[Merged] Oh cool you must buy more build slots

[solemn.9608]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

That’s a horrible analogy and doesn’t even fit.

We get 3 free, buy more if ya need more. And what do you think the devs put food on the table by volunteering at Anet?

Seriously, shame on anyone who thinks they are entitled to be handed every little thing for free. Y’all get 3 free, so be grateful for that...

Easiest way to make a counter argument against a great analogy - say it's a bad analogy.That's a horrible argument and doesn't even fit.

Anet didn’t take anything away. They added build templates and gave 3 free. Can you comprehend that? Now compare it to your analogy...I already had infinite build templates. Can you comprehend that? Apparently not. Now compare it to your responses...

From an unofficial 3rd party program lol

Go use that program if you can’t handle itIt is exiting development as per their agreement.It's functionality was perfect, what does it being a 3rd party have to do with this? It was not able to access our password, nor was it infected with any malicious code, so again, what does it being an "unofficial 3rd party program" have to do with it? Big phrases like "unofficial 3rd party program" may sound convincing to the passive reader, but not an active reader who is willing to dispense with fallacies.

Go use the free program then and quit the complaining. Problem solved for those who feel entitled to everything free...

???? In my last reply to you, I said it is exiting development as per their agreement. Are you reading anything?

[solemn.9608]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Charging for products that cost money to produce is unacceptable!!! Especially if the item is nonessential and multiple free samples are given out!!!/s

I wonder how many of the people complaining about this offer to work for free. I am sure that their employer(s) would be delighted to not have to pay them.

Sure, that's what we're saying./s

That is exactly what is being said, even if not by you personally.Not everyone here is going to make a perfect argument.That doesn't mean you have to cherry pick the bad ones to make your side look more justified.We are going for truth here, not wins.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

We never had free build templates so how is this fitting?

Just an FYI, ARCDPS build templates were only ever allowed under the condition that they’d go away once Anet added templates into the game.

We have had free build templates for 2 years? What are you talking about?

No we haven’t had official build templates for two years.Oh, we're going to play semantics now? Oh whoopy, hey let's nitpick grammar too while we're at it.We HAVE HAD build templates for two years.

No. Build templates from ARCDPS were never intended to be permanent. They technically break the TOS but Anet allowed them until they had their own version in the game.This is correct. Where are you going with this. Before you say "I've already told you", please understand you have yet to make a real counter argument. You have not already told me.

I have made an argument; it’s just one you happen to not agree with.

[Swagger.1459]

@Ashen.2907 said:Charging for products that cost money to produce is unacceptable!!! Especially if the item is nonessential and multiple free samples are given out!!!/s

I wonder how many of the people complaining about this offer to work for free. I am sure that their employer(s) would be delighted to not have to pay them.

Next time I’m at my truck dealer I’m going to tell them I needs free truck because I can’t carry stuff on my back... I’m sure it will work! Especially is I call them “scum”!

[solemn.9608]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Charging for products that cost money to produce is unacceptable!!! Especially if the item is nonessential and multiple free samples are given out!!!/s

I wonder how many of the people complaining about this offer to work for free. I am sure that their employer(s) would be delighted to not have to pay them.

Next time I’m at my truck dealer I’m going to tell them I needs free truck because I can’t carry stuff on my back... I’m sure it will work! Especially is I call them “scum”!I don't think that will go very well for you.Enjoy

[solemn.9608]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

We never had free build templates so how is this fitting?

Just an FYI, ARCDPS build templates were only ever allowed under the condition that they’d go away once Anet added templates into the game.

We have had free build templates for 2 years? What are you talking about?

No we haven’t had official build templates for two years.Oh, we're going to play semantics now? Oh whoopy, hey let's nitpick grammar too while we're at it.We HAVE HAD build templates for two years.

No. Build templates from ARCDPS were never intended to be permanent. They technically break the TOS but Anet allowed them until they had their own version in the game.This is correct. Where are you going with this. Before you say "I've already told you", please understand you have yet to make a real counter argument. You have not already told me.

I have made an argument; it’s just one you happen to not agree with.So.... where is it? I've dispatched with all you've said so far

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

We never had free build templates so how is this fitting?

Just an FYI, ARCDPS build templates were only ever allowed under the condition that they’d go away once Anet added templates into the game.

We have had free build templates for 2 years? What are you talking about?

No we haven’t had official build templates for two years.Oh, we're going to play semantics now? Oh whoopy, hey let's nitpick grammar too while we're at it.We HAVE HAD build templates for two years.

No. Build templates from ARCDPS were never intended to be permanent. They technically break the TOS but Anet allowed them until they had their own version in the game.This is correct. Where are you going with this. Before you say "I've already told you", please understand you have yet to make a real counter argument. You have not already told me.

I have made an argument; it’s just one you happen to not agree with.So.... where is it? I've dispatched with all you've said so far

Read my other posts. I’ll also add that Anet has final way in what can and can’t modify the game.

[solemn.9608]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Read my other posts. I’ll also add that Anet has final way in what can and can’t modify the game.Of course they do. And I've replied to your posts in this thread, read what I said.

[Vinceman.4572]

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

[oginecka.4265]

You have to consider the monetization as a whole. The game is doing surprisingly well given its age - $13.5M in sales the last quarter. That said, it is at the lower end for NCSOFT as a whole, meaning it has to maintain this level for the publisher to keep interest. With no expansion on the horizon, there have to be other monetization streams to compensate.

I love GW2 and always felt the amount of content we're getting is impressive. If you look at all the content since release, it's probably 2-3 expansions worth of content that was free (if not more). There is no subscription, so you are not paying $180 ($15*12) a year - and the majority of players definitely don't spend that on the gem store. Hopefully the ANet team can get creative and come up with new ways to monetize the game. If the content is free, then some of the features have to be paid for.

For me personally, I rarely use more then a few builds at a time. I'd imagine the majority of the player base is similar. Only the most competitive players will need to buy the expansions. If they include any more for free, it won't be a reasonable income stream anymore.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Read my other posts. I’ll also add that Anet has final way in what can and can’t modify the game.Of course they do. And I've replied to your posts in this thread, read what I said.

Yea, you’ve technically replied to all of my posts but only to dismiss them. You’ve made absolutely no counter argument.

[solemn.9608]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Yea, you’ve technically replied to all of my posts but only to dismiss them. You’ve made absolutely no counter argument.

One only needs to scroll up just a little bit to see an example of a counter-argument I made that you never followed up on ...

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

We never had free build templates so how is this fitting?

Just an FYI, ARCDPS build templates were only ever allowed under the condition that they’d go away once Anet added templates into the game.

We have had free build templates for 2 years? What are you talking about?

No we haven’t had official build templates for two years.Oh, we're going to play semantics now? Oh whoopy, hey let's nitpick grammar too while we're at it.We HAVE HAD build templates for two years.

Anyway this is tiring now. We will agree to disagree. Take nothing I've said personal but please consider the following.

To summarize my position: Anet can of course monetize their build template system that they worked on but it's important that they do it in a way that is ethical when you consider that we've already have build templates for 2 years, with infinite builds and a 1-click button to load them. AKA: Anet should increase the default builds to at least 5, not 3.

[yoni.7015]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Yea, you’ve technically replied to all of my posts but only to dismiss them. You’ve made absolutely no counter argument.

One only needs to scroll up just a little bit to see an example of a counter-argument I made that you never followed up on ...

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

We never had free build templates so how is this fitting?

Just an FYI, ARCDPS build templates were only ever allowed under the condition that they’d go away once Anet added templates into the game.

We have had free build templates for 2 years? What are you talking about?

No we haven’t had official build templates for two years.Oh, we're going to play semantics now? Oh whoopy, hey let's nitpick grammar too while we're at it.We HAVE HAD build templates for two years.

That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.

[solemn.9608]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

[Neutra.6857]

@yoni.7015 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

Except the "template" I am getting is objectively worse for me then the 3rd party template I was using. I have legendary gear, so the space being saved in inventory is not actually being saved, meanwhile I have to now memorize my various different equipment builds for my characters where s before with the 3rd party thing I just clicked 1 button and I was finished. Those using legendary gear and the 3rd party plugin (that was allowed by Anet) are being harmed by this update.

[perilisk.1874]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

That’s a horrible analogy and doesn’t even fit.

We get 3 free, buy more if ya need more. And what do you think the devs put food on the table by volunteering at Anet?

Seriously, shame on anyone who thinks they are entitled to be handed every little thing for free. Y’all get 3 free, so be grateful for that...

Easiest way to make a counter argument against a great analogy - say it's a bad analogy.That's a horrible argument and doesn't even fit.

Anet didn’t take anything away. They added build templates and gave 3 free. Can you comprehend that? Now compare it to your analogy...

Every character already had three build templates, and that isn't rain on your leg.

[Swagger.1459]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Go use ur free arcdps lol

[solemn.9608]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Go use ur free arcdps lol?? At this point you're just doing it for a reaction, if you think I wouldn't notice then that's kind of funny.Obviously you've just made a strawman argument in an attempt to irritate me.I type fast, it's no big deal, not actually mad, sorry to disappoint you.Keep making those strawmans! Really makes you look like you've made a great point in this thread

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.

[kharmin.7683]

@Neutra.6857 said:

@yoni.7015 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

Except the "template" I am getting is objectively worse for me then the 3rd party template I was using. I have legendary gear, so the space being saved in inventory is not actually being saved, meanwhile I have to now memorize my various different equipment builds for my characters where s before with the 3rd party thing I just clicked 1 button and I was finished. Those using legendary gear and the 3rd party plugin (that was allowed by Anet) are being harmed by this update.

It hasn't even been released yet. We don't know exactly how it will work. Everyone is interpreting the announcement in different ways. Maybe we should just wait and see?

[solemn.9608]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

[Neutra.6857]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.

Nevermind.

[MrForz.1953]

I must be an alien or something for expecting this service to be partially free akin to bank space, and how it makes me indifferent.

[Swagger.1459]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

“Morality”? No, it’s players being cheap. Ya got 3 free, go complain elsewhere. Maybe you’d get more free if Anet charged a monthly fee, so perhaps you should ask for that?