Potential Future Balance Changes

[Tinker.6924]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Necromancer

• Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
• Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
• Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
• Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.The Scourge spec doesn't have extensive defensive abilities beyond the barriers. I can understand limiting granting the ability to grant other players those same barriers because most other classes have more defensive tools (evades, blocks, etc...) available to them than the scourge does.

The right approach would be to keep the barrier at full strength for the scourge player and his minions but reduce it by 25%/33% for his teammates. This proposed change is the wrong approach.

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

• What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?I haven't started PvP/WvW yet with my scourge and this makes it fairly discouraging to even try. I've done enough pvp in other games to know if you don't have a good defense you're toast.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Would your gameplay change as a result?

Nope.

Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?

Slightly improved. The pros outweight the cons, but not by much.

Are you looking forward to these potential changes?

No.

What are your concerns with this set of changes?

That they aren't addressing my concerns. I don't know why most of these changes are made.

What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

Fewer Rangers in WvW.

[Matoro.9708]

Detection pulse thematically makes no sense on purge gyro. It totally made sense with stealth gyro. I'd say make something new, or keep the original. Other than that, I can't say much that other people haven't already said.

[xERx.8256]

Only regarding Chrono:

I've been main mesmer since almost release, and chrono is unplayable in competitive environment due to the shatter nerf.No F4 on command is worse than the original vanilla mesmer in 2014. The fact that phantasms don't count as clones (anymore) kills chrono even more.you basically decide whether you want F5 or F4, when you shatter it, and when i tried it last time, you couldn't reset it with the signet, so already handicap vs core and mirage spec, that is when you have a clone up.It's such a wanky design and when i read the patchnotes, the explanation was to remove F5 to have "consistency" is not a compelling argument to delete a class from the competitive game. Bad game design in my opinion together with all the other points made from the people above.

[Daishi.6027]

Dune Cloak needs to be improved if it's ever going to compete with IH.Give it true boon steal, not just a lesser copy. Or unblockable. (like Reckless Dodge)

Chaotic storm change just means people are going to tank it in a gambit. The only reason why it's able to dissuade players form standing in it is because of the daze. This makes it incapable of zoning. If you were to change chaos strom like this make it a radius effect centered on the caster and swap poison with slow. This way it becomes a more offensive tool forcing players to stand in it as you push, but subject players to it while kiting in a disadvantage state.

"Requires you to face your target and respects line of sight." <- Targeted teleports need to play by this rule.

Speaking of targeted teleports.Mirage Advance: 1200 range OR Instant;Not both, Not Neither.

By the by, this does not fix any of the issues with condi mirage. The problem comes from a passive application and ramps with ambush from clones.Find a way to return the power back mainly into shatters.Yes this will create problems for PvE, but PvE can be amended via reducing restrictions set in place after balancing the numbers in PvP. (like reducing or removing cooldowns in PvE)Yes, this type of thing going far eventually means game types may end up quite inconsistent. But I think a lot of us would agree, "health" especially in a struggling to remain and relatively small competitive scene is more important than consistency with the rest of the game.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

(I usually play Backline Staff Weaver)

1. Would your gameplay change as a result?

Yes, in a positive way. Beeing able to see target rectangles of CoR as well as the small damage nerf on CoL and Ranger Longbow will give me more opportunities to react in situations where I would usually just disapppear and check my damage log in disbelieve - which is very good. I hate situations where I get hit by two CoR that I could never have dodged since they don't show and then just die and beeing able to see them will make for much more interactive gameplay.

2. Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?

Improve! I haven't felt Engineers to be too much of a problem but the Scourge and Revenant changes look very good to me. Scourge still is the easiest class to recommend someone who is new to WvW and there pretty much is nothing you can do wrong. It's incredibly boring and non interactive since whichever button a scourge presses will most likely be some AoE with Boon corrupt and barrier, multiply that by however many scourges your average zerk has and you have a measure of how bad the state of the game is. (I'm exaggerating, but only a little :) )

3. Are you looking forward to these potential changes?

Yub. But I still think that the Alliance update as well as reward changes are currently more important than Balance for WvW. We need encouragement for new commanders and higher rewards as well as higher rewards for taking obejctives especially well defended ones (I know this is coming soonish, just wanna stress the importance of those changes).

4. What are your concerns with this set of changes?

Not a real concern more of a personal thing. I don't think Daredevil is what it is supposed to be and it is by far the least fun class, or rather the least fun opponent I have ever had in any game.Daredevil has access to stealth, superior mobility, an insane amount of evades, reasonable disables, some boon removal, a decent build variety, good damage spikes and I am okay with everything this far. But why does Daredevil also have access to insane boon generation and blocks/reflects AND a goddamn portal? Is there any mechanic that Daredevil does not have access to? I wouldn't mind if Daredevil, or rather thief in general, could get access to blocks/reflects via a stolen skill, from guard or warrior for example, and access to a portal via stolen skill from mesmer. But giving him all those tools just like that feels incredibly wrong to me. Its like the goal with Daredevil has never been to make a good viable class but rather it seems like the goal was to design a class specificly for a wide variety of trolling capabilities.I'm not asking for a Daredevil nerf, I just dislike beeing jumped by people that can just barely kill me if they bother me long enough and can't be killed unless they're really bad or get jumped by a larger group, thats neither fun nor good for the game.Alright, I'm done.EDIT: Another thing that should be adressed: Pulls need to be more consistent, Dragonhunter Pull doesn't seem to require Line of sight while engi & necro pulls do, Mesmer focus pull is an AoE so it doesn't require anything but seems to pull targets over its center (haven't confirmed that yet).And Walls on Towers and Keeps might need a redesign, on many Walls it is far easier to hit targets standing on the wall than it is to hit targets below while standing on the wall - thats not how fortified positions are supposed to work. In medieval times, walls have been designed in such a way that they protect you from attacks from below, such as archers, while giving you a good position to attack back. In WvW however, most walls block line of sight forcing you to stand on the edge where everyone below can just pick you off or pull you down.

5. What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

I don't think zerg setups will change much due to changes like this and that is okay. Fights will probably just be a little more interesting.

[graishak.5406]

these changes seem to go to the right directiondont think they do enough thoughi dont play much anymore, will try out these changes, but dont think ill stay long

chrono should get few improvements, rather weak, maybe improve wells

new CI might be either ridiculous with skills like shield 5 which doesnt have target limit or useless because of random skill recharge, id prefer something that increases damage taken. striking disabled characters removes a boon and gives might? idk

thief is also not in a good spot, staff is odd, would rly like focus party to come back whether for thief or any other class. that role is what i liked the most, and its bad since hot. thats the main reason i didnt get poffor that random aoe damage that can kill both focus party and whatever they are trying to kill needs to be nerfed, CoR and scourge nerf were goodmaybe improve ele ccs, make frozen ground remove resistance, improve gust somehow(staff ele is good to have in the meta imo since its high risk, but just buffing dmg isnt the way to go)

and nerf passive procs. reduce random aoe damage and those are not required anymore

[Gondolph.7201]

for the Necromancer:Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. ---- Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

I think that just will reduce the use of the scepter once again, since most damage oriented necros are already playing axe/dagger -- Axe/torch combinations.

[psizone.8437]

@steffen.9607 said:thief is also not in a good spot, staff is odd, would rly like focus party to come back whether for thief or any other class. that role is what i liked the most, and its bad since hot. thats the main reason i didnt get pof

The main issue I see with Thief is so many structures in WvW reveal you now. It's impossible to fight at all near some enemy towers and keeps, leaving their main role being to gank people near camps and lone roads. It's boring.

Same issue with removing the ability for Thieves and Mesmers to hide in recently captured structures. It used to be that you had to manually sweep and spend some effort to keep things clear, now the game basically plays itself. There's hardly any opportunities to hide, run and fight inside enemy keeps in order to port in your buddies for an epic recapture.

[ShadowAlly.1087]

Engineer - It is already broken from the last fix stop trying to fix it again. Just revert it back and micro change some of the problemsChemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

Would your gameplay change as a result? YES, once again you are not solving problems but creatin new ones and ignoring the response that you received from the last patch. Reverting the changes made last time and adjusting the problems in Micro stages seeking feedback along the way would go far with the community.

Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?The problem here is the state of the Engineer is already at a worse stage. The direct impact of the game has been a class that can hardly roam on its own. Which removed a tactic of the game. The extending of the Sneak Gyro will only make it harder for those who have had to adjust to try to be functional. The removal of the chemical field which is used by Healing Scrappers leaves them with really one more less wet noodle to hit with.

Are you looking forward to these potential changes?NO, you are getting closer to the point where shelving the Scrapper is a possibility. Which then why did you even bring it into the game in the first place?

What are your concerns with this set of changes?There is almost a very small chance that unless you have been playing the scrapper for a long time that roaming is only getting harder and that punishes new players to WvW. By making them only look at Core builds to avoid some of the crazy changes you made from the last patch. The F5 skill is so temperamental it is almost not worth using.

What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?People not being willing to play the scrapper as it is useless. People like to say that before the change of the last balance patch there were too many. Please, one only needs to look at have many players use the Scourage and Carpet bombs.

-------------------------------->>><<<--------------------------------Ranger, well lets hurt the damage they can do at a distance because people are complaining about a ranger doing damage.

Would your gameplay change as a result?Well, think about it. Now instead of being able to scare scourage. We get to stand in their carpet bombs just like everyone else.

Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?Worsen because who would think a ranger should do damager at a distance it is in their name RANGER.

Are you looking forward to these potential changes?LOL yeah NO

What are your concerns with this set of changes?Less damage for distance... RAY!!

What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?Well, I did say about what is going to have to change.

<----------------------------------------------------------------->IF IT IS NOT BROKEN DON"T FIX IT (but hey give us back the not broken scrapper) Because YOU broke that already.

[Arekai.5698]

Why don't you address things ppl have been saying since you introduced wvw mounts?

Make the Warclaw have 1k hp, or make it demount on contact / battle.

Generally, make it so roaming as one or two persons is fun again.The only good thing in all of this is the hammer rev nerf.

[graishak.5406]

@psizone.8437 said:

@steffen.9607 said:thief is also not in a good spot, staff is odd, would rly like focus party to come back whether for thief or any other class. that role is what i liked the most, and its bad since hot. thats the main reason i didnt get pof

The main issue I see with Thief is so many structures in WvW reveal you now. It's impossible to fight at all near some enemy towers and keeps, leaving their main role being to gank people near camps and lone roads. It's boring.

Same issue with removing the ability for Thieves and Mesmers to hide in recently captured structures. It used to be that you had to manually sweep and spend some effort to keep things clear, now the game basically plays itself. There's hardly any opportunities to hide, run and fight inside enemy keeps in order to port in your buddies for an epic recapture.

i was mainly talking about a focus party in a gvg/ small zerg setting where single target damage is undesired and i could see it become playable there if the meta becomes healthier, mainly less aoes and a mix between melee and ranged casters

but yes, for roaming spotted is annoying on thief, id like to see a watchtower change, but i felt like dev focus was mainly on large scale so i ignored roaming issues here

[Vegeta.2563]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Engineer

• Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.I feel that maybe instead of 75 seconds, it should be placed at 60 second to be on par with Mass Invisibility from Mesmer?@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Necromancer

• Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

• Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.I can live with these changes. However...@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

• Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.

• Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.I feel that the reduced barrier should only be for allies, and not the necromancer itself. Barrier is basically a scourges survivability, much like how shroud is for core necro and reaper. You reduce that you might as well play a class that can do actual dps better.

[Zepoolpe.9217]

I agree, this is not the right approach...

Splitting the effects of skills between game modes is a good thing as it gives you the potential to fine tune the balance for one mode without upsetting it for the others but then you really need to change the way you look at balance.

Too often aNet is trying to bring balance by tweaking the skill numbers rather than by tweaking the skill mechanics. For example make it with a decreased efficiency for each person it is granted to: Sand Flare granting barrier to 1 person only (ie: the caster) -> 100% / 2 persons -> 94% each / 3 persons -> 88% each / 4 persons -> 81% each / 5 persons -> 75% each. That way you nerf the effect in zergs but keep it viable for small scale/roaming.

I think someone on a previous post pointed out the imbalance of warrior. he was right: warrior is one of the best example were you really should look at the skills mechanics rather than the actual effect numbers: being able to chain several kind of invulnerability while being able to dish out massive damages need to be reworked.I'm not saying Endure Pain for example should be nerfed to the ground but make it more like Engi's Elixir S or Guardian's Renewed Focus.

Stealth mechanics is also something that should be reworked too. For example grant stealth for a longer time but make most stealthing skills only work if you are out of combat. Then for classes that have access to stealth, make it that of their stealthing skills works differently when they are in combat. It could for example work that way: They are in combat, then the skill take them out of combat and stealth them but they cannot be stealthed again for 90 or 120s or until they are again out of combat. the skill itself is still on his normal CD, so other effects would still work (ex: Hide in Shadows) but not the stealth bit.

PS: I'm just speaking from a WvW point of view.

[praqtos.9035]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

Mesmer

• Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
• Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
• Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
• Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
• Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.Can anyone explain me from your team HOW its based on WVW ?Like ok IoL in wvw... but mantras...How two mantras HURT WVW? How does it affect mass WVW blob fights???Why chaotic interruption is basically deleted and worthless ? Your interns unable to remove immobilize from the trait so it was replaced with a "placeholder" ?Chaos storm without dazes, especially on its cooldown, is useless, also 4rd skill on staff is a filler, does nothing ...Do you even realize that you are butchering literally the only last things that mesmer has ? Are you ?About LoS and not being able to cast "backwards"... Why such absurd skills like throw boulder can be throw while NOT facing your opponent? "Sap essense" thief stolen item from the revneant? Ranger greatsword 4rd skill can be thrown behind himself (there are way more skills that needs this treatment)? WHY ?

[Lazze.9870]

@Baldrick.8967 said:Terrible change for ranger and totally unneccessary. It you're worried about some freak glass cannon one shot build set up, then nerf the co efficients so max damage output from that outlier build comes down- don't use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Rangers are already borderline in wvw, making them worse isn't going to help the class any.

Nerfing the coefficient is literally what they do.

It's completely stupid. It hurts core ranger. Almost as stupid as how everyone is happy go lucky about it. Nerfing ranger? Great! Adressing issues that might give it some squad play? No one cares. There are no suggestions to rework the butchered druid so that it may partake in squads. Nor buffing the shared aspect of SB stances, so that it may compete for a spot.

No, let's just go on about adjusting numbers of the meta classes, which definetely won't make it just as stale a few months later when everyone hits eachother with sticks, using the same class we did six months earlier.

[Requiem.9648]

You guys should also redo the entire chrono after the dry shatter nerf F1-2-3-4-5 and chaos/insp line are useless line now exept maybe SOI 10 mans. Like a mention before as chronomancer main Firebrand and Alac Ren can give and maintain more of the main chrono boon (Alac+Quickness) and have better dps if play as diviner/seraph stat than a chronomancer and TW consider as base mesmer boon if your in underwater you CANNOT give any chrono boon to allies cause wells dosent work make that chronomancy completely useless.

P.S Make me a favor before doing a balance patch test it please.

[Deaths Sensei.5317]

@peiper.2195 said:imho, these changes will be a good start, mayhaps the skill lag will be affected in a positive way. Can these changes be rolled temporary over a weekend, to evaluate the impact and collect feedback?

What will positively change wvw and pvp is the following:

• no elite specs in wvw/pvp
• no expansion based armour stats in wvw/pvp
• no expansion based runes and sigils in wvw/pvp
• no mounts/gliding in wvwAs result balance will be easier to tune. I might have missed some points, feel free to add it.

and you sir/madam just killed all future sales of expansions

[Jojo.6590]

First Warrior:

Warrior is very loaded and it seems that’s just not going to change with these impending changes. This is a class that uses heavy armor but has insane Survivability, damage, boon access, and mobility. Warrior’s mobility needs to be looked into, especially since it’s on par with a thief’s mobility if not better. This should not be especially since warrior uses heavy armor.

Mesmer:

After the changes done to boon share and the way Chrono’s shatters function the balance team has effectively removed Mesmer form zergs, let alone about 80% of the game in general.

The Ci change does sound fun however. I’m pleased by this concept. Though it’s still going to cause some issues, especially on Mirage. Sword ambush needs to be looked into on Mirage (saying this for the 100th time). There are a plethora of ways to “cheat” endurance regeneration in WvW, allowing this ability to be a stun, leap, and clone generation that is in a sense spammable.

Mesmer has been nerfed for having too much boon access, yet there are currently other professions that have even more access to boons let alone their up time, yet nothing is done about this?! So only Mesmer isent allowed?! This can be said about a lot of the nerfs done to Mesmer and a lot of other classes. If one class should not be allowed to do x,y and z then neither should another class.

Mesmer needs a lot of help. As it currently stands it’s a mess and a full on redesign may need to be looked into.

Last some words of the wise:

Stop listening to the crying on the forums. The balance team can’t say they’re not, because all one needs to do is find a balance patch and then look at the complaints on the forums prior to that balance patch. I’m sure by now the balance team has noticed the issue they’ve created by doing this. For when you give a mouse a cookie it’s sure to ask for more.

A set of guidelines/ rules needs to be made that all classes abide by. Then each class needs it’s own personal guide that it abides by as well as a concept of what that class should be. The concept helping guide each classes personal guide lines. It’s very evident this does not exist.

I know I’m sounding like a condescending Kitten. I’m on your side I really want to see this game continue to grow, but I’ve seen what poor balance does to games (Wild Star being a great example) and I don’t want to see that happen here. You’ve created something amazing that has brought so many people together, and I hope Guild Wars Two will continue to grow!

[subversiontwo.7501]

You posted these supposed WvW-centric changes without a notice in the WvW forums?Okay, focus, try to be constructive, hnnngghhh.

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

• Would your gameplay change as a result?There seems to be a general trend of reducing cleanses to bring conditions more in line with power damage. I would advice you to be extremely cautious with that. The condition systems are volatile and have had their share of even more severe balance issues in the past. Issues that made alot of players stop playing. The foremost problem with the current "power meta" is also that everything is so volatile and basic components of the system, like hitpoint pools and stats from gear, are being overshadowed by other things. The volatility of effects over core stats is the real balance problem and letting conditions become as volatile as power damage has slipped into is a poor course.

Engineer

• Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
• Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
• Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.While it is nice that the impact of the removal of detection pulse has been noted, the suggestion seems very hasted. Would there be a better place to put it? Hopefully you have a good answer to that question now that you have taken the natural answer away. Are you sure that you want to make Purge Gyro such a mandatory skill? The cleansing is adressed above. If larger group cleansing is an issue, look at runes and sigils instead. As long as Antitoxin is a 100% cleansing increase to any base access, looking at individual skills this way becomes pretty uneventful. There never was a problem with Sneak Gyro and you have changed back and forth a couple of times already. Solve problems, don't create problems. Leave the sneak gyro be.

Guardian

• Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
• Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
• Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
• Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.You guys have a poor track record with scaling things up, I don't think that is the right route to go to make Sanctuary more appealing. It is especially problematic since the balance for control effects is already deterring groups of players from fighting at closer ranges. The mode needs less CC, not more. Getting to control and play your character is a good thing, rewarding agressive tactical behaviour is a good thing. No one who creates content likes two groups standing and looking at each other, being too afraid to take the first step. I'm on the fence about the nerfs to aegis, it is a rather unique boon that adds alot of flavour. I wouldn't touch it unless it has become a major balance issue. I can't see that it has. Firebrand popularity still seems to almost entirely come from premier access to stability in an environment where there overall isn't enough stability.

If you want to make Firebrands less stacked, add stability shares to other classes and/or reduce the overwhelming amount of CC. Groups ask for Firebrands because no one enjoys being a flipper ball or spending the majority of a fight in a stun.

Mesmer

• Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
• Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
• Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
• Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
• Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.While the Mesmer has been battered a couple of times in a row now. Most of these changes seem quite okay in my book. Perhaps the CS nerf is taking it a step too far but overall it looks okay and the CI change seems in tune with the class and the weapon in question.Necromancer
• Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
• Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
• Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
• Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.For the longest of time the problems with the Scourge spec has not been the raw power of the abilities, it has been the scalability and application of it. It has too easy of a time to apply it's effects in too many situations. Changing that is problematic though because no one wants to make things tedious just for the sake of balance. However, some things that don't affect the feel and flow of gameplay can be done, such as adressing how many of the abilities reach into 1200y range.

The problem with reducing some power damage, some condition damage, some "healing" and some boon corruption or some crowd-control is that it still does power, condi, corruption, "healing" and CC all at once. Letting it have a bit less of everything just makes stacking more of them appealing. Reduce their reach, let them be powerful in their expected range and simply take away the things it is not meant to do. Is it support or not? Is it condi or power? Is it 900y? Define the role, that will solve the problems.

Ranger

• Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.This is a poor solution to a recent problem that you have created. The things people complain about when it comes to power damage now are directly related to all the overly generous traits you had added. Traits that adds ridiculous amounts of critical % and critical damage % modifiers and add values that are equal to or larger than a full set of gear. I would adress the traits rather than the base weapon values.Revenant

• Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

• Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.These look somewhat fair overall. I can't comment on the details, simply look at the spike damage of the hammer skills and make sure that they are not ridiculous. I think that is what everyone asks. No one likes getting hit for 20k by a CoR, especially not when the effect bugs out or clutters out and doesn't animate and the damage comes out of nowhere. Here the problems have always been the base values and the inversed damage ranges so it is different from the above. It doesn't hurt looking at both the weapon, the traits and the stat scaling ofc.Warrior

• Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.Is accumulative dmg% modifiers something you really want to dip down into again? If so, why did you kill them on the Druids? I would advice caution here, assuming you considered the Druid buffs a problem, and carefully also consider the roles of classes. They made more sense on Druids in terms of roles, do Warriors really need it to fullfill their roles?

• Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.Same thing here, is this really a route you believe that Warriors need? They already have a multitude of roles and the only thing that doesn't make them more popular is the rampant oversaturation of CC that makes everyone fight at range. If you want to have one Warrior spec that rekindles an offensive buffing role closer to a Guardian, maybe you should just look at improving shouts and related traits, perhaps spread the traits for a core Warrior appeal. The elite specs each have their own role, with their own versions of group utility.

The one thing I would do to Warrior is to roll back the WoD changes to a dropped bubble and reduce its size. That would make for much more engaging Spellbreaker gameplay that is more in tune with how the class plays as a whole. The change that was made just doubled down on the problem by forcing the spec to commit to bubble dispensing. Sure it has some counterplay through CC but overall, smaller drop-and-leave bubbles would be far more intergrative with the gameplay both on the maps and on the class. The initial mechanics were more fun and better suited to the gameplay, the ability was just too powerful/impactful.

• Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
• Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.The idea of adding more stealth counters than nerfing stealth (where it isn't obviously necessary) or tying it to structures is welcome. A more cohesive role as a buffing class again would be welcome, shouts, blasts, warhorns. Keep looking into it.

On an ending note: Maybe you should publish some sort of design document regarding class balance in WvW because finding intended and suitable roles for classes and specs is important for overall balance, gives you a framework to look back at for future changes, gives you a system to fit future complications (like new specs) into and also lets you track whether a class or a role is falling behind. Often times a problem that a class may have to fit into something could be that it has slipped out of the role entirely or that the role has disappeared - then it may be better to focus on bringing it abilities that lets it reestablish such a role rather than improving things that lets it compete within another, saturated role (more poignantly, because trying to fit a class into another role often ends up a failure where it isn't competetive anyway). Systems can be stale and too suggestive of how to play something but they are pretty good to hold onto when the wind blows and chaos stirs. At least as a lower-level framework. Vanilla did not have trinity, but had it's own "trinity".

[Hitman.5829]

Warrior needs a decent patch, but warhorn is not one of the weapons it needs to be updated.Here is a list of warrior traits that are under performing.Here is a list of warrior skills that are bugged, clunky, and/or under performing.

I don't expect Anet to even put a foot on the warrior forum; however, it is my duty as a player to let you know where your game is lacking in content.

[Lily.1935]

At the moment, my primary concern is core necromancer viability. This doesn't help core necro's case it actually hurts it by reducing the boon corrupt on Scepter. Core necromancer needs a lot of help and the minor changes you made before is not even close to enough so I'd ask that you don't forget the obligation to continuing core's improvements.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Greetings fellow Tyrians,

We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

• Would your gameplay change as a result?
• Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
• Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
• What are your concerns with this set of changes?
• What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

Engineer

• Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
• Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
• Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

Guardian

• Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
• Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
• Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
• Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

Mesmer

• Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
• Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
• Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
• Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
• Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

Necromancer

• Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
• Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
• Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
• Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

Ranger

• Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

Revenant

• Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
• Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

Warrior

• Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
• Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
• Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
• Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

Sincerely,GW2 Systems Team

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Elementalist, The forgotten class of Gw2

It depends certainly how you look at this for me the current meta build for ele are no options .

Swordweaver needs a lot of concentration too much on high end for most players, going melee with an Ele all the time is crazy and even from those who choose to do so 9/10 fails who tries with the result of them mostly dead all the time in fractals. Also some encounter are really bad as Swordweaver. On top of it does absolute not feel like a ele/mage at all.

The new Tempest build is only good for large hitboxes by using lighting orb which hits the target multiply times I do use this in open world but for fractal this doesn't work.People already ask for an increase for staff ele by increasing the dmg from earth and air skills(the most conservative approach) so that Staff weaver hit 34k from the current 30k =4k increase.

Also other Tempest DPS build are not viable in PvE because Ele got balanced around Weaver and on top of it Air overload got a 18% nerf(pulse reduction) with the start of PoF. This also include cc on staff Gust does 25%(they nerfed it) , Pile Driver 75% I would change it so that Gust does 50 and Pile Driver does 50 and static field does slow cc as an after effect of total of 50(maybe as tempest only)

Of possible Overloads increase I think earth > fire > air (too much details) and the increase on dsp on staff I think air > earth (and maybe water)and mostly the 2s & but also slightly the auto attacks and 5s

Also an option if all this doesn't bring up Tempest in viable DPS range how would it be when ele in general got and CD reduction on attunement(30%?) and weaver stays the same I think this would open a lot of builds on ele and not only staff on top of it ele could use more of its utility in pvp also with the changes before Tempest could use a 3 element rota . This wouldn't interfere with the current build because the current Tempest build use fresh air and weaver doesn't change. The cherry on top would be because of this changes core ele would be maybe viable outside out open world core maps somewhere.

This is what I can say about ele.

[pory.8420]

I'll just weigh in here that removal of the aegis generation from Tome of Courage is a good idea for competitive modes, but please don't remove it in PvE.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I can't believe their not tuning holo down more, it's far more busted than any spec right now. But guess it's not a big wvw pick. Picking things like ranger auto's which I guess is a small issue dps-range but to prioritize these changes over stuff like holo lmao this game balance is going no where.