GW2 after the layoffs

[lezbefriends.7516]

@tatte.5389 said:

@"finkle.9513" said:Every second month? It was November the last one Its February next few days thats 3- 4 months...

17.9.2019, 19.11.2019, 28.1.2020. Consistent enough for me, and even if it's maybe a week behind, it definitely still qualifies as "every second month". Something something about licking.

LWS4 dates for reference: 28.11.2017, 6.3.2018, 26.6.2018, 18.9.2018, 8.1.2019, 14.5.2019. There's a Finnish idiom about how the time is slow (long) for someone who waits. Give them some slack, I'm sure they have already approached Thanos with a job opportunity.

Who?

[tatte.5389]

@Mortifera.6138 said:Who?

You mean who's Thanos? I haven't watched the documentaries myself, but I believe it's some highly productive guy with a fierce finger snap. Doesn't take days to accomplish stuff like some other pretentious entity.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Rio.4259 said:Yeah the quality has absolutely been affected since then.

Nobody really knows what they are working on, if anything. The only rumor is they might be working on some kind of console game, but there's no actual info on that. Anet was never good at being transparent, so if they are working on anything, we wont know until its almost done already, when its too late for us to give any real input or ideas.

I used to spend a lot of time and money into GW2, but I stopped that. I have standards as to what I will spend money on, and sadly this franchise that I have loved for almost 20 years has dropped below that standard.

+1

very well said

[Arzurag.7506]

@"Trise.2865" said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

I always wondered what would happen if someone would invest into ncsoft, get 51% stock and start funneling the company´s funds into creating quality games, rather than supporting cash-cows with the bare minimum of effort and funds.

"Allright, we won´t make 150% profit anymore but rather get a better repuation, until 150% profit margin, good reputation and good quality of our games and services is the new standard"

[Henry.5713]

They made the obligatory statements anyone would have made after those layoffs. Nothing so far has indicated any improvement over how things have been going for quite a while now.

Don't get me wrong, I still consider Guild Wars 2 a good game that is worth picking up but I haven't felt the "magic" in years. The game might simply no longer be "the one" to many of them. The once in a lifetime project and opportunity. Just another day at the office, working on content because they are supposed to to keep the game going to ensure their paycheck. Hardly the first time we have seen this happen to a studio.

[Blocki.4931]

That's the price we paid when we collectively claimed 4 months of waiting is too long. I don't think these releases are too small, but at least they're coming out at a faster pace on top of that.

[tatte.5389]

@"Arzurag.7506" said:I always wondered what would happen if someone would invest into ncsoft, get 51% stock and start funneling the company´s funds into creating quality games, rather than supporting cash-cows with the bare minimum of effort and funds.

"Allright, we won´t make 150% profit anymore but rather get a better repuation, until 150% profit margin, good reputation and good quality of our games and services is the new standard"

If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't bother with NCSoft. I'd just buy GW2 (ArenaNet and the GW IP) from them outright. Perhaps Wildstar too, depending on the price. I wrote an awfully long post about how I'd have the IP managed, but that probably belongs in its own thread (RIP my day).

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

I always wondered what would happen if someone would invest into ncsoft, get 51% stock and start funneling the company´s funds into creating quality games, rather than supporting cash-cows with the bare minimum of effort and funds.

"Allright, we won´t make 150% profit anymore but rather get a better repuation, until 150% profit margin, good reputation and good quality of our games and services is the new standard"

I think people who actually are capable to amass that kind of money do it exactly because they don't waste their times playing games, but instead invest it into, y'know, building successful businesses ;) So they don't really sympathizes the cause and I even dare to suppose they don't really see it as a very serious cause worth of their charity, when there are tons of much more useful ways (for their country, or humanity altogether) to spend those money.

Just my guess.

[Trise.2865]

@brenda.9723 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

I disagree. Anet wants a GW2 fan community. This means you cant ignore their voices. If Anet was smart, they will have an insentive to not be like this. Your argument works for quick money with no relationship between the consumers and the company.

Buying a can of Coke doesn't give you the right to dictate what products Coca-Cola makes, or what machines they buy, or who they hire for what job. Why would this be any different?

None of which, as I said, is related to the game. This is not community feedback, this is financial advice that none of us are qualified to give.

[Bassdeff.1895]

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

I always wondered what would happen if someone would invest into ncsoft, get 51% stock and start funneling the company´s funds into creating quality games, rather than supporting cash-cows with the bare minimum of effort and funds.

"Allright, we won´t make 150% profit anymore but rather get a better repuation, until 150% profit margin, good reputation and good quality of our games and services is the new standard"

For that to happen NCsoft would need to get bought out by a privately held company . As long as it is a publicly traded company their top priority is making money for their share holders. Privately held companies have more freedom to take risks and are more likely to be satisfied with a smaller profit margin as long as there is a worthwhile profit to be made.

[Balthzar.3807]

Look the reality of what happened was ANET was shuttered and half of the staff was moved into the NCSOFT west offices and so there is no ANET there is a logo that is it and look at NCSOFT west's track record of killing off city of hero's and wildstar as examples. not only don't hold your breath don't bother with the feedback it won't help anything because people would need to care and listen.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Trise.2865 said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

Nonsense, we're operating in the micro-transaction model.

[Trise.2865]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

Nonsense, we're operating in the micro-transaction model.

Micro-transactions are still transactions. Digital products are still products. Virtual sales are still sales. Nothing is changed.

No, renaming them as "Live Services" does not change their nature either, any more than renaming slot machines and loot boxes as "Surprise Mechanics" suddenly makes them not gambling. That's not how things work.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Trise.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

Nonsense, we're operating in the micro-transaction model.

Micro-transactions are still transactions. Digital products are still products. Virtual sales are still sales. Nothing is changed.

Nonsense, the concept of the micro-transaction model (or agreement) is that micro-transactions of course net you the item you bought, but also drive development for ALL players. Thus, while there is no control given to the customer base there is an expectation that continued support nets continued development. Now, you can argue that development is occurring, but it's quality (or the return on investment) is what's at question.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/

[Sigmoid.7082]

@finkle.9513 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@finkle.9513 said:

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:No way of knowing really but the only evidence we have so far was that anet was looking for staff to join their team and preferred someone who worked on console games ... so maybe it's to do with a new project or they just needed someone with that experience (not sure why, I'm not a computer person)

They have told us though that there will be LW releases every second month but have something in between to fill the gaps

Yes it frustrates me too having spent idk a good 1k+ on this game between 2019 and 2020 but I guess if you enjoy the game and u want something worth your money then go for it

Every second month? It was November the last one Its February next few days thats 3- 4 months...

Well they do have winter break so lets see when episode 3 is released.

Oh well then, they do need a break as they have working endlessly on fixing WvW, PvP, .... On no sorry I meant designing shinny things for the gem store!

Better get the artists to help out with the dev work.

[Tinnel.4369]

Evidence shows us that micro-transactions are largely only driving more micro-transaction fodder. There's a large amount of resources going into the BLTC AND keeping the BLTC front and center in front of us. Obviously LS is getting some love, but this doesn't benefit ALL players (GW2 has three modes, remember).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I donno I feel like unless the whole mmo genre changes to meet the quality of modern games of late their just gonna keep losing traction and continue to fade out as a genre and maybe ncsoft doesn't want to invest big into the mmo genre anymore.I realize mmo's have their own limitations due to sheer size of them but think about it, if u are a pve players these days why would spend ur time in gw2 or the like when games like last of us, horizon zero dawn, nioh, divinity original sin etc etc provide 10x the campaign or story in comparison to mmo's. To be social is a great arguement except these days most people playing pve in mmo's arnt even very social.Most games on top of rpg's and action rpg's have a loot or gear progression for people who enjoy that as well as a great deep story and often more mechanics than even these large mmo's. As a pure pve player the pve in a game like gw2 other than that social aspect is so shallow and low quality compared to somthing like hzd or breath of the wild etc.If ur into pvp mmo's are literally known as bottom tier compares to what's out there these days so no wonder population gets lower ever year.If a mmo had a story of the quality of the single player campaigns of the games being released these days and a pvp of same quality as well then I'd question why anets deviating from gw2. Right now it's not a great future investment especially since its dying. Maybe gw3 will reinvent mmos but doubt it.Mmo's arnt what they used to be theses days cuz how much other genres have improved while mmos stayed stagnant.My take on it anyway, apologize for wall of text.

[Trise.2865]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Trise.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

Nonsense, we're operating in the micro-transaction model.

Micro-transactions are still transactions. Digital products are still products. Virtual sales are still sales. Nothing is changed.

Nonsense, the concept of the micro-transaction model (or agreement) is that micro-transactions of course net you the item you bought, but also drive development for ALL players. Thus, while there is no control given to the customer base there is an expectation that continued support nets continued development. Now, you can argue that development is occurring, but it's quality (or the return on investment) is what's at question.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/

What? product sales funding development for new products? What sorcery is this?

Oh wait, that's literally why sales exist. It's called "doing business".

Are you claiming now that business is not business? Because that would be nonsense.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Trise.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Trise.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Everyone should understand something: You already bought (and used) the product(s). It's not your money anymore. Let it go.You want a say in company finances? buy statistically significant shares in NCSoft.

This has nothing to do with this or any game. It's simply how sales transactions work.

Nonsense, we're operating in the micro-transaction model.

Micro-transactions are still transactions. Digital products are still products. Virtual sales are still sales. Nothing is changed.

Nonsense, the concept of the micro-transaction model (or agreement) is that micro-transactions of course net you the item you bought, but also drive development for ALL players. Thus, while there is no control given to the customer base there is an expectation that continued support nets continued development. Now, you can argue that development is occurring, but it's quality (or the return on investment) is what's at question.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/

What? sales fund development for new products? What sorcery is this?

Oh wait, that's

literally why sales exist

. It's called "doing business".

Sort of, but we're talking about micro-transactions. The difference is whether or not you're miffed you bought a lemon and never buy from the company again, or whether you're miffed that you engaged financially in an ongoing relationship and didn't get a fair shake. Regardless, the company will wash their hands and move in some direction, but the consumer responds in the end. Demand drives supply.

BLTC is THE cash cow currently. ANet isn't going to divulge what they're pushing those profits towards for a number of reasons. Most relevant here though, is the fact that if it's revealed that what's next is something where you can't use the precious trinkets you've invested in, the cash cow will dry up in a hurry.

[kratan.4619]

Why would I care where they put their money? It is, after all, their money, not mine anymore. I buy things when I want them and will enjoy them while I play. When the game becomes no longer enjoyable, I will stop buying and playing. Any money spent was worth it for me while I was playing. This is not a long term investment plan.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@kratan.4619 said:Why would I care where they put their money? It is, after all, their money, not mine anymore. I buy things when I want them and will enjoy them while I play. When the game becomes no longer enjoyable, I will stop buying and playing. Any money spent was worth it for me while I was playing. This is not a long term investment plan.

This is a good view to have

[RedBaron.6058]

I think that the new Sacred Pegasus Griffon Skin clarifies all your doubts.

[Zexanima.7851]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@kratan.4619 said:Why would I care where they put their money? It is, after all, their money, not mine anymore. I buy things when I want them and will enjoy them while I play. When the game becomes no longer enjoyable, I will stop buying and playing. Any money spent was worth it for me while I was playing. This is not a long term investment plan.

This is a good view to have

I mean, it's still disappointing when you've invested your time and money into something to see it fall apart. Specially when it's an on going activity you enjoy. Most people cant help but get emotionally invested into something they spend so much time on. Yeah, they have no say in what the devs do but it's not unreasonable for them to be concerned about something they are invested in (emotionally if not monetarily) and want to give suggestions they feel will help (if they are actually good or not).

[otto.5684]

I do not think the "lay offs" are the issue. We have been on a downward trend for a while. It is hard to specifically point out the culprits. The game is getting old, and clearly, management has been performing poorly. NCSOFT does not seem interested in investing in the game.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@kratan.4619 said:Why would I care where they put their money? It is, after all, their money, not mine anymore. I buy things when I want them and will enjoy them while I play. When the game becomes no longer enjoyable, I will stop buying and playing. Any money spent was worth it for me while I was playing. This is not a long term investment plan.

This is a good view to have

I mean, it's still disappointing when you've invested your time and money into something to see it fall apart. Specially when it's an on going activity you enjoy. Most people cant help but get emotionally invested into something they spend so much time on. Yeah, they have no say in what the devs do but it's not unreasonable for them to be concerned about something they are invested in (emotionally if not monetarily) and want to give suggestions they feel will help (if they are actually good or not).

Not at all and I'm in that boat as well, been with gw2 over 5 yrs and have spent countless hrs in the multiple 1000's in it and am saddened by the feeling that gw2 feels realistically on it's way out but I try to think about it in a positive way as that's a long time to be entertained by a game and definitely got my money's worth. Also we all get hooked into MMOs as mmo players that we are but the last yr of discontent I've felt from this game has opened my eyes up to other games like the ones I've mentioned like for example nioh among others. Point is other greater games will fill its void and someday may be gw3, just saying it ain't all bad, just expected.