Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Kam.4092" said:EDIT: I’m not demanding to know everything, just small things like what to expect after LS5. It can be small things like hinting at a new feature

I am pretty annoyed with the "hinting" philosophy of GW2. Back in GW1 we were always informed about expansions being in the works, even that a GW2 was being developed and what that would means for GW1. I don't like this new GW2 secrecy; there is no reason whatsoever why we can't be told whether an expansion is in the works or not.I can see only one good reason - if the expansion is not in the work, and they don't want to tell us that because they are (rightly in such a case) afraid we'll decide the game is sinking and leave.

Basically the only good reason for not telling us about their plans for the future is when that future looks grim.

Good for Anet, that is. Not for players.

So, i really hope they will give us a much more detailed info that they are used to this week. If they can't even do that now, when the community is uncertain and afraid about the future, i will take it as an admission that we do have very good reasons to be afraid.

[Ashen.2907]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.I think that people who dropped a lot of cash on gems do have a fair reason to ask this question since the return is a lot less for them than what they put into it. But even the whales will have to realize that their investment into the game, doesn't actually make them an investor. So that should be food for thought.This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?That's pretty much true in my opinion as well.If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.Agreed. That will never happen

Everyone who spent money, large amount or small, on gems got 100% of what they paid for.

[Gehenna.3625]

I'm sure you mean well but this is a complete waste of time if you ask me. Firstly because this knee-jerk reaction to the reorganization for ArenaNet is nothing more than that but also because a number of your claims are really just that: claims. A number of them are easily identifiable as incorrect or unrealistic as it stands.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.I think that people who dropped a lot of cash on gems do have a fair reason to ask this question since the return is a lot less for them than what they put into it. But even the whales will have to realize that their investment into the game, doesn't actually make them an investor. So that should be food for thought.This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?That's pretty much true in my opinion as well.If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.Agreed. That will never happen

Everyone who spent money, large amount or small, on gems got 100% of what they paid for.Not really. It is fair comment that people got what they paid for when it comes to the box game and some minimal purchases. The only people who paid more than they got for are the whales. But even then it's fair for them to ask the question but not realistic to expect an answer. I limited my spending on purpose so I get what I paid for. Some expenditure is fair on a game without a sub, but I got what I paid for. So I don't feel I have the right to ask them how they invested their surplus that came from whales and not myself. I understand they might ask the question but as I said, I do not think they should expect an answer.

[Malediktus.9250]

It doesn't bug me that they spent the time and money. It bugs me that now we will never see the results of it. Essentially making it a waste that took a visible toll on GW2.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Malediktus.9250 said:It doesn't bug me that they spent the time and money. It bugs me that now we will never see the results of it. Essentially making it a waste that took a visible toll on GW2.

The annoying thing is that ArenaNet became part of Ncsoft. They probably thought it was a good idea at the time and maybe they still do. I can't judge that. But in doing so they became part of a larger context where there is no longer a single direct link between GW2 revenue and ArenaNet investment. Ncsoft is between that now. And so when certain things fall through for Ncsoft that affect ArenaNet, that's just the way it is. That will not get better as that's how it is.

[Haishao.6851]

Hope you realize how these kind of posts are nothing else than a waste of time.NCSoft is one of the biggest MMO publisher on earth. Arenanet makes millions and hires hundreds of employees.They don't need forum posts to tell them how to run their already successful company.

[Palador.2170]

We know ANet has plans for the game's future.We know those plans are ones they feel with make good money and keep the game going.We know those plans are already under development.

Really, that's all we need to know about their future plans for GW2. They're already working on their best ideas, losing some people won't suddenly bring in new ideas that drive out the old ones. If you had faith in ANet's plan last week, you should still have it this week because it's still the same plan. If there's going to be a long-term change, they won't know that yet, so they can hardly tell us about it. And if they do find themselves finding a long-term problem, they'll adjust to work around it and stick as close to their plan as they can, because it's still the best plan they have.

[Palador.2170]

@Malediktus.9250 said:It doesn't bug me that they spent the time and money. It bugs me that now we will never see the results of it. Essentially making it a waste that took a visible toll on GW2.

Well, you may see part of it. Ideas have a way of sticking around and changing to fit themselves in where they can. Who knows what story ideas may echo back into GW2 at some point, especially as some of them may have started as GW2 ideas to begin with. And even a failed experience is still a chance to try new things, and maybe you'll find an unexpected use for what you've learned somewhere down the line.

Also, the people that do have to leave will be taking some of those ideas with them. We may not see them from ANet, but we might get them from someone else somewhere down the road.

[Healix.5819]

ArenaNet was potentially wasting a lot of resources. Consider that they launched GW2 with 270 employees and have expanded to around 400 over the years. It's always been known that they've working on other projects, such as the known to be cancelled GW2 for consoles and the mobile app, but after all these years, they still have nothing to show.

[Maikimaik.1974]

Aren't you the one who also made the "veteran system" thread?Yet again, your ideas are not only unrealistic but also completely unnecessary.Please don't take this as an insult, but it seems to me that you don't really have the best understanding of how Guild Wars 2 works and what the community wants.

[Swagger.1459]

@"Gehenna.3625" said:I'm sure you mean well but this is a complete waste of time if you ask me. Firstly because this knee-jerk reaction to the reorganization for ArenaNet is nothing more than that but also because a number of your claims are really just that: claims. A number of them are easily identifiable as incorrect or unrealistic as it stands.

These ideas grow the areas that Anet does well and makes them better. Anet has also been passive with how they generate revenue.

And sorry, but no, these were not "knee jerk" reactions. It pretty obvious I wanted improvements, in many areas, before this "reorganization". Nothing I've brought up was new, it's just even more relevant now.

[Swagger.1459]

@Haishao.6851 said:Hope you realize how these kind of posts are nothing else than a waste of time.NCSoft is one of the biggest MMO publisher on earth. Arenanet makes millions and hires hundreds of employees.They don't need forum posts to tell them how to run their already successful company.

Well, thanks for the input, but I'm posting my feedback anyway.

[Holykitten.3064]

Oh look, another thread pushing a subscription idea.Guarantee atleast 50% of the playerbase would leave if ANY sub is introduced, optionally or not.You don't know the actual financials NCSoft is working with, lay-offs or not. Restructuring and laying-off unnecessary roles within companies is insanely common in many corporations, not just gaming. Does it suck for those who will be laid off, yes of course. Does the game need these particular ideas 'to stay afloat'. Nope.

[Ashen.2907]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.I think that people who dropped a lot of cash on gems do have a fair reason to ask this question since the return is a lot less for them than what they put into it. But even the whales will have to realize that their investment into the game, doesn't actually make them an investor. So that should be food for thought.This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?That's pretty much true in my opinion as well.If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.Agreed. That will never happen

Everyone who spent money, large amount or small, on gems got 100% of what they paid for.Not really. It is fair comment that people got what they paid for when it comes to the box game and some minimal purchases. The only people who paid more than they got for are the whales. But even then it's fair for them to ask the question but not realistic to expect an answer. I limited my spending on purpose so I get what I paid for. Some expenditure is fair on a game without a sub, but I got what I paid for. So I don't feel I have the right to ask them how they invested their surplus that came from whales and not myself. I understand they might ask the question but as I said, I do not think they should expect an answer.

Can you provide a single example of someone who, for example, spent real money on a set amount of gems and didnt get those gems?

[Trise.2865]

Gotta love all the backseat business advice from people who think they know what they're talking about. Next we'll be hearing about astrophysics from the Flat-Earth Society, or animal husbandry from PETA.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Haishao.6851 said:Hope you realize how these kind of posts are nothing else than a waste of time.NCSoft is one of the biggest MMO publisher on earth. Arenanet makes millions and hires hundreds of employees.They don't need forum posts to tell them how to run their already successful company.

Well, thanks for the input, but I'm posting my feedback anyway.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Gehenna.3625" said:I'm sure you mean well but this is a complete waste of time if you ask me. Firstly because this knee-jerk reaction to the reorganization for ArenaNet is nothing more than that but also because a number of your claims are really just that: claims. A number of them are easily identifiable as incorrect or unrealistic as it stands.

These ideas grow the areas that Anet does well and makes them better. Anet has also been passive with how they generate revenue.

And sorry, but no, these were not "knee jerk" reactions. It pretty obvious I wanted improvements, in many areas, before this "reorganization". Nothing I've brought up was new, it's just even more relevant now.

I'll give you one example. You speak of making things available at all times instead of timed sales without knowing when they will be on sale again. You argue that this will increase revenue. That's false. Timed sales is one of the ways to make people spend more. They've researched all of that and found that this works better because people will feel more that they need to spend now and not later, so you can also get them to buy things they normally wouldn't.

Now you feel that for you this would be a better situation and that because then you would spend the money when it suits you that therefore it works that way for everybody. It doesn't. That's the research and experience they have already. That's why they hire experts to do this sort of thing. It may be true for some people but they are looking for the method that increases sales the most. Your proposal will increase revenue with some players no doubt, but it will also lose them revenue because people no longer feel the time pressure. So in the end on the overall balance, your idea just wouldn't work.

[Swagger.1459]

@"Maikimaik.1974" said:Aren't you the one who also made the "veteran system" thread?Yet again, your ideas are not only unrealistic but also completely unnecessary.Please don't take this as an insult, but it seems to me that you don't really have the best understanding of how Guild Wars 2 works and what the community wants.

What does the "community want" according to you? More free stuff? FREE LW content that comes out every few months, with a couple inexpensive skins? Xpacs that come out every 2-3 years?

Not like you don't see unhappiness, desires and complaints being expressed about professions right? Like our characters are not important in the equation... There were never massive threads about opening up raids as end game, like other games have done right? Not like players never asked to improve wvw and spvp, of which according to MO... about 40% of the player base participates in wvw and spvp, right? Not like GW2 was dropped by ESL as an E-Sport right? I could go on and on...

The truth is you are not paying attention to the game as a whole when making your statements.

[Swagger.1459]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:Oh look, another thread pushing a subscription idea.Guarantee atleast 50% of the playerbase would leave if ANY sub is introduced, optionally or not.You don't know the actual financials NCSoft is working with, lay-offs or not. Restructuring and laying-off unnecessary roles within companies is insanely common in many corporations, not just gaming. Does it suck for those who will be laid off, yes of course. Does the game need these particular ideas 'to stay afloat'. Nope.

Spoken like a person who doesn't care about the future of the game.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.I think that people who dropped a lot of cash on gems do have a fair reason to ask this question since the return is a lot less for them than what they put into it. But even the whales will have to realize that their investment into the game, doesn't actually make them an investor. So that should be food for thought.This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?That's pretty much true in my opinion as well.If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.Agreed. That will never happen

Everyone who spent money, large amount or small, on gems got 100% of what they paid for.Not really. It is fair comment that people got what they paid for when it comes to the box game and some minimal purchases. The only people who paid more than they got for are the whales. But even then it's fair for them to ask the question but not realistic to expect an answer. I limited my spending on purpose so I get what I paid for. Some expenditure is fair on a game without a sub, but I got what I paid for. So I don't feel I have the right to ask them how they invested their surplus that came from whales and not myself. I understand they might ask the question but as I said, I do not think they should expect an answer.

Can you provide a single example of someone who, for example, spent real money on a set amount of gems and didnt get those gems?No and that's irrelevant. Getting your money's worth is that the money you spend gets you something of value that is represented by that money and that is NOT the case. Just because ArenaNet asks those prices does not mean you get a fair value for it. That's the cool thing for them because they have a monopoly there.

Don't even act like asking exorbitant prices for products is a fair and ethical business practice. It's legal no doubt but there are a lot of things that are legal that are ethical or fair. In this discussion you represent the letter of the law and I represent ethics. We're not going to agree unless I abandon my sense of ethics or you abandon the idea that laws are ethical by default.

When a game costs 30 bucks (price of an expansion including the base game) asking 8 bucks for a single skin or 24 bucks for a set of indestructible gathering tools is not a fair value. It just isn't.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.I think that people who dropped a lot of cash on gems do have a fair reason to ask this question since the return is a lot less for them than what they put into it. But even the whales will have to realize that their investment into the game, doesn't actually make them an investor. So that should be food for thought.This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?That's pretty much true in my opinion as well.If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.Agreed. That will never happen

Everyone who spent money, large amount or small, on gems got 100% of what they paid for.Not really. It is fair comment that people got what they paid for when it comes to the box game and some minimal purchases. The only people who paid more than they got for are the whales.

No. No matter how big a customer you are, you don't automatically become an investor.Even if I buy gems for $100k a month, as long as I get the full amount of gems (8 million), I've gotten exactly what I payed for. Of course, I'd have expectations of success for the company if I spent that much, but even if that doesn't happen I've gotten exactly what I payed for! (and possibly a lesson to spend more cautiously).

It's like going to watch a Marvel movie: paying to watch Infinity War didn't entitle you to see Endgame. Yes, gains from the first affected the creation of the second (to a degree), but what you actually payed for was to see Infinity War.

[Swagg.9236]

The whole secretly taking people from GW2 and putting them on unnamed projects only to be found out by NCSoft and then completely absorbed into the fold? Was it really worth it considering how crippled GW2 became over time? And how little support it really got over its lifetime? And to the players: How does it feel knowing that GW2 is basically on maintenance mode now (as if the standard fare update schedule hadn't been anemic enough)?

[Cyninja.2954]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Haleydawn.3764" said:Oh look, another thread pushing a subscription idea.Guarantee atleast 50% of the playerbase would leave if ANY sub is introduced, optionally or not.You don't know the actual financials NCSoft is working with, lay-offs or not. Restructuring and laying-off unnecessary roles within companies is insanely common in many corporations, not just gaming. Does it suck for those who will be laid off, yes of course. Does the game need these particular ideas 'to stay afloat'. Nope.

Spoken like a person who doesn't care about the future of the game.

Actually spoken like a person who does not have a knee jerk reaction to a "supposed" lack of financial performance from GW2, which you have neither proven nor which has been in any way indicated at currently.

Unless the cancelling of unrelated projects which were financed with income generated from GW2 to you means: GW2 was under-performing.

Kind of a weird interpretation of the currently known facts, but hey, if that's how you see things.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:Oh look, another thread pushing a subscription idea.Guarantee atleast 50% of the playerbase would leave if ANY sub is introduced, optionally or not.You don't know the actual financials NCSoft is working with, lay-offs or not. Restructuring and laying-off unnecessary roles within companies is insanely common in many corporations, not just gaming. Does it suck for those who will be laid off, yes of course. Does the game need these particular ideas 'to stay afloat'. Nope.

Spoken like a person who doesn't care about the future of the game.

I don't need to, Anet/NCSoft pays people to do that for me. They pay people to make content to keep me playing and cosmetics for me to buy, if they do good, I'll spend, if they don't I wont, as I'm sure every other player thinks this way.I am the consumer, as are you. I am not a stock holder, not an affiliate, I do not own/work for Anet or NCSoft, therefore, their business is none of my business.Again, you don't know NCSofts financials, and aren't in any position to make claims that would benefit the game on a financial level.There's a lot of problems with the game that need fixing, A subscription wont give Anet license to fix them as much as you believe it will, and it will alienate all the players who bought the game because it has no subscription model.

[Ashen.2907]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:Oh look, another thread pushing a subscription idea.Guarantee atleast 50% of the playerbase would leave if ANY sub is introduced, optionally or not.You don't know the actual financials NCSoft is working with, lay-offs or not. Restructuring and laying-off unnecessary roles within companies is insanely common in many corporations, not just gaming. Does it suck for those who will be laid off, yes of course. Does the game need these particular ideas 'to stay afloat'. Nope.

Spoken like a person who doesn't care about the future of the game.

Opposing something that one thinks will harm the game's future is not an example of not caring about the future of the game.