Build templates in WvW

[Trinnitty.8256]

Ok so we now know build templates are being developed by anet. We know that build templates were discouraged from wvw so that people aren't able to flip a build once out of combat and quickly return to battle and counter someone aka Roamers. Ok, I get that and can under stand how it would be abused somewhat. But I think we should be allowed to atleast have build templates work in our spawn areas so we can organize and do things quickly. Whether it be there be a giant square to stand in or just inside spawn as long as you have that invulnerable buff, please allow wvw players to use build templates. Just want it to be done right when it gets released someday and not have to wait for an outcry for wvw community and wait another year :)

[Trinnitty.8256]

Oh and I don't want to be forced to buy that new lounge area in wvw for build templates to only work there either.

[steki.1478]

Arcdps templates already work in owned territory, but they have delayed actions so the full build change takes up to 15-20 seconds. It also requires you being out of combat so there's no way to abuse it.

Build templates should be global, regardless of game mode.

[Dawdler.8521]

As I see it there are two "exploits" for it: going out of combat and quickly swapping for something better with fighting your targets or swapping quickly right before combat (ie zerg->roamer). The former is easy to stop - just add a 1-2 minute cooldown after exiting combat or something. The later... trickier. Restrictions like only being able to use it in spawn makes it fairly useless. What if you just want to use it inside garri or something? Wont do with spawn.

What I would imagine it working is like an actual skill. It takes 20s to channel and get interrupted by combat, plus say that 2 minute cooldown upon going out of combat. That would solve both sides of the "flipping" build to gain a quick advantage over the enemy, but it doesnt really have any restrictions to where you can use it. Still an easier way to flip between preset builds than doing everything manually.

Buuuuut I'm fairly sure Anet wont do anything like that. Prolly cause there is no place to put that skill lol. I do believe just an instant unrestricted build template flip will be heavily exploited by people setting up condi/power/bunker/dps counter-builds.

[Blocki.4931]

It should just function with loadouts like outfits do imo. As long as you carry the necessary items around.

Could also be with a system that other games have for swapping weapons, where you simply have your character and equipment but in the top there is a I or II to indicate which "set" you're on. I don't expect it to have any "delay" to it other than actually equipping the items, so a slight stutter?

[mixxed.5862]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:As I see it there are two "exploits" for it: going out of combat and quickly swapping for something better with fighting your targets or swapping quickly right before combat (ie zerg->roamer). The former is easy to stop - just add a 1-2 minute cooldown after exiting combat or something. The later... trickier. Restrictions like only being able to use it in spawn makes it fairly useless. What if you just want to use it inside garri or something? Wont do with spawn.

What I would imagine it working is like an actual skill. It takes 20s to channel and get interrupted by combat, plus say that 2 minute cooldown upon going out of combat. That would solve both sides of the "flipping" build to gain a quick advantage over the enemy, but it doesnt really have any restrictions to where you can use it. Still an easier way to flip between preset builds than doing everything manually.

Buuuuut I'm fairly sure Anet wont do anything like that. Prolly cause there is no place to put that skill lol. I do believe just an instant unrestricted build template flip will be heavily exploited by people setting up condi/power/bunker/dps counter-builds.

I don't see a big problem with swapping builds on the fly. Everyone can swap to a roaming set-up while alone and be back on the zerg load-out once they've catched up. There's nothing unfair about it. It enables more flexibility to adapt to fights of varying size and encourages swapping out your build on the spot so you can engage that player you'd otherwise need to run from (on your warclaw...).

I don't think counter picking for every 1v1 will be a big thing. When you roam on your core warrior you don't want to play spellbreaker. Furthermore, most builds can already adapt for condi/power just by switching out a utility skill and maybe a trait. Even if some experienced roamers end up using the system to their advantage, if they come prepared and adapt their build correctly to every situation - it's just another skill to master! Though a short cooldown upon leaving combat sounds reasonable.

[Jski.6180]

I like to seem them as full reset and out of combat only. No boons carrying over and no resources carrying over.

[hunkamania.7561]

Most hardcores will have the arcdps build templates so it's nothing new really. What's the point of adding something like this when someone did the work for free like that dx12 mod? lol

[sephiroth.4217]

Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

[rng.1024]

Why are everyone acting like you can go from full dps to full tank after swapping?

The only thing that will swap are traits (low impact) and skills (mutually exclusive to eachother).

You want different weaps?Regular swap.You want different stats?Still needs to be changed ooc like before, piece by piece - no different from today.

If you can down a warrior in 1 second, he will go down in 1+4(endure pain) after swapping to defensive traitlines but keeping the same gear. This really isn't that big of a deal as long as statswapping and weapon changes has to be done manually and out of combat.

You can already swap your traits and skills within seconds if you have fast fingers anyways - templates just allow for less micromanaging in panels/UI and more gameplay.

[Dawdler.8521]

@rng.1024 said:The only thing that will swap are traits (low impact) and skills (mutually exclusive to eachother).Then there would be no point to a build template, guess thats why we assume it.

[Spartacus.3192]

Thats why i enjoy playing power rev in WvW. i can manually change my build from zerg to roamer and vice versa in under 10 seconds.

[rng.1024]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"rng.1024" said:The only thing that will swap are traits (low impact) and skills (mutually exclusive to eachother).Then there would be no point to a build template, guess thats why we assume it.

Yeah but you have to remember anet do not store items for clients (as evidenced by multiple support tickets) and therefore the items you use must be placed and held somewhere.

This is why an item has to be removed in order to be recreated (accidental deletion of items), and why they do not refund gems used on something other than the alleged purchase. In other terms they do not "create" something new, only replace the void by what is missing. This has been 100% consistent since release.

Therefore it's very safe to assume you will not be able to swap armor pieces from nowhere to match your desired stats.

The way I see it there are 2 reasonable solutions:

• Like with mounts, you can select a few templates with their own slots for gear pieces. You put a piece in, just like when equipping armor, and it stays there until removed again. It would basically be like having multiple characters but with the same base character model transferring between them as you swap. We're looking at an extension of the hero panel screen. However this method would devalue legendary armor and weapon functionality.
• Another way to introduce it would be to use the account bank. Items stored in here could be available for equipping, like a piece-by-piece bank express vendor only limited by your bank space. A great way to spike gem-sales, but yet again we face the issue of devaluing legendary gear and it's statswapping functionality.

It's also fair to assume that build templates won't be exclusive to legendary gear based on the developer philosophies. So where does legendary gear fit in? Because if it doesn't they need to fundamentally change the core functionality of an already established mechanic.

This pretty much leaves us with the compromise of only allowing legendary gear the stat changing functionality of templates being the most logical solution. Let's assume we get 3 templates for 3 different builds. Without legendary gear you will need 3 separate gearsets. However with legendary gear you will only need 1 set, as it can be all 3. But in both cases you have access to 3 templates. This way legendary rarity do not lose out.

This method, combined with either way of storage (Several hero equip panels pretty much the same as gathering tools/jewels or a bag-character in order to "deposit" items out of sight for later use, or in bank since legendary gear will take up 1/3 of the space) have all the requirements for easy implementation.

To be honest I would even bet on the banking method since:a) We already have bank express itemsb) We have novelty tabsc) The hero panel is probably made up of spagetthi code anywaysd) Massive gem revenue from bank slot upgrades

So the chances of it being random, or with a groundbreaking new functionality is low. It will cost more money to develop, take longer to implement and might require revisions further down the line. These are my coppers.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

A build template cannot be just for skills and traits, not for GW2.

In GW1 we could have templates just for skills and attributes because gear was less of a fundamental part of it, and was even easier to obtain. Except for very niche builds, most builds would not work in drastically different ways because of using a different weapon prefix or rune.

In GW2, stats and upgrades can change a build so much that they have to be part of templates.

Also, there's so many different stats and upgrades that templates would only be truly useful if there was a way to unlock those stats and upgrades for the account. Much like we would be able to do so for PvP templates.

[Safandula.8723]

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is crap without build templates

[sephiroth.4217]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

[Svarty.8019]

@mixxed.5862 said:I don't think counter picking for every 1v1 will be a big thing.

Oh really?

[Safandula.8723]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

And u lose shiton of time on that, that's why this qol is needed. Changing each gear is 2 min. Do it 5 times per day and u lost 10 min. Do it 6 times a week and u lost 1 full hour on only changing gear.And again, this change is rly needed for ppl with leg gear

[mixxed.5862]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@mixxed.5862 said:I don't think counter picking for every 1v1 will be a big thing.

Oh really?

Yep!

[sephiroth.4217]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

And u lose shiton of time on that, that's why this qol is needed. Changing each gear is 2 min. Do it 5 times per day and u lost 10 min. Do it 6 times a week and u lost 1 full hour on only changing gear.And again, this change is rly needed for ppl with leg gear

I dont lose much time at all actually..Where I waste time on this game is emptying bags, opening a box to get 4 bags, 3 satchels and a box and open those to get more bags, satchels and boxes, takes about half hour just to clear inventory so I can continue playing.. This is where I get lazy and delete all my loot even if its exotics or something valuable, I even wish there was an option to turn off loot so I could just enjoy the game play for what it is.

So I stick with my previous opinion, Im fine spending 2 minutes at most to switch gear and traits on the fly.

[Balsa.3951]

I don’t think bts need restrictions in. Wvw compare to pve. Most ppl know also what game type they want join Zerg roam or defending. There will be not many who swap builds often no matter how easy it is after we have that ability.

It’s more for u come to wvw sees map is empty than roam sees commander goes Zerg mode or just simple joint from pve and now switch gear

[Balsa.3951]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im fine spending 2 minutes swapping gear and traits, not sure why we even need templates to begin with outside of being lazy.

How many builds are u using at 1 character? Belive me, using multiple builds while having leg armor is kitten without build templates

My light classes have Ascended Viper, Celestial and berserker gear to swap around depending on what I'm doing..

My Mediums have Valk and Berserker to play with.

My heavies have Minstrel and Berserker to play with.

I have 32 characters and play what I feel like at the time and after each session I bank everything..Sometimes I want to be a norn, other times I want to be asura, sometimes im male and sometimes Im female, just depends on the mood.

And u lose shiton of time on that, that's why this qol is needed. Changing each gear is 2 min. Do it 5 times per day and u lost 10 min. Do it 6 times a week and u lost 1 full hour on only changing gear.And again, this change is rly needed for ppl with leg gear

I dont lose much time at all actually..Where I waste time on this game is emptying bags, opening a box to get 4 bags, 3 satchels and a box and open those to get more bags, satchels and boxes, takes about half hour just to clear inventory so I can continue playing.. This is where I get lazy and delete all my loot even if its exotics or something valuable, I even wish there was an option to turn off loot so I could just enjoy the game play for what it is.

So I stick with my previous opinion, Im fine spending 2 minutes at most to switch gear and traits on the fly.

U can turn off auto loot ... but I highly recommend u loot and get bigger bags instead

[Zephyra.4709]

inb4 this happens...

Community: WE WAN BULD TEMPLETZ SO WE CAN CHENGE FAST WHEN EVA WE WAN!!Anet: gives out build templatesCommunity: NO THIS 2 OP NED NERF MUST TEK 30 SEC TO CHENGE BULD + ONLY TRAITS + SKILS + ONLY AT NIGHT TIME GET RID O BULD TEMPLETZ!!!Anet: surprised pikachu face

[bq pd.2148]

@Zephyra.4709 said:inb4 this happens...

Community: WE WAN BULD TEMPLETZ SO WE CAN CHENGE FAST WHEN EVA WE WAN!!Anet: gives out build templatesCommunity: NO THIS 2 OP NED NERF MUST TEK 30 SEC TO CHENGE BULD + ONLY TRAITS + SKILS +ONLY AT NIGHT TIME GET RID O BULD TEMPLETZ!!!Anet: surprised pikachu face

... + yellow warning text for when night starts/ends like in verdant brink!

[DemonSeed.3528]

inb4 build template min maxing :trollface: