I really like this balance patch, Please keep it up!

[anduriell.6280]

On the opposite side of the general feeling i like this patch a lot. It brings new build possibilities to the ranger thanks to the increased synergy with other weapons and traits.On as side note, now you can see the damage and ferocity buff you have when you apply fury... Did you see that?

• Nerf to Lead the Wind: I agree the swiftness makes no sense there. The "nerf" won't be noticeable by most, although the longbow could benefit from a faster cadence instead the slower. I don't see it as a bad change, just something does not make sense. Swiftness with combo fields servers no purpose to the ranger right now. As side note the piercing in the speargun how would it work? For example skill 3 would cast the pirannas in every target hit?
• Strider Defense. Nice trait change for soulbeast. If you don't know how to use it: 2-2-3 with rage runes. The boost is kinda fun with any set up.
• Honned Axes. I like the changes. Another 8% buff is very welcomed and open the trait to any build using axe in any of the weapon set.
• Two Hand Training. This change was deeply needed. Now he ranger has full control over the fury, and the synergy with remorseless is greater than ever. Easy example: knockdown+WI. More hidden combinations: Hilt Bash + Maul, Path of scars + WI, Protect me! + Maul/WI, prelude lash + Maul (hey you didn't think of that one eh?) . Beastly warden while it is cast after the beast ability is of no use.
• Windborne notes: The idea being the change is very nice, another source of healing. However right now the regeneration application and the amount of healing (161 base) does not justify equip the trait for the healing.
• Ambidexterity: another good change, if you go for condition builds, same as honned axes. I don't use condition builds as i mostly play wvw.

So in general the dev team open a new ways to make use of the traits which is always good.

The only nonsensical changes are Lead the Wind and Windborne notes, because the effects don't bring any utility or synergy with the ranger right now. Keep in mind Healing Spring and Nature Vengeance has an intervals of 2-3s which translated to healing would be around 80hp/sec. Doylak runes or the food brings better healing without sacrificing a traitline.

Of course the Devs may be working in future changes to other traits so the synergy of this changes would be justified, It would be amazing if the Devs decided to review those changes to make them more meaningful . It's that's the case i'm looking forward to those.

[Substance E.4852]

Lead the wind was a flat nerf to appease the WvW roamer crowd.

The pointless swiftness proc is just their way to avoid gutting 1/3 of the trait for no compensation.

As far as being able to notice the change, ya it's noticeable. Not only on the auto but also on the channel of rapid fire as well. Barrage is harder to gauge but I rarely ever finished the channel on that skill anyway in most content.

[Earix.5684]

@"anduriell.6280" said:On the opposite side of the general feeling i like this patch a lot. It brings new build possibilities to the ranger thanks to the increased synergy with other weapons and traits.On as side note, now you can see the damage and ferocity buff you have when you apply fury... Did you see that?

• Nerf to Lead the Wind: I agree the swiftness makes no sense there. The "nerf" won't be noticeable by most, although the longbow could benefit from a faster cadence instead the slower. I don't see it as a bad change, just something does not make sense. Swiftness with combo fields servers no purpose to the ranger right now. As side note the piercing in the speargun how would it work? For example skill 3 would cast the pirannas in every target hit?
• Strider Defense. Nice trait change for soulbeast. If you don't know how to use it: 2-2-3 with rage runes. The boost is kinda fun with any set up.
• Honned Axes. I like the changes. Another 8% buff is very welcomed and open the trait to any build using axe in any of the weapon set.
• Two Hand Training. This change was deeply needed. Now he ranger has full control over the fury, and the synergy with remorseless is greater than ever. Easy example: knockdown+WI. More hidden combinations: Hilt Bash + Maul, Path of scars + WI, Protect me! + Maul/WI, prelude lash + Maul (hey you didn't think of that one eh?) . Beastly warden while it is cast after the beast ability is of no use.
• Windborne notes: The idea being the change is very nice, another source of healing. However right now the regeneration application and the amount of healing (161 base) does not justify equip the trait for the healing.
• Ambidexterity: another good change, if you go for condition builds, same as honned axes. I don't use condition builds as i mostly play wvw.

So in general the dev team open a new ways to make use of the traits which is always good.

The only nonsensical changes are Lead the Wind and Windborne notes, because the effects don't bring any utility or synergy with the ranger right now. Keep in mind Healing Spring and Nature Vengeance has an intervals of 2-3s which translated to healing would be around 80hp/sec. Doylak runes or the food brings better healing without sacrificing a traitline.

Of course the Devs may be working in future changes to other traits so the synergy of this changes would be justified, It would be amazing if the Devs decided to review those changes to make them more meaningful . It's that's the case i'm looking forward to those.

Exactely sums up my personal feeling about this patch. Not as bad as people make it look like on this forum.PS: Windborn Notes seems ok on druid, free extra charge is always welcome

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I agree. Aside from the Lead the Wind change, I'm happy with what they did for Ranger. I think they were definitely a step in the right direction, so props to ANet for this.

Hopefully they see that LtW doesn't really make sense, especially with Longbow being a power weapon. Projectile finisher interaction would make more sense for Shortbow since it is much more likely to use combo fields (traps, torch 5), but the swiftness would still be very random.

It seems like their weapon trait review was half-complete as there are still some traits throughout classes that should be updated to reflect their new philosophy, like staff traits for both Rev (Salvation) and Ranger (Druid). Hopefully the next "full-size" patch will follow up on this.

[shadowpass.4236]

Instead of swiftness, it would be cool if it gave 1s of super speed on a critical hit with longbow.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I was thinking superspeed would be a great interaction for it as well, although it seems like they want the secondary aspect of weapon traits to function even without the specific weapon equipped. Maybe just superspeed on crits with any weapon (with a fair ICD)?

[HeadCrowned.6834]

The issue why this patch is not considered to be good is that Soulbeast actually got a little buff instead of a deserved nerf.

[ChartFish.1308]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:The issue why this patch is not considered to be good is that Soulbeast actually got a little buff instead of a deserved nerf.

Erm more like because traits that hardly ever got used/werenof any importance got buffed. Anyway how would you nerf soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Compared to other classes atm it's not that deserving lol

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:The issue why this patch is not considered to be good is that Soulbeast actually got a little buff instead of a deserved nerf.

Erm more like because traits that hardly ever got used/werenof any importance got buffed. Anyway how would you nerf soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Compared to other classes atm it's not that deserving lol

Soulbeast is unkillable in 1v1 and easily tanks 1v2. There are enough possibilities to nerf Soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Think of fresh reinforcement, unflinching fortitude and moa stance/leader of the pack.

[Lazze.9870]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:The issue why this patch is not considered to be good is that Soulbeast actually got a little buff instead of a deserved nerf.

Erm more like because traits that hardly ever got used/werenof any importance got buffed. Anyway how would you nerf soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Compared to other classes atm it's not that deserving lol

Soulbeast is unkillable in 1v1 and easily tanks 1v2. There are enough possibilities to nerf Soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Think of fresh reinforcement, unflinching fortitude and moa stance/leader of the pack.

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

[Lazze.9870]

@anduriell.6280 said:On as side note, now you can see the damage and ferocity buff you have when you apply fury... Did you see that?

You always could.

[ChartFish.1308]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Soulbeast is unkillable in 1v1 and easily tanks 1v2. There are enough possibilities to nerf Soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Think of fresh reinforcement, unflinching fortitude and moa stance/leader of the pack.

Not unkillable, it tanks well and can handle 1v2 for sure. But then so can warrior and weaver. Playing boonbeast some classes can still take you down 1v1 such as power rangers, mirages, deadeyes. Too much pressure to hold up against for long.

Moa stance duration when traited is ridiculous i agree. 15 sec, a bit exessive. It can take a nerf as long as they dont make it another griffon stance.

Whats wrong with unflinching fortiture lmao. It's a 4 sec invuln to power dmg, alright sure, but it has a cast time unless you're previously stunned (aka it can be interrupted), it doesn't give immunity to damaging conditions (aka you can still be loaded by condi classes) and you're still vulnerable to cc.

Cooldown is on the short side but again it is possible to be locked behind a 20 sec petswap cooldown. If your previous pet died youll want to revive it through beastmode so that can add another 10 seconds before you can use it.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Its sad that they avoided the SB trait and the staff trait.Its also very unpleasing that they kept the boring traits boring.Two handed training was always somewhat interesting.Ambidexterity and honed axes was not.The AoE on wintersbite would make it interesting if it wouldn't be the only thing that makes that skill good.

The LB trait should be changed and the ither MS GMs too. They should interact with the minors.

Striders defense is a good change. If they now change poisonmaster to apply poison on cripple it would finally inspire me to use it for my soulbeast.

[Durzlla.6295]

Overall I really liked the changes, however lead the wind just leaves me... confused...

We have so much access to swiftness already that it’s kinda just useless to us, it’s not like we’re guardians or necros who are in desperate need for movement speed.

I think it’d be nice if they either made it give super speed for like 1 or 2s instead, or make it so that it applies swiftness, and if we have swiftness we get super speed instead or something, assuming they want to keep lead the wind giving us move speed.

[shadowpass.4236]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

Spellbreaker and Holosmith are still better side noders than Soulbeast. It doesn't matter if SLB wins 1v1s because against players of equal skill, those duels will end up getting +1'd before one person goes down. However, unlike the other 2 side noders, Soulbeast loses outnumbered fights much more easily.

BIK's build wasn't boon heavy. It had very, very low boon uptime.

Soulbeast isn't meta in PvP. Nerfing it will just put us further down the list of viable classes in competitive play.

[bigo.9037]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

Spellbreaker and Holosmith are still better side noders than Soulbeast. It doesn't matter if SLB wins 1v1s because against players of equal skill, those duels will end up getting +1'd before one person goes down. However, unlike the other 2 side noders, Soulbeast loses outnumbered fights much more easily.

BIK's build wasn't boon heavy. It had very, very low boon uptime.

Soulbeast isn't meta in PvP. Nerfing it will just put us further down the list of viable classes in competitive play.

as far as I'm aware soulbeast is quite meta rn.. I do very well with it in spvp and I know some others who are top 25 with it too..

[bigo.9037]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

Spellbreaker and Holosmith are still better side noders than Soulbeast. It doesn't matter if SLB wins 1v1s because against players of equal skill, those duels will end up getting +1'd before one person goes down. However, unlike the other 2 side noders, Soulbeast loses outnumbered fights much more easily.

BIK's build wasn't boon heavy. It had very, very low boon uptime.

Soulbeast isn't meta in PvP. Nerfing it will just put us further down the list of viable classes in competitive play.

also if you're fighting a spellbreaker on point they will1 lose the fight (faster in spvp cus their endure pain doesn't last very long )and 2 lose the point most likely cus they can't win melee vs soulbeast.

every time a spellbreaker tries to fight me on point they lose unless I make some really stupid mistake.they are usually forced to escape or kite off point. so yea, sure, spellbreaker might live a bit longer in 1v2 but they will lose the fight and the point in the process.

[CETheLucid.3964]

I'm not even that mad about the 10% from Lead the Wind. It's just swiftness is such an awkward choice given ranger already has so much access to swiftness already. Why not might? Fury? Or to be in line with the name, a second or two of superspeed? That would help immensely in repositioning and jockeying between melee and range.

You're not going to proc it all that often considering projectile finishers are very RNG on almost all of the longbow's skills.

And it would give a reason to try zephyrite runes!

 

[shadowpass.4236]

@bigo.9037 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

Spellbreaker and Holosmith are still better side noders than Soulbeast. It doesn't matter if SLB wins 1v1s because against players of equal skill, those duels will end up getting +1'd before one person goes down. However, unlike the other 2 side noders, Soulbeast loses outnumbered fights much more easily.

BIK's build wasn't boon heavy. It had very, very low boon uptime.

Soulbeast isn't meta in PvP. Nerfing it will just put us further down the list of viable classes in competitive play.

1. as far as I'm aware soulbeast is quite meta rn.. I do very well with it in spvp and I know some others who are top 25 with it too..

2. also if you're fighting a spellbreaker on point they will1 lose the fight (faster in spvp cus their endure pain doesn't last very long )and 2 lose the point most likely cus they can't win melee vs soulbeast.

3. every time a spellbreaker tries to fight me on point they lose unless I make some really stupid mistake.

4. they are usually forced to escape or kite off point. so yea, sure, spellbreaker might live a bit longer in 1v2 but they will lose the fight and the point in the process.

1. Holo outclasses Soulbeast in ranked ques. In competitive play, Soulbeast is outclassed by both Holo and Spellbreaker.
2. Again, in competitive play, against equally skilled opponents, yes, the warrior will lose the 1v1 matchup. However, the fight will get plussed before the warrior dies. In this scenario, the warrior has a much better chance at surviving outnumbered than the Soulbeast does.
3. Yes, the warrior shouldn't win the 1v1.
4. Which is perfectly fine. That's what they should do in the 1v2. It doesn't matter if they lose the point, as long as they don't die while getting plussed, they're earning value for their team. On the other hand, a Soulbeast will NOT be able to escape reliably and will end up dying much more often/easily compared to a Spellbreaker.

So, to reiterate, it doesn't matter how good Soulbeast is in 1v1. With competent roamers, you are playing at a disadvantage compared to the other side noders.

---

In order from Best to Worst:

1v1

1. Ranger
2. Holo
3. Warrior

1vX

1. Warrior
2. Holo
3. Ranger

[Faffin.6741]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:The issue why this patch is not considered to be good is that Soulbeast actually got a little buff instead of a deserved nerf.

Erm more like because traits that hardly ever got used/werenof any importance got buffed. Anyway how would you nerf soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Compared to other classes atm it's not that deserving lol

Soulbeast is unkillable in 1v1 and easily tanks 1v2. There are enough possibilities to nerf Soulbeast without hurting core ranger. Think of fresh reinforcement, unflinching fortitude and moa stance/leader of the pack.

Vs druid? No. This is just not true for several other classes too.

[jcbroe.4329]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Instead of swiftness, it would be cool if it gave 1s of super speed on a critical hit with longbow.

Design wise I think our heads might be in the similar place, but go a step further with me if you will; each GM is given a unique way to refresh Opening Strike and adds a unique effect to opening strike.

Superspeed on LB would be fantastic. Combine the concepts? Maybe something like "Gaining Stealth resets Opening Strikes. Consuming Opening Strikes applies Superspeed and Quickness to the Player and Pet." On top of the LB specific stuff of course (or just tack those back onto a Master Trait, like Farsighted).

That would leave the last GM with being reworked to something like "deal extra damage to foes with an impairing condition. Applying an impairing condition refreshes Opening Strike (ICD). Consuming Opening Strikes grants a damage bonus for x amount of time." That's neither here nor there though, just wanted to round out my suggestions.

[PaRaPhReNiA.8763]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

Spellbreaker and Holosmith are still better side noders than Soulbeast. It doesn't matter if SLB wins 1v1s because against players of equal skill, those duels will end up getting +1'd before one person goes down. However, unlike the other 2 side noders, Soulbeast loses outnumbered fights much more easily. Mit

BIK's build wasn't boon heavy. It had very, very low boon uptime.

Soulbeast isn't meta in PvP. Nerfing it will just put us further down the list of viable classes in competitive play.

Boonbeast, when played correctly, beats or at least stales all other builds.. only scourge reks boonbeast ... Trust me i know what im talking about! Dying in 1v2 only happens If u fail to see it coming or the node doesnt allow much kiting. U also die vs 2 dps builds but so does every build, even sb and holo... Imo its the best side noder but it might be a little bit harder to play correctly, thats the reason we dont See it dominate yet... Just my 2 cents

[Lazze.9870]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Moa stance had a ridiculous buff way back that they could have toned down slightly. Fresh reinforcement has the same issue with boon spam that we have seen earlier, could also get a shave. But that's shaving.

But ye, keep moaning about those "deserved nerfs" and see Anet nerf some core ranger stuff. Seen that before, way too many times. At the cost of a overhyped soulboon build? Geez. Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new.

This is such a useless comment.How is a build overhyped even. It is the best side node dueler there is atm, and shouldn't lose any 1v1. There are many ways to nerf soulbeast while leaving core ranger intact. ''Boon heavy soulbeast builds aren't even new''. So? Biks soulbeast build for example was trash but still boon heavy. We talk about meta builds in pvp here, and the current meta build should get some nerfs.

Speak for yourself, you're full of it. Especially your first comment in this thread.You're literally overhyping it, and then asking me how a build is overhyped. Duh. Unkillable has a pretty heavy weight to it.

Every time they try to nerf something the way you're asking for, it hits the core ranger. Started with Moment of clarity because of druid dazes, and so they kept going before they finally decided to gut druid instead. That was my point. They're not gonna do anything with Moa Stance or Fresh Reinforcement, they're gonna do something with core ranger because people like you complain about a build that is hardly worth complaining about.

[Lazze.9870]

@"CETheLucid.3964" said:I'm not even that mad about the 10% from Lead the Wind. It's just swiftness is such an awkward choice given ranger already has so much access to swiftness already. Why not might? Fury? Or to be in line with the name, a second or two of superspeed? That would help immensely in repositioning and jockeying between melee and range.

You're not going to proc it all that often considering projectile finishers are very RNG on almost all of the longbow's skills.

And it would give a reason to try zephyrite runes!

 

This, really. Swiftness and regen are the go to "we don't know what to give ranger" boons.Windborne Notes didn't make any sense with regen either, changes over time just kinda slotted it into an okay spot. But it's still tied to a weapon with offensive boons, an unblockable and a decent damage dealing attack with vuln.