mirage 1 dodge roll????serious

[kounabi.4352]

1 dodge roll!!!!!if the problem and the hate was for this 3 skillselusive mindinfinity horizondeceptive evasionthat trigger when mesmer dodge then do something about those traits dont remove 1 dodge from mirage..... add the nerf as a part of the trait, no make it permant.

[Eugchriss.2046]

you re 3 weeks late. Check the forum for similar topics.

[Lost Elegy.9276]

Awww, a mesmer is mad that their infinite invulnerability chain was nerfed. Poor baby.

[Halikus.1406]

Here comes the first of the day. Let the threads begin!!!!!!!!!Btw... anyone got a drink? This will be a long day

[Stand The Wall.6987]

pretty sure trade offs are done by the people that made the class, classes traditionally being balanced for pve. I can't think of any other reason why the trade offs are so all over the place.

[kounabi.4352]

well i was believe that they where not gonna add it, but i was wrong.im mad not for inv but i want my clone to infinity more. they kill phanstasms ,they kill dmg on clone death ,why dont remove dodge from mirage and give him a double jump in the air.

[Shaogin.2679]

@kounabi.4352 said:well i was believe that they where not gonna add it, but i was wrong.im mad not for inv but i want my clone to infinity more. they kill phanstasms ,they kill dmg on clone death ,why dont remove dodge from mirage and give him a double jump in the air.

What gave you the idea they were not going to implement the change? All of their communication thus far has been stating that it was coming.

[Moradorin.6217]

The game on its death bed anyway. I am mostly dissapointed that Anet cannot ever admit they make mistakes and would rather, literally, kill off the player base instead. I mean look at chrono. How has that worked out for everyone?? How many people did we lose from the regular player base over that alone? Then what about Druid. and on it goes, who is next? Not sure I care anymore....

R.I.P - Guild Wars 2, died 2/25/2020

[storm.3120]

@Lost Elegy.9276 said:Awww, a mesmer is mad that their infinite invulnerability chain was nerfed. Poor baby.So, according to you having 2 evades equals to have infinite invulnerability chain, even quadriplefacepalm wont be enough here

[Moradorin.6217]

I know someone will post blah blah blah, play another class. Well I have done that many times over the last 8 years. In the end I get attached to a specific toon or two and dont want to stop playing them. So this idea, although not without merit, really doesnt address the overall issue at all. Furthermore, I know allot of serious players end up feeling this way because what is the point of an MMO if not to develop your favorite toon. Well this literally can remove the benefit of everything someone works toward, thereby, negating any sense of value gained from said investment.

This is exactly the kind of thing that has caused them to have a 25% drop in profits in one quarter. I dont expect the trend to change at all at this rate.

[Moradorin.6217]

BTW, I used to actually BUY gems like every month with real $$. I stopped last year, and I have no interest in spending another dime on gw2 as things stand. its been about 9mo now since I stopped.

[ellesee.8297]

delete mesmers

[Alin.2468]

@Moradorin.6217 said:BTW, I used to actually BUY gems like every month with real $$. I stopped last year, and I have no interest in spending another dime on gw2 as things stand. its been about 9mo now since I stopped.

I stopped buying gems in 2016, when they decided to completely remove TeamQ. I am happy for my decision, but sad for PvP promoting loneliness.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I thought I'd be petty about this but I'm a little sobered to see how this is going for the mirage mains. Hopefully there is still an avenue for competitive builds that gets dug up in a month or so.

[storm.3120]

@ellesee.8297 said:delete mesmersAnd make another class \o/

[Galeskyring.9617]

There were far more constructive ways to nerf excessive mirage dodging then ousting 1 dodge from the 2 base dodges.

Instead they could have:

1: introduce an ICD of 5-8 seconds too Deceptive Evasion (pvp/wvw) this would draw in dodge = shatter spam to reasonable levels.2: Reduce condition damage somewhat to address explosive damage (when it's not instantly cleanse at least.)3: increase the CD of staff 2 Phase retreat from from 10 to 15, disrupting the hard to catch cadence many had.

If they are dead set on 1 dodge then they should:

1: increase select skill's damage values as a fair trade off too survival lost from the reduced dodge count.2: Add a select-able trait which enhances Stamina regenerated by Vigor (As several other professions have.)3: Restore Elusive mind's stun break effect to compensate for the diminished dodge count.

Reducing a profession's ability to dodge below the standerd count isn't a balance or a nerf it's a hard removal from competitive environments and casual play entirely where concerned. Which in this case is pvp and wvw.

[Moradorin.6217]

@Galeskyring.9617 said:There were far more constructive ways to nerf excessive mirage dodging then ousting 1 dodge from the 2 base dodges.

Instead they could have:

1: introduce an ICD of 5-8 seconds too Deceptive Evasion (pvp/wvw) this would draw in dodge = shatter spam to reasonable levels.2: Reduce condition damage somewhat to address explosive damage (when it's not instantly cleanse at least.)3: increase the CD of staff 2 Phase retreat from from 10 to 15, disrupting the hard to catch cadence many had.

If they are dead set on 1 dodge then they should:

1: increase select skill's damage values as a fair trade off too survival lost from the reduced dodge count.2: Add a select-able trait which enhances Stamina regenerated by Vigor (As several other professions have.)3: Restore Elusive mind's stun break effect to compensate for the diminished dodge count.

Reducing a profession's ability to dodge below the standerd count isn't a balance or a nerf it's a hard removal from competitive environments and casual play entirely where concerned. Which in this case is pvp and wvw.

Even if it have some playable avenue w 1 dodge that is somehow a gain over just playing core or another class it will still never be a very good choice for anyone who also plays it allot in pve since you will still get 2 dodge ambush based play in pve that has totally different timing and play due to half a dodge bar. So Mirage seems pointless to even bother with at this point for anyone who actually likes playing mirage and does pve, wvw, pvp modes. Its play core, chrono or choose a new class.

[Curunen.8729]

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Galeskyring.9617 said:There were far more constructive ways to nerf excessive mirage dodging then ousting 1 dodge from the 2 base dodges.

Instead they could have:

1: introduce an ICD of 5-8 seconds too Deceptive Evasion (pvp/wvw) this would draw in dodge = shatter spam to reasonable levels.2: Reduce condition damage somewhat to address explosive damage (when it's not instantly cleanse at least.)3: increase the CD of staff 2 Phase retreat from from 10 to 15, disrupting the hard to catch cadence many had.

If they are dead set on 1 dodge then they should:

1: increase select skill's damage values as a fair trade off too survival lost from the reduced dodge count.2: Add a select-able trait which enhances Stamina regenerated by Vigor (As several other professions have.)3: Restore Elusive mind's stun break effect to compensate for the diminished dodge count.

Reducing a profession's ability to dodge below the standerd count isn't a balance or a nerf it's a hard removal from competitive environments and casual play entirely where concerned. Which in this case is pvp and wvw.

Even if it have some playable avenue w 1 dodge that is somehow a gain over just playing core or another class it will still never be a very good choice for anyone who also plays it allot in pve since you will still get 2 dodge ambush based play

in pve that has totally different timing and play due to half a dodge bar.

So Mirage seems pointless to even bother with at this point for anyone who actually likes playing mirage and does pve, wvw, pvp modes. Its play core, chrono or choose a new class.

This is my main issue with the change.

Such a significant change should be global to all game modes, and then balanced around it - because of the significant difference in play between having 2 or 1 dodge bar.

I can't think of another example of such a jarring spec difference between pve and pvp/wvw.

[Galeskyring.9617]

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Galeskyring.9617 said:There were far more constructive ways to nerf excessive mirage dodging then ousting 1 dodge from the 2 base dodges.

Instead they could have:

1: introduce an ICD of 5-8 seconds too Deceptive Evasion (pvp/wvw) this would draw in dodge = shatter spam to reasonable levels.2: Reduce condition damage somewhat to address explosive damage (when it's not instantly cleanse at least.)3: increase the CD of staff 2 Phase retreat from from 10 to 15, disrupting the hard to catch cadence many had.

If they are dead set on 1 dodge then they should:

1: increase select skill's damage values as a fair trade off too survival lost from the reduced dodge count.2: Add a select-able trait which enhances Stamina regenerated by Vigor (As several other professions have.)3: Restore Elusive mind's stun break effect to compensate for the diminished dodge count.

Reducing a profession's ability to dodge below the standerd count isn't a balance or a nerf it's a hard removal from competitive environments and casual play entirely where concerned. Which in this case is pvp and wvw.

Even if it have some playable avenue w 1 dodge that is somehow a gain over just playing core or another class it will still never be a very good choice for anyone who also plays it allot in pve since you will still get 2 dodge ambush based play in pve that has totally different timing and play due to half a dodge bar. So Mirage seems pointless to even bother with at this point for anyone who actually likes playing mirage and does pve, wvw, pvp modes. Its play core, chrono or choose a new class.

Considering how little power Chrono holds in pvp matches it is in a very bad place as is, for pvp mesmer's it's sadly more or less core or nothing. Chrono struggles with condi clear and stun-breaks alongside not being a condition damage spec but a tank/power designated elite spec. The former of which isn't too great without the cleanse and stun breaks while the later isn't much of a threat for similar reasons.

[Kondor.2904]

@Curunen.8729 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Galeskyring.9617 said:There were far more constructive ways to nerf excessive mirage dodging then ousting 1 dodge from the 2 base dodges.

Instead they could have:

1: introduce an ICD of 5-8 seconds too Deceptive Evasion (pvp/wvw) this would draw in dodge = shatter spam to reasonable levels.2: Reduce condition damage somewhat to address explosive damage (when it's not instantly cleanse at least.)3: increase the CD of staff 2 Phase retreat from from 10 to 15, disrupting the hard to catch cadence many had.

If they are dead set on 1 dodge then they should:

1: increase select skill's damage values as a fair trade off too survival lost from the reduced dodge count.2: Add a select-able trait which enhances Stamina regenerated by Vigor (As several other professions have.)3: Restore Elusive mind's stun break effect to compensate for the diminished dodge count.

Reducing a profession's ability to dodge below the standerd count isn't a balance or a nerf it's a hard removal from competitive environments and casual play entirely where concerned. Which in this case is pvp and wvw.

Even if it have some playable avenue w 1 dodge that is somehow a gain over just playing core or another class it will still never be a very good choice for anyone who also plays it allot in pve since you will still get 2 dodge ambush based play

in pve that has totally different timing and play due to half a dodge bar.

So Mirage seems pointless to even bother with at this point for anyone who actually likes playing mirage and does pve, wvw, pvp modes. Its play core, chrono or choose a new class.

This is my main issue with the change.

Such a significant change should be global to all game modes, and then balanced around it - because of the significant difference in play between having 2 or 1 dodge bar.

I can't think of another example of such a jarring spec difference between pve and pvp/wvw.

This. They specifically stated that they were trying to avoid major differences in class functionality among different gamemodes. However, this change directly contradicts that mentality, since it does not only affect the evade uptime, but several trait interactions and generally alters the way mirage uses its kit. If you want to cripple the spec, at least equally cripple it everywhere.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@kounabi.4352 said:1 dodge roll!!!!!if the problem and the hate was for this 3 skillselusive mindinfinity horizondeceptive evasionthat trigger when mesmer dodge then do something about those traits dont remove 1 dodge from mirage..... add the nerf as a part of the trait, no make it permant.

Mirage cloak itself is the problem, those traits just made it worse. Being able to evade while performing other actions is insanely op in this game. 1 dodge might end up being a poor band-aid fix, but something needed to be done, and the pvp devs didnt have many options since they could only really change skill numbers and coefficients.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

all cuz they won't rethink dodge while stunned. sad.

[Galeskyring.9617]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"kounabi.4352" said:1 dodge roll!!!!!if the problem and the hate was for this 3 skillselusive mindinfinity horizondeceptive evasionthat trigger when mesmer dodge then do something about those traits dont remove 1 dodge from mirage..... add the nerf as a part of the trait, no make it permant.

Mirage cloak itself is the problem, those traits just made it worse. Being able to evade while performing other actions is insanely op in this game. 1 dodge might end up being a poor band-aid fix, but something needed to be done, and the pvp devs didnt have many options since they could only really change skill numbers and coefficients.

The idea that the pvp dev's didn't have options is entirely false. They have a number of times through the years both added and removed internal cool down's to traits, which is what they could and should have done to problem element's rather then removing a dodge from the profession.

Ammo didn't exist until more recent years, and yet it was added to skills when implemented too ability's and traits that had been around since launch and heart of thorn's. Exhaust likewise was created and added to "balance" some skills in recent years by subsequently nerfing some/all of the stamina regen for a set time after it was applied.

[storm.3120]

@Galeskyring.9617 said:There were far more constructive ways to nerf excessive mirage dodging then ousting 1 dodge from the 2 base dodges.

Instead they could have:

1: introduce an ICD of 5-8 seconds too Deceptive Evasion (pvp/wvw) this would draw in dodge = shatter spam to reasonable levels.Shatter spam, lol. Shatters on condi mirage are optional/situational as its better to keep clones for IH.Aside from DE there is no way to produce enough clones because 1 phantasm on 20s/1 weapon skill on 12s is not enough to do anything meaningful.Dueling (DE) is mandatory for pretty much all builds like trickery for thieves. Lets make it even and delete trickery too and see if they are happy about it? (just na example)2: Reduce condition damage somewhat to address explosive damage (when it's not instantly cleanse at least.)You know, it require over 9000 IQ to remove damage from clones and make real ambush strong. After 20 years they would do it, who I'm kidding, never.3: increase the CD of staff 2 Phase retreat from from 10 to 15, disrupting the hard to catch cadence many had.Short range/no invul/no evade frames, why would ever this be 15s? Why wouldnt you just ask for self stun on its use for 10s? This should help everyone to kill them. Right?Aight, lets play your game - We all struggle to keep up with thief mobility and its hard to kill them with all their teleports and evades. Lets add 5s cd on each evade/teleport skill to help them die faster.If classes is being balanced by clueless people it would end up like a chronomancer.

[Tayga.3192]

@Lost Elegy.9276 said:Awww, a mesmer is mad that their infinite invulnerability chain was nerfed. Poor baby.

6 out of 8 classes outdodged mirage,

now it's 8/8 xD