Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]

FrigginPaco.4178 · February 27, 2019

@Leo G.4501 said:
@Neural.1824 said:
@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:On the topic of mobile vs PC:
The shift to mobile is one of those blindsides that as a community we could have seen coming as the technology has been developed over the years... Don't misunderstand, I don't enjoy the idea, but as many have mentioned, mobile gaming is simply easier for more people to get into. Think of the hardware, even a mediocre smartphone today can run the vast majority of games available to the mobile platform. Some can be as cheap as $150 give or take. Compare that to a monitor, a desktop, headset if playing multiplayer, perhaps a sound system if no one else is on... you get the picture. The bar to entry is so much higher for PC games.
Speaking for myself, I hold the entire idea of mobile gaming under extreme contempt. If people thought console/PC in-game transactions were bad, so many of the mobile apps and games inundate the consumer with so many little bits and bobs that can fill even a moderately strong-willed consumer with the temptation to make a purchase. That leads to a purchase, and so on. The presence of Loot boxes in the larger gaming industry completely aside, and using GW2 as a base, there's nothing in the store I felt I absolutely needed to have to progress further.
These are only a few of the problems I have with mobile being as big as it is. Not to mention, the very last and most important one to us and even the folks at Blizzard, Bethesda and so on: it makes the community that upheld the original medium feel like they're being left behind.
DISCLAIMER
: that last line is not what's 100% happening here of course, but it may have something to do with the development heck for some of the other Anet projects. I don't know, we might never know what those were. I'm just speaking from the observations with the Diablo mobile fiasco and the super lukewarm reception to the Elder Scrolls: Blades mobile game.

Mobile gaming and MMORPG's are not a natural fit.

When a new Marvel movie comes out, does everyone rush to watch it on a 4" screen? No. They head to a theater where the screen is larger than any wall in their house. Field of vision is key to the immersion factor. I get it, mobile games are popular, but MMORPG's are about immersion, and that simply isn't going to happen on a phone. Games like Candy Crush, etc. do well because that is a format that works really well for mobile.Game companies see mobile as this fountain of money that they can dive into, and perhaps it is, but they are going to have to stop with this fantasy that people who want immersion are just going to run over a cliff like lemmings to buy their new product.If you want to see what MMORPG and similar genre gamers feel about mobile, just search for Bizzard Diablo Mobile Announcement on youtube.

Rather a false equivalency.

A 4" screen doesn't preclude the option to watch it on a large screen or distributing it on other types of devices but an mmo limited by bloated operating system requirements does limit you. On the other hand, you can indeed, play a mobile game on your large screen devices such as a desktop or laptop.

Right, I was essentially just pointing out the low bar to entry a phone has as a flat purchase compared to the full desktop, or even laptop, setup that PC gamers at large have to work with. The sheer jump in price for total equipment is likely the first hurdle, not to mention the price of the game/expansions. Getting newer players who've bought the expansions, who want to spend on the gemstore somewhat frequently, and who can feel like their experience vs cost is justified all at once is basically the work Anet and other MMOs need to do to attract new players.

Ashen.2907 · February 27, 2019

@Vayne.8563 said:
@wetwillyhip.7254 said:
@Vayne.8563 said:Star Wars ToR laid off 30% of their staff six months after the game launched. TSW laid off half their stuff. 25% of the staff, if you're trying to reorganize the company seems like a small percentage.
The company started with about 300 during development. It's up to almost 400 now. Laying off 100 people will bring the game to original launch levels. Some of those people were working on other projects as well, so I'm no t sure why everyone is running around yelling the sky is falling.

Agreed Vayne. I think the true point here is the sheer amount of shock and sadness the 100 layoffs bring with many long time staff veterans. I think no one anticipated or expected people like Gaile or Josh Foreman to be let go. I think GW2 will be fine as you've said, they're back down to still a healthy 300 employees. If the numbers got down to 100 then I would warrant the worry.

Community managers are often the first to go, sadly. The truth is long time people tend to make more, and if you're cutting corners they're often the ones to go. I won manager of the year at a job and got fired a year later when they started laying off people because I made too much money. It's a harsh reality that sucks. But it doesn't indicate anything deeper.

This.

I had the top performing department in the division but, when the economy tanked, was among the first to be laid off because performance based salary increases had put me at the top of the pay scale.

Lord of the Fire.6870 · February 27, 2019

@battledrone.8315 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:GW2 is fine, Wildstar cost them tens of millions if not hundreds and was an unmitigated disaster that was aimed at an audience already entrenched in WOW using a dated raiding model and crass in game humour.

i doubt that, you can bet they would have closed it much sooner, if that was the casewhen it started tanking, they put it on maintenance mode, and let it bleed out slowlyseeing how fast they axed CoX, which still had a decent revenue, they wouldnt pay to keep the lights on in a known failureand their actions here supports that

Having 300 people only for maintenance mode is a bit much ^^But its true Gw2 need to get new players or reactivate old.

Ninutra.7926 · February 27, 2019

Ok, so I need to throw out some thoughts buzzing in my head.(Emotional ramble ahead, might not make much sense).

I have been playing Aion since 2012, and I have had a fair interest in games from NCsoft for a while as well. I really don't care about raw numbers, but it's obvious that company is greedy beyond belief. What a surprise, games are a business.

Storytime: Aion was completely slaughtered when it started getting less profitable. Let me just say I loved that game, ok, it was the first MMO I have ever played, so my perception is surely skewed. HOWEVER: It was still utterly SLAUGHTERED. Heaps of content were flat out removed, removed! Years and years of people's hard work trashed, never to be seen again. People plead, begged, nothing. I swear in some later updates, it felt like the audio team was crying together with the players. And for the longest time, the game was progressively more pay to win, and draining wallets of the few people who remained loyal. Instead of making the game inspired and polishing its barely breathing potential, it was mercilessly held alive solely as a pathetic cash cow. When profits go down, future content suffers - gets made with the sole intent to suck the remaining pennies out of those still hanging on. As a result, everyone suffers.

Why am I going on about Aion? Well, because I don't trust that NCsoft will treat GW2 any better, now that I assume it will be more directly under their control. Money, money, money. I am not saying that GW2 doesn't produce that, but I am worried about its (hopefully) more distant future. Not the fact that it'll disappear, no. But how it will be treated when someone deems it no longer good enough.

Ofc no game can remain profitable forever blah blah, but they still deserve better. Wishful thinking, I know, to give the game and its creators a worthy and calm finish to a project. It does seem like I am painting the merger as a death sentence, but can you blame me? I have seen a game with so much potential being turned into a slave. It's not how art should be treated. Then again, games are treated as a business. Who cares about creators behind it, and how they feel, seeing their projects eventually becoming nothing more than something to make money off of. To some purely practical minds out there, it is the point of games, to make as much money as humanly possible, while originality and freedom of the creators takes a (very distant) second place. Soulless corporations treat games soullessly, all for players who treat games as soulless products. I wish my life was that easy, sometimes.

I am looking grim at the future, but I really HOPE that it holds something better in store for Anet and Guild Wars. I really do. I just fear that something I (and many others) care so much for, won't get the treatment it deserves. And it deserves so much better than this... the lay-offs, and a merger to top it off. Everything under the label of "NCsoft", and my mind's alarms are ringing at maximum volume. I hope it's just my PTSD, and not much to worry about after all.Still, the game's future isn't the worst part. It's the people it's about really, and what their future will be. And may they be treated well, with the respect they need. May this lay-off be the first and last one they'll ever experience.

Ramble over, rip.Tl;dr: Pray that GW2 and its devs don't get the same treatment as some other games from NCsoft in the future.

JTGuevara.9018 · February 27, 2019

Let me just say to the devs, thank you for all your hard work. It's never a good thing to see people being laid off. Devs, at the end of the day, are working people like you and I.

That being said, NCSoft/Arenanet are NOT getting off the hook. Gw2 has been mismanaged over the years since release and now the chickens are coming home to roost. The push towards "esports", the rushed HoT expansion, rejection of gw1's combat system, lack of support for wvw/pvp, these are among some bad decisions taken over the years.

This brings me to something else. The modern game industry SICKENS me. The greed is just rampant. You got companies that aren't happy just making a profit, they want to cut corners and screw the developers and players just to scratch that last cent. Honestly, once games became more mainstream and accepted, that's when corporate suits and investors decided to get their tentacles on them and ruin them. You want corporate shenanigans at its finest, look at mobile gaming. HOT GARBAGE. Now, regarding this game, whether you believe expansions vs living world will be a thing for the future, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that NCSoft will bear some of the responsibility in the near future (like...take over!). As far as the fate of gw2 goes, well...whatever NCSoft is in the mood for!

Bast.7253 · February 27, 2019

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Let me just say to the devs, thank you for all your hard work. It's never a good thing to see people being laid off. Devs, at the end of the day, are working people like you and I.
That being said, NCSoft/Arenanet are NOT getting off the hook. Gw2 has been mismanaged over the years since release and now the chickens are coming home to roost. The push towards "esports", the rushed HoT expansion, rejection of gw1's combat system, lack of support for wvw/pvp, these are among some bad decisions taken over the years.
This brings me to something else. The modern game industry SICKENS me. The greed is just rampant. You got companies that aren't happy just making a profit, they want to cut corners and screw the developers and players just to scratch that last cent. Honestly, once games became more mainstream and accepted, that's when corporate suits and investors decided to get their tentacles on them and ruin them. You want corporate shenanigans at its finest, look at mobile gaming. HOT GARBAGE. Now, regarding this game, whether you believe expansions vs living world will be a thing for the future, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that NCSoft will bear some of the responsibility in the near future (like...take over!). As far as the fate of gw2 goes, well...whatever NCSoft is in the mood for!

As much as I would like to believe it was solely NCSoft mandating the creation of these other projects, and ArenaNet simply drowning in demands, I can't. While it's highly possible NCSoft delegated that they needed to create more titles and merely stepping in when their deadline wasn't met, I get the feeling that someone(s) at ArenaNet may have delivered a concept or two, got it approved, and underestimated the work and resources that would need to be done. Though it is certainly much nicer to imagine that they wouldn't have been so lacking in passion for this franchise that they willingly shifted focus from this game to other titles.

battledrone.8315 · February 27, 2019

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
@battledrone.8315 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:GW2 is fine, Wildstar cost them tens of millions if not hundreds and was an unmitigated disaster that was aimed at an audience already entrenched in WOW using a dated raiding model and crass in game humour.

i doubt that, you can bet they would have closed it much sooner, if that was the casewhen it started tanking, they put it on maintenance mode, and let it bleed out slowlyseeing how fast they axed CoX, which still had a decent revenue, they wouldnt pay to keep the lights on in a known failureand their actions here supports that

Having 300 people only for maintenance mode is a bit much ^^But its true Gw2 need to get new players or reactivate old.

i was talking about wildstar, sorry for my grammar skills

battledrone.8315 · February 27, 2019

@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Let me just say to the devs, thank you for all your hard work. It's never a good thing to see people being laid off. Devs, at the end of the day, are working people like you and I.
That being said, NCSoft/Arenanet are NOT getting off the hook. Gw2 has been mismanaged over the years since release and now the chickens are coming home to roost. The push towards "esports", the rushed HoT expansion, rejection of gw1's combat system, lack of support for wvw/pvp, these are among some bad decisions taken over the years.
This brings me to something else. The modern game industry SICKENS me. The greed is just rampant. You got companies that aren't happy just making a profit, they want to cut corners and screw the developers and players just to scratch that last cent. Honestly, once games became more mainstream and accepted, that's when corporate suits and investors decided to get their tentacles on them and ruin them. You want corporate shenanigans at its finest, look at mobile gaming. HOT GARBAGE. Now, regarding this game, whether you believe expansions vs living world will be a thing for the future, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that NCSoft will bear some of the responsibility in the near future (like...take over!). As far as the fate of gw2 goes, well...whatever NCSoft is in the mood for!

As much as I would like to believe it was solely NCSoft mandating the creation of these other projects, and ArenaNet simply drowning in demands, I can't. While it's highly possible NCSoft delegated that they needed to create more titles and merely stepping in when their deadline wasn't met, I get the feeling that someone(s) at ArenaNet may have delivered a concept or two, got it approved, and underestimated the work and resources that would need to be done. Though it is certainly much nicer to imagine that they wouldn't have been so lacking in passion for this franchise that they willingly shifted focus from this game to other titles.

didnt anet claim to be their own masters? and even so, wouldnt ncsoft be against spending money on uncertain projects vs. profit maximizationin their current projects? this doesnt add up at all.

Dami.5046 · February 27, 2019

@"Ninutra.7926" said:Ok, so I need to throw out some thoughts buzzing in my head.(Emotional ramble ahead, might not make much sense).
I have been playing Aion since 2012, and I have had a fair interest in games from NCsoft for a while as well. I really don't care about raw numbers, but it's obvious that company is greedy beyond belief. What a surprise, games are a business.
Storytime: Aion was completely slaughtered when it started getting less profitable. Let me just say I loved that game, ok, it was the first MMO I have ever played, so my perception is surely skewed. HOWEVER: It was still utterly SLAUGHTERED. Heaps of content were flat out removed, removed! Years and years of people's hard work trashed, never to be seen again. People plead, begged, nothing. I swear in some later updates, it felt like the audio team was crying together with the players. And for the longest time, the game was progressively more pay to win, and draining wallets of the few people who remained loyal. Instead of making the game inspired and polishing its barely breathing potential, it was mercilessly held alive solely as a pathetic cash cow. When profits go down, future content suffers - gets made with the sole intent to suck the remaining pennies out of those still hanging on. As a result, everyone suffers.
Why am I going on about Aion? Well, because I don't trust that NCsoft will treat GW2 any better, now that I assume it will be more directly under their control. Money, money, money. I am not saying that GW2 doesn't produce that, but I am worried about its (hopefully) more distant future. Not the fact that it'll disappear, no. But how it will be treated when someone deems it no longer good enough.
Ofc no game can remain profitable forever blah blah, but they still deserve better. Wishful thinking, I know, to give the game and its creators a worthy and calm finish to a project. It does seem like I am painting the merger as a death sentence, but can you blame me? I have seen a game with so much potential being turned into a slave. It's not how art should be treated. Then again, games are treated as a business. Who cares about creators behind it, and how they feel, seeing their projects eventually becoming nothing more than something to make money off of. To some purely practical minds out there, it is the point of games, to make as much money as humanly possible, while originality and freedom of the creators takes a (very distant) second place. Soulless corporations treat games soullessly, all for players who treat games as soulless products. I wish my life was that easy, sometimes.
I am looking grim at the future, but I really HOPE that it holds something better in store for Anet and Guild Wars. I really do. I just fear that something I (and many others) care so much for, won't get the treatment it deserves. And it deserves so much better than this... the lay-offs, and a merger to top it off. Everything under the label of "NCsoft", and my mind's alarms are ringing at maximum volume. I hope it's just my PTSD, and not much to worry about after all.Still, the game's future isn't the worst part. It's the people it's about really, and what their future will be. And may they be treated well, with the respect they need. May this lay-off be the first and last one they'll ever experience.
Ramble over, rip.Tl;dr: Pray that GW2 and its devs don't get the same treatment as some other games from NCsoft in the future.

I don't know what Aion you played ( US or EU) but the publisher in the EU didn't exactly help. I lost years of work from server merges, only to find months down the line they were bringing up new servers. Their community team left little to be desired, and woe betide speaking to their support with their e-mail 'to calm down and eat some cake while we sort your issue out' It wasn't funny and I often thought they' laughed' at the players for being stupid enough to spend money on pixels.I do not want Nc to do an 'Aion' trust me.

Bast.7253 · February 27, 2019

@battledrone.8315 said:
@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Let me just say to the devs, thank you for all your hard work. It's never a good thing to see people being laid off. Devs, at the end of the day, are working people like you and I.
That being said, NCSoft/Arenanet are NOT getting off the hook. Gw2 has been mismanaged over the years since release and now the chickens are coming home to roost. The push towards "esports", the rushed HoT expansion, rejection of gw1's combat system, lack of support for wvw/pvp, these are among some bad decisions taken over the years.
This brings me to something else. The modern game industry SICKENS me. The greed is just rampant. You got companies that aren't happy just making a profit, they want to cut corners and screw the developers and players just to scratch that last cent. Honestly, once games became more mainstream and accepted, that's when corporate suits and investors decided to get their tentacles on them and ruin them. You want corporate shenanigans at its finest, look at mobile gaming. HOT GARBAGE. Now, regarding this game, whether you believe expansions vs living world will be a thing for the future, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that NCSoft will bear some of the responsibility in the near future (like...take over!). As far as the fate of gw2 goes, well...whatever NCSoft is in the mood for!

As much as I would like to believe it was solely NCSoft mandating the creation of these other projects, and ArenaNet simply drowning in demands, I can't. While it's highly possible NCSoft delegated that they needed to create more titles and merely stepping in when their deadline wasn't met, I get the feeling that someone(s) at ArenaNet may have delivered a concept or two, got it approved, and underestimated the work and resources that would need to be done. Though it is certainly much nicer to imagine that they wouldn't have been so lacking in passion for this franchise that they willingly shifted focus from this game to other titles.

didnt anet claim to be their own masters? and even so, wouldnt ncsoft be against spending money on uncertain projects vs. profit maximizationin their current projects? this doesnt add up at all.

I'm not sure I understand. I'm inferring that the projects were initiated by ArenaNet, with NCSoft more or less being merely the funding for said projects. At most, I could see NCSoft requesting ArenaNet to create some other IP's or merely to increase revenue however they saw fit, and ArenaNet either creating those new IP's or thinking the best way to increase to the desired revenue being to branch out with other games... but even that I don't think is the case.

I'm inferring that despite everyone wanting to blame NCSoft, I think it's whoever is in charge of making the decision to start creating these other games and then subsequently making the decision to shift focus and resources from their main product to these other games. I don't and never have worked in anything even remotely close to a game industry, so I can't even begin to fathom who would be in charge of a decision like this, but that's my guess.

And I don't know who the head of ArenaNet is right now, whether that's MIke O'Brien or someone else, but ultimately that's the person that I would hold responsible. Even if it isn't his fault, and the decision was made in belief and faith of the person he approved it for, I would imagine it still works its way up the chain of command.

Again, I used to have the impression that this company and everyone representing it was extremely passionate about what they do, and I believe they've stated that themselves. While that still may ring true, if it does for everyone, then the ones not working on Guild Wars 2 or the ones behind the decision to shift focus from it, must have had substantially more passion for these other projects.

I certainly don't believe that NCSoft told them exact specifics of the projects if they had any involvement with them at all, which leads to the conclusion of mismanagement yet again in the form of, lack of direction, poor time-management, overreaching with the concept, or whatever else it was that led to these projects being deemed not-worthy of resources and canceled, despite having the spotlight and potentially far more resources.

Without knowing the full picture, it's hard to say, and I doubt we'll ever get the full picture because 1. ArenaNet isn't likely to jeopardize their image by admitting fault. 2. ArenaNet isn't going to push blame to the NCSoft and risk being shut down or having their funding cut even more.

If Mike O was truly so blindsided by this in the position that he's walking around stricken with grief, then I DO blame NCSoft for being incompetent or careless enough to not make the circumstances apparent enough to Mike to give him enough time to prepare or consider ways to resolve the situation before now. Arguably though, still, you would think someone at ArenaNet would have at least a little foresight that this was a potential risk of devoting so much to those other projects. Especially if they've already potentially gone through many failed iterations or are nowhere near the timeline they expected. Though, they may have just anticipated they had much more time.

I think it's pretty fair to at least partially place blame on ArenaNet though. Especially as a consumer that's potentially been lead to believe that the game they support financially is receiving at least the majority of their support, which doesn't seem to be the case. Unless it has been, and they didn't delegate enough resources to the other projects and instead shifted their focus to making those projects as cheaply as possible, thus leading to some of the potential setbacks during production. But then you're left with a smaller staff with excess resources working on one game, and a larger portion of your staff divided amongst other projects working without enough resources to make the most of having all of that extra staff. Which would be another case of mismanagement and would be kind of an odd mistake for such a seasoned developer such as ArenaNet.

Again, who knows. I doubt we ever will. And I'm not sure that knowing would really matter or make much of a difference. The important thing is knowing the state of the game, the expected future of the game, and then finally seeing improvements in the future as a result.

To close this unintentionally long rant, as most of mine have been with this latest news, just because we have 100+ people leaving now, doesn't mean we won't have many more to follow of their own volition because they have lost morale or no longer believe in a future with ArenaNet. And if I were MIke O, that would certainly give me another reason to pace the room silently. Because then, not only do you have a nightmare of a hiring process, but you have rocky workflow and a game that's in a perpetual state of chaos amidst the already prevalent chaos involved with production. Just factor after factor compiled on until everyone collectively yells, "Jenga!" Because that, I can relate to, even in the mediocre job I have now. That is the straw that has led to a lot of my job dissatisfaction at least. You're always going to have new hires, people to train, and people to incorporate into the workflow, but when it becomes more and more frequent and you start looking up and seeing unfamiliar faces everytime, especially for a company that seems so tight-knit, it's going to be a major demotivator.. ontop of the harmful effects it will have on production. That's when the soul of the company devolves until it's just a peon doing the bidding of NCSoft and solely producing to meet the status quo.

Ninutra.7926 · February 27, 2019

@Dami.5046 said:
I don't know what Aion you played ( US or EU) but the publisher in the EU didn't exactly help. I lost years of work from server merges, only to find months down the line they were bringing up new servers. Their community team left little to be desired, and woe betide speaking to their support with their e-mail 'to calm down and eat some cake while we sort your issue out' It wasn't funny and I often thought they' laughed' at the players for being stupid enough to spend money on pixels.I do not want Nc to do an 'Aion' trust me.

I played both EU and NA, and yeah, Europe had it even worse (that's why I left for NA in 2015 (it didn't help)). I was happy for a time when they announced something akin to a Q&A, but it was pathetic. No consideration for players whatsoever, it was almost a parody of itself, and, like you said, even those who still literally gave them money were treated like lesser beings. At the same time, they obviously needed them to stay. What a bizarre mixture of pandering and loathing it was.

But this is exactly it. Drastic actions without consideration for people it will affect. My heart bleeds for Anet right now, if this continues like we have seen, players will be the next to feel that something has changed, both in quality of the game, and the communication and treatment they receive.

Hopefully not, hopefully not.

DontDoAion

Bloodstealer.5978 · February 27, 2019

@Vayne.8563 said:Star Wars ToR laid off 30% of their staff six months after the game launched. TSW laid off half their stuff. 25% of the staff, if you're trying to reorganize the company seems like a small percentage.
The company started with about 300 during development. It's up to almost 400 now. Laying off 100 people will bring the game to original launch levels. Some of those people were working on other projects as well, so I'm no t sure why everyone is running around yelling the sky is falling.

It's pretty normal for studios to shrink after release .. much of the shrinkage will be contracted staff and areas no longer required now that the heavy development of the core game etc has been completed. SWTOR was a big hit at launch, then again a massive IP helped with that and I was surprised it was 6-9 months before the shrinkage.. though SWTOR had other issues following launch that saw it require a lot of bandaiding, which could be a reason it took a little longer to shrink .. of course at around 12 months it reinvented itself into the F2P market, which might of always of been planned, but more likely the pretty big dip in subs may of had a hand in that and the continuing poor performance in areas like their flag 100v100 zone (shelved not long after).One thing I will say though, even after shedding staff and restructuring the business model and teams, SWTOR for me picked up a lot, I consider the same thing with Turbines DDO (at least until its was sold).I think what's happened at ANET will be a hard pill to swallow for a while, especially knowing some of the original expertise has been removed from the core, but as you say with ANET back to pre-release levels this might steer some reenergised focus back into the game, but what then for ANET with a game already 6yr+ in age. Even the top brass at NC Soft have acknowledge their ageing portfolio is seeing decline, which is why I do not hold this as anyone's mis-management, no one came into ANET one morning and decided move all these on the list to do this, without consultation with NC Soft.. it's more a case of the business in general needed to open new lines into the digital content market because as a company they were already seeing declining revenue across their current portfolio... but R&D is always a cost risk, which when added to economic pressures on the business every minute of the day got to a point that NC Soft had to make the decision to cut costs and R&D (and those associated with it) are always a one of the first targets in the crosshairs.I read that snippit from NC Soft that mentioned their Western Business was in a mess.. I wish there was more flesh on that bone to pick at, but that won't happen so what's left is pointing fingers without any actual knowledge of the internal decision makings of the company as a whole. What we know is that GW2 even with shuffled resource is profitable, or at least appears to be, so let's hope after the dust settles they can pick back up and push on again.It won't be the same undoubtedly, and it wont be easy.. but there is hope.

Jasonbdj.4021 · February 27, 2019

We will never know the truth about reason behind all of this as no one is not allowed to say otherwise they will be in deep trouble.

But we do know that Anet's focus was on other projects then GW2 which explains the downhill content and ignored fixes.

GW2 has sooo much potential compare to other mmorpgs (Tried other mmorpg, always end up coming back to GW2 full-time) however their attentions seems to be on mobile users, the crowd who would drop it like shit on fire for candy crush sage update?

GW2 has many loyal players and potential growth yet it seems that anet has lost their way dipping their toes somewhere else.

I think it is a good move for GW2 but it has cost great people and possibly their well-being :(

Overall the game is not dead, but will take time to see any progress while they recover from the dark times.

AlexxxDelta.1806 · February 27, 2019

I am wondering if any of those who think that the "good" NCsoft is coming to fix the mistakes of "bad" Anet, have ever played CoH or Aion in the past. It's not just about pulling the plug like CoH (which is unlikely), it's about the direction they want to steer a game they don't deem as profitable as they want. And anyone who has played Aion knows what is their approach, doubling down on monetization, increasing grind across the board to force cash store items, the standard fare you would expect. I am afraid in a year from now we may be looking at a case of "be careful what you wish for".

KrHome.1920 · February 27, 2019

@"JonSP.1940" said:Looking over NCSoft's financials (http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx), it looks like all their games took a bit of a nosedive in 2018.That's normal. Loot shooters are the new MMOs since 2018. Easy access, active gameplay, no time sinks, same reward structure.
GW2 seems to be one of their regular mid-range money-makersGW2 has a great combat mechanic which holds on its own pretty well in 2019. If they keep the content fresh and improve their balancing competence, this game can exist for many more years.

hellsqueen.3045 · February 27, 2019

@"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:I am wondering if any of those who think that the "good" NCsoft is coming to fix the mistakes of "bad" Anet, have ever played CoH or Aion in the past. It's not just about pulling the plug like CoH (which is unlikely), it's about the direction they want to steer a game they don't deem as profitable as they want. And anyone who has played Aion knows what is their approach, doubling down on monetization, increasing grind across the board to force cash store items, the standard fare you would expect. I am afraid in a year from now we may be looking at a case of "be careful what you wish for".

We already have fairly strong monetization schemes in GW2 already.We know there are people splurging tons of money on the gem store.They don't need to change what we have in this regard, especially because these kinds of changes could absolutely result in tons of player out rage and people leaving the game far sooner than expected. You have to know your target audience, I know my guild and I wouldn't touch anymore gem store items with our own money if all we had to show from the merger was more invasive money making tactics.I play this game because I love it and loved about the way they went for money making because for I only have to pay for expansions, cosmetics, quality of life tools and account upgrades. There are no subscriptions on top of a game I already paid for, it is optional bonuses that I'll happily pay for.

I would also suggest they perhaps lower the price on certain account upgrades. They require no amount of design, they are already the way they are and people are always eager for bank tab and material storage upgrades and if they were a little more attainable in price, you could like increase purchases on them.

Danicus.4952 · March 2, 2019

Thank you Anet Devs for the years of fun Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 brought my family and friends.

It's fairly easy to see where the talent bleed and ultimately the resulting terminations were derived from.

"Don't you guys all have mobile phones?"

This was damage control from the backlash that the ANET customer base would have had to a mobile offering GW side project.

I don't think the spatial mobility mechanics of GW2 would translate well to mobile.

Phone offering monetization is just to sexy to ignore.

Squirrel.6318 · March 3, 2019

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:I feel like they haven't really listened to our community. They don't really cater to the community. I've known them since GW1 prophecies came out. Gaile gray has been the ONLY one that has consistently reported or talked to the community for all these long years.
I was a hardcore supporter for them during the GW1 years, defended them so many times, but since GW2 came out, I definitely do not like the company anymore. There aren't really any major improvements to the game. Regarding major improvements, GW1 had alliances and faction wars when Factions came out, and then Nightfall had the hero system. Then EOTN added a whole bunch of content + the dungeons, I believe there were like 20 of them.
What did we get in GW2 in 6-7 years? gliders and mounts..............
I can't remember what happened, I think some major guys left the company when GW2 was released. edit: yeah it was two co-founders that left. I'm pretty sure that made a huge difference.

Those 'two co-founders' (both left ArenaNet and went to work at NCSoft West and subsequently left a year later) left ArenaNet long (2008) before Guild Wars 2 was released.You can easily find this information in the GW2 Wiki, the GW Wiki, or even Wikipedia.

Thus, probably didn't make a 'huge difference'.

You mean the opposite, this means they most likely did not have any part of GW2, which could be the reason why GW1 was way better developed and planned out better. The development of GW2 has been an absolute mess. While GW1 was clearly planned and developed more professionally.

Interesting.. why do believe the development of GW2 to of been an absolute mess.. I actually think it was developed, rolled out and moved on much better than GW1.. but I guess that comes down to personal perception rather than actual fact.

GW1 accomplished so much in ONLY 2 years. 3 full campaigns + 1 expansion, all including major features - 4 new professions, 2 new continents, alliances, faction wars, 20+ dungeons, hero system, like i'm not sure how many skills, but maybe 1000 new skills, there was like 10+ guild halls in total.

GW2 accomplished very little in 7 years. Like what major features did we get in GW2 in 7 years? 1 new profession, specializations, gliding, and mounts. It shouldn't have taken 5 years to get mounts. Their highlight when promoting GW2 was "innovation!!!" we haven't seen innovation since it came out. We still get the EXACT same boring heart quests as we did since the game released for example. WvW is still exactly the same.

Bloodstealer.5978 · March 3, 2019

@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:I feel like they haven't really listened to our community. They don't really cater to the community. I've known them since GW1 prophecies came out. Gaile gray has been the ONLY one that has consistently reported or talked to the community for all these long years.
I was a hardcore supporter for them during the GW1 years, defended them so many times, but since GW2 came out, I definitely do not like the company anymore. There aren't really any major improvements to the game. Regarding major improvements, GW1 had alliances and faction wars when Factions came out, and then Nightfall had the hero system. Then EOTN added a whole bunch of content + the dungeons, I believe there were like 20 of them.
What did we get in GW2 in 6-7 years? gliders and mounts..............
I can't remember what happened, I think some major guys left the company when GW2 was released. edit: yeah it was two co-founders that left. I'm pretty sure that made a huge difference.

Those 'two co-founders' (both left ArenaNet and went to work at NCSoft West and subsequently left a year later) left ArenaNet long (2008) before Guild Wars 2 was released.You can easily find this information in the GW2 Wiki, the GW Wiki, or even Wikipedia.

Thus, probably didn't make a 'huge difference'.

You mean the opposite, this means they most likely did not have any part of GW2, which could be the reason why GW1 was way better developed and planned out better. The development of GW2 has been an absolute mess. While GW1 was clearly planned and developed more professionally.

Interesting.. why do believe the development of GW2 to of been an absolute mess.. I actually think it was developed, rolled out and moved on much better than GW1.. but I guess that comes down to personal perception rather than actual fact.

GW1 accomplished so much in ONLY 2 years. 3 full campaigns + 1 expansion, all including major features - 4 new professions, 2 new continents, alliances, faction wars, 20+ dungeons, hero system, like i'm not sure how many skills, but maybe 1000 new skills, there was like 10+ guild halls in total.

GW2 accomplished very little in 7 years. Like what major features did we get in GW2 in 7 years? 1 new profession, specializations, gliding, and mounts. It shouldn't have taken 5 years to get mounts. Their highlight when promoting GW2 was "innovation!!!" we haven't seen innovation since it came out. We still get the EXACT same boring heart quests as we did since the game released for example. WvW is still exactly the same.

Far less complexity within GW2. The maps alone in GW1, as nice as they were (something we have come to expect nothing less of from ANET) were far less complex in make up. Aside form PvP the game was predominantly fetch quests, market trading was.. well a joke and the games (as much as I enjoyed them) were offered in isolation they were not really seamless.GW1 at the time was very good, it offered a whole new type of business model within an expanding sub based MMO market and it worked, no doubt about it.. but that was many, many years ago and GW2 offers much more diversity within the game and not just it's game modes. GW2 is far more complex, I mean just map exploration is a whole new concept without even going into jump, dodge, mounts,.Skills.. yeah I agree the sheer amount of skills was staggering in GW1 in comparison, yet it still gravitated to the few "must be metas" and left much of those skills to gather dust.. there was simply far too many to be realistically workable unless you had unlimited amounts of time you could spend theory crafting.. though I will say they did allow for some fun builds, awful builds and aside form the "must be builds" not much else imo.GW2, though lacking in the build variances that we were spoiled with in GW1 does work well even if balance has been left to fester for long periods across the modes.. but then GW1 balance must of been an absolute mare to undertake and keep control of.. thankfully the game only really catered for 2 things.. fetch questing and relatively new pvp play with some large scale fights along the way.Developing GW2 core and then pushing that into areas like HoT and PvP with different challenges just in exploration as a start I think has been one of the bigger wins for GW2.

At the end of the day its down to personal opinion, we just have differing views on how then and now come together .. or not perhaps.Personally though I don't see GW2 development being a mess anymore than GW1 was, just different in make up and complexity. they were/are both beasts, but both offer a lot for your money.

Squirrel.6318 · March 3, 2019

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:I feel like they haven't really listened to our community. They don't really cater to the community. I've known them since GW1 prophecies came out. Gaile gray has been the ONLY one that has consistently reported or talked to the community for all these long years.
I was a hardcore supporter for them during the GW1 years, defended them so many times, but since GW2 came out, I definitely do not like the company anymore. There aren't really any major improvements to the game. Regarding major improvements, GW1 had alliances and faction wars when Factions came out, and then Nightfall had the hero system. Then EOTN added a whole bunch of content + the dungeons, I believe there were like 20 of them.
What did we get in GW2 in 6-7 years? gliders and mounts..............
I can't remember what happened, I think some major guys left the company when GW2 was released. edit: yeah it was two co-founders that left. I'm pretty sure that made a huge difference.

Those 'two co-founders' (both left ArenaNet and went to work at NCSoft West and subsequently left a year later) left ArenaNet long (2008) before Guild Wars 2 was released.You can easily find this information in the GW2 Wiki, the GW Wiki, or even Wikipedia.

Thus, probably didn't make a 'huge difference'.

You mean the opposite, this means they most likely did not have any part of GW2, which could be the reason why GW1 was way better developed and planned out better. The development of GW2 has been an absolute mess. While GW1 was clearly planned and developed more professionally.

Interesting.. why do believe the development of GW2 to of been an absolute mess.. I actually think it was developed, rolled out and moved on much better than GW1.. but I guess that comes down to personal perception rather than actual fact.

GW1 accomplished so much in ONLY 2 years. 3 full campaigns + 1 expansion, all including major features - 4 new professions, 2 new continents, alliances, faction wars, 20+ dungeons, hero system, like i'm not sure how many skills, but maybe 1000 new skills, there was like 10+ guild halls in total.

GW2 accomplished very little in 7 years. Like what major features did we get in GW2 in 7 years? 1 new profession, specializations, gliding, and mounts. It shouldn't have taken 5 years to get mounts. Their highlight when promoting GW2 was "innovation!!!" we haven't seen innovation since it came out. We still get the EXACT same boring heart quests as we did since the game released for example. WvW is still exactly the same.

Far less complexity within GW2. The maps alone in GW1, as nice as they were (something we have come to expect nothing less of from ANET) were far less complex in make up. Aside form PvP the game was predominantly fetch quests, market trading was.. well a joke and the games (as much as I enjoyed them) were offered in isolation they were not really seamless.GW1 at the time was very good, it offered a whole new type of business model within an expanding sub based MMO market and it worked, no doubt about it.. but that was many, many years ago and GW2 offers much more diversity within the game and not just it's game modes. GW2 is far more complex, I mean just map exploration is a whole new concept without even going into jump, dodge, mounts,.Skills.. yeah I agree the sheer amount of skills was staggering in GW1 in comparison, yet it still gravitated to the few "must be metas" and left much of those skills to gather dust.. there was simply far too many to be realistically workable unless you had unlimited amounts of time you could spend theory crafting.. though I will say they did allow for some fun builds, awful builds and aside form the "must be builds" not much else imo.GW2, though lacking in the build variances that we were spoiled with in GW1 does work well even if balance has been left to fester for long periods across the modes.. but then GW1 balance must of been an absolute mare to undertake and keep control of.. thankfully the game only really catered for 2 things.. fetch questing and relatively new pvp play with some large scale fights along the way.Developing GW2 core and then pushing that into areas like HoT and PvP with different challenges just in exploration as a start I think has been one of the bigger wins for GW2.

At the end of the day its down to personal opinion, we just have differing views on how then and now come together .. or not perhaps.Personally though I don't see GW2 development being a mess anymore than GW1 was, just different in make up and complexity. they were/are both beasts, but both offer a lot for your money.

The complexity of GW1 vs GW2 is irrelevant. Technology is much more better, Arenanet has a far larger team, and is much better financially. The people at management are at fault here.

The game was not fetch quests, fetch quests were in there but so insignificant, GW2 has much more fetch quests... The game was 100% story though. I've played through each one like 4 times lol, that's how much I loved them.

The market trading, i'm not sure how you could say that was a joke.... I loved it. It forced player to player communication. You would haggle like a real bazaar. Comparing to GW2... there is very little player to player communication.

But most of your paragraphs are just comparisons of the games, I was talking about the development of the games themselves. Development of GW1 was clearly planned very well and in a very small timeframe. 4 FULL products in 2 years. Which makes sense financially for an MMO with no subscription, the more products they release, the more that is available for players who love the game to buy. I bought all 3 collections editions for prophecies, factions, and nightfall. Whoever called the shots managing GW1 knew what he was doing. I felt I got my moneys worth. I cannot say the same for HoT or PoF... not even close. And living stories don't make money.

And 3D movement is no argument, an amatuer can create a basic game and map with 3d jump movement.

If we are talking coRPG vs MMORPG development, and that's the reason why it takes so long to develop things... that's hardly an argument for slow development, WoW releases much larger expansions with much more features every 1-2 years, FF14 releases expansions every 2 years.

Inculpatus cedo.9234 · March 3, 2019

I'm sure with 4000+ employees (like the above example), ArenaNet would be able to release expansions every 2 years without issue, as well.

Bloodstealer.5978 · March 4, 2019

@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:
@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
@Squirrel.6318 said:I feel like they haven't really listened to our community. They don't really cater to the community. I've known them since GW1 prophecies came out. Gaile gray has been the ONLY one that has consistently reported or talked to the community for all these long years.
I was a hardcore supporter for them during the GW1 years, defended them so many times, but since GW2 came out, I definitely do not like the company anymore. There aren't really any major improvements to the game. Regarding major improvements, GW1 had alliances and faction wars when Factions came out, and then Nightfall had the hero system. Then EOTN added a whole bunch of content + the dungeons, I believe there were like 20 of them.
What did we get in GW2 in 6-7 years? gliders and mounts..............
I can't remember what happened, I think some major guys left the company when GW2 was released. edit: yeah it was two co-founders that left. I'm pretty sure that made a huge difference.