[Merged] Oh cool you must buy more build slots

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

I suggest you read the TOS. This is about the rules set by Anet to play the game and then making a temporary exception. Don’t twist this to be about morality or legality.

[solemn.9608]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

“Morality”? No, it’s players being cheap. Ya got 3 free, go complain elsewhere. Maybe you’d get more free if Anet charged a monthly fee, so perhaps you should ask for that?I've given anet hundreds of beaver dollars and I can give them more.I just don't think it's right.

[Swagger.1459]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

“Morality”? No, it’s players being cheap. Ya got 3 free, go complain elsewhere. Maybe you’d get more free if Anet charged a monthly fee, so perhaps you should ask for that?I've given anet hundreds of beaver dollars and I can give them more.I just don't think it's right.

Then go use arcdps.

[Jora.5471]

I want build templates to be free. If ANet needs to monetize it, monetize Gear templates, where you have to pay to for gear slots which lets you switch gear.

There are hundreds of ways to change traits and skills that can be stored as a zip file like Guild Wars 1 build templates does. Gear templates could be used to store gear which makes it okay to charge money for.

[solemn.9608]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

I suggest you read the TOS.For what reason? Did I not just say that this is in the realm of morality? Or... are you just grasping for straws to find a reason to disagree with me now?

[Cameryn.5310]

Dear lord, what is WRONG with you people!??!?!?!

You literally play this game every day without any sort of payment for it, except that which you give voluntarily.

You literally have played this game FOR YEARS, COMPLETELY SUCCESSFULLY, without ANY build templates at all, just one spec that you've had to rotate if you wanted to play differently, in a game where most players probably never change their spec at all.

You're getting the ability to have another build for free, per character, that you can swap to at any time, without any charge to you.

And now you're CRYING that having more is going to cost you?!?!??!

Please go to your local dictionary and look up the word "entitlement."

This is just getting utterly ridiculous. The hurt being displayed here is absolute nonsense.

[kharmin.7683]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

“Morality”? No, it’s players being cheap. Ya got 3 free, go complain elsewhere. Maybe you’d get more free if Anet charged a monthly fee, so perhaps you should ask for that?I've given anet hundreds of beaver dollars and I can give them more.I just don't think it's right.

That doesn't make it immoral or unethical. Hard to argue when opinion and emotion are in play.

[Trinnitty.8256]

I MEAN you get 3 for free, which isn't terrible. Imagine if all it was 3 templates no more offered at all. Then the forums would whine about not having enough templates slots and how they would gladly pay for extra.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:That’s not a counter argument. We’ve had programs that hack the game since launch too.How is that not a strawman argument? What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Because you’ve not been reading what I’ve been saying. ARCDPS modifies the game just as hack programs do although the latter tend to be more malicious. At a minimum, ARCDPS build templates would be the equivalent of a macro. Macros have been explicitly banned from use with the exception of instruments. ARCDPS build templates needed Anet’s approval and this was only under the condition that it be removed when an official version came out.We are beyond arguing legality at this point. This is more in the realm of morality and what is 'right' not what is 'allowed'.

I suggest you read the TOS.For what reason? Did I not just say that this is in the realm of morality? Or... are you just grasping for straws to find a reason to disagree with me now?

The TOS is not about morality. You follow the rules or you get banned. ARCDPS build templates were only allowed under a temporary basis until they had a version of their own.

[InvaGir.9158]

@"Cameryn.5310" said:Dear lord, what is WRONG with you people!??!?!?!

You literally play this game every day without any sort of payment for it, except that which you give voluntarily.

You literally have played this game FOR YEARS, COMPLETELY SUCCESSFULLY, without ANY build templates at all, just one spec that you've had to rotate.

You're getting the ability to have a second build for free, per character, that you can swap to at any time.

And now you're CRYING that having a third or more is going to cost you?!?!??!

Please go to your local dictionary and look up the word "entitlement."

This is just getting utterly ridiculous. The hurt being displayed here is absolute nonsense.

Nothing makes them happy and greatful and they just spill neagtivity everywhere and make people like me and you mad.They should just leave the game imo because they're obviously not happy here :\

[Substance E.4852]

@Swagger.1459 said:And what do you think the devs put food on the table by volunteering at Anet?

No they get paid because people buy 30 dollar mounts expecting said grossly bloated prices would fund game features

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solemn.9608 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The TOS is not about morality. You follow the rules or you get banned.I understand that.????What is your point?I have every intention of following the ToS. If arctemplates is no longer allowed then it's no longer allowed.Again, WHAT is your point?

Well they’re no long allowed. Had you read my posts you would have seen that I stated that Anet only allowed them to temporally be used until they had a version of their own. That was the agreement made between the developer and Anet.

[Rico.6873]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@solemn.9608 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

That’s a horrible analogy and doesn’t even fit.

We get 3 free, buy more if ya need more. And what do you think the devs put food on the table by volunteering at Anet?

Seriously, shame on anyone who thinks they are entitled to be handed every little thing for free. Y’all get 3 free, so be grateful for that...

Hope they add more to packages/expansion offers/bundles ^^

[Vinceman.4572]

@yoni.7015 said:Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

Sure, but I lose 10+ safe. That's the sad stuff and as I already stated I won't pay for a thing I was using for 2 years by now. I would rather support deltaconnected for his work because he was doing the work for free & alone. Even that is enough reason to not pay Anet any extra.

[Naxos.2503]

I feel compelled to point out that a detailed reading of the announcement page says :

By default : Build Template for free 3Equipment Template for free 2Additional purchase by amounts of 3 -FREE- for a while after release. Obviously limited to one, but raises the current limit to 6, for free.

And I'll add that the ending of the announcement notes that PvP build templates are getting built Seperately. Meaning there is potentially more templates for free specifically for PvP that will be added at a later time. That alone is pointed out in the announcement page for those patient enough to read.

[Hadi.3167]

Just so you know , crying about it... Won't make it free ? so continue sir. Pretty sure your tears aren't paying their bills. Meanwhile as they add free content for players and add quality of life changes to the game with no monthly subscription... Just ungrateful forreal. Need to rethink you life choices, the forums aint the place.

[Swagger.1459]

@Sazukikrah.5036 said:Just so you know , crying about it... Won't make it free ? so continue sir. Pretty sure your tears aren't paying their bills. Meanwhile as they add free content for players and add quality of life changes to the game with no monthly subscription... Just ungrateful forreal. Need to rethink you life choices, the forums aint the place.

+1

[Mewcifer.5198]

@Neutra.6857 said:

@yoni.7015 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

Except the "template" I am getting is objectively worse for me then the 3rd party template I was using. I have legendary gear, so the space being saved in inventory is not actually being saved, meanwhile I have to now memorize my various different equipment builds for my characters where s before with the 3rd party thing I just clicked 1 button and I was finished. Those using legendary gear and the 3rd party plugin (that was allowed by Anet) are being harmed by this update.

It is possible it might allow you to store the same equipment as multiple builds, since they said the gear templates will remembers stat selections of gear.

Also you are forgetting the * after "allowed by anet" it was allowed only as a temporary stop-gap and this was known before all this. It technically violated the rules anet put in place about 3rd party add-ons but they agreed to allow it until they could create an official version.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

2 years of development for that ... haha no way.srsly when looking back what i alone developed in my company the past 2 years, than that is a joke.

i know somehow the devs should get paid, but than make an expansion and put that feature into the expansion.currently everything is about the gemstore. srsly i want content and i'm going to pay for that .. but not for features and cosmetics.

[Offair.2563]

@solemn.9608 said:

@"yoni.7015" said:Yeah sureBut that maybe others want to earn money so they can have a house and a car. That is so horrible for you?You don't understand.This is monetization of a feature that we already had because they took 7 years to produce it.It is not fair on principle.

> @"Arenanet" said:

At release, each character will get three Build Template tabs, which will be preloaded with their existing equipped builds from PvE, PvP, and WvW. You can swap the contents of the Build Template tabs for use in any game mode or purchase more tabs from the Gem Store.No thanks. I am not going to pay for the full functionality of a function that is already available to everyone; because you took so long to make it that someone, on their own free time, already made a very well functioning build templates add-on with unlimited "tabs". I sincerely hope you don't plan on making the use of this add-on an offense.

I would urge "this is fine" voters to consider that just because you didn't use [omitted title] doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly useful and valuable to many in the gw2 community. You may be siding with a sizable injustice to portions of our community by saying "this is OK" (see footer note/edit)

I can think of another popular MMORPG that, instead of doing this, ended up incorporating add-ons in the game and encouraged making helpful/useful add-ons. You don't need to vouch for the add-on as professionals... but you simply just needed to allow it to exist. Instead, because you guys wanted to do it yourselves,

we're now paying for what we already had easy and consistent access to, because you wanted to monetize it.

Ok, so we get a little perk in saving inventory space, but all I want is to not have this be forced on me. I already have the functionality of build templates, if you disallow that, and enforce your build templates functionality, you are forcing me to buy the inventory slots gained by using your option. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea. But I'm left with no choice but to give you money. Even if I'm willing to do that, I defy that on principle.

Mounts in WvW was one thing. We adjusted to it, even though we did not want to.If you make this pay-for-full-functionality I will lose faith that I shouldn't still have to begin with.

Taking a screenshot of this post & saving it. Why?

Well, you know how it is here.

edit: wording, and: note that if we are still allowed to use [omitted title] after this release, I won't mind so much. I can look past that easily, if this condition is met.

 

Write an open letter to a random 3rd world country about this unfairness instead..

[starhunter.6015]

@susana.7814 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:We had 7 years without them and we get it for free. It's just another account upgrade.

except that arc allows us to use them for free and anet greenlit it until they had templates in game. They are going to force arc to shut down and so a feature we did used to have for free is now being reintroduced behind a paywall. This isn't cool.

You know Anet has all legal right to ban any account using ARCPS if they wanted too. ARCPDS won't be forced to shut down, it is still used and will be used for what it was made for a DPS meter. Arc including build templets was just a bonus from the creator nothing more.

[Neutra.6857]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@yoni.7015 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

Except the "template" I am getting is objectively worse for me then the 3rd party template I was using. I have legendary gear, so the space being saved in inventory is not actually being saved, meanwhile I have to now memorize my various different equipment builds for my characters where s before with the 3rd party thing I just clicked 1 button and I was finished. Those using legendary gear and the 3rd party plugin (that was allowed by Anet) are being harmed by this update.

It is possible it might allow you to store the same equipment as multiple builds, since they said the gear templates will remembers stat selections of gear.

Also you are forgetting the * after "allowed by anet" it was allowed only as a temporary stop-gap and this was known before all this. It technically violated the rules anet put in place about 3rd party add-ons but they agreed to allow it until they could create an official version.

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@yoni.7015 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It is not the same game. It is like comparing apples with bananas. They made the decision and we should respect that.

The only thing where you are right at. And I certainly will show respect to that in terms of not spending more money like I have done in the past to support the game and its development a.k.a. the devs, the management team and NCSoft's shareholders.Maybe I will overthink my decision when I actually get real content back in a reasonable amount and not the stuff that happened the last months/the last year. The direction is crystal clear: Skins aren't enough any longer. A feature that should have been in the game since its release and is for free in every other comparable game must be sold which means this company is in trouble; more than we could have thought after the layoffs in spring. I'm not trying to demonize it but I'm sure we are seeing the beginning of the end. Maintenance mode is coming.

Just speculations, nothing else. And we are getting templates for free.

Except the "template" I am getting is objectively worse for me then the 3rd party template I was using. I have legendary gear, so the space being saved in inventory is not actually being saved, meanwhile I have to now memorize my various different equipment builds for my characters where s before with the 3rd party thing I just clicked 1 button and I was finished. Those using legendary gear and the 3rd party plugin (that was allowed by Anet) are being harmed by this update.

It is possible it might allow you to store the same equipment as multiple builds, since they said the gear templates will remembers stat selections of gear.

Also you are forgetting the * after "allowed by anet" it was allowed only as a temporary stop-gap and this was known before all this. It technically violated the rules anet put in place about 3rd party add-ons but they agreed to allow it until they could create an official version.

From the looks of the chat today, a single sigil or rune difference needs to be a different template, let alone different armor stats (ie having legendary as beserker is 1 template, having it as Viper' is a second template). This was something that was before free and unlimited with arc. That is why I am saying that for those who use legendary with arc, this was objectively worse, while for those who use non-legendary stuff, this is equal or better then arc.

[Trise.2865]

@solemn.9608 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yeah, unfortunately feeling entitled to getting everything for free is a thing.Imagine you are building a house on some acreage. Your best bud lends you a few power tools.It takes two years, for the sake of the argument.All of a sudden, right as you are about to finish building the house, your boss shows up on your property and says "nope, these power tools are mine now, and you will be paying me a fee for every power tool you have exceeding the quantity of 3".

So ... are you a yes man? Or not

Except the "friend" in this scenario, representing ArcDPS, doesn't own the tools they lent you, which means they were, by definition, stolen tools. That makes you criminally liable, and an accessory to their multiple counts of theft (possibly fraud, considering the tools are rented from a third party). Assuming "your boss", representing ArenaNet I assume, (though it makes more sense if it was HIS boss , but that's far less significant in this mess of an analogy) has full ownership and legal claim to the tools (which they do), and charges rental fees for the use of said tools (which they are), then not only is your friend liable for damages, but YOU are now on the hook for back payments. Allowing you to use the tools at all is a kindness.

Now if one were paying attention, they'd see what is actually happening is "your boss" (ANet) is telling you, "you can still use some of these tools for free, and you can swap tools as many times as you like (because that's how templating works), but if you want more of them at a time, then we have to charge you."

...none of which has any significant impact on the main purpose of having tools: completing a project, which in this case means "playing the game".

And since you asked: No, I am not a "yes man". If I were, I would have blindly agreed with you too, like your own cronies have.

[Neutra.6857]

@InvaGir.9158 said:

@"Cameryn.5310" said:Dear lord, what is WRONG with you people!??!?!?!

You literally play this game every day without any sort of payment for it, except that which you give voluntarily.

You literally have played this game FOR YEARS, COMPLETELY SUCCESSFULLY, without ANY build templates at all, just one spec that you've had to rotate.

You're getting the ability to have a second build for free, per character, that you can swap to at any time.

And now you're CRYING that having a third or more is going to cost you?!?!??!

Please go to your local dictionary and look up the word "entitlement."

This is just getting utterly ridiculous. The hurt being displayed here is absolute nonsense.

Nothing makes them happy and greatful and they just spill neagtivity everywhere and make people like me and you mad.They should just leave the game imo because they're obviously not happy here :\

Oh, apparently you have a mind reading device? I suggest you buy new one, it has failed utterly.I like this game, I particularly liked it when I used arc since arc did exactly what I needed it to do. This set of build templates does not do what arc did, and removes my ability to use arc. I have paid for things in game, many times, including for story things that I missed, and I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue is with a QOG update that makes my QOG worse.

[Trise.2865]

"People caught stealing cable for years angry about paying for cable"