Scourge is Broken in WvW, Please balance it

[Trajan.4953]

I, for one, welcome our new Scourge Overlords.

Seriously though, this is broken and garbage and needs to get nerfed into the ground.

[finkle.9513]

Its not the scourge thats broken, its the bombing aoe skills, that do not allow medlee close to counter the scourge and other aoe skills

[schokelmei.8271]

Scourge is weak n small scale. It's so easy to kill them. In zerg it's great because fields and protection from frontline. I don't know how you want to balance this without balancing all the classes in wvw - including making condis weaker, gutting resistance and lowering power damage.

[powerbits.6235]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:On your point regarding the Scourge being broken, I think what it broke was the previous boonsharing ball playstyle.What we got in return now is more a pirateship meta where two groups just range and wear each other down.

Is it impossible to charge into an enemy group now? Not really. I've seen a few organized guild groups do it successfully.Invulnerability is still a thing. Baiting is still a thing. It just requires a lot more coordination and condi clearing to do so.Also, DragonHunter's AOE F3 shield block seems to do a decent job of shielding allies from the Sand Shades' nuking.Working that into a group's composition might be helpful.

Personally I dislike the pirateship meta that Scourge seems to have forced the trend of engagement towards though since apart from reset night, the majority of engagements are not led by organized groups.

Also, I wouldn't single out that metabattle build because honestly, it looks doubtful and lacks synergy.I wrote out my doubts/queries at the necro forum here if you care to read.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/169148/#Comment_169148

I agree, it seems like anet wanted scourge to be frontline, guards to stability/heal/cleanse them, and ranged to keep the enemy from getting close. My take is, pirate ship is boring game play for people who play melee classes, and many commanders are confused on how it works. I believe that most players are more satisfied with smash and bash that resistance, stability, condition clears, and power allows. That it is this synergy that makes the right comp strategy part of the game play. Essentially giving guild leaders a purpose, to oversee and tweak minor changes for that magical moment when their guild is recognized as good. I was in a guild that wanted to keep it majority power, theoretically composed, and inclusive to traditional characters. The gl stated that it will make them all the better once a change emerges. Though this may seem laughable to some who theory craft for the strongest right now win possible. I think that person/guilds belief is reflective of what "fight guilds" find truly satisfying. As it stands, finding a blank slate to teach has been overshadowed by classes that are easy to play, and some guilds may feel left out of the strategy that makes this game fun to them. If this game is fun to the leaders, then new players who want to try world vs world probably would feel more inclined to stay, to be proud of representing a like minded and fun team. Leaders will encourage new players to make specific ascended gear sets for the purpose of synergy, and make Anet more money over the long term. Personally, I do not want to play a boring character that the winners seem to be forced to play.

This is just my opinion, but as the rest of these posts show, there are others who feel the same way.

[Junkpile.7439]

Well problem is that nobody wanna do this kind zerging more than couple months. These players who enjoy fight middle of red circles 24/7 won't play this game long. They get bored and quit.

[ugrakarma.9416]

Against 20 scour> @Burnfall.9573 said:

"Scourge is Broken in WvW, Please balance it" ??

umm...No!!

All classes beginning in Hot 1.0 to Hot 2.0 Pof are broken.

Picking on 1 class for pvp+wvw imbalance is a joke.

Thief core the longest running bad design class broken class alongside mesmer are the #1 reason why pvp+wvw remain broken and not competitive. Secondly, thief core alongside mesmer are the sole reasons why Anet lost a huge margin of its player base including a huge margin of its profit within gw2 5 years.

Infact: Condi (Ghost) Thief+Condi Mesmers were the most toxic condi classes in 4 years, and guess what? Condi Thief+Condi Mesmers outperforms Necro-Scourge condi.... so where are the outcry?

Necromancer been abused and hurt so many times over and over again with uncalled nerfs after nerfs just to satisfy the Elites profession Ego's.

To keep Necromancer as the lesser class while they are buffed over and over again

To take away any and to strip away any chance they might have to be viable....

To take away any worth they might have

To take away any hope they might have

Unbelievable!

NECROMANCERs ARE CONDITION SPECS!

Conditions are their identity, it is what makes them who they are.

--Don't You Feel Anything For Necromancer?--

And you want to take this away from them?

OVER AND OVER AGAIN?

GET OVER IT!!

LEAVE NECROMANCER ALONE!!

" -You Know What Hurts So Much, It Is When Someone Made You Feel Special Yesterday But Makes You Feel Like You're A Nobody Today "Neccromancer

http://lynleahz.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/loneliness11.jpg?w=700&h=560

Im most pvp wise games, thievs and a like are ignored because theyre toxic and they gameplay(hit and run) requires all others classes being overnerfed.

[coglin.1496]

@Seffen.2875 said:

@momophily.3814 said:What i'm saying is that scourge is superior to everything else when in a side-by-side. They need to be balanced out with everyone else

But why is Scourge so much stronger?It has a kitten ton of dmg and a medium Support. And beside that? The defense of the Scourge is a kitten joke. Especially in large scale fights.

You mean like the ability to turn enemy damage buffs in the form of boons into pure damage, covering conditions, and harmful effects? Or like Blood as sand negating %5 damage for each shade you have active? Or gaining resistance, stability, aegis, protection, regen, or vigor for each boon you remove or corrupt on an enemy?

They have literally not a single good escape.

I do not think "literally" nor "good" mean what you think they mean.

Once you catch them they are done.

That is subjective at best, ill-informed and inaccurate otherwise.

A scourge is so incredibly easy to burst down.

I do not think "easy" means what you seem to think it means. They are no more or less "easy" to burst than other professions, and in many cases much more difficult to burst down at all.

Therefore yes I may Sound like a kitten hole. But you Sound like someone not beeing able to adapt your playstyle.

Kitten hole, no. Though you do read as someone being intellectually dishonest or intentionally obtuse in order to defend maintaining their chose preferred profession in an overly beneficial and unnecessarily strong state

If you cant rush the frontline due to Scourge and Spellbreaker bursting you down go to the backline. Burst the scourges down and then feast on the ones left over.

Adapting ones play to compensate for specific builds being extremely overpowered or over tuned does not make them less in need of adjusting for that level of overpoweredness.

And concerning the condition spam: A good firebrand has no Problem with first resisting the condition and then removing the full stacks. Of course, when you mindlessly spam out your remove you will end up dead.

Considering how easy it is to remove or corrupt resistance as a scourge, I am not entirely certain how you think suggesting one single profession access to it is relevant in the least.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@thrdeye.1028 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Nah, those limitation is only if is purely a party made up by scourge. Now, scourge is the main firepower and then we have firebrand supporting that main firepower while having spellbreaker for that golden dome. In other words, large scale fights always end up as pirateship since pushing into it, especially one contain people with some brains to prop their WOE and firebrand that use their F3 and F2 is no different from suicidal.

I was responding to the specific claim that a party of 5 Scourge wouldn't be lacking anything substantial and therefore an ideal strategy would be for an entire server to bring only Scourges to a fight, leaving no room for any other spec.

My bad, yes, a pure scourge blob is actually not omnipotent.

[SCVwar.3784]

All these "adapt learn new counterplay and don't be selfish" advice are welcoming sight in forum but it's undeniable that high number of scourges are doing too many things so efficiently in zerg fights.

[GottFaust.5297]

Scourge isn't broken.The burst capability of condi is.

[Tongku.5326]

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@Chris.3290 said:Scourge heavy groups are easily counterable, it's just that too many people are too lazy to take off their PvE Marauder's gear and move beyond HoT boonshare to actually get something done.

Step 1: Find spellbreakers who are actually good and have them rotate WoD. You just nullified the Firebrands.Step 2: Rediscover CC skills. It used to be a cornerstone of the game but Boonshare made people too lazy.Step 3: Condition mitigation, again used to be a cornerstone. Dust off your Warrior's warhorn and Lemongrass Soup potsStep 4: Perhaps the old mindset of just putting bodies on a tag isn't a winning strat anymore. Running an organized composition has never been rewarded much in WvW in the past; but the way Scourges work kind of makes that a losing strat. Perhaps more organization and less screaming for more people before leaving spawn.Berserkker gear is PvE gear, marauder is tank gear.

LOL no. Examples of tank gear: Minstrel, Nomad, Sentinel, Soldier, Dire, etc. Marauder is basically berserker with a sprinkle of vitality on it and its glass as fuck, much like a lot of dire has a sprinkle of precision on it.

On the side note, I'm very happy that there is finally a way to nuke unskilled groups twice the size of organized groups. If you guys feel threatened by this, I wonder how you'd feel if the game was like it was in the 1st year, when we used to mow down entire map ques in groups of 8-10. Go kinda "zerg surfing". Incidentally, that was all power based.

It is also a given, that no matter what the meta changes or develops to, we will adapt and still do the same, and there will still be same posts here and everywhere, only difference will be nerf this instead of that !

[dusanyu.4057]

problem is when you nerf things for WvW it takes them out of play in PvE where this type of build people would find super fun. PvE is the bread and butter of this game. nerfing this type of build PvE side would only hurt the bottom line.

[Junkpile.7439]

@GottFaust.5297 said:Scourge isn't broken.The burst capability of condi is.Conditions are fine. Some Some of the spesilizations fill the whole map with red circles.

[bq pd.2148]

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Vendetta.6403 said:its a kitten profession for those with low wattage brains let them have fun

That's what thieves are for since the beginning of the game.

thats correct. i got to know it i am thief main.oh and scourges are fine only very few survive a DJ from my deadeye and i didnt see one scourge dodge it ..soo :D

i do think tho that trail of anguish might get a nerf like every oponent can only be affected by trail of anguish once per second like fire aure and shock aura or like slick shoes that every enemy can only be hit once. apart from that skill scourge is fine.

[Yerlock.4678]

@momophily.3814 said:This build: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Condition_ScourgeAnd those like it are absolutely breaking WvW. Simply put, this completely negates any ability to stay in close range (negating EVERY melee class/build). Not only does it rip Stability, Aegis, Protection and any other sustainable buff; but it flips and corrupts it into a damage. And not only does it make it a damage source, it makes it a high amount of Torment. So you die if you move, No One Stands Still Fighting Other Players! Particularly when in groups like 50 V/S 50, if you stand still then your standing in a bomb of red circles. This is BROKEN in WvW.

Please, please balance this. I’m fine with a loss of boons and I appreciate counter play and hard counters. But running this in any kind of large numbers is an instant win for that group. And its inclusion encourages the play of only the Scourge over all other classes. It’s too strong because there is no counter for this. It has already corrupted possible counters for it, and now you’re running with a fear, bleed, torment and burn stack on you. kitten ANet?

Yep, all true. Even with all the condi cleanse in the world Necros still lol and can take anyone down in range.

It's gotten the point where fighting Scourge is simply math. If you get close, you'll die from condi.

[Silverstone.4539]

yes 100%, something needs to change, your game is making me too angry.

[Ritualist Essence.9285]

To balance it they should start making seperate WVW versions of Scourge traits, for example a WVW version of Demonic Lore & remove the +33% torment damage thing.

[Chimppossible.1829]

Scourge is broken. Way to much advantage. I play most of the time warr, now tonight I tried Scourge...all enemies died one on one. Never killed so many in such a short time. This is really out of balance. And when something is out of balance...it gets boring. When I see to many scourges at the enemies ranks at a blob fight I simply not gone fight cause the outcome is allready set.

[Optimator.3589]

Holy thread necro batman....rezzing a thread that's been dead for 4 months is OP. Plz nerf.

[Sovereign.1093]

sometimes ppl dont play the counter toit so they get pawned

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Mira.4906 said:I believe they are working on a fix to help balance out the profession, on the AMA thread they mentioned it wasn't intended for shade stacking. Once that's fixed then we can really take a look at the class.

I remember an issue years back in my favourite MMO.. DDO.. Firewalls became the new spam toy... lots of damage output, can pass through walls etc. Next minute every elementalist, multi class elementalist and his dog would simply spam them all over the place.Solution.. firstly stop them being able to be spammed throughwalls, doors etc. Secondly if they crossed another firewall then the only the first in contact with you claimed damage, the others were wasted.Zerg fights in wvw have always been about numbers and in that the number of certain classes they could get into it. Today it is scourges that got the green lights, when they nerf that or upscale another, then that will become flavour of the month. Its not about players fighting players anymore or tactical nowse.. al that went out the window years back - it's all about karma trains and class zergwars nowadays - balancing that has become a mare of their own making. Sitting in a tower 1 v 50 isn't fun, certainly isn't going to be fun stepping out to fight and now all those aoe skills that can target you half way in the castle make sieging defence useless anyways cos line of sight is just ignored.. the game mode for me is ruined.

WvW has become a giant mess imo, which is why I frequent it less and less these days. Balancing is hard that is for sure but I have zero confidence that anything is really tested or tested properly otherwise ANET should of seen how these balances are always one extreme to the other.Like I have said though, when you aim to balance pve/wvw around pvp there are always going to be issues like this.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

Everyone keeps saying nerf Scourge and the Devs keep doing it, but what people don't realize is that most of the nerfs before and these proposed up coming nerfs will not stop the same problem that everyone is complaining about. The big elephant in the room that nobody says anything about,." SAND SAVANT" . I'ts like a giant well that you can cast and also become and run around with. Imagine if and ele could cast meteor shower on themselves while moving and it would follow them that is what it is like, so please stop asking for nerfs on Scourge cause they will just bungle it, like they have been doing and ask them for the rework or nerf the radius on the trait that needed from the beginning. Sand Savant. It really is funny to watch the devs systematically hacking off stacks of condis and tossing out random CD increases and people still complaining vaguely cause most can't figure it out. On a side note Scourges can be beaten easily if you know how, it is not the Scourge its the fact that so many groups are stacking them because of the SAND SAVANT.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Ritualist Essence.9285 said:To balance it they should start making seperate WVW versions of Scourge traits, for example a WVW version of Demonic Lore & remove the +33% torment damage thing.

I don't think I've ever seen a scourge use anything except Sand Savant in wvw. It's too damn good.

[Hexalot.8194]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Ritualist Essence.9285 said:To balance it they should start making seperate WVW versions of Scourge traits, for example a WVW version of Demonic Lore & remove the +33% torment damage thing.

I don't think I've ever seen a scourge use anything except Sand Savant in wvw. It's too kitten good.

Wrong. Plenty of scourges don't use it because giving up demonic lore is just too much of a hit to their damage. Sure, some complain it's too hard to target players with the smaller radius of the regular sand shades, blah blah. L2P issue.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I just use both depending on situation.