to do all of the thinking for our characters because we have the cognitive capacity of the average turnip.

Thanks for making me dislike my character, again, writers.

the whole ls 4 is just plotholes, ex machinas and bad (character) writing. Don't think to much about it, because not much thought was put into the story to begin with.

[Eliphas.4862]

I am just waiting for that certain Asura to die already.Also I agree, I think our character gets dumber by the minute.

[Blocki.4931]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Just to clarify:

There are visions of the future, in all of which Aurene dies, and in which there is a certain sniper, known to desire Aurene's death, present. The only one (other than Kralkie) present, from what I saw, with clear enmity for Aurene., with a stated intention of seeing her die...and we interpret that as a sign that she should not pay for her crimes and should instead be allowed to participate?

If you have a vision of a someone A being killed and someone B being present, where someone B clearly states their intention to kill someone A, then it is a really bad idea to allow it to happen.

Truly questionable writing IMO. Apparently an attempt to reinforce the necessity for certain Asura to do all of the thinking for our characters because we have the cognitive capacity of the average turnip.

Thanks for making me dislike my character, again, writers.

the whole ls 4 is just plotholes, ex machinas and bad (character) writing. Don't think to much about it, because not much thought was put into the story to begin with.

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Just to clarify:

There are visions of the future, in all of which Aurene dies, and in which there is a certain sniper, known to desire Aurene's death, present. The only one (other than Kralkie) present, from what I saw, with clear enmity for Aurene., with a stated intention of seeing her die...and we interpret that as a sign that she should not pay for her crimes and should instead be allowed to participate?

If you have a vision of a someone A being killed and someone B being present, where someone B clearly states their intention to kill someone A, then it is a really bad idea to allow it to happen.

Truly questionable writing IMO. Apparently an attempt to reinforce the necessity for certain Asura to do all of the thinking for our characters because we have the cognitive capacity of the average turnip.

Thanks for making me dislike my character, again, writers.

the whole ls 4 is just plotholes, ex machinas and bad (character) writing. Don't think to much about it, because not much thought was put into the story to begin with.

Bring some of them up then? It's obvious there were some plot devices at work at times, but nothing noteworthy.

[Quarktastic.1027]

@Boysenberry.1869 said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

[Dante.1763]

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Boysenberry.1869 said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!

starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.

[Boysenberry.1869]

@Dante.1763 said:That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.Is there a link about the cannon commander being only those races? Also, stories only need to tweak dialog based on race, not change the entire instance. They already tweak dialog based on race. They could just... tweak it better.

[Dante.1763]

@Boysenberry.1869 said:

@Dante.1763 said:That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.Is there a link about the cannon commander being only those races? Also, stories only need to tweak dialog based on race, not change the entire instance. They already tweak dialog based on race. They could just... tweak it better.

No there isnt, but it makes the most sense given some of the instances weve had.The Shining blade mission outright removes the ability for the Commander to be a Charr, as a Charr would never ever bow to a foreign(non Charr) ruler, on top of that they have no unique dialogue for the few missions they have so far gotten. The constant explanations(as if the PC wouldnt understand) and the lack of unique dialogue when dealing with any of Taimis speeches, for Asura players removes that species as well.

The Shining blade instance makes sense for a human commander, a Sylvari could be stretched to fit in that same role due to their over all lack of allegiance to anything but the Pale Tree, its a bit harder to fit a norn into that. So far as i know Sylvari only had unique dialogue during HoT due to Mordremoth but i seem to remember a few instances here and there as well. But the biggest one indicating a Cannon Human Commander is the usage of humans for the vast(if not all) of their trailers. I have yet to see a Charr Commander portrayed in a trailer the main ones in focus are always Human.

[Quarktastic.1027]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@"Boysenberry.1869" said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!

starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.

You wouldn't need 5 different stories, just a few different dialogue options sprinkled here and there. It doesn't all have to be spoken dialogue either. Maybe give Asura characters an option to hack the inquest terminal rather than just kick it.

I understand the logistics of making 5 separate sets of dialogue for 5 races, but I also feel like it severely hurts the replay value of story segments, and breaks a player's immersion when their character says something that's...out of character. In the end, I see it as a cost cutting/time saving measure, so that Arenanet can pump these things out as frequently as possible to keep people coming back to their game and spending money in their gem store.

The personal story starting out differently for each race was great, and quickly turned to mush midway through as every character slowly converged into the homogeneous overpowered goo that is "the commander."

[Randulf.7614]

Randulf....SMASH!!

Puny dragons...

[Ashen.2907]

Thank you all for the response. I do appreciate your input.

For me this chapter (multiple sections of it combined) broke the camel's back. I am going to take a break from the game for a while to see if I can rekindle my interest. Hope to see you all sooner rather than later.

[Soggy Biscuit.9372]

I'm on the same boat as you dude, if Aurene is gonna die. She is my only favorite character at this point and I have only been playing the LS in the hopes of seeing either Taimi or Braham or Marj/Kas die.

[edit] Also, so many "sacrifices" in this game the shock value has been lost. When in trouble, kill something mildly important/players are attached to and the emotional investment they put into it. It's very, very cheap and lazy.

[Lambent.6375]

The commander being a Charr would be rather frighting, ahem, considering their history, and the dragon threat being one of the main reasons they found peace.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@"Boysenberry.1869" said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!

starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.

You wouldn't need 5 different stories, just a few different dialogue options sprinkled here and there. It doesn't all have to be spoken dialogue either. Maybe give Asura characters an option to hack the inquest terminal rather than just kick it.

I understand the logistics of making 5 separate sets of dialogue for 5 races, but I also feel like it severely hurts the replay value of story segments, and breaks a player's immersion when their character says something that's...out of character. In the end, I see it as a cost cutting/time saving measure, so that Arenanet can pump these things out as frequently as possible to keep people coming back to their game and spending money in their gem store.

The personal story starting out differently for each race was great, and quickly turned to mush midway through as every character slowly converged into the homogeneous overpowered goo that is "the commander."

A recent AMA confirmed that this is on purpose. The protagonist is purposefully written like Bella from Twilight, AKA a blank insert for players to impose their feelings on. The last time this issue was brought up, two people ended up being fired over it.

Writing a blank slate is one thing. Writing an incompetent and dumb character is another. But this season is all,

her

, work anyway. /eyerollI think the PC is written more like Winnie the Pooh than like Bella. “Think, think, think, oh no”... it’s clumsy. So I don’t pay attention to what my characters say or do too much, it’s not that deep, I enjoy the story for what it is, and remember it like a ‘highlight’ reel of important events.

Nothing new though, did our characters in Gw1, even have that much character either? I don’t remember them being overly flushed out at all, perhaps even worse then the pc is now.

I didn’t play Gw1.Just try and think of your character like Lakitu Bros in Super Mario 64, and you’ll be fine. (where they act as the cameramen for the player to control during Mario's adventure.)

[Tyson.5160]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@"Boysenberry.1869" said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!

starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.

You wouldn't need 5 different stories, just a few different dialogue options sprinkled here and there. It doesn't all have to be spoken dialogue either. Maybe give Asura characters an option to hack the inquest terminal rather than just kick it.

I understand the logistics of making 5 separate sets of dialogue for 5 races, but I also feel like it severely hurts the replay value of story segments, and breaks a player's immersion when their character says something that's...out of character. In the end, I see it as a cost cutting/time saving measure, so that Arenanet can pump these things out as frequently as possible to keep people coming back to their game and spending money in their gem store.

The personal story starting out differently for each race was great, and quickly turned to mush midway through as every character slowly converged into the homogeneous overpowered goo that is "the commander."

A recent AMA confirmed that this is on purpose. The protagonist is purposefully written like Bella from Twilight, AKA a blank insert for players to impose their feelings on. The last time this issue was brought up, two people ended up being fired over it.

Writing a blank slate is one thing. Writing an incompetent and dumb character is another. But this season is all,

her

, work anyway. /eyerollI think the PC is written more like Winnie the Pooh than like Bella. “Think, think, think, oh no”... it’s clumsy. So I don’t pay attention to what my characters say or do too much, it’s not that deep, I enjoy the story for what it is, and remember it like a ‘highlight’ reel of important events.

Nothing new though, did our characters in Gw1, even have that much character either? I don’t remember them being overly flushed out at all, perhaps even worse then the pc is now.

I didn’t play Gw1.Just try and think of your character like Lakitu Bros in Super Mario 64, and you’ll be fine. (where they act as the cameramen for the player to control during Mario's adventure.)

Check out a woodenpotatoes gw1 video the pc is way worse in terms of character development. They are just along for the ride.

[Zoid.2568]

Our character is cheesy af. We could atleast put her in prison. Best would be to kill her so she can go to the afterlife with her dear Balthazar.

[Neeman Oria.7504]

The way I interpreted it was that as a follower of Balthazar and of war she was basically raised on teachings and an ideology that when a comrade dies you have to find it in yourself to continue to fight. She obviously believed that Balthazar wasn't always bad necessarily, so continued to follow him and even take revenge for the philosophy she was brought up with as to not deny herself even though she admits he fell from grace. I will cite a quote from IRL:

"I have resolved never to start an unjust war but never to end a legitimate one except by defeating my enemies"

When she realizes that the Commander isn't trying to erase the memory of Balthazar and therefor her memories, showing mercy on her after many of her comrades have fallen in a war (in which they were not allowed to be sentimental, foregoing a sense of revenge based on a lover, a friend, etc.) and denying her release (which she may or may not have really wanted, she may have wanted to live after all, and continue the memory of her past). She sees that the Commander isn't the person she thought. She later finds out that his sword acknowledges Aurene, giving her more of a reason to jump on board.

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@"Boysenberry.1869" said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!

starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.

You wouldn't need 5 different stories, just a few different dialogue options sprinkled here and there. It doesn't all have to be spoken dialogue either. Maybe give Asura characters an option to hack the inquest terminal rather than just kick it.

I understand the logistics of making 5 separate sets of dialogue for 5 races, but I also feel like it severely hurts the replay value of story segments, and breaks a player's immersion when their character says something that's...out of character. In the end, I see it as a cost cutting/time saving measure, so that Arenanet can pump these things out as frequently as possible to keep people coming back to their game and spending money in their gem store.

The personal story starting out differently for each race was great, and quickly turned to mush midway through as every character slowly converged into the homogeneous overpowered goo that is "the commander."

A recent AMA confirmed that this is on purpose. The protagonist is purposefully written like Bella from Twilight, AKA a blank insert for players to impose their feelings on. The last time this issue was brought up, two people ended up being fired over it.

Writing a blank slate is one thing. Writing an incompetent and dumb character is another. But this season is all,

her

, work anyway. /eyerollI think the PC is written more like Winnie the Pooh than like Bella. “Think, think, think, oh no”... it’s clumsy. So I don’t pay attention to what my characters say or do too much, it’s not that deep, I enjoy the story for what it is, and remember it like a ‘highlight’ reel of important events.

Nothing new though, did our characters in Gw1, even have that much character either? I don’t remember them being overly flushed out at all, perhaps even worse then the pc is now.

I didn’t play Gw1.Just try and think of your character like Lakitu Bros in Super Mario 64, and you’ll be fine. (where they act as the cameramen for the player to control during Mario's adventure.)

Check out a woodenpotatoes gw1 video the pc is way worse in terms of character development. They are just along for the ride.

PC's make or break an RPG. I wonder "What is Guild Wars 2 (ANet) going for in terms of ambiance?" To attract the most players? Check. To promote a healthy experience and not a negative one? Check. But also to entertain. Most player characters in video games never die, they only respawn. Guild Wars 2 basically said: look, you cannot die, that is in the lore.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Boysenberry.1869 said:It's even better when an Asura PC makes very un-Asura-like decisions.

Me Asura! Me smart!

starts drooling

Not all Asura possess genius level intellect, though our characters' current actions and decisions do somewhat conflict with the Asura personal story. You would think, as winners of the Snaff Prize, we wouldn't need Taimi to explain things to us in the same way she explains things to Braham.

That comes from the cannon commander either being Human, Sylvari or Norn. Itd be to hard and way to much work to have 5 completely different stories throughout every single campaign mission for each of the races.

Not to be annoying but there is quite a difference between a cannon commander and a canon commander and you picked the wrong one :) Having said that, I wouldn't mind having cannon to command.

To the OP:

Well, Aurene has that vision with only negative outcomes but it could be something as simple as her sacrifice being required for her ascendance. So basically the jesus concept where death was just a part of his progression to savior of mankind.

[zealex.9410]

The sniper is seen next to aurene as in beside her ready to face kralk. The scene is also in the future meaning that regardless of who that sniper is she will be assisting on in our efforts against kralk.

Also it has to be said that in all the deaths krallatoric is the one killing aurene, not the sniper or anyone else.

Our commander realises mid fight that the sniper was in the visions clearly assisting us and decides based on what aurene showed him to allow the sniper to live. Its been a running theme since vanilla that in order to defeat the dragons ppl must come together.

If it werent for that vision i find the posibility of us killing her to be very likely.

Are you sure the episode makes our character dump?

EDIT: I dont recall the lines from the episode but im sure when the sniper refers to killing the dragon she refers to kralkatoric which batlhazar was hunting in the first place. Iirc she even seems suprised to even learn about aurene when u speak with her in sun's refuge.

[Kodokuna Akuma.9570]

@"Ashen.2907" said:Just to clarify:

There are visions of the future, in all of which Aurene dies, and in which there is a certain sniper, known to desire Aurene's death, present. The only one (other than Kralkie) present, from what I saw, with clear enmity for Aurene., with a stated intention of seeing her die...and we interpret that as a sign that she should not pay for her crimes and should instead be allowed to participate?

If you have a vision of a someone A being killed and someone B being present, where someone B clearly states their intention to kill someone A, then it is a really bad idea to allow it to happen.

Right, lets just take this time to think about this shall we?

Aurene had visions of multiple futures, not all futures, specificly ones where she died in.What was seen was that this character for unknown motives was willing to help aurene in the defeat of kralk and "save" tyria. This right here could be a strong show of character for her, willing to stand together to fight against the dragon to seemingly protect takes strength of will and courage ;pbasicly the vision GAVE the commander reasons to spare her not the reverse, she wasnt just some random frenzied preist but someone who could be an ally and through the encounter you realise that she has alot of depth to her actions and emotions.

Take the reverse, if serveral of them futures she wasnt present, and yet she still died. turning her away or killing her could of locked in them futures so to speak.Also in none of them visions was it shown the sniper to be hostile, if you catch several of them it actually shows her dying BESIDE aurene, as in they fought together till the last moment and died "side by side".

Truly questionable writing IMO. Apparently an attempt to reinforce the necessity for certain Asura to do all of the thinking for our characters because we have the cognitive capacity of the average turnip.

Thanks for making me dislike my character, again, writers.

If you want your characters to feel stupid go play some other MMO's like Blade & Soul, my god the writing there your character is thick as bricks and falls for the most obvious of traps. The commander is in no way stupid, not a genius or even an expert in anything perticular but by no means stupid.