The Crucible of Aurene's Vision (spoilers)

[Ayakaru.6583]

I'm assuming by now everyone'd to have seen it, but a spoilertag nonetheless.

I have two questions regarding Aurene's vision.Of course, they won't absolute (or factual) answers, but depending on how you look at them, the story can change.

firstly, Aurene's experience of the vision. Like, in various ways the vision can be a visual vision, but also an experience.Did she only foresee the failures (deaths), against kralkatorrik. or did she also experience them.I can imagine if you experience your own death like 50 times in a row, you flip out.if such is the case, it brings me to my second point

did we see all possible futures?I mean, of course not, it's a game, it'll have a happy ending, that much we know.So, did aurene break off the visions before we saw the 'winning' future.or were did not enough pawns on our board in order to generate that 'winning' future?

I myself am leaning towards the "experiencing visions" as they make the visions themselves more impactful. And the crisis of aurene more understandable.As for the latter, I lean towards the "we're still missing pawns" in order to generate the winning future. But given we only have 2 more episodes, I wonder what kind of allies or tools we might still reproduce in order to get to that winning future.Unless..

of course

a big unless

LWS4 ends with a tragedy

and season 5 is a gonna be very dark and bitter

[Randulf.7614]

"we're in the endgame now.."

Seriously though, the assumption is still that this season will end the arc of Kralk and whilst that is likely, I remain unconvinced they will use a LS arc as an appropriate place to finish off an ED for good.

Will they kill off Aurene? Really don't think so. I think she has been a poor addition to the story and I have no issue with her being thrown out, but it doesn't really make much sense to do so given her story has been omnipresent since LS2 and is still building.

I will be shocked for there not to be 1 or 2 major deaths, it simply has to happen in a fight against such a Being, but it wont be Aurene. The futures foreseen are possibilities and all outcomes wont have been shown. Rumours and speculation has arisen over the last couple of weeks of Dwarven involvement, either passively or directly (if the latter is even possible).

[Ashantara.8731]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:a big unless

LWS4 ends with a tragedy

and season 5 is a gonna be very dark and bitter

LWS4 can't end with Aurene's death as there would be no one else to replace Kralkatorrik, and we cannot kill another elder dragon for that would mean the end of the world.

[Poormany.4507]

I really hope they wrap up the Kralk storyline this season or next. I'm kind of getting tired of chasing Kralk from one place to the next like we've been doing since PoF. I'm thinking there will be a transfer of power from Kralk to Aurene using something we find or make in the next few episodes, but something goes wrong during the transfer, leading to a new story direction.

[Pifil.5193]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:a big unless

LWS4 ends with a tragedy

and season 5 is a gonna be very dark and bitter

LWS4

can't

end with Aurene's death as there would be no one else to replace Kralkatorrik, and we cannot kill another elder dragon for that would mean the end of the world.

Ah, we can't kill another elder dragon that's on Tyria because the release of magic would destroy Tyria, but can we kill an elder dragon in the mists without destroying Tyria?

[Ashantara.8731]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:LWS4

can't

end with Aurene's death as there would be no one else to replace Kralkatorrik, and we cannot kill another elder dragon for that would mean the end of the world.

Ah, we can't kill another elder dragon that's on Tyria because the release of magic would destroy Tyria, but can we kill an elder dragon in the mists without destroying Tyria?

The concept is that that Elder Dragon's magic is required on Tyria. Regardless of where we kill Kralkatorrik, its magic must endure or else the unbalance will lead to the end of the world. Therefore, it must be contained by someone else, and since we don't have additional options, that someone has to be Aurene. ;)

[Michram.6853]

All of the signs lead us to have a confrontation with Kralkatorrik.

Snaff and Eir were such in hurry to inform us about Kralk, and they wanted us to fight against him "NOW", that makes me think Episode 5 will already be a beginning of this war, like we will face him in Episode 5, but it will lead to a cliffhanger.

Also I'm surprised we will go to find some informations about Glint's plans now, like... Kralk is tearing the reality apart, he can appear wherever he wants, and then Caithe acts like she drunk some Felix Felicis (a potion from Harry Potter that gives you the pure luck) and she just wants to go to some ruins of dwarves and maybe they know something...

They better have something big to not make Caithe pointless again, because she is a very interesting character, but the writing sometimes doesnt reflect that.

So if they introduced Caithe (which makes a lot of sense, because she was the only one that stayed after Glint's death and wanted to grab some data and we know she likes asking questions - as Malyck pointed out) so they must have some deep reasons to give her some screen time.

I personally think we will defeat Kralk in Season 4, but as usual the question is: What consequences will his death create?

I personally think Lyssa will come out of the shadows and the Deep Sea Dragon will make his move.

And they will be our next targets. But I don't know.

Aurene's vision showed we cannot defeat Kralkatorrik with Tyrian forces only. I predict we'll make a contact with the Astral Creatures and contact with their possible leader the Harbinger of Woe.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@"Arden.7480" said:All of the signs lead us to have a confrontation with Kralkatorrik.

Snaff and Eir were such in hurry to inform us about Kralk, and they wanted us to fight against him "NOW", that makes me think Episode 5 will already be a beginning of this war, like we will face him in Episode 5, but it will lead to a cliffhanger.

Also I'm surprised we will go to find some informations about Glint's plans now, like... Kralk is tearing the reality apart, he can appear wherever he wants, and then Caithe acts like she drunk some Felix Felicis (a potion from Harry Potter that gives you the pure luck) and she just wants to go to some ruins of dwarves and maybe they know something...

They better have something big to not make Caithe pointless again, because she is a very interesting character, but the writing sometimes doesnt reflect that.

So if they introduced Caithe (which makes a lot of sense, because she was the only one that stayed after Glint's death and wanted to grab some data and we know she likes asking questions - as Malyck pointed out) so they must have some deep reasons to give her some screen time.

I personally think we will defeat Kralk in Season 4, but as usual the question is: What consequences will his death create?

I personally think Lyssa will come out of the shadows and the Deep Sea Dragon will make his move.

And they will be our next targets. But I don't know.

Aurene's vision showed we cannot defeat Kralkatorrik with Tyrian forces only. I predict we'll make a contact with the Astral Creatures and contact with their possible leader the Harbinger of Woe.

That dwarven thing is interesting.But what could they possibly have that Glint didn’t already know about?‘Another’ piece of kralkatorrik that can hurt him? Another egg?Whatever knowledge or item they have that dan potentially threaten kralkatorrik, Glint didn’t know.So the most logical conclusion is they have nothing.

I do think we will defeat him, maybe just put him back to sleep if not.

As for the resources we have.. well.. i reallydont know.I am (kinda) worried that the anet wrote themselves into a corner and will deux ex machina something to beat kralkatorrik with.

[Palador.2170]

We can't defeat Kralk right now, I think we've been shown that clearly enough. But... we don't really need to do that, do we? It was by accident, but we did put two of the other dragons back to sleep for a time. That shows it's possible to weaken one, IF you have access to its weakness and a way to drain the magic out of it. Aurine is both of those things, though she may need some help.

So, I think we're going to do something to buy us some time, and then figure out how to deal with him for good in Season 5.

[Thobek.1730]

@Poormany.4507 said:I really hope they wrap up the Kralk storyline this season or next. I'm kind of getting tired of chasing Kralk from one place to the next like we've been doing since PoF.

I was just thinking about this. Who are the main antagonists in the GW2 lore? Gods? Dragons? Joko? Mursaat, who else? When they do wrap up this story arc involving Kralk where does the story go from there? Who or what will be the next global threat? I only ask because I didn't play GW1 or have read any of the books, I get all my information purely from GW2.

Personally I would like to see Demons as the next arc (perhaps that would mean a bunch of new creatures, new models and in varying sizes). Perhaps the mists are unstable and portals or rift tears open up. At first its just seems like an unorganized random occurrences but as the story progresses we are hinted on a darker more powerful force behind it all. You could have a new cult of demon worshipers to deal with (bit like Chaos in the Warhammer universe) where important characters are given 'gifts' from the demons and are altered physically.

I've never done the Bastion of the Penitent Raid but I've seen the designs for Samarog and Deimos (cutscenes) and I think there is huge potential for more of this.

[Sita Droowan.5983]

Well talking about the end of that chapter here. I`d like to ask the guys who built that tale: Did you ever think about teenagers, who play that game as well or look over mummy´s and daddy´s shoulder and see the end of Aurene? I had a 14 year old girl crying for about half an hour and couldn´t do anything about it. And that´s especially cruel, when the kids are part of the family who raised the little - so very cute - dragon.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Sita Droowan.5983" said:Well talking about the end of that chapter here. I`d like to ask the guys who built that tale: Did you ever think about teenagers, who play that game as well or look over mummy´s and daddy´s shoulder and see the end of Aurene? I had a 14 year old girl crying for about half an hour and couldn´t do anything about it. And that´s especially cruel, when the kids are part of the family who raised the little - so very cute - dragon.

Even adults cried. 14 isn't an age where this turn of events should be considered "dangerous to a teen's psyche" (of course, nozt all 14-year olds are at the same emotional development stage). Fact is that sad things happen in literature all the time, even in teen novels. Characters died in the Harry Potter novels and movies, and those are not meant for adults only, and there were other rather unpleasant and scary things going on as well. Your girl will be fine.

If she was half that age, then I would be worried, because the game has a PG rating of 12+ for a reason and is not meant to be played by kids. Crying over a fictional character's death is absolutely normal IMO, even feeling heartbroken for a while - it can affect anyone, regardless of their age. I doubt this will result in a permanent trauma, though.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Sita Droowan.5983 said:Well talking about the end of that chapter here. I`d like to ask the guys who built that tale: Did you ever think about teenagers, who play that game as well or look over mummy´s and daddy´s shoulder and see the end of Aurene? I had a 14 year old girl crying for about half an hour and couldn´t do anything about it. And that´s especially cruel, when the kids are part of the family who raised the little - so very cute - dragon.

This is a game where you kill things. The only difference is that people had a personal attachment on the thing that died. Really no different than when Joko died (again).

[Orion Templar.4589]

@Ashantara.8731 said:The concept is that that Elder Dragon's magic is required on Tyria. Regardless of where we kill Kralkatorrik, its magic must endure or else the unbalance will lead to the end of the world. Therefore, it must be contained by someone else, and since we don't have additional options, that someone has to be Aurene. ;)

We could plan to absorb it ourselves and then at the last second Kormir could jump in and absorb it for us. B)

[Ashantara.8731]

@Orion Templar.4589 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:The concept is that that Elder Dragon's magic is required

on

Tyria. Regardless of

where

we kill Kralkatorrik, its magic must endure or else the unbalance will lead to the end of the world. Therefore, it must be contained by someone else, and since we don't have additional options, that someone has to be Aurene. ;)

We could plan to absorb it ourselves and then at the last second Kormir could jump in and absorb it for us. B)

LOL!! :3 Now there's an idea! Hey, we could actually pull a Kormir ourselves, no? :p

[Ayrilana.1396]

So the problem is that there’s just too much of it in the world. Maybe Taimi find a way to contain the excess and send it off the planet or just get rid of it entirely. I’m not sure how much of it used to be contained in the bloodstone but the world didn’t appear to end when it was contained. Would also have the effect of starving the dragons. Probably would give another use for that reforged shadowstone.

[Malediktus.9250]

I hope Kralkatorrik will win, i prefer unhappy endings

[Bast.7253]

One interesting thing to note about her visions in A Star to Guide us is not only the fact that she isn't branded when she's impaled in this episode like she was in the visions, but also... in the visions...

You notice the scenery they're at changes each time. Not only the characters around her and her allies, but where the fight takes place. They're on the same structured cliffside with Kralk looming in a valley, but in one she's standing in grass on the cliffside, another she's on a snowy platform, another she's on a rocky desert cliff. Why change the environment like that? Granted none of those places appeared to be under a mountain (again? what was the point of making sun's refuge this sanctuary because it's underground and protected?)… but if it was only about which allies she brings to the fight why change the scenery? Just being artistic? To show that for some reason unknown to us she's factoring in not only allies but strategic places to fight him which are all for some reason not appearing to be set in the desert? It just seems odd going back and looking at it. I checked it out to compare the in-game model of this episode to the visions and noticed not only the lack of crystallization but the random scenery changes as well.

And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

OR - the vision is somehow reversed. It always ends with her dying, but the actual final battle does take place in an area resembling one of those in her vision.

Probably just the way the artists chose to paint it, but who knows. Could be significant. It's anyone's guess at this point. I'm probably going to wind up being pissed off by the direction they take and feeling robbed of the one character I was most attached to and they'll just shoehorn Caithe into being the solution to everything because Sylvari are the golden race of Guild Wars 2 and the pale tree just becomes some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds that for some reason people have less of a problem with than Aurene even though she's essentially a freaking city. Don't forget to stop by the trading post and cultural armor vendor on the way to talk to our new Elder Dragon supreme answer to everything who will have just as much potential to be written to trivialize threats as much as Aurene could. Nevermind the fact that Aurene could go off and do her own thing and isn't a playable race's capital city.

Ughhhhhh. That would just be so lame. lol

[Mephu Tahm Jr.1962]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

You notice the scenery they're at changes each time. Not only the characters around her and her allies, but where the fight takes place. They're on the same structured cliffside with Kralk looming in a valley, but in one she's standing in grass on the cliffside, another she's on a snowy platform, another she's on a rocky desert cliff. Why change the environment like that? Granted none of those places appeared to be under a mountain (again? what was the point of making sun's refuge this sanctuary because it's underground and protected?)… but if it was only about which allies she brings to the fight why change the scenery? Just being artistic? To show that for some reason unknown to us she's factoring in not only allies but strategic places to fight him which are all for some reason not appearing to be set in the desert? It just seems odd going back and looking at it. I checked it out to compare the in-game model of this episode to the visions and noticed not only the lack of crystallization but the random scenery changes as well.

I didn't notice, but if that's true, Aurene is calculating by time, if we fought Kralk now, or next season, or next year, would it make a difference? That for me would be the most obvious reason because the vision and the magical power present in her entire lineage is all about dealing with time.

And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

Remember how curious it was when we first visited Glint's lair and her memories state she could not see past her own death - but then when Kralkatorrik gains access to the Mists, Glint sends Snaff and Eir to inform everyone of a further prophesy, which can only mean that when Glint found her way into the Mists, she regained her ability to see into the future - but due to her inability to see Aurene's defeat, I assume it means that that part of the prophetic power was derived directly from Aurene and so her death was the end of that next "segment" of prophesy. It could mean that Kralkatorrik holds the overarching prophesy, or one of the other Elder races like the Dwarves.

One interesting thing to note about her visions in A Star to Guide us is not only the fact that she isn't branded when she's impaled in this episode like she was in the visions, but also... in the visions...

This is interesting, because in the past there has always been a major character that serves as a martyr rather than become a corrupted minion during the main plot. In core it was the Mentor. In HoT it was Trahearne. In PoF it was the player character. In each case the person who dies was very suitable for being corrupted by the entity that killed them, but was not. Balthazar could have Forged the PC immediately after killing them but does not. Trahearne could have become Mordrem during the last fight but does not until Mordremoth is dead. The Mentor does not become corrupted until they make a heroic exit. In that sense Aurene not becoming corrupted before her death is very similar (as it has been shown before that one does not need to die physically to be corrupted).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

We did change the vision, we changed it right off the bat. None of the visions had Aurene glow as she does after the trials, after she achieves Ascension. On top of that, none of the visions had Dragonsblood weapons.

We changed Aurene, our weapons, and the location to not match any of those visions; to be better chances for us than in any of those visions. Yet it didn't matter in the end.

That was the point of the hope of this episode, and how it all came to nothing in the end.

and the pale tree just becomes some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds

Once again, you forget the fact we need four-six replacements. Aurene could never replace all six Elder Dragons. And nor can the Pale Tree. Not without retconning both Taimi in Season 3 and Sadizi in Path of Fire, our currently sole sources for the nature of The All's imbalance.

Besides, plot-wise, whomever becomes the next Elder Dragon will no doubt go into deep sleep as having an Elder Dragon ally would be OP and trivialize any plot that isn't set to universe-shattering proportions, which would just be silly for the Commander to be able to withstand.

[Bast.7253]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

We did change the vision, we changed it right off the bat. None of the visions had Aurene glow as she does after the trials, after she achieves Ascension. On top of that, none of the visions had Dragonsblood weapons.

We changed Aurene, our weapons, and the location to not match any of those visions; to be better chances for us than in any of those visions. Yet it didn't matter in the end.

That was the point of the hope of this episode, and how it all came to nothing in the end.

and the pale tree just becomes some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds

Once again, you forget the fact we need four-six replacements. Aurene could never replace all six Elder Dragons. And nor can the Pale Tree. Not without retconning both Taimi in Season 3 and Sadizi in Path of Fire, our currently sole sources for the nature of The All's imbalance.

Besides, plot-wise, whomever becomes the next Elder Dragon will no doubt go into deep sleep as having an Elder Dragon ally would be OP and trivialize any plot that isn't set to universe-shattering proportions, which would just be silly for the Commander to be able to withstand.

I didn’t forget, you were the one talking about the possibility of the pale tree ascending allowing us to kill kralk to maintain life as it is now and not tip the scales. What does replacing the other two have to do with that? I’m saying that even that little bit would be a cheap temporary resolution for me. I don’t keep forgetting anything? Lol...

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

We did change the vision, we changed it right off the bat. None of the visions had Aurene glow as she does after the trials, after she achieves Ascension. On top of that, none of the visions had Dragonsblood weapons.

We changed Aurene, our weapons, and the location to not match any of those visions; to be better chances for us than in any of those visions. Yet it didn't matter in the end.

That was the point of the hope of this episode, and how it all came to nothing in the end.

and the pale tree just becomes some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds

Once again, you forget the fact we need four-six replacements. Aurene could never replace all six Elder Dragons. And nor can the Pale Tree. Not without retconning both Taimi in Season 3 and Sadizi in Path of Fire, our currently sole sources for the nature of The All's imbalance.

Besides, plot-wise, whomever becomes the next Elder Dragon will no doubt go into deep sleep as having an Elder Dragon ally would be OP and trivialize any plot that isn't set to universe-shattering proportions, which would just be silly for the Commander to be able to withstand.

I didn’t forget, you were the one talking about the possibility of the pale tree ascending allowing us to kill kralk to maintain life as it is now and not tip the scales. What does replacing the other two have to do with that? I’m saying that even that little bit would be a cheap temporary resolution for me. I don’t keep forgetting anything? Lol...

It has to do with the Pale Tree not actually becoming "some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds".

[Bast.7253]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

We did change the vision, we changed it right off the bat. None of the visions had Aurene glow as she does after the trials, after she achieves Ascension. On top of that, none of the visions had Dragonsblood weapons.

We changed Aurene, our weapons, and the location to not match any of those visions; to be better chances for us than in any of those visions. Yet it didn't matter in the end.

That was the point of the hope of this episode, and how it all came to nothing in the end.

and the pale tree just becomes some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds

Once again, you forget the fact we need four-six replacements. Aurene could never replace all six Elder Dragons. And nor can the Pale Tree. Not without retconning both Taimi in Season 3 and Sadizi in Path of Fire, our currently sole sources for the nature of The All's imbalance.

Besides, plot-wise, whomever becomes the next Elder Dragon will no doubt go into deep sleep as having an Elder Dragon ally would be OP and trivialize any plot that isn't set to universe-shattering proportions, which would just be silly for the Commander to be able to withstand.

I didn’t forget, you were the one talking about the possibility of the pale tree ascending allowing us to kill kralk to maintain life as it is now and not tip the scales. What does replacing the other two have to do with that? I’m saying that even that little bit would be a cheap temporary resolution for me. I don’t keep forgetting anything? Lol...

It has to do with the Pale Tree not actually becoming "some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds".

Obvious hyperbole.... I guess I should start putting disclaimers.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:And the fact that none of those scenes in her vision even remotely looked like where we actually fought Kralk could also imply that this is the one outcome she didn't forsee. That perhaps Glint's involvement with her this episode changed the outcome in a way that Aurene couldn't have forseen in those visions, leading us to fighting him where we did.

We did change the vision, we changed it right off the bat. None of the visions had Aurene glow as she does after the trials, after she achieves Ascension. On top of that, none of the visions had Dragonsblood weapons.

We changed Aurene, our weapons, and the location to not match any of those visions; to be better chances for us than in any of those visions. Yet it didn't matter in the end.

That was the point of the hope of this episode, and how it all came to nothing in the end.

and the pale tree just becomes some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds

Once again, you forget the fact we need four-six replacements. Aurene could never replace all six Elder Dragons. And nor can the Pale Tree. Not without retconning both Taimi in Season 3 and Sadizi in Path of Fire, our currently sole sources for the nature of The All's imbalance.

Besides, plot-wise, whomever becomes the next Elder Dragon will no doubt go into deep sleep as having an Elder Dragon ally would be OP and trivialize any plot that isn't set to universe-shattering proportions, which would just be silly for the Commander to be able to withstand.

I didn’t forget, you were the one talking about the possibility of the pale tree ascending allowing us to kill kralk to maintain life as it is now and not tip the scales. What does replacing the other two have to do with that? I’m saying that even that little bit would be a cheap temporary resolution for me. I don’t keep forgetting anything? Lol...

It has to do with the Pale Tree not actually becoming "some super elder dragon magic infused oracle of dreamworlds".

Obvious hyperbole.... I guess I should start putting disclaimers.

Or just not use hyperbole at all and say what you mean to say. ¯\(ツ)/¯

[crepuscular.9047]

seriously... why havent the asurans invented something equivelant to nukes? it will be GG to Elder Dragons long time ago, and we can finally go back to what the game is meant to be, Guild Wars