Buff core necro stability access

[Sobx.1758]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Yup, I say "easy", because it is easy.And remember to keep crying about power creep, but when it comes to proposing the changes to the game, don't try to reduce the power creep, instead just kittening buff EVERYTHING to the faceroll level. Perfectly logical solution.

While I agree with you that the necromancer have easy access to stab (when built for it) and overall a balanced amount of stab sources

And that's really all there is to it -but somehow people are still arguing they don't have enough stab when they don't even use what's available to them.You say that they complain because they are weaker than others against hard cc -I disagree, it's more like they're weeker than some and still stronger than the others. Also from what I see, they mostly want to have stab splattered "here and there" throughout their fav builds just so they can faceroll more. That's just stupid.Necro has no choice but to facetank virtually all incoming CC.

Oh my bad, didn't see the dodge-removing patch notes. In that case, put stab on every necro skill -that way he won't "have to facetank all incoming cc" and it would vastly improve the decisionmaking when playing it, because it's not like people already use it to run into groups of enemies and spam aoes.

Or, you know, stop lying to push your agenda.

Or you could stop lying to push yours.

How/when did I lie?

[Anchoku.8142]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Stability stacks, now, and some skills remove multiple stacks. Stab is also a boon and is vulnerable to stripping and corruption. The use of stab and control effects have changed a lot over the years.

There has been power creep around hard CC to account for.

How is that a direct response to what I said?

I was trying to point out, obliquely and gently, that you do not seem to understand the profession or state of the game as well as you think.

[Sobx.1758]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Stability stacks, now, and some skills remove multiple stacks. Stab is also a boon and is vulnerable to stripping and corruption. The use of stab and control effects have changed a lot over the years.

There has been power creep around hard CC to account for.

How is that a direct response to what I said?

I was trying to point out, obliquely and gently, that you do not seem to understand the profession or state of the game as well as you think.

By writing something unrelated to what I wrote? Good job.If you think overloading skills/traits/builds is the way to go then you're the one that doesn't understand what should be happening balance-wise.

[Shroud.2307]

Lmao @ some of the people here who obviously think the right way to play Necro is like a Warrior.

I love Necro to death ( no pun intended ) and I'd be happy to see certain things buffed/improved/reworked, but I also think ( and have said many times lately ) that core and Reaper are in a very good spot. No, you cannot face tank damage and it's true, Necro has no blocks, invulnerability or extra dodges. It is not true however that it has poor sustain, it's just that people choose not to build around the options it has because it often sacrifices too much damage. This isn't a problem exclusive to Necromancer, it's just one of a few that has it worse than others. And that doesn't mean it's options for sustain are bad, it just means it fulfills a different role.

You can't have a class that specializes in converting buffs to debuffs, and can do so rapidly and en masse, that's also hard to punish. Otherwise you wind up with something similar to how Scourge was closer to the beginning of it's release, but some how more obnoxious.

Necro has the benefit of being the one class that has extremely strong control over something no other class does. Giving it more access to Stability might not make it OP but it will definitely push it towards the brain dead button mashing meta that many want to avoid.

I think some very small Stability buffs here or there would be okay ( unlike the ones I shared earlier in the thread. I was spit balling and did not think it through thoroughly ), but I also don't think it's desperately needed.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Necro has pretty poor comparative sustain in PvP areas because its sustain requires hitting your target (Signet of Undeath is not enough). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when combined with its nigh inability to deal with CC it results in not being able to last long without somebody else keeping you alive.

[XECOR.2814]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Lmao @ some of the people here who obviously think the right way to play Necro is like a Warrior.

I love Necro to death ( no pun intended ) and I'd be happy to see certain things buffed/improved/reworked, but I also think ( and have said many times lately ) that core and Reaper are in a very good spot. No, you cannot face tank damage and it's true, Necro has no blocks, invulnerability or extra dodges. It is not true however that it has poor sustain, it's just that people choose not to build around the options it has because it often sacrifices too much damage. This isn't a problem exclusive to Necromancer, it's just one of a few that has it worse than others. And that doesn't mean it's options for sustain are bad, it just means it fulfills a different role.

You can't have a class that specializes in converting buffs to debuffs, and can do so rapidly and en masse, that's also hard to punish. Otherwise you wind up with something similar to how Scourge was closer to the beginning of it's release, but some how more obnoxious.

Necro has the benefit of being the one class that has extremely strong control over something no other class does. Giving it more access to Stability might not make it OP but it will definitely push it towards the brain dead button mashing meta that many want to avoid.

I think some very small Stability buffs here or there would be okay ( unlike the ones I shared earlier in the thread. I was spit balling and did not think it through thoroughly ), but I also don't think it's desperately needed.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Lmao @ some of the people here who obviously think the right way to play Necro is like a Warrior.

I love Necro to death ( no pun intended ) and I'd be happy to see certain things buffed/improved/reworked, but I also think ( and have said many times lately ) that core and Reaper are in a very good spot. No, you cannot face tank damage and it's true, Necro has no blocks, invulnerability or extra dodges. It is not true however that it has poor sustain, it's just that people choose not to build around the options it has because it often sacrifices too much damage. This isn't a problem exclusive to Necromancer, it's just one of a few that has it worse than others. And that doesn't mean it's options for sustain are bad, it just means it fulfills a different role.

You can't have a class that specializes in converting buffs to debuffs, and can do so rapidly and en masse, that's also hard to punish. Otherwise you wind up with something similar to how Scourge was closer to the beginning of it's release, but some how more obnoxious.

Necro has the benefit of being the one class that has extremely strong control over something no other class does. Giving it more access to Stability might not make it OP but it will definitely push it towards the brain dead button mashing meta that many want to avoid.

I think some very small Stability buffs here or there would be okay ( unlike the ones I shared earlier in the thread. I was spit balling and did not think it through thoroughly ), but I also don't think it's desperately needed.

We are forced to use blood magic+all utility skills just for survival while on tanky condi builds with speed runes or runes with any kind of mobility like traveler and carrion amulet to just be able to kite for a few seconds in pvp. The gameplay still is very punishing. You are chased to death like a dog and no amount of kiting will save you unless you have a fb even with which you need to kite to survive the damage rn. I know that kiting is necessary aspect of gameplay for necro but its too much of that rn. Getting chained cc from full lf and hp to 0 in under 3 secs while trying to kite your best. If you dont have a team the game is actually unplayable. You will just get beaten up like a punching bag and will be farmed off spawn against any plat+ enemies. Reaper is not viable in pvp team imo if you want to make a team and want to win. Too many broken stuff out there that deletes necro power builds from existence of they look at it. The problem does not come from lack of stability for necro, its always has been and will be the lack of mobility on weapon skills and too much mobility on other classes

[FalsePromises.6398]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

Core:

damage: mediocreaoe: badrange: goodsustain goodcc resistance: badsupport: mediocre

Reaper:

damage: goodaoe: mediocrerange: badsustain: mediocrecc resistance: goodsupport: bad

Scourge:

damage: badaoe: goodrange: mediocresustain badcc resistance: mediocresupport: good

Mechanically the specs a balanced.

Side note regarding the support capabilities because I think not everyone will agreee with me here:Good for scourge because it has support built in its general mechanic.Medicore for core because it can pick 3 core traitlines making it easier to run a support traitline like blood magic without giving up too much other utility.Bad for reaper as it's 100% selfish as long as you don't pick blood magic and even when you pick it, the spec is less flexible than core regarding support.

I'd have to disagree. Stability becomes an issue for core because core has far more longer casts and reliance on casted abilities than other specializations. Things like scourge and reaper have higher stability to better orient themselves on a battlefield, whereas core has none (which anet likely believes balances its healthpool) but has some of the longest channeled abilities and reliance on casted effects in the game, aside from maybe staff elementalist. Saying they're balanced based on offensive capabilities isn't really a fair comparison when you consider the ability of other classes to disrupt those abilities. Also I'd swap the damage of core and scourge: scourge has far more damage than core, core just uses gimmick fearlocks and compounding what little condition application they have (and I've played core terrormancer as well as scourge terrormancer, I will say core's actually rather sparse condition style relies heavily on fear for its damage with a straight face, and that's half because they have reliance on converts for lockdown and half because they need lockdown and fear to land half their telegraphed casts, etc.). Scourge also has far better range ability. Scourge can access burning and torment and cripple with its shades from 900 range. Core necro's strongest damage skills are 900 range or less, and most of them are in that lesser range of 300-600 radius channeled abilities or 600 range casts. Scourge on the other hand relies more on shades for damage and instead uses weapon skills for filler/extra pressure, so they have far more range capability. To say scourge range is bad is to say you only use sand savant and never cast a shade. With those fixes, core on this list becomes riddled with bad and mediocre with its only redeeming quality being sustain. I'm fine with keeping that sustain as a defining quality, so long as it isn't near completely trumped by stunchains and the likes.

[FalsePromises.6398]

If there's one thing I'd like to share in regards to this whole idea, is that people really don't understand exactly what life force entails. One needs to consider shroud baseline mechanics (AKA how shroud reduces all incoming damage by 50% which doesn't show in combat logs but applies to shroud health) and life force generation in that respect. Basically, with these ideas in mind, all your life force generation skills become basically heals, except double their listed number values, only trick is they're only accessible in a charged transform. Necromancer DOES lack dodges, blocks, evades, but it at the VERY LEAST somewhat makes up for it with sheer vitality and "healing" if I may call it that. As much as I would love to go nuts buffing necromancer, people are already saying core necro's life force generation is a little too strong, and to be honest I agree that at least the blood variant has a lot with unholy martyr. I'd greatly enjoy if leaving shroud had a stability effect so you're not immediately punished the moment you leave shroud, and if shroud itself had a stunbreak in one of the 1-5 skills so as to not become a chewtoy the moment your stability wears off. However, I believe people don't give core enough credit for what it does, and it's because they play it straightforward and not as a reactive style as it should be. Core necro's primary defense when it boils down to it is kiting and positioning. Kite melee classes that chase, punish their leaps. The only reason warriors can ever beat that is if they have absurd might generation (and resultantly endurance/healing) without consistently touching you from magebane tether or For Great Justice, which I certainly hope get nerfed, and Heralds can beat that because mobility, chill, and raw damage/cc is their forte, so it's just counterplay. Use environmental cover to your advantage against ranged classes if you're solo, bait them closer for punishment. That tactic only doesn't work on rangers because they somehow have absurd cleanses: I've seen rangers step in ninth pulse plaguelands and walk it off with 90% health left, and NOT using bear stance to do so. Necromancer has to play like that: they have to abuse enemy weaknesses, punish their openings, and stay alive to do so, even if it means getting a little dirty. That's what necro is all about: subverting enemies, making their strengths weaknesses, and making their charges vulnerabilities. In a 1v1 setting, necromancers are rather capable if you play them right, there's just a few classes with overtuned stuff that result in unfair hands, and some classes simply have counterplay unless you can take advantage of extremely tiny openings. I personally would enjoy more wards like spectral ring countering evades so as to allow necromancer to have a little more control in terms of enemy position and punishing charges, because spectral ring alone, while barely sufficient, is VERY good defensively when facing those silly core warriors that run no stability or thieves who think dagger storm is just godmode. More wards and maybe better projectile blocks, and (alongside previous buffs, such as stability on leaving shroud and a stunbreak in the shroud skill bar) BAM necromancer would be 100% golden if you ask me. Maybe they could slap some projectile destroy fields onto staff? Marks are a defining mechanic of necromancer, but if I could get a solid ranged defensive mechanic such as a projectile destroy field on a weapon skill (since taking utilities for anything other than converts, stunbreaks, teleports, or spectral ring is near unthinkable in pvp) I would be willing to part with these beloved marks as a necro main myself.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Honestly, if they reworked Staff to not have any Marks at all, I don't think anyone would actually be upset. Dependent, of course, on what the new skills are.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

And let's not forget that our best stab (speaking of core) is attached to a specific grandmaster trait (Foot in the Grave). Try building a core necro without Soul Reaping and only stab you can get yourself is 1s from Well of Power:/

One of main reasons i love necro so much is how balanced and non mandatory it's traitlines are. This is one very sad exception however. I think there should be another stab somewhere, so we're not armtwisted in Soul Reaping simply because of Foot in the Grave.

[Nimon.7840]

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:And let's not forget that our best stab (speaking of core) is attached to a specific grandmaster trait (Foot in the Grave). Try building a core necro without Soul Reaping and only stab you can get yourself is 1s from Well of Power:/

One of main reasons i love necro so much is how balanced and non mandatory it's traitlines are. This is one very sad exception however. I think there should be another stab somewhere, so we're not armtwisted in Soul Reaping simply because of Foot in the Grave.

Actually I play a build with 0 stab and it does really well in especially 1v1 situations:https://tinyurl.com/yfb7klnc

Only thing that sucks, is that having to use sylvari elite.

Easy to kill holos and revs, pretty good against warriors, decent against soulbeasts and thieves, okayish against mesmer, but good mesmers will kill you.bunker firebrand is almost impossible to kill though

[Shroud.2307]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:And let's not forget that our best stab (speaking of core) is attached to a specific grandmaster trait (Foot in the Grave). Try building a core necro without Soul Reaping and only stab you can get yourself is 1s from Well of Power:/

One of main reasons i love necro so much is how balanced and non mandatory it's traitlines are. This is one very sad exception however. I think there should be another stab somewhere, so we're not armtwisted in Soul Reaping simply because of Foot in the Grave.

Actually I play a build with 0 stab and it does really well in especially 1v1 situations:

https://tinyurl.com/yfb7klnc

Only thing that sucks, is that having to use sylvari elite.

Easy to kill holos and revs, pretty good against warriors, decent against soulbeasts and thieves, okayish against mesmer, but good mesmers will kill you.bunker firebrand is almost impossible to kill though

I play full zerk and often float around alone in WvW, also with no Stability. There are very few things I struggle with and I don't consider myself to be an exceptional player. Stability isn't mandatory. I don't even consider FitG useful for a power build, period. Death Perception is just too good.

Necro has always been a class that punishes people for over committal, it's defense is it's offense. If you sacrifice too much damage you have nothing but health to protect you.

Also, I'm agreeing with your choice to not use any Stability. Proof reading my comment before posting I realized it sounded more like I was disagreeing.

[Zexanima.7851]

I think there just needs to be less CC across the game.

[Virdo.1540]

i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

[Nimon.7840]

@Virdo.1540 said:i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

Except for long range and mobility being as effective as cc against a necro and also not being able to block or evade any attack with a weapon or utility skill.

Which makes it the class with the most weaknesses

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Much wisdom here ... the fact is that Anet does give us this option, so for anyone to argue we need more ... is cringe-worthy. It's always amazing to me how readily people will dismiss the idea that difficult choices and deficiencies are actually INTENDED.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

Except for long range and mobility being as effective as cc against a necro and also not being able to block or evade any attack with a weapon or utility skill.

Which makes it the class with the most weaknesses

Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Obtena.7952 said:Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

Just going to throw this out there: what are Ranger's weaknesses? What about Mesmer or Ele? Engineer? Warrior?

Ranger used to be weak to reflects and being able to get up in its face. Mesmer used to be weak to getting caught out and bursted. Ele used to be weak to burst. Engineer and Warrior used to be weak to conditions.

The only class in the game that has maintained its weaknesses all the way through is Necro. Guardian is almost arguable due to still being somewhat slow, but they can gap-close decently well now.

[Obtena.7952]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

Just going to throw this out there: what are Ranger's weaknesses? What about Mesmer or Ele? Engineer? Warrior?

Ranger

used

to be weak to reflects and being able to get up in its face. Mesmer

used

to be weak to getting caught out and bursted. Ele

used

to be weak to burst. Engineer and Warrior

used

to be weak to conditions.

The only class in the game that has maintained its weaknesses all the way through is Necro. Guardian is

almost

arguable due to still being somewhat slow, but they can gap-close decently well now.

A common mistake here; what do you hope to accomplish by making these assessments of other classes? Are you of the belief that what these other classes do or have are motivating or compelling arguments for what Necro does or has? If you do believe that, you haven't been paying attention to this game for the last 8 years.

What weaknesses do other classes have? What I know or don't about these classes weaknesses is irrelevant.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

Just going to throw this out there: what are Ranger's weaknesses? What about Mesmer or Ele? Engineer? Warrior?

Ranger

used

to be weak to reflects and being able to get up in its face. Mesmer

used

to be weak to getting caught out and bursted. Ele

used

to be weak to burst. Engineer and Warrior

used

to be weak to conditions.

The only class in the game that has maintained its weaknesses all the way through is Necro. Guardian is

almost

arguable due to still being somewhat slow, but they can gap-close decently well now.

A common mistake here; what do you hope to accomplish by making these assessments of other classes? Are you of the belief that what these other classes do or have are motivating or compelling arguments for what Necro does or has? If you do believe that, you haven't been paying attention to this game for the last 8 years.

What weaknesses do other classes have? What I know or don't about these classes weaknesses is irrelevant.

No, assuming Necromancer is for some unknown reason supposed to be the odd one out when it comes to balancing and updates is a mistake you constantly make. Every one of those classes had their weaknesses removed. Having one class with clear defined weaknesses and 8 others with none is not "making the game more interesting." It's just making the one class bad unless its strengths are so overwhelming to be considered good in spite of that.

Can "bad" be "viable?" Yes, it can. But it also makes everyone who enjoys the class feel like they just made the wrong choice unless they're specifically playing it so they can brag about accomplishing something on the one class that has the hardest time.

Either Necro needs to have its weaknesses addressed or the other 8 professions need their weaknesses firmly established.

[Obtena.7952]

There isn't any reason to presume whatever level of performance you imagine is what necro should be. ... or anyone else for that matter. You can pretend Necros are 'unique' because all the other 8 classes are witihout weaknesses and equivalent in their performance. That would be naive.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Individual builds having weaknesses is one thing and almost true across the board. That is definitely good game design. What is bad game design is when one profession has clearly defined weaknesses to exploit regardless of build and the 8 competitors don't.

Which is better design between the 8 professions without weaknesses or the one with? That can be debated for sure, but all 9 NEED to be on the same playing field for good design or balance. Personally, I would argue that the other 8 should be brought to Necro's field, where each of them have defined and exploitable weaknesses. However, at this point, it would be easier for ANet to correct the issue by giving Necro (the only odd-man out) the tools it needs to effectively remove its profession-based weaknesses and be like the other 8 where weaknesses are defined by build, not class.

[XECOR.2814]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Much wisdom here ... the fact is that Anet does give us this option, so for anyone to argue we need more ... is cringe-worthy. It's always amazing to me how readily people will dismiss the idea that difficult choices and deficiencies are actually INTENDED.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

Except for long range and mobility being as effective as cc against a necro and also not being able to block or evade any attack with a weapon or utility skill.

Which makes it the class with the most weaknesses

Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

This comment assumes that everything in game is intended which is not true and necro in general has more weakness than any other class so there is no reason to not let them breath a bit with good stab access.

[Sobx.1758]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Much wisdom here ... the fact is that Anet does give us this option, so for anyone to argue we need more ... is cringe-worthy. It's always amazing to me how readily people will dismiss the idea that difficult choices and deficiencies are actually INTENDED.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

Except for long range and mobility being as effective as cc against a necro and also not being able to block or evade any attack with a weapon or utility skill.

Which makes it the class with the most weaknesses

Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

This comment assumes that everything in game is intended which is not true and necro in general has more weakness than any other class so there is no reason to not let them breath a bit with good stab access.

Necro already has stab access, there is no reason to overload already popular builds with free stab on top of already picked skills/traits just because you want to faceroll on your keyboard a bit more.

[Axl.8924]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Much wisdom here ... the fact is that Anet does give us this option, so for anyone to argue we need more ... is cringe-worthy. It's always amazing to me how readily people will dismiss the idea that difficult choices and deficiencies are actually INTENDED.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

Except for long range and mobility being as effective as cc against a necro and also not being able to block or evade any attack with a weapon or utility skill.

Which makes it the class with the most weaknesses

Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

This comment assumes that everything in game is intended which is not true and necro in general has more weakness than any other class so there is no reason to not let them breath a bit with good stab access.

Necro already has stab access, there is no reason to overload already popular builds with free stab on top of already picked skills/traits just because you want to faceroll on your keyboard a bit more.

What drarnor said is right, it is ridiculous to expect one class to be hard countered by every class, when meanwhile PU mes or whatever one-shot mirage blow up people while evading infinitely warrs leaping hard cc 1 shot or rifle 1 shots thieves stealth 1 shot with infinite disengages revs insane mobility combined with dmg and hard cc.

Either everyone needs to be nerfed down to our level for fair play, or we need some of our weaknesses covered because we have too much.

[Sobx.1758]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Much wisdom here ... the fact is that Anet does give us this option, so for anyone to argue we need more ... is cringe-worthy. It's always amazing to me how readily people will dismiss the idea that difficult choices and deficiencies are actually INTENDED.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i hope they wont give core necro more stab. Its ony if the only counters for necros

Except for long range and mobility being as effective as cc against a necro and also not being able to block or evade any attack with a weapon or utility skill.

Which makes it the class with the most weaknesses

Maybe ... but that's not a reason to change it either. Again, you don't think it's conceivable Anet intends for some classes to be harder to play than others by having these weaknesses? I absolutely think it is. I doubt most people understand this but ... it's what makes MMO PVP infinitely more interesting than FPS games.

This comment assumes that everything in game is intended which is not true and necro in general has more weakness than any other class so there is no reason to not let them breath a bit with good stab access.

Necro already has stab access, there is no reason to overload already popular builds with free stab on top of already picked skills/traits just because you want to faceroll on your keyboard a bit more.

What drarnor said is right, it is ridiculous to expect one class to be hard countered by every class, when meanwhile PU mes or whatever one-shot mirage blow up people while evading infinitely warrs leaping hard cc 1 shot or rifle 1 shots thieves stealth 1 shot with infinite disengages revs insane mobility combined with dmg and hard cc.

I'm not sure how's that an answer to what I wrote.

Either everyone needs to be nerfed down to our level for fair play, or we need some of our weaknesses covered because we have too much.

Yup, smashing stab everywhere isn't a solution to anything.