[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[DeWolfe.2174]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@"Kidel.2057" said:However at the point where you have to make/buy a 22 charged quartz (timegated) to feed the skyscale 12 times with a limit of 3 times per day (timegated), that's just trolling

you can buy the finished items on tp

Buy them at insanely elevated pricing you mean??? Creating a "Scavenger Hunt" is one thing, involving hard to farm materials that you'll have to buy on the TP is just screwing over every player but a few. The time gating itself has divided the player based into haves and have not's as it prevents those who didn't finish before reset on the first day from ever catching up. Now, those few who were able to play during the day of the patch dropping will always get to see the collection requirements before anyone else. That gives them an exclusive opportunity to horde materials from the TP.

For a game the tries to pride itself on building a community, it sure does a great job at driving us apart.

The argument fails when you could just pay attention to the latest reddit news on what which will be needed so you can buy it while still relatively cheap, before the masses catches on.

The "masses" catches on????? All it takes it one TP Baron to wipe out the supply on the TP.

[LucianDK.8615]

The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

[Obtena.7952]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I didn't skip it ... I just didn't think it was relevant. Any argument where the premise is that there isn't a reason for time gating is not worth discussing to begin with. That doesn't make sense with the reality of the game. If you can't acknowledge there is a reason for it, your argument is dead in the water because it clearly opposes the reason Anet used it, whatever that reason is.

Like I told the other guy ... this isn't about who's right or wrong on time gating. It's about coming to some understanding that there is a reason for Anet to use it. If you want to make a case for why time gating is bad in this case, you can't assume off the start there isn't a reason to use it.

The problem here isn't that people aren't seeing a reason they're using time-gating. The problem is that you're seeing the reason

you

think ANet is doing this, and refusing to think they're doing it for any other reason.

Um, no ... I'm not claiming to see the reason why Anet is doing this nor have I ever claimed to know ... I just know they have one, whatever it may be because it's extra work for them to implement time gated content. No one would given themselves extra work for no reason.

[Fengzhou.9853]

@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:Hi everyone,

I wanted to provide a brief update after talking to various developers. We’re aware of the concerns expressed in this thread. The team is currently regrouping and we’re aiming to communicate more about this topic as soon as we possibly can.

In the meantime, we're pushing a hotfix that will include hiding the skyscale Mastery line for players who have not acquired the skyscale so that they will continue to gain Mastery experience toward acquiring Spirit Shards.

We're also working on another hotfix coming later that will alleviate issues with finishing the Skyscale of Ice achievement in Frostgorge Sound by making the Corrupted Ice Elementals near the Claw of Jormag event respawn regularly. These creatures can encase you in ice and progress the Skyscale of Ice achievement. This is a temporary fix until we can get something more permanent.

Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Thanks for some communication with the players about this. One of the few games I play that actually has some sorts of communication between players and dev teams left.

[Ashen.2907]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Nyarlathotep.4350 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

Just start a new thread about players wasting xp when they haven't completed their masteries, or post in one of the existing threads on that topic. It is a much broader issue that has been discussed since the mastery system was introduced. But don't mention the new mount, I think pretty much any thread on that topic is going to get merged in the current environment . . .

Merging everything is just going to make everything even messier...I don't know what they are thinking. But it is hard to create a thread without even mentioning the things that is making it an issue. Maybe if I use obscure nicknames for the mount and timegate or something... :T

Perhaps your original complaint was disingenuous then? Are you complaining about the fact that xp is wasted when masteries aren't complete, or are you complaining that the time gated skyscale collection is preventing you from completing your masteries? You can certainly discuss the former without discussing the latter, as there were many threads on the subject long before this episode's release . . .

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Thundabolt.8541 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.Ty, exactly my point. I was illustrating how your personal experience is a poor argument for making changes to the game bc the personal experiences of others (me) will be counter to yours and of equal value. If you are looking to make a change to the game, only arguments about how it will affect the game will be persuasive, the individual experience is irrelevant . . .@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?No . . .

Ok then.

The larger a business' satisfied customer base the greater that business' potential to monetize that customer base. If a business identifies an element of (one of) its product(s) that can be tweaked to generater greater good will among the paying customer base then that tweak, particularly, as pointed out, as those enjoying the current implementation would retain their preferred approach to enjoying the product, is a good idea.

I think you may be responding to something other than what you quoted. If you'll read back up the two proposals were a time gate where players play a little each day and quit, or no time gate where players play a lot for one day and quit. Players playing less sounds bad for your hypothetical business there :)

The person you had quoted suggested that the hypothetical player could get the mount without the time gate and continue to play, not that they would leave. You asked how it would be an improvement for a player to finish the collection quickly and then leave, but that was your hypothetical, the exact opposite of what he suggested.

[Gop.8713]

@Absconditus.6804 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Absconditus.6804 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

The harm it causes is burning players out within just a few days. I am in this boat. Due to the nature of the timegating being tied to needing to complete the previous stage before a daily reset, I feel compelled to push myself through collecting all the collectibles within just a single sitting, whereas otherwise I may have naturally spread it out over a few days as I did other content. That tires me and I barely feel like playing at the moment. I am just logging in and doing it to do it. Getting it to get it. There's no drive to do that other content anymore because I am spending so much time collecting the collectibles. Afterwards I just want to log out the moment that stupid timegate wall hits me. I've done my

job

for the day, time to clock out and go home to relax.This just doesn't make any sense to me. You're 'burned out' from completing a small portion of the collection so your solution is to make more of it available all at once? I'm not saying you don't feel this way, I'm just saying it doesn't make any rational sense and so will not be compelling to others . . .

I'll just kindly ask you to read what I wrote one more time. You

clearly

miss the part where I write that due to the daily reset requirement being there to unlock the following stage of the larger collection, psychologically this pushes me towards burning myself out on doing the collection in one sitting, rather than

naturally

spreading it out and doing it when I want to do it.Yes, I read it again and it still makes no sense. What you are saying is that you are irrational and you want the game to change for everyone to accommodate you. And yet here I am trying to reason with you . . .The better question is, in what possible way would it negatively affect

you

who don't mind the timegate, if it weren't there? Why are certain people being pro-timegate, how is it benefiting them. How is it rewarding them. What is it about it that makes it worth defending? I have yet to see anyone defending it provide a reason as to what's so great about the timegate,

for them

. How is it elevating your gameplay experience so much that you need to defend it.Nothing I'm about to say is being said for the first time, but I know with all the merging of threads and just the mass of posts it can be hard to keep up. How I am affected by the time gate is irrelevant. The game should not change based on my experience, bc the game is not just for me. As with any proposed change to the game, preserving the status quo requires no justification bc it consumes no development time. Changing the game in any way does require justification bc it does require development time and that is a zero sum game. Any time they spend 'fixing' this total nonissue is time they do not spend on anything else. And finally, when the community is in a constant state of histrionics over the issue of the week it makes that much more difficult for legitimate issues to be identified, let alone given the development time it takes to address them . . .

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Obtena.7952 said:

Um, no ... I'm not claiming to see the reason why Anet is doing this nor have I ever claimed to know ... I just know they have one, whatever it may be because it's extra work for them to implement time gated content. No one would given themselves extra work for no reason.

So if you don't even know the point you're arguing, why are you trying to argue it? :confused:

[Gop.8713]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Nyarlathotep.4350 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

Just start a new thread about players wasting xp when they haven't completed their masteries, or post in one of the existing threads on that topic. It is a much broader issue that has been discussed since the mastery system was introduced. But don't mention the new mount, I think pretty much any thread on that topic is going to get merged in the current environment . . .

Merging everything is just going to make everything even messier...I don't know what they are thinking. But it is hard to create a thread without even mentioning the things that is making it an issue. Maybe if I use obscure nicknames for the mount and timegate or something... :T

Perhaps your original complaint was disingenuous then? Are you complaining about the fact that xp is wasted when masteries aren't complete, or are you complaining that the time gated skyscale collection is preventing you from completing your masteries? You can certainly discuss the former without discussing the latter, as there were many threads on the subject long before this episode's release . . .

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Thundabolt.8541 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.Ty, exactly my point. I was illustrating how your personal experience is a poor argument for making changes to the game bc the personal experiences of others (me) will be counter to yours and of equal value. If you are looking to make a change to the game, only arguments about how it will affect the game will be persuasive, the individual experience is irrelevant . . .@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?No . . .

Ok then.

The larger a business' satisfied customer base the greater that business' potential to monetize that customer base. If a business identifies an element of (one of) its product(s) that can be tweaked to generater greater good will among the paying customer base then that tweak, particularly, as pointed out, as those enjoying the current implementation would retain their preferred approach to enjoying the product, is a good idea.

I think you may be responding to something other than what you quoted. If you'll read back up the two proposals were a time gate where players play a little each day and quit, or no time gate where players play a lot for one day and quit. Players playing less sounds bad for your hypothetical business there :)

The person you had quoted suggested that the hypothetical player could get the mount without the time gate and continue to play, not that they would leave. You asked how it would be an improvement for a player to finish the collection quickly and then leave, but that was your hypothetical, the exact opposite of what he suggested.

I think you need to go back and look at that again. The player I quoted said that if there is nothing more to offer than an artificial time gate they would leave, and I asked what the benefit of removing the time gate would be if that was the case. There is a lot of nesting there but you seem to have confused at least one poster with another . . .

[Ashen.2907]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

Um, no ... I'm not claiming to see the reason why Anet is doing this nor have I ever claimed to know ... I just know they have one, whatever it may be because it's extra work for them to implement time gated content. No one would given themselves extra work for no reason.

So if you don't even know the point you're arguing, why are you trying to argue it? :confused:

His point is that there is a reason even if none of us know for sure what it is. That is a valid point.

On the other hand, having a reason for doing something doesnt make it a good thing to do.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

Who at Anet thought it was an intelligent idea to timegate the new mount? Lol XD

[Ashen.2907]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Nyarlathotep.4350 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

Just start a new thread about players wasting xp when they haven't completed their masteries, or post in one of the existing threads on that topic. It is a much broader issue that has been discussed since the mastery system was introduced. But don't mention the new mount, I think pretty much any thread on that topic is going to get merged in the current environment . . .

Merging everything is just going to make everything even messier...I don't know what they are thinking. But it is hard to create a thread without even mentioning the things that is making it an issue. Maybe if I use obscure nicknames for the mount and timegate or something... :T

Perhaps your original complaint was disingenuous then? Are you complaining about the fact that xp is wasted when masteries aren't complete, or are you complaining that the time gated skyscale collection is preventing you from completing your masteries? You can certainly discuss the former without discussing the latter, as there were many threads on the subject long before this episode's release . . .

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Thundabolt.8541 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.Ty, exactly my point. I was illustrating how your personal experience is a poor argument for making changes to the game bc the personal experiences of others (me) will be counter to yours and of equal value. If you are looking to make a change to the game, only arguments about how it will affect the game will be persuasive, the individual experience is irrelevant . . .@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?No . . .

Ok then.

The larger a business' satisfied customer base the greater that business' potential to monetize that customer base. If a business identifies an element of (one of) its product(s) that can be tweaked to generater greater good will among the paying customer base then that tweak, particularly, as pointed out, as those enjoying the current implementation would retain their preferred approach to enjoying the product, is a good idea.

I think you may be responding to something other than what you quoted. If you'll read back up the two proposals were a time gate where players play a little each day and quit, or no time gate where players play a lot for one day and quit. Players playing less sounds bad for your hypothetical business there :)

The person you had quoted suggested that the hypothetical player could get the mount without the time gate and continue to play, not that they would leave. You asked how it would be an improvement for a player to finish the collection quickly and then leave, but that was your hypothetical, the exact opposite of what he suggested.

I think you need to go back and look at that again. The player I quoted said that if there is nothing more to offer than an artificial time gate they would leave, and I asked what the benefit of removing the time gate would be if that was the case. There is a lot of nesting there but you seem to have confused at least one poster with another . . .

To me it looks as if he is saying that if all that existed was a time gate then there would probably be no reason to stay, but just previously he had said that players would continue to play the content even after completing the collection because, inference here, there is more than just the time gate.

The hypothetical about what would players do if there were only a time gate seems inapplicable, to me, because there is more to do.

I am browsing from my phone, so my apologies if I am mixing individual posters.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Ashen.2907 said:His point is that there is a reason even if none of us know for sure what it is. That is a valid point.

On the other hand, having a reason for doing something doesnt make it a good thing to do.

But the point they're trying to bring up, while it might be valid in a way, isn't relevant to the issues people are bringing up. No one's saying time-gates don't serve a purpose, we're saying that in this context, no matter what the intention was, it's created way too many issues.

In the end, the purpose doesn't matter, it's the outcome.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:It's still useless since you need 4 days to feed it 3 items each day (up to 12). So 4 more days of clicking 1 button (honestly I see no reason for time gating that specific achievement, seriously, it can't be justified).

Maybe your dragon doesn't want to/can't physically eat 12 meals in one day? Maybe you need to earn its trust over time? Forcing it to eat 12 times when it clearly doesn't want to just seems cruel

That doesn't really make sense when you can feed it all 14 harvested treats without a gate. :confused:

[Terminal.5093]

I think that's a good point to bear in mind.. regardless of the purpose of timegates and arguing their validity as a game mechanic.. the result of it is more important.

We can certainly say that the their purpose was not to cause this kind of reaction.. so the mechanics should be retooled to produce the intended effect and get the result they wanted.

The people have spoken and their feelings are clear, there is no point trying to tell people that their feelings are wrong. The mechanic hasn't produced the desired effect for a majority of people, so let's rework it.

Instead of celebrating this final chapter in a long story and soaking up the new map and meta, we're all hyper focused on this issue.

Without the timegate, people might notice how incredibly short the story steps actually are, compared to the other story steps, and then also how limited the map meta is. There is very little here outside of the skyscale collection. Even the map feels a bit small, maybe because it's broken in to 3 distinct sections with one starting base, it's like half a dragon stand for size, and a quarter for meta.

[tekhiun.8653]

@Samuel.4812 said:As a new player (quit after launch but came back a year and a half ago) I LOVE collections. I'm not even that excited for the mount but I like doing them so I am.

And I missed the daily reset by 8 minutes tonight. Ughhhhh.

That means I have to wait 24 hours to even start the next one.

That's bad bad design. Sure time gate it so we can't bum rush through all of it but lock outs that reset by daily?

Why didnt you just release one collection per say?

According to some people here it is great design and we should be grateful for it. But in all seriousness how can people be in favor of this?!

The biggest issue here is that people didn't know in advance how it would be, if since they announced the mount they had told us it was going to be timegated and no one would be able to get it on the day of the release because of it ,the backlash would be much less than what it is now, and players like you and me would probably be aware that we should finish the collections before the reset.

This is why there is something called play testing. next moth another game is releasing an expansion with a new class, and people already got to play that, so they could test it out and give feedback to devs. This is how it should be done. Instead of hiding this from players get feedback from us before release. That way we know what we would get.

[Teratus.2859]

At this point time gates on the Charged Quartz proves exactly what I was complaining about months ago when I said that timegated crafting materials only exist to be an annoyance to the player.It's fine when they first release and Anet want to slow you down a little to avoid over rushing but after so many months these times gatebecomes less about preventing rushing and feel far more like an unpleasent hand gesture towards the player.

In what possible way does Charged Quartz or Lumps of Mithrillium etc continue to warrant timegates?I can't think of a single reason.. these items have been in the game so long most long term players likely have hundreds if not over a thousand of them stored away in their banks.This means that these timegates specifically punish players who didn't stockpile and punish players who are new to the game and likely won't even know about these items until they actually need them which by that point they might just quit after learning they won't be able to progress with their main goal unless they log in daily and make a single item for several days to a month!

I've said it before and i'll say it again, all these timegated materials etc need to have their timegates removed entirely after a set period of time, otherwise they serve as a punishment for wanting to play the game.

[Gop.8713]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Nyarlathotep.4350 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

Just start a new thread about players wasting xp when they haven't completed their masteries, or post in one of the existing threads on that topic. It is a much broader issue that has been discussed since the mastery system was introduced. But don't mention the new mount, I think pretty much any thread on that topic is going to get merged in the current environment . . .

Merging everything is just going to make everything even messier...I don't know what they are thinking. But it is hard to create a thread without even mentioning the things that is making it an issue. Maybe if I use obscure nicknames for the mount and timegate or something... :T

Perhaps your original complaint was disingenuous then? Are you complaining about the fact that xp is wasted when masteries aren't complete, or are you complaining that the time gated skyscale collection is preventing you from completing your masteries? You can certainly discuss the former without discussing the latter, as there were many threads on the subject long before this episode's release . . .

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Thundabolt.8541 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.Ty, exactly my point. I was illustrating how your personal experience is a poor argument for making changes to the game bc the personal experiences of others (me) will be counter to yours and of equal value. If you are looking to make a change to the game, only arguments about how it will affect the game will be persuasive, the individual experience is irrelevant . . .@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?No . . .

Ok then.

The larger a business' satisfied customer base the greater that business' potential to monetize that customer base. If a business identifies an element of (one of) its product(s) that can be tweaked to generater greater good will among the paying customer base then that tweak, particularly, as pointed out, as those enjoying the current implementation would retain their preferred approach to enjoying the product, is a good idea.

I think you may be responding to something other than what you quoted. If you'll read back up the two proposals were a time gate where players play a little each day and quit, or no time gate where players play a lot for one day and quit. Players playing less sounds bad for your hypothetical business there :)

The person you had quoted suggested that the hypothetical player could get the mount without the time gate and continue to play, not that they would leave. You asked how it would be an improvement for a player to finish the collection quickly and then leave, but that was your hypothetical, the exact opposite of what he suggested.

I think you need to go back and look at that again. The player I quoted said that if there is nothing more to offer than an artificial time gate they would leave, and I asked what the benefit of removing the time gate would be if that was the case. There is a lot of nesting there but you seem to have confused at least one poster with another . . .

To me it looks as if he is saying that if all that existed was a time gate then there would probably be no reason to stay, but just previously he had said that players would continue to play the content even after completing the collection because, inference here, there is more than just the time gate.

The hypothetical about what would players do if there were only a time gate seems inapplicable, to me, because there is more to do.

I am browsing from my phone, so my apologies if I am mixing individual posters.

Yeah there are actually 4 different posters nested in there. The poster I quoted and my reply were the only replies from either of us in that exchange. Nbd tho, glhf :)

[Gop.8713]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I had ran up to my local Dollar General and bought a bunch of beef jerky, doritos, cheese dip, and mountain dew just for the occasion.Dude. Your body is a temple . . .

[Enokitake.1742]

@LucianDK.8615 said:The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs.

The timegating is stupid and should be removed, promptly.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Enokitake.1742 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs.

The timegating is stupid and should be removed, promptly.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs who are able to complete the collections

[WargreymonDGMN.8250]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Enokitake.1742 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs.

The timegating is stupid and should be removed, promptly.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs

who are able to complete the collections

ITT: People are shilling for and justifying ANet.

[Cynder.2509]

At this point the you can sure say that "War Eternal" is more like "Timegating Eternal". Actually the collections and timgating didn't bother me that much but now having a collection which is timegated within a timegate I begin to think if this might be a bit too chaotic evil. I guess all we can do now is making memes out of this situation to compensate the pain.

[Bast.7253]

Diving deeper into the collection, I honestly think it wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the timegates and daily resets. As someone else mentioned, we can feed all of these treats in one day, but we can't feed all of the food? Didn't stop us from gorging the beetle.

And then waiting to do the next tier of the collection at reset?

I can see where they were going with some of these collections. I think this collection, aside from the first part and the tediousness of running back to the same starts, has made me think "oh, this is interesting.. I think someone posted about this on the forums and it looks like they're trying to incorporate it into the collection." Several of those moments with this third collection alone, and the second one was actually quite painless aside from taking awhile. I honestly don't mind collections like the second and third part, but I DO mind the fact that I have to wait an undetermined amount of days to continue the collection. If they had just implemented this without the timegate, I don't think we would have had nearly this much of a backlash.

Given the way this unlocks and the general silence about a lot of this aside from addressing that they've acknowledged our concerns, I really have to wonder if one of the later collections unlocks a special skin and the timegates locking the collections and even the rewards of those collections as well as their silence.. and wanting to wait until the 24th initially, are indicative of this. Perhaps that's giving them too much credit and it's just the base mount skin, but they really have incorporated a lot of things people have been requesting in this patch. I.e. A more H.O.T. style map meta, armor sets, weapon sets, stat changeable trinkets, decorations, tonics. So given the amount of people that requested in-game obtainable mount skins, it really wouldn't surprise me if this wound up being something they tested out or incorporated into this patch as well.

But if that were the case, I think having a hidden collection similar to the gryphon or something that leads you into it after already obtaining the mount and working on masteries would have been the better route, and much more well received.

In all actuality, this is probably just the base skin and meant to reflect our journey raising Aurene, but there's a slight glimmer of hope there's more to it than that.

In terms of what someone else said about the map being empty and much smaller, I do feel like the map is significantly smaller but it's fairly well designed and it doesn't feel as empty as other maps like Sandswept or Kourna to me. It would just be MUCH better if I had access to the mount. ESPECIALLY if I had access to the rental mount without needing to make it that far into the story. Which is definitely something that should be revised at the very least, upon at least one story completion of course. But that might be tricky considering the way it's currently implemented and integrated into the story. (But again, if someone's already done it, it's not exactly going to be immersion breaking.)

[Thundabolt.8541]

I have reached day 3 and the idea has grown on me. Feeding and playing with my skyscale is irresistably cute, and does feel very personal.

I still don't agree that it should be linked to daily reset, however, and would prefer a much less drastic waiting period. Perhaps a day/night cycle in-game would be more fitting? At least then people still have an incentive to take breaks, eat/sleep.

Again, loving the tasks. Hating the 20+hr wait. 5 hours between each one? I'd be fine with that.

[Rukario.1695]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Enokitake.1742 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs.

The timegating is stupid and should be removed, promptly.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs

who are able to complete the collections

If people work full time and have a family, yet they're spending 5 hours a day doing collections, needless to say they are either neglecting their spouse (unless both play,) or children -- for an online game and that should not be the case. If you're talking about people who simply go to work and then go home to no-life the game until they go to bed, then yeah, they probably are finishing the collections each day.

That is, unless they work 2pm to 10pm and the server reset hits at 7pm like where I live. I get home, get maybe 30 minutes to an hour to play, sleep, get up, do morning crap, run errands, maybe get another 45 minutes of playtime if I decide to, then I have to work again. This is an 8 hour schedule -- what about 12 hours or those who have to work overtime any time their boss decides to call them?

Just because your Average Joe with nothing going on can finish a collection each day does not speak for anyone but that Average Joe.

This shouldn't need an explanation.

There is a reason I never crafted a Legendary, instead I did the Gold Grind to get 2,800g. Time-gating is dumb and collections in collections is almost worse.

The first day's collection took roughly 6 hours for most people, even with a guide.The second day's collection took roughly 6 to 8 hours depending on your luck, with a guide.The third day's collection took 3 hours with luck or substantially longer, with a guide; Gold or Charged Quartz is mandatory.No one knows what the next 2 collections entail.

But needless to say if someone only has 30min~1hr of playtime a day to allocate, this would have already taken them 15~24-ish days depending on luck, help from others, or choosing to not use a guide at all (substantially increasing the required time,) - and this is completely ignoring the Gold requirement.

Add the chance they finish a collection 5 minutes after the Daily Reset already hit -- Add a day to the total every time this happens.