What's The Trick With Mesmers?

[Svarty.8019]

I've played Guild Wars 2 for 8 years.

I mostly play WvW.

I still run away from Mesmers whenever I see them. Should I? Or is there a trick I can learn that will help me defeat them?

[Mouse.7382]

As my main game type is PvP (occasionally WvW)--any class that ever gave me trouble, I created (most ppl copy and paste meta builds) to see the skills....their CD's, their skill animations--try this.

Mesmer was no different. Ex.See a GS &stealth...hes gonna burst/1shot build..have your invul/block/dodge/etc ready after a few count. See septer/staff...equip condi cleanses and you can dodge the slow moving orbs of the clones when they IH dodge.....etc etc

[Svarty.8019]

I find that I just blow my dodges at the start and then die in an explosion of clones. I tried playing mesmer before with this combo; Blink to the enemy, GS2, GS4, Clone (or whatever it's called), and then F1, but I never do anything like the damage enemy mesmers do to me. I have heard some people say that macro/multi-button mouse is required but I think that may just be exaggeration.

Also, I'm not very quick at pressing buttons. Am I supposed to just die? Is that the game design?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Svarty.8019 said:I find that I just blow my dodges at the start and then die in an explosion of clones. I tried playing mesmer before with this combo; Blink to the enemy, GS2, GS4, Clone (or whatever it's called), and then F1, but I never do anything like the damage enemy mesmers do to me. I have heard some people say that macro/multi-button mouse is required but I think that may just be exaggeration.

Also, I'm not very quick at pressing buttons. Am I supposed to just die? Is that the game design?

I suspect you mean burst power mesmers?with bonus food and all the extra stats I honestly have no idea what can save you from 1shot combos.other then autoproc passive or some stupid build that has 4k toughness and perma protection.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Svarty.8019 said:I find that I just blow my dodges at the start and then die in an explosion of clones. I tried playing mesmer before with this combo; Blink to the enemy, GS2, GS4, Clone (or whatever it's called), and then F1, but I never do anything like the damage enemy mesmers do to me. I have heard some people say that macro/multi-button mouse is required but I think that may just be exaggeration.

Also, I'm not very quick at pressing buttons. Am I supposed to just die? Is that the game design?

The damage is coming from Mantra of Pain, Chronophantasma, etc.

[Anput.4620]

Just play around it, easy.

[viquing.8254]

@Hannelore.8153 saidThe damage is coming from Mantra of Pain, Chronophantasma, etc.If you face a mesmer using chronophantasma you shouldn't die.... Mean dying to a chrono currently is kinda meh.

@Anput.4620 said:Just play around it, easy.You are really linking a thief dying vs a mesmer vid ?? Mean I can do this king of full zerk doing nothing who get one shot versus every class. Hopefully there is way more thief one shot mesmer with 15 k engaging out of stealth with better gap closers and stealth uptime than the opposite...

---

Now for op :Versus a build who really maximise damage with no condiclear and no boonclear :Case 1 : Play thief, have better stealth uptime, enjoy the game.Case 2 : Play necro, put mark on ground, launch instant fear or evade once they disapear. Bonus : launch as much weakness as you can they couldn't burst with it.Case 3 : Play ranger with a little sustain gear, use passive life saver like protective ward or protect me and you should be fine.Case 4 : If you are enough reactive, play a rev with facet of light ready to clic, activate it when he burst then use Gaze of Darness when he back and enjoy your free kill.Case 5 : Play any tank gear on FB/Scrapper, it will work against most random mesmers.

Globally it's weak to :

• condi.
• weakness.
• reveal.
• CC.
• AOE.

[Jobber.6348]

If it is a 1v1, just run if yu can.Mesmers are incredibly frustrating to fight 1v1, and even a poorly played Mesmer can give yu a little jog around the park before yu kill them.

In fact, in WvW, if yu ever encounter another player which yu can't really handle, just run.This is the only benefit WvW has over PvP, because yu can always choose to simply not fight.

Most of the times, the people who survive the best in WvW are the people who have built up a knowledge of terrain and use it frequently to run.Are they good at fighting? Maybe. Maybe not.Are they extremely adept at using their class to run? Hell yea.

If yu really wanna know Mesmer's weakness, it's gotta be heavy Condi burst.Mesmers have pretty poor Condition cleanses that a good Burning stack landing on them will force them out of a heal.

I have killed plenty of Mesmers with just a single Signet of Fire with my Bunker Condi Weaver.Yes. 1 skill. All their health gone.

[Svarty.8019]

... back! 

 

I just wanted to see if I can get more advice on how to play.

I've been trying to learn mesmer as well as fight it, but I'm still no wiser.

[Mell.4873]

13 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

... back! 

 

I just wanted to see if I can get more advice on how to play.

I've been trying to learn mesmer as well as fight it, but I'm still no wiser.

Arg I wouldn't even bother asking here........
 

My guess is you mean PvP in general.

Your best bet is to not take anyone's advice and form your own opinion.
If you did want my advice then what you want to focus on (this goes for PvE too) is the Elite you pick, this defines the Mesmer class. The next thing is gear, Good synergy is key to making the Mesmer build work. This by definition makes Mesmer much stronger in WvW since you can run close to 100% boon duration for example as appose to sPvP where its like 30%.

If you want to play sPvP with Mesmer the duo que since you need a reliable team (mate) to guard you so can get off your burst rotation.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Since all damage comes at the same time, you've to use one dodge to render mesmer useless for 10 seconds since mesmer sustain damage is attrocious.
That's it, see mesmer going into stealth - prepare and time your dodge, if mesmer is not stealthed look for gs2 animation and dodge it.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Since all damage comes at the same time, you've to use one dodge to render mesmer useless for 10 seconds since mesmer sustain damage is attrocious.
That's it, see mesmer going into stealth - prepare and time your dodge, if mesmer is not stealthed look for gs2 animation and dodge it.

Yeah hence my suggestion around duo queing since you can have something like a Willbender exhaust all their dodges first. When a Mesmer works though there is almost no counter play much like thief.

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

When a Mesmer works though there is almost no counter play much like thief.

I don't know where to begin on how untrue this statement is. 

[Veprovina.4876]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

 When a Mesmer works though there is almost no counter play much like thief.

Flat out lies like this is why we keep getting nerfed and why the class is so destroyed right now.

[dead.7638]

A good Mesmer will have already done their rotation to burst before they blink to you or you notice them.   The burst has to be done while you have no stab/prot up as well for it to hit full damage.   It’sa timing mechanic that can go wrong in the whole split second it has to be done in.   They need to also stun/daze you in that same rotation.   Virt does well at this as you can cast 2-3 skills on you right before the blink and everything hits you.  They will have a short cd before another burst can be made or they will have to keep pressure on you if that’s not an option to burst again.   There are some builds that are not full dmg but still hit hard, you don’t need to worry about these mesmers.   

[Mell.4873]

On 11/1/2022 at 2:24 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I don't know where to begin on how untrue this statement is. 

On 11/1/2022 at 4:17 PM, Veprovina.4876 said:

Flat out lies like this is why we keep getting nerfed and why the class is so destroyed right now.

This is exactly why it is hard to post anything positive since once upon a time Mesmer was better that its current state. We need to all stop reflecting on the class of the past and just look at the here and now.

Mesmer was once the Meta sPvP pick, now it isn't. It doesn't mean it cant work with the right team composition to capitalise on Mesmer's high burst damage.

The funny thing now is Mesmer is now a Meta pick for WvW so @Salt Mode.3780 you should be happy about that. It is also mostly core utilities so you can almost run any Mesmer Elite.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Waffles.5632]

Mesmers have one of the steepest learning curves imo, alongside Ele's.

So much so that veteran Mesmers can really do crazy things, while new ones get absolutely eviscerated.

 

The trick to all Mesmers is they have access to a ton of instant cast abilities, several of which also move them (staff 2 and blink are both examples of this)

 

Mirage leans into mobility + condi  (though power mirage is a thing too)

Chrono leans into power + burst  (though bunker chrono is played too, and idk if condi chrono is even a thing or not lol)

Virtu leans into range dps/burst + sustain  (with the caveat of no clones, only phantasms, also Virtu's can go power or condi IIRC)

 

Clones vs Phantasms:

Clones can only auto attack, and with Mirage, clones can also ambush attack, though the ambush of clones is weaker than the ambush of the Mesmer.

 

Phantasms perform their own skill, and then turn into a clone. You can even see the abilities phantasms cast in the combat log.

 

Both clones AND phantasms can be CC'd at any time they exist. This is important because Phantasms perform some of the most powerful attacks a Mesmer has, though keep in mind, Mesmer damage is split into all of their abilities.

 

So like, Warrior uses 100 blades for 20k damage over the course of it's channel, one ability.

A Mesmer can blink in and do 15k damage using like 4 or 5 abilities (it's not 1:1 here forgive me) through a combination of timing their instant cast abilities with their cast time abilities.

 

Clones have like literally 100hp or something I forget, but they can be sneezed at and they will disintegrate.

AOES > Clones.

Phantasms have a little bit more HP, but they're not really out long enough to "burst" down if that makes sense, it's better to just CC them so they can't do their attack.

 

 

Super Simple Example:

A mesmer will often use torch 4  and then try to open up from stealth with their torch 5. This will spawn a phantasm that will run up to you and then it will begin to cast it's ability, backfire, which is an AOE daze, confuse, and burn.

They will then time this with spells such as blink alongside their shatter 2  and their already casted torch 4, so that all of it lands at once.

Again, super simple example just to showcase, the better mesmers have way more complicated combos, but that's their trick.

 

The combos.

 

In the above situation, if you CC the phantasm, it will not fire off it's spell, and there goes a ton of the mesmer's burst. Another way to beat it is to leave the area entirely as the Mesmer begins their combo, because once they start, they can't exactly stop, at least not without big consequences. Chrono suffers the most from this IMO.

 

So first trick, disrupt their combos, or make them waste their combos.

 

Second trick is Mesmers have a ton of ACTIVE defense and sustain.

 

Example again:

Warrior's healing signet is passive. It heals them, always, whenever it's on. That's it.

Mesmer heal signet is active, it heals only when they summon a clone, so they have to do something to get it to work.

 

This means Mesmers, and thieves somewhat too, are like rabbits. Extremely hard to catch, but once you do catch them, they can go down super quick. See below of a Mesmer who isn't paying attention:

 

This is the major reason for discrepancy of veterans vs new Mesmers, because the more you know about every other class, the better you will perform both on and against Mesmer, and it is a very stark difference.

 

So while a Mesmer has more impactful defense, in fact all Mesmers get access to the strongest defensive spell in the game, distortion, (which is aslo instant cast lmfao) their defense is limited by their cooldowns, so essentially, the longer a fight lasts, the worse off it becomes for the Mesmer until their cooldowns come back up.

Again this is general, as Virtu kinda breaks this Mesmer rule somewhat since they get a bit more passive and active sustain because they do not have clones, which leads to the last real trick imo:

 

 

The Mesmer vs the Clones

 

Super simple, the real Mesmer will have unique buffs on them, like food, signets, etc. Idk of an exact list but you will know what I mean. Clones and phantasms can only get boons/conditions, not unique buffs.

Lastly, the downed Mesmer ALWAYS has the death/skull symbol above their head, the clones do not. So that is how you can tell them apart once you down one.

 

 

TL;DR

1. Anticipate and bait out their combos/disrupt their combos or their phantasms with CC

2. Be aware that Mesmer has major active defenses, which means they have to be on and paying attention. Newer Mesmers will feel super easy to kill while Veteran ones will feel almost impossible to.

3. A Mesmer is only as good as how they use their clones, combos, and positioning. Outside of Virtu, any good Mesmer will try to hide themselves within their clones. Learn to pick them out quickly and stomp on them fast, because it honestly doesn't take much.

 

 

 

IMO Mesmer struggles greatly against these classes:

Rev, Thief, Ranger, Guardian

 

IMO Mesmer performs well against these classes:

Necro, Warrior, Engi

 

Ele is kinda like Mesmer Lite, but with it's own stuff so it kinda becomes a real mind game to see which person baits out the other's defenses first. That's usually how it goes, whoever acts first, tends to lose unless they really set up a nice ambush/burst combo. Idk if you've ever seen a real high level thief vs thief match, but it becomes like a staring contest lol.

 

Finally, again this is general advice, like for instance, All EoD specs are still over performing, so you will have an easier time against everyone if you pick one of those elite specs, your mileage will vary.

I just wanted to give a quick breakdown of core Mesmer stuff. Hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Mell.4873]

@Waffles.5632amazing breakdown and universal agree with everything you said.

I will just emphasis the baiting. This is how high level pvp works with all light armor classes, you bait let's say a Necromancer Lich form only to line of sight them. 

This is why it is so important to duo que with Mesmers. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Junkpile.7439]

I have played core mesmer probably 2k hours and my clones haven't never been alive more than second. You shatter and stomp enemy after that. If enemy doesn't die you stealth and flee.🤦‍♂️

[Jitters.9401]

12 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Virtu leans into range dps/burst + sustain

My virtuoso build I like to keep in melee distance as much as possible just cause I have aggressive tendencies...

 

[Waffles.5632]

14 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

@Waffles.5632amazing breakdown and universal agree with everything you said.

I will just emphasis the baiting. This is how high level pvp works with all light armor classes, you bait let's say a Necromancer Lich form only to line of sight them. 

This is why it is so important to duo que with Mesmers. 

Ty! Spot on with necro lich too. I have baited that out before and literally just blinked away out of LoS, causing him to waste it, and that ended up turning the team fight around.

This is why it's hard to explain sometimes, because it's not like blink directly counters lich, but rather, the way it was used is how it countered lich.

Also funny you say duo queue because while I solo queue 99% of the time, 2v2 is my fav season and where I think Mesmer shines best in pvp, they are great +1's to have IMO.

 

2 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

My virtuoso build I like to keep in melee distance as much as possible just cause I have aggressive tendencies...

 

 I still catch myself running up to people in melee range as I use my auto attack on greatsword LOL. The blood lust is real I feel that. 😆

[Daniel Handler.4816]

On 2/15/2020 at 8:58 PM, Anput.4620 said:

 

Just play around it, easy.

I mean he's running like marauders with his back turned, standing still. He knows the Mesmer is playing this build. And he has blinding powder and shadow step off cooldown.

You could do the same video in the same matchup with the Mesmer standing still and not using blink/distortion when the thief pops out of stealth to burst them.

I'm not saying it is easy. But both players have the tools to play around this.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Mik.3401]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:39 PM, Svarty.8019 said:

I find that I just blow my dodges at the start and then die in an explosion of clones. I tried playing mesmer before with this combo; Blink to the enemy, GS2, GS4, Clone (or whatever it's called), and then F1, but I never do anything like the damage enemy mesmers do to me. I have heard some people say that macro/multi-button mouse is required but I think that may just be exaggeration.

Also, I'm not very quick at pressing buttons. Am I supposed to just die? Is that the game design?

You need to press buttons quickly for one-shot Mesmer obviously, otherwise there is no point. GS4 is an opener. Also make sure to invest literally everything in offense - that’s the way to survive

[captrowdy.9561]

I’ve only been playing for a year and half. Most time spent in wvw and I barely get killed by Mesmers. I just ignore the clones burst them and they blink away. I’ve also tried to play Mesmer….I definitely respect the good mesmers out there. 

[Mik.3401]

People are confused about one-shot Mesmer having to be fully offense based. So you could be the people running the inspi/dom/espec abominations etc. I guess. Trash me all you want but it’s just a silly place