NERF RANGERS

[Avatar.3568]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Dumb topic. Ranger is together with necro the most underperforming class in both ATs and higher ranked Q's.

Triggert

[Mime.9308]

remove all ccs from pet and have cc only on f2's would be great, and nerf gazelle damage but fix its ai. rest of the allcaps post i didnt read.

[ZeteCommander.4937]

Finally, someone found out

[Daishi.6027]

Only things problematic about ranger are:

Sustain tools - This is primarily because of wilderness survival in combination with weapons like MH sword which has two built in evasions on short cooldowns, and GS which has a really good block, with a flip over for a CC+evade, on top of endurance regen on auto. Among other options plus CC, and boons, to mitigate damage and let it safely regain HP even on builds only running demolisher; which is why things like Troll Unguent seem so powerful, when alone the heal skill's design is not really that much of an issue.(beast master is a bit to blame too)Along with things like Hunter's Shot which is a reliable target drop in a 3 stealth packet, on only a 12 second cooldown, Almost the equivalent of a 30 second cooldown utility.

If this was it, that would be reasonable if not for:Pet - reliable passive damage that ignore's line of sight, cannot be easily cleaved and bursted down, and if focused will waste your cooldowns as it's quickly swapped out. Not to mention for any class that can stealth in turn, the animal just instantly keeps track. Which may be reasonably thematic, but countering something like that should only be active. Either way for something that can capitalize on range damage, it too easily and without punishment pressures targets behind LoS.

And finally:Downstate - Once down the ranger can deny stomp twice depending on the pet, while also reviving itself way to easily; in a way that can out heal cleave. This creates a dynamic with the down system, and conquest that I personally do not think is healthy for the game-type. But this one I can agree to disagree and move past it.

This is on top of good reliable damage both long and short range, which personally I think is fine to exist and should be preserved, but it has to much surviability baked in that makes damage specs too safe.

That said, no where near the problem of the likes of pre-nerf Holo in a team game environment.

[Engal.6359]

@"LazySummer.2568" said:

My arguments?

BROKEN AI PET SPAMMING CC EVERY 5s AND DOING 80% OF THE DPS FOR THEMGOD LIKE LEVEL OF SUSTAIN + MOBILITY / KITING WITH MUDDY TERRAIN HEAL SPAMINSANE 1500 (MORE LIKE 2000) RANGE SIC EM PEW PEWEVADE SPAM THAT RIVALS EVEN WEAVERS AND THIEVES (i mean just look at their sword, greatsword, dagger skills cmon)

If they're on core bambi build they dont have a sic em pew pew so idk how your logic works there. Also you're saying sd is a "broken" ranger set? Have you ever played the class? No one has played sd for years for a reason dude.

inb4 l2p / just dodge 4head. Only monkey, biased ranger mains use these non-arguments.

Us monkey power mesmer mains use these arguments too :)

[aymnad.9023]

First of all the title is wrong. You are only talking about slb so it is not ranger in general.Then Sicem and plasma are not in the same build. You are mixing a damage build and a tanky build.One has high damage, anti burst but low sustain. Other has good sustain and a short burst. Nothing makes sense in your description. It is also important to note that all those builds have clear weaknesses and are fully outclassed by other professions.

@Daishi.6027 said:

What you describe is what most people think are issues but if they played ranger they would know that none of those points are valid. Still I want to thank you for beeing more constructive than what I can read in this thread.I mean… yikes...

Sustain tools - This is primarily because of wilderness survival in combination with weapons like MH sword which has two built in evasions on short cooldowns, and GS which has a really good block, with a flip over for a CC+evade, on top of endurance regen on auto. Among other options plus CC, and boons, to mitigate damage and let it safely regain HP even on builds only running demolisher; which is why things like Troll Unguent seem so powerful, when alone the heal skill's design is not really that much of an issue.Sword : not used right now. (and does not do anything else)GS : block is definitly strong. It could get a 0.5s decrease. But auto sucks. You will almost never reach the 3rd one because this is suicide (super long animation and backswing) and the endurance is mediocre.Troll Ungent : Not that strong. Clearly leaves a window of opportunity to kill ranger or use poison to weaken it. It is only working because ranger has tools to disengage or defend during a short time but if they do that, rigth after that you can go all in no problem.

WS : Sadly mandatory for any build. Ranger litteraly has no dispell outside of that. We used to have shouts but that you were forced to take soldiers rune and that was not the best option (ratio cd / effect). Also important to note is that core ranger only has 1 STABILITY SOURCE. It is one of the professions with the least amount of stab. And guess what? Stunbreacks are also in survival. (edit : and I forgot about protection + regen it gives. Even with such an overloaded branch ranger struggles. But be sure that we would love having more options and note that it happens also for other professions)

Beastmastery : Mandatory if you want to have an ok pet (yes only ok, see other points). Necessary for slb to get well it's e-spec mechanics.

Along with things like Hunter's Shot which is a reliable target drop in a 3 stealth packet, on only a 12 second cooldown, Almost the equivalent of a 30 second cooldown utility.This stealth is shorter than the 30s cd you see on other professions + it is not reliable. Why ?First it is not instant, then it is a projectile (with a clear animation). It can be dodged, blocked, reflected. Not to mention that any profession with detection or tether (sb, revenant, holo) will make ranger on lb dead meat if it dispells it.

Pet - reliable passive damage that ignore's line of sight, cannot be easily cleaved and bursted down, and if focused will waste your cooldowns as it's quickly swapped out. Not to mention for any class that can stealth in turn, the animal just instantly keeps track. Which may be reasonably thematic, but countering something like that should only be active. Either way for something that can capitalize on range damage, it too easily and without punishment pressures targets behind LoS.Common belief too. Have you played ranger vs those following professions or the opposite? Try to see how fast the pet dies to : condi mirage, symbol guard, fire weaver. They do not even target the pet but clean it like nothing. Heck even spellbreacker loves the pet! Free tether for them! Damage is mediocre to bad if you let the pet by itself, it gets killed easily and ranger is litteraly destroyed by LoS. (war players just hide and wait to kill the pet). I am not even talking about a mid fight but I assume you were thinking about 1V1.

And finally:Downstate - Once down the ranger can deny stomp twice depending on the pet, while also reviving itself way to easily; in a way that can out heal cleave. This creates a dynamic with the down system, and conquest that I personally do not think is healthy for the game-type. But this one I can agree to disagree and move past it.This one can be debatable but I can understand how people get frustrated against it. I think that ranger damage / other spells on downstate are on par with the rest only because of this sustain.

This is on top of good reliable damage both long and short range, which personally I think is fine to exist and should be preserved, but it has to much surviability baked in that makes damage specs too safe.Again which build are we talking about ? They all have clear weaknesses. (see above)

Last point : I said in different posts that ranger is fine only in a solo queue environment. I still stand by that. Any profession outclasses ranger in a different domain. Any good team does on ranger the same thing they did to scourges in the past. Focus them. All the professions with tp are on ranger, always.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

l2p / just dodge 4head

Im not a ranger main in any game mode

[verskore.4312]

@LazySummer.2568 said:Dunno, I think this class is trying to fly under the radar from the pee vee pee subforums by being the last class not mentioned, and I mean, I still see them played in like every one of my plat games so it must mean they're OP.

My arguments?

BROKEN AI PET SPAMMING CC EVERY 5s AND DOING 80% OF THE DPS FOR THEMGOD LIKE LEVEL OF SUSTAIN + MOBILITY / KITING WITH MUDDY TERRAIN HEAL SPAMINSANE 1500 (MORE LIKE 2000) RANGE SIC EM PEW PEWOP BLOCK WITH CC + EVADE ON SUPER LOW 15s CD WHEN ALL OTHER CCS ABILITIES HAVE AT LEAST 20s CD (dont fact check me on this one pls i didt do research ty)STEALTH SPAM + PLASMA (kitten I THOUGHT ONLY THIEVES ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ACCESS THESE CHEATS LMAO)EVADE SPAM THAT RIVALS EVEN WEAVERS AND THIEVES (i mean just look at their sword, greatsword, dagger skills c'mon)BRAINDEAD DOWNSTATE THANKS AGAIN TO THEIR AIREVIVES THEIR AI FOR FREE BY MERGINGand to top this all off they also got CRAZY STABILITY UP TIME WITH LIKE 20 STACKS BY JUST PRESSING 2 BUTTONS.

inb4 l2p / just dodge 4head. Only monkey, biased ranger mains use these non-arguments.

You mad cus you get oneshotted by a soulbeast?It's actually laughable you even mention dagger and to a certain extend sword since both weapons are actually garbage and hardly ever used.You say godlike mobility but that's only an option if the soulbeast is using owl and since you mentioned plasma it means the owl will be swapped by the pig so bye bye great mobility. Besides plasma isnt a 100% guaranteed drop from the pig and you even have to pick it up so it's quite tedious and hardly used atm.The only stability they get is from their elite which is on quite a big CD and with a necro it's boonripped in no time (same for dolyak stance).Range wise (your 2000 range argument is just silly), just have some awareness and literally stand behind anything and bye bye range burst, sure it's harder on some maps but stupid ez on other maps to get LoS.Stealth spam that rivals thief? good joke, if ranger wouldn't have an escape like that they'd get farmed hard by thieves/revs.Cant even believe you'd QQ about the ranger heal which nobody ever did cus it's completely fine.

However GS 4 is idd a very strong skill atm and could use some adjustment, maybe a CD increase.Gazelle damage is indeed stupid high and will certainly get nerfed which is very justified.

So yeah, guess it's just a l2p issue here. gg wp

[Aeolus.3615]

My only concern is the mobility of some specs builds that can be made in ranger elites, builds that go for damage need to loose more on the other fields....some builds end with to much that can carry easilly under some circunstancies sometimes to much.

But that’s a gamewide issue...

[Psycoprophet.8107]

What I find broken on rangers is the pet cc,its absolutely broken and some smart dev at anet thought that a passive cc design was good lmao though shouldn't be surprised. I can pop two black powders on a ranger and its wavern will still cc me stopping from stomping which is ridiculous, than add a necro on the team and u can down them 50 times over in the match and never be able to stomp the damn classes. The whole down mechanic is a noob hold ur hand bs addition and it's clear that just like the rest of the game anet is incapable of actually balancing the downed aspect anything close to what resembles balance.

[Avatar.3568]

A ranger can have 2 save interrupts in downstate (when spot is skilled) and 1 passive that might work, with the correct pet and enaugh f1 spam

[Tycura.1982]

Ranger is fine. Deer could stand a shave.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Tycura.1982 said:Ranger is fine. Deer could stand a shave.

I agree ranger itself doesnt feel too op itself, I just feel pets should give the ranger hsrd cc only when merged.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@knite.1542 said:How dare you imply that rangers are OP.

The ranger police will be here to correct you soon.

Lets get ahead of them:

BuT IT DoEsNt sEE PLaY iN aTs !!!11!!

You need to be careful. Sarcastic/joke comments made with alternating upper-lower case can get you a warning.

[Absinthey.5340]

If you really think Rangers need a nerf you are simply having a L2P issue and you're bad at the game. Though, you're so delusional that you will never accept that it's a problem within yourself and not with the class.

Gazelle can be toned down, certainly, but in doing so Ranger will become even more of a meme than it already is in Ranked.

[ElderNewt.5840]

Good counter to warrior CC/KD spam.

[dDuff.3860]

What trade-off soulbeast get for elite spec? Why core ranger is allowed to have PoF pets? Answer to these questions will fix the problem, I believe.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@dDuff.3860 said:What trade-off soulbeast get for elite spec?

What u mean? It got increased stats and 3 pet skills when merged, that's a trade off no? Lol oh wait that's a trade up.

[XECOR.2814]

@Absinthey.5340 said:If you really think Rangers need a nerf you are simply having a L2P issue and you're bad at the game. Though, you're so delusional that you will never accept that it's a problem within yourself and not with the class.

Gazelle can be toned down, certainly, but in doing so Ranger will become even more of a meme than it already is in Ranked.

Ranger pet should be killable in all specs period. Considering how much cc, damage potential they have.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Absinthey.5340 said:If you really think Rangers need a nerf you are simply having a L2P issue and you're bad at the game. Though, you're so delusional that you will never accept that it's a problem within yourself and not with the class.

Gazelle can be toned down, certainly, but in doing so Ranger will become even more of a meme than it already is in Ranked.

Ranger pet should be killable in all specs period. Considering how much cc, damage potential they have.

It's realistically not much at all. You guys keep complaining endlessly about Ranger pets, but the truth is that their damage has only ever been nerfed over the last 8 years and not once buffed. The only thing that has changed since PoF release, is great power creep in the DPS department to the actual character classes, not minions or AIs.

You guys are gonna complain about Ranger pets to the point that Arenanet removes damage from pets and then reallocates it back onto the Ranger somewhere as compensation. Be careful what you ask for.

[XECOR.2814]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Absinthey.5340 said:If you really think Rangers need a nerf you are simply having a L2P issue and you're bad at the game. Though, you're so delusional that you will never accept that it's a problem within yourself and not with the class.

Gazelle can be toned down, certainly, but in doing so Ranger will become even more of a meme than it already is in Ranked.

Ranger pet should be killable in all specs period. Considering how much cc, damage potential they have.

It's realistically not much at all. You guys keep complaining endlessly about Ranger pets, but the truth is that their damage has only ever been nerfed over the last 8 years and not once buffed. The only thing that has changed since PoF release, is great power creep in the DPS department to the actual character classes, not minions or AIs.

You guys are gonna complain about Ranger pets to the point that Arenanet removes damage from pets and then reallocates it back onto the Ranger somewhere as compensation. Be careful what you ask for.

I dont know which part of my comment you misunderstood. Idc abt the damage, even though its a bit high. I just want them to be killable and should go to cd when killed to allow counterplayability. Also they need to put range restriction on pet. What rangers do is keep you in combat with their pets and be 1million miles away and get reset.

[bighead.3465]

Just wait until my "inf evasion life leech, unblockable condi dmg, condi stack on every attack dodged, high burst and sustain" bunker condi ranger becomes the norm. The truth is ranger has always been the perfect profession. Always will be, no nerf change to mechanics will ever change that.

[Weasel.9684]

Gazelle charge hitting for 7k plus on the regular isn’t cool and neither is the passive cc are my big complaints.The pet not respecting line of sight sucks but it’s manageable. And yes killing the pet should be meaningful as well as the downstate bs.Two interrupts that’s fine the healing that outdoes cleave is not.

[reikken.4961]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Oh and on a side note, please stop the ultra over exaggerations of Ranger damage. Even on a Berserker/Skirm/Beast/Soulbeast who is using Sic Em, it's rare to see Mauls over 11k, or WI over 12-13k, or Rapid Fires over 10-12k, and even those numbers are if the person has no protection and has vuln on them. A lot of you guys like to say: "I got 1SHOT by a Ranger" and that is just not true at all. For anything to look like a 1SHOT on a Ranger at this point, it has to be a Soulbeast merged who is using Sic Em, and you must be getting caught in a long combo such as: LB 5 > Rapid Fire and you're not moving out of the way or trying to LOS at all. When it comes to Maul/WI, at best you're getting 2HKO if the Soulbeast is running glass cannon Sic Em, which means you can kill him just as fast as he can kill you.

I got +1ed by an 18k worldly impact from stealth in october

don't remember if I ended up winning the game or not, and killed that guy plenty of times, but it was really dumb to play against

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Marauder axe boonbeast btw The shit hit the levels of condition mesmer cancer when it can have ridiculous mobility and at the same time instagib and OUTSUSTAIN you.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/597099812621647874/659617799588806656/unknown.png

Also buffing druid? Lmao please, enough of that spastic dumb bunker suffocating bullshit. You had tons of that back in season 2 (and till when?) yet bunker tempest got repetedly nerfed while your bullshit got buffed 3 times in a row. But yeah I get it "rush & camp far for ez pips" must be all you know