Nerf the mesmers for the love of pvp

[Eddbopkins.2630]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Heres a question for the mesmer players....why is it that every play style requires endless spam of clones.....name one build one play style that mesmer doesn't use clones? You cant cuz its a baaaaaaaaaaadly designed class that has very strong abilities compaired to other classes. Id love to see a build for mesmer that doeant require endless clone spamage. Out of 2 specializations and 7 years the only play style for mesmer is clone creation and useage. Idk do something else maybe?

Theres nothing to address....the classes uses only clones and there is no other play style.

TBH You should just try playing one a while if you have a hard time opposing them. You can then learn a few things. Like, for instance, that mesmer isnt as unstoppable as you seem to imagine and also you would learn enough about them to have an easier time opposing them in matches. I realize many people have this issue.

I realize many assume if they get killed or lose a match to a Mesmer it must be cause it was one of those "insanely OP mesmers that everyone is always talking about." As Daishi pointed out, its easy to make false generalizations in the forum and put blame on Mesmers. In fact, its become a very popular forum activity. However, I DID address this topic in general in my response to the OP and you still have yet to bring any facts, numbers, or even reference to WHICH SKILLS you think are giving mesmer its OP mobility. Please explain so we all can learn.

I did my very 1st post......i absolutly named a skill i felt was overperforming in comparision to other akills like it. So u need to chill out ur baised attitude.I did try mesmer out and i felt it was easy to spam clone easy to do damage easy to shut ppl down easy to run away and survive. I was always able to stay on the outside of a fight spam my clones and stay safe while fighting in any team fight.

I referenced jaunt in my original response, but here lets look at it in more detail:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jaunt

September 22, 2017 - Jaunt was added to the game.

November 07, 2017 - Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from being recognized as an elite skill for the purposes of some rune effects.

February 06, 2018 - Condition duration from this skill has been split. In PvE, the confusion duration has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds.

In PvP and WvW

, the

confusion duration

has been

reduced

from

4 seconds to 2 seconds

. (50% duration nerf)

March 27, 2018 -

Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.

July 10, 2018 - The

ammunition recharge time of this skill

has now been split and

will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW

while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE.December 11, 2018 - The

number of charges this skill can hold

has been split between game modes and r

educed from 3 charges to 2 charges in PvP and WvW

.

Now lets consider other changes during that same time period that might have also been mobility nerfs OR buffs.

During the Feb 2018 patch in addition to reducing confusion on jaunt it was also removed and replaced with torrment on Imaginary Axes and also Axes of Symmetry, staff also saw a nerf to bleeding duration in this patch and might was reduced

from 15 stacks

to 8 for Bountiful Disillusionment, which

now provides only 3 stacks

at present in pvp. Additionally Bountiful Disillusionment has had its stability duration reduced to 1 second per shatter if traited. This patch had more nerfs for mes and no real buffs. (This in total was a rather significant change in the long run when combined with other changes) (This directly impacted core mesmer also)(no mobility buffs)

Next March 2018 is when they added exhuastion which was a rather large mobility nerf if the mesmer used a certain GM trait which is now a dead trait.

Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of exhaustion when breaking a stun

This is clearly a mobility nerf and and also a change to how mirage was handling stuns. This was a pretty popular change and not too many people objected to it. (no mobility buffs)

July 2018 - during this patch Axe torrment duration was reduced and torch skills had fire damage cut and duration extended which made it less bursty. This patch too had a long long list of nerfs for mesmer, mostly staff, torch and axe. (no mobility buffs)

December 2018: This is when axe physical damage was nerfed by 30% and signets got changed to remove the boon share from Signet of Inspiration and also Bountiful Disillusionment was nerfed so that it too no longer shared boons, but only cast them on the Mesmer itself. ALSO Portal was nerfed to 30 sec from 60 sec for its use window which was a very significant mobility Nerf that occurred at the same time that Jaunts charge was reduced.

Since then other nerfs have occurred, mesmer has not had any buffs to mobility, vigor, etc.

In effect, the way I see it youre assertion about Jaunt seems 100% baseless. Learn to Play!

It doesn't matter if it got nerfed in the past. Theres still no other skill that, clears condis, does damage, applies condis, has two charges telepoets you and is a leap combo. It is the most useful elite skill in the game. Not only can u use it to escape u can use it for massive pressure with other skills and burst and survivability. Its very strong at its core compaired to other teleport skills. And mesmer has a few.

Jaunt is a mediocre bandaid that's there to cover the lack of ability to properly position yourself with a dodge as mirage.

Lmao two side of the spectrum you and me. Mesmer is fine. Doesnt need more power.

[Moradorin.6217]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

It doesn't matter if it got nerfed in the past. Theres still no other skill that, clears condis, does damage, applies condis, has two charges telepoets you and is a leap combo. It is the most useful elite skill in the game. Not only can u use it to escape u can use it for massive pressure with other skills and burst and survivability. Its very strong at its core compaired to other teleport skills. And mesmer has a few.

Honestly, you should look at the skill again. You are miss informed as to what it does. It doesnt do all of those things. Also its not that great of an elite, however, mesmer has few elite skill options. Signet of Humility was nerfed too, what are we supposed to bring? Seriously!The idea that Jaunt has damage AND mobility is almost a fallacy really. Here is why. Like everything else its always a trade off.

1) Its 2 uses before a 30 sec cooldown and a 450 range. That is a max of 900 range movement every 30 seconds max.2) If you are using it to move AWAY from the opponent it DOESNT Do Damage. You have to literally move within mele range of the opponent for Jaunt to damage. Therefore, in practice jaunt will EITHER move you away for damage avoidance OR move you to the opponent to do damage, never really both and as stated in (1) the mobility it provides is a max of 900 per 30 seconds which is NOT more than other classes get. Basic weapon skills for ranger, war, thief, and guard can all outpace jaunt.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

It doesn't matter if it got nerfed in the past. Theres still no other skill that, clears condis, does damage, applies condis, has two charges telepoets you and is a leap combo. It is the most useful elite skill in the game. Not only can u use it to escape u can use it for massive pressure with other skills and burst and survivability. Its very strong at its core compaired to other teleport skills. And mesmer has a few.

Honestly, you should look at the skill again. You are miss informed as to what it does. It doesnt do all of those things. Also its not that great of an elite, however, mesmer has few elite skill options. Signet of Humility was nerfed too, what are we supposed to bring? Seriously!The idea that Jaunt has damage AND mobility is almost a fallacy really. Here is why. Like everything else its always a trade off.

1) Its 2 uses before a 30 sec cooldown and a 450 range. That is a max of 900 range movement every 30 seconds max.2) If you are using it to move AWAY from the opponent it DOESNT Do Damage. You have to literally move within mele range of the opponent for Jaunt to damage. Therefore, in practice jaunt will EITHER move you away for damage avoidance OR move you to the opponent to do damage, never really both and as stated in (1) the mobility it provides is a max of 900 per 30 seconds which is NOT more than other classes get. Basic weapon skills for ranger, war, thief, and guard can all outpace jaunt.

What you just mentioned is alot of utility for a elite skill to do. I say its fair but it shouldnt be a leap combo.

[Moradorin.6217]

I think if you look at other classes you will find its very common for skills like this to have a combo interaction. Leap does seem like the correct one to me. look at ranger, warrior, thief, engi, etc. Combo fields are a good thing. The fact that it can be a leap finisher isnt anything major or out of line IMO. I really dont understand why that would be a major issue. Especially in PvP it the leap finisher makes little difference with its use most of the time. What I mean is, during a 1 v 1 the usual mesmer has maybe 1 field if that to use and if they choose to load up on chaos armor with jaunt the armor will dissipate in seconds and then no jaunt to get avoid damage or do damage for 30 seconds, again its a trade off. If you use Jaunt for a combo field its not available for its other uses. The other acception would be in team fights using team fields which requires good coordination and planning to work.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

It doesn't matter if it got nerfed in the past. Theres still no other skill that, clears condis, does damage, applies condis, has two charges telepoets you and is a leap combo. It is the most useful elite skill in the game. Not only can u use it to escape u can use it for massive pressure with other skills and burst and survivability. Its very strong at its core compaired to other teleport skills. And mesmer has a few.

Honestly, you should look at the skill again. You are miss informed as to what it does. It doesnt do all of those things. Also its not that great of an elite, however, mesmer has few elite skill options. Signet of Humility was nerfed too, what are we supposed to bring? Seriously!The idea that Jaunt has damage AND mobility is almost a fallacy really. Here is why. Like everything else its always a trade off.

1) Its 2 uses before a 30 sec cooldown and a 450 range. That is a max of 900 range movement every 30 seconds max.2) If you are using it to move AWAY from the opponent it DOESNT Do Damage. You have to literally move within mele range of the opponent for Jaunt to damage. Therefore, in practice jaunt will EITHER move you away for damage avoidance OR move you to the opponent to do damage, never really both and as stated in (1) the mobility it provides is a max of 900 per 30 seconds which is NOT more than other classes get. Basic weapon skills for ranger, war, thief, and guard can all outpace jaunt.

What you just mentioned is alot of utility for a elite skill to do. I say its fair but it shouldnt be a leap combo.

This is Jawgeous ""IT DOES (710) POWER DAMAGE AND (224) BLEED. THAT'S 710 POWER! FLAT! AND ITS THREE TARGETS!"" about the axe auto attack chain levels of silliness.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Jaunt a useful elite? Jaunt is trash, the only reason Jaunt is used is because other elites except now MI are even trashier.Ask any mesmers if they would give up that trash in order to get an utility skill there.Want a better Jaunt except it isn't an elite? Rocket boots for example.

[Khalisto.5780]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Seen a build in wvw that was staff/scepter pistol, plenty of daze "spam" in that build. It was more annoying than anything though because of how defensive/offensive it was. I could easily run away on war/theif/ranger/holo/other mesmer though that is wvw and not spvp where you fight over nodes so I guess it would be even more annoying here lol.

They have access to armor stats, runes and sigils that are not availabe in pvp + foods and other buffs. The builds are always more dangerous in wvw than they are in pvp

[necromaniac.7629]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

No my friend, there a re plenty of ways to not instantly die to their bursts, speaking as mesmer myslef, they do manage to get me to atleast 50% hp but as soon as i see that red thing below me i just invul, dodge stealth and re start the fight.

[necromaniac.7629]

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

what you mean?

[mortrialus.3062]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

what you mean?

The new Chaotic Interruption Condi Mirage that combines Mantra of Daze with the trait Chaotic Interruption for an extremely potent 1v1 spec that is loaded with a ridiculous amount of interrupts and immobilization.

[necromaniac.7629]

@DigiQWill.6378 said:

@"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:Lets classify all mesmer player in these categories: 30% of all mesmers who can't play the class, 50% of all mesmers who can play this class (average players) and 20% of all mesmers who can play this class very well.Lets talk only about those 20% of mesmers who can play this class very well.

Now, lets separate out power mesmers (either core, chrono or mirage, doesn't matter) and condition mesmers (mirage).

While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth. There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting. A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.

When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;2) Remove ability to break the targeting;3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.

With these three simple fixes every single issue with mesmer would be instantly solved: no more instant kills from stealth and no more armies of clones putting constant pressure on you while you don't even know where the real mesmer went.

Your "solutions" are hilarious (excepted that last one which I do agree). Where do you get those insane numbers from? I duel good Mesmers all day long, yet the maximum one can stack invulnerability+evading effects on itself is a maximum of 4 seconds.

Calling invulnerability for the time it takes you to learn where the player is simply a lack of knowledge from you - in no way should Mesmers suffer from your subjective thoughts because you think they are hard to play against.

And I want to know how did you get 27k hp on Warrior in PvP while thinking you'd be viable. And I would like to know what makes you think you can't evade a burst from stealth. When you get hit by a stun or daze, click that "Oh kitten" button all warriors seem to carry, that being shield stance. You just need to get better at quickly following a stun break and that shield stance of yours. And if you don't carry a shield... well then, you should learn to recognize the very clear sound all Mesmer Stealth skills have, be it Decoy, The Prestige or Mass Insivisibility.

Mesmers were nerf well enough already. Not played at high ranks when it comes to structured PvP (mAt levels) and has one of the lowest winrates right now (if I remember correctly, Ben mentionned it was around 45% - right besides Elementalist. I don't remember where he said that though).

While disguising your argument behind the "Ah only good players can play Mesmer correctly, thus making this class only performing but it doesn't mean it is less broken in the right hands", the same could be saod from all classes. Good warriors can 3v1 rather easily. Would that mean that warriors are now broken? I'll let you think.

Oh my gosh so true, he made it sound like there is absolutely no way you can survive mesmer burst..

[necromaniac.7629]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

what you mean?

The new

Chaotic Interruption Condi Mirage

that combines Mantra of Daze with the trait Chaotic Interruption for an extremely potent 1v1 spec that is loaded with a ridiculous amount of interrupts and immobilization.

Oh did'nt know of that one as yet, imma check it out

[mortrialus.3062]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

what you mean?

The new

Chaotic Interruption Condi Mirage

that combines Mantra of Daze with the trait Chaotic Interruption for an extremely potent 1v1 spec that is loaded with a ridiculous amount of interrupts and immobilization.

Oh did'nt know of that one as yet, imma check it out

It can 100-0 unprepared players. I think it's why I've suddenly seen more Defense Spellbreakers because it eats the strength ones alive.

[necromaniac.7629]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

what you mean?

The new

Chaotic Interruption Condi Mirage

that combines Mantra of Daze with the trait Chaotic Interruption for an extremely potent 1v1 spec that is loaded with a ridiculous amount of interrupts and immobilization.

Oh did'nt know of that one as yet, imma check it out

It can 100-0 unprepared players. I think it's why I've suddenly seen more Defense Spellbreakers because it eats the strength ones alive.

Wow sounds very interesting

[necromaniac.7629]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Heres a question for the mesmer players....why is it that every play style requires endless spam of clones.....name one build one play style that mesmer doesn't use clones? You cant cuz its a baaaaaaaaaaadly designed class that has very strong abilities compaired to other classes. Id love to see a build for mesmer that doeant require endless clone spamage. Out of 2 specializations and 7 years the only play style for mesmer is clone creation and useage. Idk do something else maybe?

This is absolutely ridiculous, there is no mesme without clones and there is no clones wihtout mesmer, simple.

[Khalisto.5780]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:Lets classify all mesmer player in these categories: 30% of all mesmers who can't play the class, 50% of all mesmers who can play this class (average players) and 20% of all mesmers who can play this class very well.Lets talk only about those 20% of mesmers who can play this class very well.

Now, lets separate out power mesmers (either core, chrono or mirage, doesn't matter) and condition mesmers (mirage).

While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth. There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting. A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.

When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;2) Remove ability to break the targeting;3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.

With these three simple fixes every single issue with mesmer would be instantly solved: no more instant kills from stealth and no more armies of clones putting constant pressure on you while you don't even know where the real mesmer went.

Lol, I'd rather classify the players that come to forums complain about mesmer than the mesmer players.

30% find mesmers annoying to fight against, but not necessarily op50% can't even find the real mesmer20% are laughing that someone thinks mesmers are OP

[ZhouX.8742]

@"Daishi.6027" said:Lol, You can instantly tell the quality of a player who complains about illusions.Please remove the hyperbole of “infinite” and please list what a meta build is capable of per weapon set then argue how it’s imbalanced. Trust me it’ll help you.

As for being locked down, let me help you regarding the skills: grand total of two stun skills on weapons with obvious tells, one of which is locked behind chrono. Plus a trait in a mediocre line that condi wouldn’t run, turning a 38 sec cooldown into a stun.As for imob most of it comes from interrupts. Which you can counter with a stow.

But you honestly must not be keeping track of what your opponent can’t do if you’re getting locked down in a meta that is full of so much stability, and so many other easy access responses to stuns. I could maybe see issues with imob if you have a lot of cover condis on you.

Defensive cooldowns? Other classes, particularly every medium armor class gets access to more on demand defensive cooldowns than Mesmer. All you have to do is count the access.Around season 9 or 10 prior to any nerfs people calculated the uptime on evasion between DD and mirage, and DD still had more lol. Now after all the nerfs still complaining? Lol, it’s like even after crying to A-net for nerf intervention people still never learned what they needed to to beat it 1v1. Which killing condi mes 1v1 on my War, Thief, and Ranger is one of my favorite past times. So I dunno why you think people can’t keep up. On top of that Engie specifically holo counters it, while scrapper can fairly easily bunk it. That’s 4/8 (excluding mirror matchup) and prior to guard nerfs, any meditation build countered it pretty well too.

If your complaint is specifically regarding condi I’ll let you have that as power mes doesn’t over perform, and has the same tools listed. However, if that is the argument being made then you should amend your stance to reflect this.

"Around season 9 or 10 prior to any nerfs people calculated the uptime on evasion between DD and mirage"

Smart to put before the nerfs , because that's the problem. DD got destroyed and mirage still remained untouched in terms of what SHOULD HAVE been nerfed and what was actually nerfed on mesmer. Mesmer continually receives the incorrect nerfs, and I think that's the major issue with the class balance of it in general while other classes literally get entire builds gutted into extinction like d/p meta build was.

[praqtos.9035]

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:Lol, You can instantly tell the quality of a player who complains about illusions.Please remove the hyperbole of “infinite” and please list what a meta build is capable of per weapon set then argue how it’s imbalanced. Trust me it’ll help you.

As for being locked down, let me help you regarding the skills: grand total of two stun skills on weapons with obvious tells, one of which is locked behind chrono. Plus a trait in a mediocre line that condi wouldn’t run, turning a 38 sec cooldown into a stun.As for imob most of it comes from interrupts. Which you can counter with a stow.

But you honestly must not be keeping track of what your opponent can’t do if you’re getting locked down in a meta that is full of so much stability, and so many other easy access responses to stuns. I could maybe see issues with imob if you have a lot of cover condis on you.

Defensive cooldowns? Other classes, particularly every medium armor class gets access to more on demand defensive cooldowns than Mesmer. All you have to do is count the access.Around season 9 or 10 prior to any nerfs people calculated the uptime on evasion between DD and mirage, and DD still had more lol. Now after all the nerfs still complaining? Lol, it’s like even after crying to A-net for nerf intervention people still never learned what they needed to to beat it 1v1. Which killing condi mes 1v1 on my War, Thief, and Ranger is one of my favorite past times. So I dunno why you think people can’t keep up. On top of that Engie specifically holo counters it, while scrapper can fairly easily bunk it. That’s 4/8 (excluding mirror matchup) and prior to guard nerfs, any meditation build countered it pretty well too.

If your complaint is specifically regarding condi I’ll let you have that as power mes doesn’t over perform, and has the same tools listed. However, if that is the argument being made then you should amend your stance to reflect this.

"Around season 9 or 10 prior to any nerfs people calculated the uptime on evasion between DD and mirage"

Smart to put before the nerfs , because that's the problem. DD got destroyed and mirage still remained untouched in terms of what

SHOULD HAVE

been nerfed and what was actually nerfed on mesmer. Mesmer continually receives the incorrect nerfs, and I think that's the major issue with the class balance of it in general while other classes literally get entire builds gutted into extinction like d/p meta build was.There is no class can beat thief at evasion uptime and doubt they actually did anything like this, this would distract them from making the only content for the game = contentshop. Nerfs at wrong places thats not a breaking news.In fact to nerf mirage they destroyed core mesmer thus ruined everything on base level. The same goes for chrono. Everyone been happy and up for core nerfs for the mesmer meanwhile when they have busted core traits = DONT TOUCH MY MAIN, NERF ELITE SPEC :joy:Now in 2019 kids QQ hard about being lost in clones... How this people degraded to this level after seven years...I would rather believe they calculated who spend the most cash on gemshop across all classes and mesmer players are invest the least amount of $$$ xD

[BadMed.3846]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:

@"ZeroTheCat.2684" said:Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

Mesmers are trying to mesmerise these forums.

It is still an insanely OP and cheesy profession with multiple spammable and macroable builds that wreck opponents through unfair and utterly unfun fights. End this mockery and bring Mesmer back to the ground with other professions.

While it's mainly Mirage that's broken, I'd still like to see fine tuning of Mesmer across the board.

you are too hilarious. YetI still do believe Mesmer need to be redesign to bring it in line with its core root

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

Keep your illusions out of the way. Mirage needs huge nerfs. It is ridiculously broken by design.

[Sampson.2403]

People always say "find the real mesmer". Should add to this , "spam aoe to kill the clones while finding the real mesmer".

When i play Rev, i love fighting this new CI mesmer build. I just LoS and spam all my aoe damages to melt their clones and dodge the obvious pistol bursts and chaos storm.

If you see the clones running at you then its an incoming shatter. If you see an ambush attack coming from all the clones and the mesmer then they just burnt a dodge. There are plenty of windows to counter their damage and land damage yourself.

U really just have to know how to play mirage, once u learn the cooldowns, its not too bad of a fight. The hardest part IMO is predicting their mantra interrupt because that's just an instant cast.

Mesmer is just one of those classes where if you don't know the class, you get punished for it way more than you do for not knowing other classes.

[Burnfall.9573]

@BadMed.3846 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:

@"ZeroTheCat.2684" said:Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

Mesmers are trying to mesmerise these forums.

It is still an insanely OP and cheesy profession with multiple spammable and macroable builds that wreck opponents through unfair and utterly unfun fights. End this mockery and bring Mesmer back to the ground with other professions.

While it's mainly Mirage that's broken, I'd still like to see fine tuning of Mesmer across the board.

you are too hilarious. YetI still do believe Mesmer need to be redesign to bring it in line with its core root

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

Keep your illusions out of the way. Mirage needs huge nerfs.

It is ridiculously broken by design

That is exactly what i said; Mesmer need to be redesign

[Zenix.6198]

From a sword weaver's PoV:My main gripe with the "new" CI build is the guaranteed 3s immob proc.As a 100% melee class with barely any mobility this just makes me get kited forever.Also, getting a chaos storm daze on the first pulse -> "well, I guess im gonna eat the whole thing" is just annoying.

[Brokensunday.4098]

@"Zenix.6198" said:From a sword weaver's PoV:My main gripe with the "new" CI build is the guaranteed 3s immob proc.As a 100% melee class with barely any mobility this just makes me get kited forever.Also, getting a chaos storm daze on the first pulse -> "well, I guess im gonna eat the whole thing" is just annoying.

eat the whole thing an end up with 25 bleed and torment from clones and mesmer hitting you lol

[Crab Fear.1624]

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Delete Thief!!

GW2 THIEF ROAMING CONDIS P/D "TOXIC BOY"(even the Thief player state that Thief is Toxic and calls it at out like that)Any Thief players would like to comment on it? I mean; look at the amount of Toxicity that is being applied; how would any disagree? It even make Condi Mesmer look like trash.

((Let me know when Mesmer can outmatch the amount of Toxicity Thief outputs so we can really ask for its nerfing))

--until than; Thief is the True Toxic Profession; must be deleted for the health of Pvp and WvW--

-Toxic Build Included-

---side note; before Toxic Thief existence, there was Captain Gwen Thackeray; a Mesmer--Without Mesmer; there would never be Guild Wars.So therefore; Mesmer is here to stay as long Guild Wars exists

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

"Similar to the Canthan view of Rangers, which protect the balance in nature, the Assassins' purpose is to protect the balance in society, taking out justice against those who view themselves above the laws. Because of this, many Assassins take their job very seriously."

Also, don't forget Anton. Me and my boy Anton slayed the Great Destroyer together.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Daishi.6027 said:Here is a radical idea, maybe you can anticipate the hit and dodge it by knowing he stealth window.

So, players you fight against announce when they enter stealth and when they come close to you without you knowing they are in stealth? With who do you play? I would love to play against people who announce when they are about to ambush me out of stealth.