brenda.9723 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 We lost the big fight and now aurene is dead . What is something we can look forward to in the story? Bc joko and aurene were one of the only characters i was interested in :(. Did they hint at any interesting stories arcs they could go for? I feel like the writers wrote themselfes in a corner with E5, bc both outcomes feel a bit lame to me.aurene returns, so her death meant nothing. Her dead was just a cheap emotional tool to make me really upset.aurene stays death, which ruins all the build up they did for her. And without her it is impossible to fight kralky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I'm guessing her death wasn't meaningless. However we eventually beat Kraalkatorik, it will probably turn out that this was a necessary step along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Hopefully getting back to decent heroic fantasy without having a silly dragon pet interfering with the plot. Ive wanted her dead since the destroyers invaded the egg chamber. It has been a long pay off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraki.5784 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @perilisk.1874 said:I'm guessing her death wasn't meaningless. However we eventually beat Kraalkatorik, it will probably turn out that this was a necessary step along the way.Aurene was Kralk's Horcrux <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @"Randulf.7614" said:Hopefully getting back to decent heroic fantasy without having a silly dragon pet interfering with the plot. Ive wanted her dead since the destroyers invaded the egg chamber. It has been a long pay off...We got it ... you didn't like Aurene at all ... Fine What annoys me : they build the entire story around that character for months or even years and now they just "delete" or "destroy" all their story logic by just a making Kralk feint he was almost dead and killing aurene in the processe with an extraordinary regain of power at the last second ... I mean ... it came from nowhere. The entire episode was great... just that right moment was rushed for me and makes almost no sense in term of story writting or even logic.As if story writters were in a competition to know which one will get the most dramatic (and useless) death in their story episode .I don't mind killing important characters but when it makes some sense in the lore at least. HEre it felt almost like you wanted to make something BIG and you were saying like "let's throw the past 10 months of the story away and start something new" with almost no link in between.I'm really dissappointed in the way the things were handled. And that cliffhanger ... plz this is not even a good end for a poor soap on netflix ... feels unfinished and rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 what do you mean it came from nowhere, the vision told us all we needed to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @ThatOddOne.4387 said:what do you mean it came from nowhere, the vision told us all we needed to knowYeah, if it turned out differently, it would mean that Aurene sucks at visions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:@"Randulf.7614" said:Hopefully getting back to decent heroic fantasy without having a silly dragon pet interfering with the plot. Ive wanted her dead since the destroyers invaded the egg chamber. It has been a long pay off...We got it ... you didn't like Aurene at all ... Fine What annoys me : they build the entire story around that character for months or even years and now they just "delete" or "destroy" all their story logic by just a making Kralk feint he was almost dead and killing aurene in the processe with an extraordinary regain of power at the last second ... I mean ... it came from nowhere. The entire episode was great... just that right moment was rushed for me and makes almost no sense in term of story writting or even logic.As if story writters were in a competition to know which one will get the most dramatic (and useless) death in their story episode .I don't mind killing important characters but when it makes some sense in the lore at least. HEre it felt almost like you wanted to make something BIG and you were saying like "let's throw the past 10 months of the story away and start something new" with almost no link in between.I'm really dissappointed in the way the things were handled. And that cliffhanger ... plz this is not even a good end for a poor soap on netflix ... feels unfinished and rushed.I don't disagree with those who find it distasteful in building her up for so long and investing so much into her and then throwing her away. But there are two points to bear in mind. Her death was heavily telegraphed, including actually showing it the previous episode. If people chose to believe something else, that's not a fault of Anets writing. Secondly, it seems clear this is not the end of her involvement or journey given the secret between her and Glint re; Ascension. Something will happen to either bring her back whole (and no lets not start the whole Joko thing please) or bring her back in a way that still keeps her relevant to the direction they have been going in.Sadly (for me) this is not the end of Aurene. it's just a twist. Players have cried out for genuine loss, a defeat and a cliffhanger for years. This is where we are at.Regardless of how I feel about this terrible episode, the vast majority have found an emotional reaction to it and that is what the writers want. They want people talking, speculating, getting emotional. For all else, I'll give them credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @Randulf.7614 said:@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:@Randulf.7614 said:Hopefully getting back to decent heroic fantasy without having a silly dragon pet interfering with the plot. Ive wanted her dead since the destroyers invaded the egg chamber. It has been a long pay off...We got it ... you didn't like Aurene at all ... Fine What annoys me : they build the entire story around that character for months or even years and now they just "delete" or "destroy" all their story logic by just a making Kralk feint he was almost dead and killing aurene in the processe with an extraordinary regain of power at the last second ... I mean ... it came from nowhere. The entire episode was great... just that right moment was rushed for me and makes almost no sense in term of story writting or even logic.As if story writters were in a competition to know which one will get the most dramatic (and useless) death in their story episode .I don't mind killing important characters but when it makes some sense in the lore at least. HEre it felt almost like you wanted to make something BIG and you were saying like "let's throw the past 10 months of the story away and start something new" with almost no link in between.I'm really dissappointed in the way the things were handled. And that cliffhanger ... plz this is not even a good end for a poor soap on netflix ... feels unfinished and rushed.I don't disagree with those who find it distasteful in building her up for so long and investing so much into her and then throwing her away. But there are two points to bear in mind. Her death was heavily telegraphed, including actually showing it the previous episode. If people chose to believe something else, that's not a fault of Anets writing. Secondly, it seems clear this is not the end of her involvement or journey given the secret between her and Glint re; Ascension. Something will happen to either bring her back whole (and no lets not start the whole Joko thing please) or bring her back in a way that still keeps her relevant to the direction they have been going in.Players have cried out for genuine loss, a defeat.I never quite understood this. I would considered the original attack on Lions Arch as a Loss, same the first assault with the pact on Mordremoth. Then all the times we faught Balthazar and loss to him, including actually being killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @Randulf.7614 said:@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:@Randulf.7614 said:Hopefully getting back to decent heroic fantasy without having a silly dragon pet interfering with the plot. Ive wanted her dead since the destroyers invaded the egg chamber. It has been a long pay off...We got it ... you didn't like Aurene at all ... Fine What annoys me : they build the entire story around that character for months or even years and now they just "delete" or "destroy" all their story logic by just a making Kralk feint he was almost dead and killing aurene in the processe with an extraordinary regain of power at the last second ... I mean ... it came from nowhere. The entire episode was great... just that right moment was rushed for me and makes almost no sense in term of story writting or even logic.As if story writters were in a competition to know which one will get the most dramatic (and useless) death in their story episode .I don't mind killing important characters but when it makes some sense in the lore at least. HEre it felt almost like you wanted to make something BIG and you were saying like "let's throw the past 10 months of the story away and start something new" with almost no link in between.I'm really dissappointed in the way the things were handled. And that cliffhanger ... plz this is not even a good end for a poor soap on netflix ... feels unfinished and rushed.I don't disagree with those who find it distasteful in building her up for so long and investing so much into her and then throwing her away. But there are two points to bear in mind. Her death was heavily telegraphed, including actually showing it the previous episode. If people chose to believe something else, that's not a fault of Anets writing. Secondly, it seems clear this is not the end of her involvement or journey given the secret between her and Glint re; Ascension. Something will happen to either bring her back whole (and no lets not start the whole Joko thing please) or bring her back in a way that still keeps her relevant to the direction they have been going in.Sadly (for me) this is not the end of Aurene. it's just a twist. Players have cried out for genuine loss, a defeat and a cliffhanger for years. This is where we are at.Regardless of how I feel about this terrible episode, the vast majority have found an emotional reaction to it and that is what the writers want. They want people talking, speculating, getting emotional. For all else, I'll give them credit for that.I'm not really for or against the importance of Aurene in the story ... as long as it's good. As I said , as long as their pick one idea and they go through it with sense and all the steps needed to make a coherent and understandable story ... I'm totally fine with that. I will enjoy either way. If the commander was a total d*ck and would ruin the world it would be awesome as long as they put all their imagination at it and being crazy.But that last scene for me , comes from nowhere with almost no sign of it the entire fight. Ppl had speculations from the vision in the last episode but for me, loosing again would mean the story was staling ... and nothing really knew would happen ... and then why making a vision at first if it's not changed? Kralk was almost dead then with some weird magic out of nowhere it gets up and fly away after spitting on us ... i mean ... wut? what is that scenario?FOr me the episode ended too early ... we don't need cliffhangers like soaps or sequels for a video game. Waiting even 3 months to get some character thougths about what happen or even something to talk about after that ... whatever. Living story was the only patch of content quality but not even now ... too many content that feel rushed into the release for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:But that last scene for me , comes from nowhere with almost no sign of it the entire fight. Ppl had speculations from the vision in the last episode but for me, loosing again would mean the story was staling ... and nothing really knew would happen ... and then why making a vision at first if it's not changed? Kralk was almost dead then with some weird magic out of nowhere it gets up and fly away after spitting on us ... i mean ... wut? what is that scenario?Who says it was almost dead? HP bars are game mechanics, not physical reality. Anyway, Balthazar pulled the same crap. Force a fight where we're at a disadvantage, let us whittle his HP bar down, then say "Psyche!". And look how that turned out. Aurene grieving her second loss in a short time to the same superbeing (well, at least Blish wasn't the PC's brother) and the PC having to faff about in the Mists to get resurrected. Now the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't feel so good, huh?Glint's army was telling Aurene the time was now, and they've got their own prophecies to back it up. I think Aurene just didn't have context for the vision at the time, but during the two days she was off with Glint, she got a better handle on what was going to happen -- not that her vision was wrong, just that it wasn't the end. Glint couldn't see her own death, after all. I think the more interesting question is not if they will bring her back (because Tyria can't really survive another episode without her), but how. They left a few options open there. I'm guessing "kill the Eater of Souls' twin brother" is probably not one of them.I do agree that the 3 month pacing feels wrong for this, though. Avoiding story gaps like this is the main advantage expansions have over LS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @"perilisk.1874" said:Who says it was almost dead? HP bars are game mechanics, not physical reality. Anyway, Balthazar pulled the same kitten. Force a fight where we're at a disadvantage, let us whittle his HP bar down, then say "Psyche!". And look how that turned out. Aurene grieving her second loss in a short time to the same superbeing (well, at least Blish wasn't the PC's brother) and the PC having to faff about in the Mists to get resurrected. Now the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't feel so good, huh?When Kralkatorrik entered the area, his teeth and spines glows purple like his crystals, his skin is darkened, clouds and lightning surround him. By the time we pin him down at the end for damaging his eye, those colors and magic effects fade, his skin begins to pale like someone losing blood.Unlike Balthazar, where there was no difference and dialogue shows he was toying with us the entire time (e.g., if we down he rallies us).People think Kralkatorrik played possum after losing his eye. But honestly, I think he might've fainted momentarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking.8720 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Caithe will be the key to bring her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:People think Kralkatorrik played possum after losing his eye. But honestly, I think he might've fainted momentarily.I mean.. yeah, I doubt the tracker data was lying either. But he wasn't as close to death as the HP bar was indicating. Anyway, I'm not playing the whole instance again to find out, but wasn't the HP bar for his eye, specifically? Maybe his eye was near death, but we killed quite a few of Zhaitan's eyes without that being the end of things too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @perilisk.1874 said:@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:People think Kralkatorrik played possum after losing his eye. But honestly, I think he might've fainted momentarily.I mean.. yeah, I doubt the tracker data was lying either. But he wasn't as close to death as the HP bar was indicating. Anyway, I'm not playing the whole instance again to find out, but wasn't the HP bar for his eye, specifically? Maybe his eye was near death, but we killed quite a few of Zhaitan's eyes without that being the end of things too.Yes, the third health bar was not for Kralkatorrik. It was for Kralkatorrik's Eye. And it was completely busted when we were done. So I'd say the bar was 100% accurate, technically. Just as the first two health bars were for wounded areas, which became devastated when depleted.The Eyes of Zhaitan were not literally Zhaitan's eyes but minions. Though for Zhaitan, given his "unique strength and weakness" destroying those was more effective than, say, destroying Shatterers. But it's still not the same as utterly devastating Kralkatorrik's eye - that's more on par to when we cut off Zhaitan's tails with the Mega-LIT laser.Though unlike a couple spare tails, the eye is directly linked into the brain and we were throwing spears piercing through the eye, and other wounds on Kralkatorrik's neck.All in all, cutting into (close to) his juggular, and taking out an eye, as well as resonating a frequency that would cause damage throughout his head and neck (which basically means we rattled his brain and cracked some bones, equivalently), that would cause some pretty major damage. Combine that with draining him of magic by making him use it up, and the damage done to him by Glint's army before we lured him, and he's more damaged now than ever before.I'd say he's probably close to where Zhaitan was when he was crippled onto that tower. Zhaitan had been drained of magic by the campaign, suffered damage from his weakness being exploited, had tails cut off by the Mega-LIT canon, and then had one of his major wings and arms schlopped off by the grappling hooks that seemed to counter his magic (aka Gorr tech). Though Kralkatorrik has more of his body left by the end of it, so he can actually flee, he's definitely pretty heavily damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@perilisk.1874 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:People think Kralkatorrik played possum after losing his eye. But honestly, I think he might've fainted momentarily.I mean.. yeah, I doubt the tracker data was lying either. But he wasn't as close to death as the HP bar was indicating. Anyway, I'm not playing the whole instance again to find out, but wasn't the HP bar for his eye, specifically? Maybe his eye was near death, but we killed quite a few of Zhaitan's eyes without that being the end of things too.The Eyes of Zhaitan were not literally Zhaitan's eyes but minions. Though for Zhaitan, given his "unique strength and weakness" destroying those was more effective than, say, destroying Shatterers. But it's still not the same as utterly devastating Kralkatorrik's eye - that's more on par to when we cut off Zhaitan's tails with the Mega-LIT laser.Well... total failure as a joke, apparently.Anyway, I have to hope that we hurt him enough to buy ourselves, oh, let's say 3 months while he entrenches and recovers. Otherwise, the pacing is going to feel really weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @perilisk.1874 said:@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:But that last scene for me , comes from nowhere with almost no sign of it the entire fight. Ppl had speculations from the vision in the last episode but for me, loosing again would mean the story was staling ... and nothing really knew would happen ... and then why making a vision at first if it's not changed? Kralk was almost dead then with some weird magic out of nowhere it gets up and fly away after spitting on us ... i mean ... wut? what is that scenario?Who says it was almost dead? HP bars are game mechanics, not physical reality. Anyway, Balthazar pulled the same kitten. Force a fight where we're at a disadvantage, let us whittle his HP bar down, then say "Psyche!". And look how that turned out. Aurene grieving her second loss in a short time to the same superbeing (well, at least Blish wasn't the PC's brother) and the PC having to faff about in the Mists to get resurrected. Now the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't feel so good, huh?Glint's army was telling Aurene the time was now, and they've got their own prophecies to back it up. I think Aurene just didn't have context for the vision at the time, but during the two days she was off with Glint, she got a better handle on what was going to happen -- not that her vision was wrong, just that it wasn't the end. Glint couldn't see her own death, after all. I think the more interesting question is not if they will bring her back (because Tyria can't really survive another episode without her), but how. They left a few options open there. I'm guessing "kill the Eater of Souls' twin brother" is probably not one of them.I do agree that the 3 month pacing feels wrong for this, though. Avoiding story gaps like this is the main advantage expansions have over LS.Well I wasn't talking about the HP bar ... but more of the signs - dialogues all over the confrontation. He basically gets rekt the entire fight and then at the end ... well... he's winning like that. (see sooner post of mine) but yeah...I just feel the story has brought nothing really valuable in this episode (unless a new map and new collection) it was just a meaningless fight . I t would have been better if we had a piece of alternative and not that huge cliffhanger that is not even good for a 3 months release content... on a weekly soap release okay... but 3 months ? i mean ... bad design there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zola.6197 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I thought the abrupt and hopeless ending was incredibly impactful. We failed. Big time. We don’t know what to do next. That’s when you get juicy juicy character development — how do people change, grow, or regress when disaster strikes?Honestly I’m not sure what other resolution they could bring that would feel right given what we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenda.9723 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 Kralky looked also dead to me. For me his attack and aurenes death came out of nowhere too. So i get what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenda.9723 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 @"Svennis.3852" said:I thought the abrupt and hopeless ending was incredibly impactful. We failed. Big time. We don’t know what to do next. That’s when you get juicy juicy character development — how do people change, grow, or regress when disaster strikes?Honestly I’m not sure what other resolution they could bring that would feel right given what we lost.I am not sure if shockvalue plot is the best way for character development? Note that the writers focus with character development more on the rest of the cast then on the commander, bc he/she is supposed to be a blank slate. I hope they write something good, but team 3 was always the worst story telling team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:Well I wasn't talking about the HP bar ... but more of the signs - dialogues all over the confrontation. He basically gets rekt the entire fight and then at the end ... well... he's winning like that. (see sooner post of mine) but yeah...Is he winning, though? Her visions showed her completely crystallized, and the first instance makes clear that her greatest fear is not death, but being branded (which makes even more sense if she knows she can use Joko's magic, since it wouldn't help her against that). Even though we wake up at ground zero for a purple crystal nuke, neither she nor the commander is corrupted - that energy went somewhere, and I think it went toward changing her from a dragon into an elder dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I presume that Aurene's death wasn't in vain. She surely damaged him and this will lead to the defeat in a dedicated Kralkatorrik map where a map wide meta event will take him down similar to Mordremoth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrigginPaco.4178 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 On the death of Aurene:I'm perfectly fine with it being permanent, though I am a little off-put by the lack of breadcrumbs for what follows next. I'm sure that they have something in mind for us, otherwise, pack your kittens folks, it's time to abandon Tyria to its new Lord and Savior Kralky-poo.However, in the scenario where her death is not permanent... I really only see one way in which this can be achieved via Guild Wars 1: Crystal Hibernation. It is the skill used by Glint in the bonus mission where you fight her in her lair. It is also present on Revenant/Herald Shield 4 as a healing skill w/block & condition removal per pulse if traited. I do find it unlikely they will go this exact route, but there is precedent, as we "killed" Glint in that bonus mission, but she was totally fine until the final death at the hands of Kralk.Just some thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alric.5078 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Here is what i thinkIt has been long established (since LW3 episode 5) that we can't kill Elder Dragons without a way to replace them, otherwise the planet goes BOOM. If that happens, we are screwed. So now that Aurene is dead we can't kill Kralkatorrik no matter how much we want to. But, we also cannot let him recover the strenght he has lost in this fight, because if that happens he will go back consuming all the magic which means we are also screwed.So i think that we are probably going to do another trip into the domain of the lost (or whatever part of the Mists the souls of dead dragons end up in) and find a way to resurrect Aurene. The Commander managed to come back to life after being killed by Balthazar, i believe Aurene can do the same. And once she's back, we can fight Kralkatorrik again and finish him off for sure. In my opinion, that's the only way to save the story coherence (Aurene did die just like she predicted she would, but nobody said anything about her being unable to resurrect). Even if the whole "coming back to life" would be sort of a deja-vù after what happened in PoF, it is still a lot better than Anet creating a whole new different solution to the Elder Dragons problem out of nowhere. Because that would feel like a total asspull (since there has been no foreshadowing of such a thing), not to mention that Aurene being permanently dead would invalidate pretty much everything we have done since we first heard about the Egg in LW2 episode 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @"Sir Alric.5078" said:Here is what i thinkIt has been long established (since LW3 episode 5) that we can't kill Elder Dragons without a way to replace them, otherwise the planet goes BOOM. If that happens, we are screwed. So now that Aurene is dead we can't kill Kralkatorrik no matter how much we want to. But, we also cannot let him recover the strenght he has lost in this fight, because if that happens he will go back consuming all the magic which means we are also screwed.So i think that we are probably going to do another trip into the domain of the lost (or whatever part of the Mists the souls of dead dragons end up in) and find a way to resurrect Aurene. The Commander managed to come back to life after being killed by Balthazar, i believe Aurene can do the same. And once she's back, we can fight Kralkatorrik again and finish him off for sure. In my opinion, that's the only way to save the story coherence (Aurene did die just like she predicted she would, but nobody said anything about her being unable to resurrect). Even if the whole "coming back to life" would be sort of a deja-vù after what happened in PoF, it is still a lot better than Anet creating a whole new different solution to the Elder Dragons problem out of nowhere. Because that would feel like a total asspull (since there has been no foreshadowing of such a thing), not to mention that Aurene being permanently dead would invalidate pretty much everything we have done since we first heard about the Egg in LW2 episode 5. They've basically written themselves into a corner (under which they installed a trapdoor ahead of time with a light fixture they could twist to escape, and this metaphor is getting out of hand). If we don't kill Kraalkatorik, reality is completely destroyed, shut down the servers and move on.If we do kill Kraalkatorik without bringing Aurene back to life (barring something pulled out of nowhere), magic is destabilized and runs rampant. The wall between Tyria and the Mists breaks down, and Jahai showed us what happens then -- every area in the world would be filled with historical events that are locked in time, repeating in an endless lo-- oh, kitten. Oh kitteny kitten. YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! KITTEN YOU! SIX KITTEN YOU ALL TO THE REALM OF TORMENT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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